SixerFan1976 Offseason Thread (Update Pg 73)

[freshie2]

Are you saying ET has outproduced Favors to date? Check their stats per 36 minutes...ET's improvement trajectory really needs to spike if he's going to keep up with Favors.

[Kobblehead]

No, I'm saying it's not safe to say he'll be a better player. It can still go either way. FYI, Evan Turner has had more 20 and 10 games than Derrick Favors so far despite not having an established role on the team.

[freshie2]

Yet, ET averaged more minutes per game than Favors??? My comments were based on watching the games, and I only referred to the per 36 minute stats based on your rebounding comment. For the positions they play, Favors looks much more the part than Turner at this point. If Turner is a 35+% 3 pt shooter this year, then we can talk, but he's just not athletic nor skilled enough at this point. Favors needs to develop his skill set as well, but he's a long/athletic big who has been productive in limited minutes.

[Sixerscan]

FYI, Evan Turner has had more 20 and 10 games than Derrick Favors so far despite not having an established role on the team.

well there's that

[Kobblehead]

It just goes to show that when Evan gets a bigger workload and more freedom to be the player he was that made him the #2 pick, he's a high impact starter capable of going for trips on any given night. Are we forgetting the little stretch of games in the middle of the season when Doug admitted his mistake (and then rescinded and lost Turner again).

[Sixerscan]

oh is that what happened?

or that fluky 5 game period where he was making jump shots ended (because he can't shoot) and teams remembered that they don't have to worry about him from further out than five feet (because he can't shoot)

blaming collins (who played him 32 minutes per game the last 41 games of the year) is so much more fun though.

[Do the Jrue]

The way I see it is we're either going to have to put out a world class defensive team (something like Jrue-Iggy-Wallace-JSmith-Okafor), join a couple superstars together or hope that whoever we draft in the next couple years turns into a superstar, we land a star in free agency and have great role players around them. Otherwise we're stuck in the middle of the pack.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

The same argument for Favors should be made about Turner and that is that he is playing at a loaded position. Favors has yet to get the full time minutes he needs to show his worth. The same thing was said about Turner and once he got his minutes he seemed to improve. Back to Favors I think once Al Jefferson is gone he will get his shot as the big man in Utah. The same goes for Turner if and when Iguodala is ever traded.

[EugeneBWhitaker]

The same argument for Favors should be made about Turner and that is that he is playing at a loaded position. Favors has yet to get the full time minutes he needs to show his worth. The same thing was said about Turner and once he got his minutes he seemed to improve. Back to Favors I think once Al Jefferson is gone he will get his shot as the big man in Utah. The same goes for Turner if and when Iguodala is ever traded.

Derrick Favors is younger than Evan Turner. That should not be overlooked. Evan Turner did not show much improvement in the important aspects of the game that are not determined by more minutes. He is a poor shooter, which is not something this team needs. He shoots more poorly than Andre Iguodala, and for years Andre Iguodala has been a terrible shooter.

Three years of college should make you more mature and ready for the NBA, and I believe this is something that is ignored by those who want to believe in the future of Evan Turner. His shot mechanics are awful, and that won't be improved by an absence of Andre Iguodala.

There seem to be those who are impressed by what Evan Turner did in the playoffs. Whomever is making the decisions for the sixers roster should probably find a GM who was impressed by Turner and trade him this off season honestly.

[76erStu]

Evan Turner averaged 11 ppg in two playoff series vs very, very good defensive teams. That is with absolutely no jump shot, and also with no plays being run for him. not to mention, he was TERRIFIC on the boards. And i don't think anyone on this board can disagree that he is a far better passer/creator than Holiday is.

Turner himself is only 23 years old. He is going to improve his jump shot. He is going to mature mentally as he gets older. Some people on this board look at the fact that he was a number 2 pick, and with that, give him unfair expectations. Guess what..Tyreke Evans, Mayo, Thabeet, Beasley were all top 5 picks in recent drafts too. I would take Evan over every single one of them.

In my eyes, he is a good player who is only going to get better. His basketball savvy is so evident. He does everything right except shoot. We can add shooters around him. He is a guy that you win with.

How quickly people forget his WARRIOR mentality to NOT BE DENIED in game 3 late vs. Chicago. Do you remember him driving to the bucket, relentlessly, getting his own rebound, getting fouled and hitting both shots? That is the mentality we need. I want him on my team.

[EugeneBWhitaker]

Turner himself is only 23 years old. He is going to improve his jump shot. He is going to mature mentally as he gets older. Some people on this board look at the fact that he was a number 2 pick, and with that, give him unfair expectations. Guess what..Tyreke Evans, Mayo, Thabeet, Beasley were all top 5 picks in recent drafts too. I would take Evan over every single one of them.

You speak with a certainty that you can not have. You look at the playoff games and you ignore the regular season games? It would seem to me that the fact that there are close to 150+ regular season games he could have played it are more telling than a few playoff series (in which both teams were missing key players). Evan Turner was reported to have worked on his jump shot between his first and second season. He has no jump shot. He did not improve. I see no evidence that another off season will make it better when it was his off season focus last year, and yet it did not improve. There is no visible evidence that anything you say is accurate.

As for the argument that you can put shooters around him, why did the sixers not just put shooters around Andre Iguodala then as he was(and is) quite good at everything else, and better than Evan Turner.

[Sixerscan]

And i don't think anyone on this board can disagree that he is a far better passer/creator than Holiday is.

Turner averaged 2.3 assists per game in the playoffs. He averaged 2.8 assists per game for the year. He had 2 more assists than turnovers for the entirety of the playoffs and had a 1.75:1 a/to during the year. Jrue has had a better than 2:1 A/TO ratio each of the last two years and was over 2.5/1 during the playoffs.

So now that I've used way too many dumb numbers to make my point, yes, I absolutely vehemently disagree. Turner is not a good creator for anyone but his own blocked forays to the rim.

[76erStu]

And i don't think anyone on this board can disagree that he is a far better passer/creator than Holiday is.

Turner averaged 2.3 assists per game in the playoffs. He averaged 2.8 assists per game for the year. He had 2 more assists than turnovers for the entirety of the playoffs and had a 1.75:1 a/to during the year. Jrue has had a better than 2:1 A/TO ratio each of the last two years and was over 2.5/1 during the playoffs. So yes, I absolutely vehemently disagree. Turner is not a good creator for anyone but his own blocked forays to the rim.

Evan Turner is without a doubt a more natural point guard than Jrue Holiday. That was my point. And yes, I will stand on my opinion that he is a better passer than Jrue.

It figures you would pull that 1 sentence from my reply, ignoring everything else I wrote. That is what you do on this board. Hate on Turner.

[Sixerscan]

How quickly people forget his WARRIOR mentality to NOT BE DENIED in game 3 late vs. Chicago. Do you remember him driving to the bucket, relentlessly, getting his own rebound, getting fouled and hitting both shots? That is the mentality we need. I want him on my team.

Big freaking deal. Cherry pick all you want. How about how he got outplayed by a guy on one leg in game 7 of the conference semis? How about Rondo destroying him at the end of that game? The guy shot under 45% in 10 of the 13 playoff games we were in. He was awful during the playoffs and anyone who says otherwise is living in a dream world.

[Sixerscan]

And i don't think anyone on this board can disagree that he is a far better passer/creator than Holiday is.

Turner averaged 2.3 assists per game in the playoffs. He averaged 2.8 assists per game for the year. He had 2 more assists than turnovers for the entirety of the playoffs and had a 1.75:1 a/to during the year. Jrue has had a better than 2:1 A/TO ratio each of the last two years and was over 2.5/1 during the playoffs. So yes, I absolutely vehemently disagree. Turner is not a good creator for anyone but his own blocked forays to the rim.

Evan Turner is without a doubt a more natural point guard than Jrue Holiday. That was my point. And yes, I will stand on my opinion that he is a better passer than Jrue.

It figures you would pull that 1 sentence from my reply, ignoring everything else I wrote. That is what you do on this board. Hate on Turner.

I responded to another part of your post above.

How the hell can someone:

A. Be a natural point guard.
B. Play 35 MPG and get 12 shots per game over a 13 game period (So he got plenty of opportunity)

then

C. Average 2.3 assists per game?

How does that make any sense to you? When has he ever been a natural point guard? Was it his junior year at Ohio State where he averaged 4.4 TOs per game? Natural point guards have A/TOs at least at 2.5/1. Turner has never come close to that at any level.

When Turner gets the ball more, he doesn't look to pass, he looks to shoot. That has been clear from both his time in the pros and his time in college.

[aHealthy3]

I'm a huge Turner supporter but let's be real if anyone's trying to say Cousins won't almost certainly have the better career. Cousins is arguably the 3rd best center in the league RIGHT NOW! And 2 years younger than Turner. Come on now

[freshie2]

I want to see ET succeed as much as the next guy, but to say he's a better creator, passer, PG than Jrue is simply nuts...he's a better rebounder than Jrue and they are probably even defenders, the rest of the scale tilts in Jrue's favor.

As I've stated, earlier today...if ET shoots 35% from 3 and 80% from the FT line, he has arrived, but at this point he's been very disappointing from the rookie league games to today. The Favors comparisons are really silly as well...if DC did want Favors and Thorn trumped him it was a huge mistake.

[76erStu]

How quickly people forget his WARRIOR mentality to NOT BE DENIED in game 3 late vs. Chicago. Do you remember him driving to the bucket, relentlessly, getting his own rebound, getting fouled and hitting both shots? That is the mentality we need. I want him on my team.

Big freaking deal. Cherry pick all you want. How about how he got outplayed by a guy on one leg in game 7 of the conference semis? How about Rondo destroying him at the end of that game? The guy shot under 45% in 10 of the 13 playoff games we were in. He was awful during the playoffs and anyone who says otherwise is living in a dream world.

Holiday shot under 45% in 7 games...and in 2 games, shot 46%. He shot 41% in the playoffs. Not much better than Turner.

With that said, I value Holiday more to this team, without a doubt. My point was I want Turner as my PG. I want Jrue as my 2, like many on this board.

Just pointing out that your stats, like your posts, are pretty lame. I enjoy reading other posters on this board. And I can say the same for the conglomerate of friends I have that observe, not post.

to your point on the assists...again, its worthless. meaningless. Turner doesn't have the ball in is hands like Jrue did. He often got it late in the shot clock. Your stats make absolutely no points.

[EugeneBWhitaker]

I'm a huge Turner supporter but let's be real if anyone's trying to say Cousins won't almost certainly have the better career. Cousins is arguably the 3rd best center in the league RIGHT NOW! And 2 years younger than Turner. Come on now

I would not say it is a certainty. I will agree that DeMarcus Cousins was probably the most talented player in his draft, purely on basketball talent (including John Wall) and upside. However, it does seem rather obvious that he has some maturity issues he needs to work on, and if he does mature he will end up being a beast, but until he puts forth full effort on both ends of the court game in and game out, he still has a long way to go to.

The ideal basketball player is Evan Turner's mental approach and DeMarcus Cousins' inbred ability.

To me though, the maturity level can be taught and learned, you can not improve upon the ability you were born with. You can refine it, the potential, but Turner does not have the potential at his position that Cousins has at his.

[freshie2]

Disagree...Turner's potential lies in hard work and developing range...if he gets that, he can become a very nice SG in the league.

Second 'point'...he's not a PG...not sure what people are watching that say this...he can dribble, but that doesn't make him a PG.