Where is Nerlens?

Kobblehead · Post #1301 » by **Kobblehead** » Thu Dec 8, 2016 9:09 pm

He's an excellent addition because he actually has a skillset.

Post Jrue, we've trotted out skill-less guards like Michael Carter-Williams, Larry Drew, Tim Frazier, Ish Smith, Tony Wroten, Phil Pressey, and T.J. McConnell.

Sergio may have defensive issues, but he distributes at a high level and hits threes at a good rate. He's a welcome addition as far as I'm concerned.

Post #1302 » by **tk76** » Thu Dec 8, 2016 9:13 pm

If the Sixers had Ish instead of Sergio right now... then Jah would look better. Noel would soon look better. Embiid would look more explosive (getting dunks and oops) and the team would be in a much better position in terms of trading Jah/Noel or both.

TeamHigh · Post #1303 » by **TeamHigh** » Thu Dec 8, 2016 9:14 pm

tk76 wrote:I feel similarly about TJ and Sergio. Both of them are exposed on the Sixers. They belong coming off the bench of a better team. A team that can hide their weaknesses in a way that the Sixers can't. That would still be the case if Simmons and Bayless were healthy. They would be getting less minutes, but still hurting their teammates when on the floor.

I realize that long term the Sixers need a PG who fits with Simmons. But they currently need more an Ish-like PG who can break down a defense in a way that creates good looks for their bigs. Nerlens and Jah will continue to look terrible when paired with TJ. And I doubt they will look any better with Sergio- as he can't break down his man and defenses just go way under on the P&R and dare him to shoot. Partly this is measure of how limited Noel and Jah are without a jumper. But they both did great with Ish, and it is not as if he is anything so special... more that that all of the other PG's the last 3 seasons have been absolute garbage.

There's no hiding their weaknesses other than not giving them many minutes on the floor.

It's not like Sergio is surrounded by bad defenders either. For much of his time on the floor he gets to play with Covington, Henderson, and Embiid. That's a group of very solid defenders.

He's just a turnstile and no amount of 'hiding' will work.

Hinkie failed to get a starting caliber point guard (even a low tier starting caliber point guard), and Colangelo seems to have repeated the same mistake.

Post #1304 » by **tk76** » Thu Dec 8, 2016 9:18 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Sergio may have defensive issues, but he distributes at a high level and hits threes at a good rate. He's a welcome addition as far as I'm concerned.

If Sergio's improved shooting gets to the point where defenses have to respect him... then he will be a welcome addition. That has yet to be the case- so teams collapse off of him which negates his passing and ability to run an offense. How many impact passes has Sergio made within the half court offense?

Kobblehead · Post #1305 » by **Kobblehead** » Thu Dec 8, 2016 9:23 pm

tk76 wrote:If the Sixers had Ish instead of Sergio right now... then Jah would look better. Noel would soon look better. Embiid would look more explosive (getting dunks and oops) and the team would be in a much better position in terms of trading Jah/Noel or both.

And our team spacing would suffer and he would be rendered useless when Simmons hits the court within the next 1-2 months.

It's hard to get value for Noel because of his off-court issues, injuries and contract situation.
It's hard to get value for Okafor because he sucks and can't rebound or protect the rim.

Ish Smith generating easy buckets for them with penetrating and dumping would not change those things.

Post #1306 » by **tk76** » Thu Dec 8, 2016 9:28 pm

Simmons would not be paired with Ish. He would be paired with Bayless... or Henderson... or Roco. Just like Sergio was brought in to be back-up PG, the same would be the case with Ish. the main difference is that Ish made Nerlens and Jah look like valuable offensive players.

You should not marginalize the difference in both Nerlens and Jah's production and effeciency when paired with Ish vs other (junk) PG's. I'm not so much complementing Ish as much as pointing out that non-shooting centers need PG's who can get past their man and draw the defense in order to look good.

Kobblehead · Post #1307 » by **Kobblehead** » Thu Dec 8, 2016 9:32 pm

He pumped their numbers. I wouldn't say he made them look valuable on the offensive end. They're both bad offensive players with no range, with or without Ish.

Negrodamus · Post #1308 » by **Negrodamus** » Thu Dec 8, 2016 9:38 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote:Noel is going to be useless without a real NBA PG on the roster.

Weird, why would a point guards affect how Nerlens plays on defense (the side of the court he's dominant on)?

Post #1309 » by **tk76** » Thu Dec 8, 2016 9:45 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:Noel is going to be useless without a real NBA PG on the roster.

Weird, why would a point guards affect how Nerlens plays on defense (the side of the court he's dominant on)?

Other teams don't want to trade for a defensive player who looks horrible on offense. But they very much want that exact guy when they wee him getting 10ppg on 60% shooting and killing teams that ignore him on offense.

SelfishPlayer · Post #1310 » by **SelfishPlayer** » Thu Dec 8, 2016 10:25 pm

Everyone knows advanced stats but the basics of on court play seem to be in question. It should be easy to see that Noel will stink with Sergio and TJ on the court. Didn't he play his best with Ish? Imagine how much better he would look with CP3 or Nash. We will never get to see that. I don't like Noel, but he would probably look like an All Star if he played with John Wall. It's a shame that his career to date and ultimate potential will be based upon playing with the garbage at PG the Sixers have surrounded him with. But not by me because I can project. I know what Noel can do in the NBA with the proper NBA players surrounding him just like i knew that Okafor would be better at PF with a true center like Embiid on the floor.

Negrodamus · Post #1311 » by **Negrodamus** » Thu Dec 8, 2016 10:28 pm

tk76 wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:Noel is going to be useless without a real NBA PG on the roster.

Weird, why would a point guards affect how Nerlens plays on defense (the side of the court he's dominant on)?

Other teams don't want to trade for a defensive player who looks horrible on offense. But they very much want that exact guy when they wee him getting 10ppg on 60% shooting and killing teams that ignore him on offense.

I'm just baffled by calling Nerlens "useless" when he shines on defense. He needs no one else to be effective on that end. In fact, the team needs players like him more than he needs other teammates to be effective. The same cannot be said about Okafor.

SelfishPlayer · Post #1312 » by **SelfishPlayer** » Thu Dec 8, 2016 10:44 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
tk76 wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
Weird, why would a point guards affect how Nerlens plays on defense (the side of the court he's dominant on)?

Other teams don't want to trade for a defensive player who looks horrible on offense. But they very much want that exact guy when they wee him getting 10ppg on 60% shooting and killing teams that ignore him on offense.

I'm just baffled by calling Nerlens "useless" when he shines on defense. He needs no one else to be effective on that end. In fact, the team needs players like him more than he needs other teammates to be effective. The same cannot be said about Okafor.

Too many self checks on the floor when you roll Noel, TJ/Sergio out there. You can't be serious about playing NBA defense when TJ and Sergio are out there. So you are horrendous on both ends of the court with Noel, TJ/Sergio out there. Noel doesn't anchor an NBA defense. :lol:

Kobblehead · Post #1313 » by **Kobblehead** » Thu Dec 8, 2016 11:08 pm

T.J. is an excellent defender...

Mik317 · Post #1314 » by **Mik317** » Thu Dec 8, 2016 11:23 pm

Kobblehead wrote:T.J. is an excellent defender...

is he?

Mind you a lot of things go wrong due to our switch all the time defense but idk..

hookshot199 · Post #1315 » by **hookshot199** » Thu Dec 8, 2016 11:24 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Sergio has been an excellent addition. T.J. would be playing an 8 minute role if Bayless was healthy. Colangelo didn't neglect the PG spot. It was just a bad shake of circumstance.

He was an excellent addition contrary to what the naysayers say. He and Bayless were signed to be stopgaps and to help mentor Simmons. They were within budget. By signing them, BC didn't have to enter the arms race to overpay some second-tier starting point guard. You can't predict injuries. And we've just hit the first quarter mark of the season, and we haven't had all three centers available on a single night. BC didn't make a mistake here. It was, as you wrote, a 'bad shake of circumstance'.

As Mark Cuban recently said (my paraphrase) you don't make rash moves. We've got too much invested in our young bigs.

Coaching is a problem. But even Brown gets a pass for the first 20 games.

Negrodamus · Post #1316 » by **Negrodamus** » Thu Dec 8, 2016 11:38 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
tk76 wrote:
Other teams don't want to trade for a defensive player who looks horrible on offense. But they very much want that exact guy when they wee him getting 10ppg on 60% shooting and killing teams that ignore him on offense.

I'm just baffled by calling Nerlens "useless" when he shines on defense. He needs no one else to be effective on that end. In fact, the team needs players like him more than he needs other teammates to be effective. The same cannot be said about Okafor.

Too many self checks on the floor when you roll Noel, TJ/Sergio out there. You can't be serious about playing NBA defense when TJ and Sergio are out there. So you are horrendous on both ends of the court with Noel, TJ/Sergio out there. Noel doesn't anchor an NBA defense.

Yea, he does. But I guess that's where we disagree.

You can say a lot of things about Noel: off the court issues, injuries, terrible on offense... But you can't say he isn't a great defender.

Kobblehead · Post #1317 » by **Kobblehead** » Thu Dec 8, 2016 11:43 pm

Mik317 wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:T.J. is an excellent defender...

is he?

Mind you a lot of things go wrong due to our switch all the time defense but idk..

I think so. His defensive IQ is off the charts. He pretty much always has sound positioning. He also generates a lot of takeaways by stripping ball handlers and playing the passing lanes.

Also, made the all-conference defensive team in 3 of his 4 collegiate seasons so he has a strong pedigree on the defensive end. If we know one thing, Sean Miller produces guys that can D it up.

Ericb5 · Post #1318 » by **Ericb5** » Fri Dec 9, 2016 12:58 am

Negrodamus wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:Noel is going to be useless without a real NBA PG on the roster.

Weird, why would a point guards affect how Nerlens plays on defense (the side of the court he's dominant on)?

It happened last year. When Noel wasn't getting spoonfed baskets he was disengaged on the defensive end. He got better on both sides of the court once we got Ish.

I think Sergio will be good for him offensively, but ultimately it doesn't even matter because I think Noel is a dead man walking. As soon as he is healthy I think he is going to be traded.

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Post #1319 » by **tk76** » Fri Dec 9, 2016 1:21 am

Kobblehead wrote:T.J. is an excellent defender...

Hustle does not equate to excellence. Otherwise, Saric would be an error defender.

Kobblehead · Post #1320 » by **Kobblehead** » Fri Dec 9, 2016 1:38 am

tk76 wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:T.J. is an excellent defender...

Hustle does not equate to excellence. Otherwise, Saric would be an error defender.

Why is T.J. being a good defender seeming like a foreign or outlandish concept?

Even his defensive RPM has him right in the same tier as guys like C.J. Watson, Kyle Lowry, Patrick Beverley and Mike Conley. All known defenders. He's been a defender his whole life. Refer back to his collegiate accolades.

T.J. being labeled as a hustler is disrespectful. Jakarrbage Sampson hustles. T.J. actually has great instincts, IQ, and hands.