2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2

[TheAntiTrump]

I don't hate this draft. It is very good, even beyond 3. I say there are 8-10 possible Elite players in this draft. But mostly smaller players. But what is good is the depth. I really see NO difference talent wise and upside wise form the 12th pick to the 50th pick ( Dead serious ) In fact, I would not be surprised at all if a lot of teams trade a future 1st rounder for a certain player who is there in the 40-50 range. I even think there could be as many as 10 undrafted players who can not only make a team, but be a All-Star level player within 2 years.

[Sixerscan]

If you don't like this drafts 4-10, then you're probably not going to like any draft's 4-10. This draft is as strong through 10 as any draft I have seen.

of course, the best prospects don't always make the best players.

[jaxsontend]

Monk reminds me of JJ Reddick with great athleticism .


76ers need Fultz badly. He has the size of a elite 2 guard and the offensive package to match. Wade/Harden 6'4-5 with 6'10/11 wingspan.


A Dennis Smith and Monk haul in the draft would be erry similar to Paul and Redick backcourt.



76ers have some shooters Roco, Luwawu, Stauskus and eventually Korkamaz. We need scorers badly Dennis Smith, Fultz , Tatum, Monk are the guys.

Fultz is nothing like Dwayne Wade or James Harden other than being 6'4. I don't know how this absurd comp started becoming standard.

.

Agreed. Fultz is nothing near the off ball offensive piece of oldman dwayne wade, nor does he have early wayde or harden's strength or explosiveness. he is built in a spidery/lanky way like cj mcollum, whereas those guys are in the big butt/big hipped mold of pg/sg (chris paul, lowry, andre miller, wayde, harden), which allows them to post guards and have an elbow game off their hip, as well as get into the lane, hold their pivot foots and create.

i do think fultz can be a superior Mcollum. he has the skills to be a lower usage player- he can shoot off catch and dribble with mutliple moves and counters to get his shot which he goes into quickly , he doesnt massage the rock as much as a Tatum type iso scorer, with a similar vocabulary of moves. he can create as well and has the length to be a decent defender.. that being said im not sure he has the elite core/hip strength that allows a guard to maintain a good center of gravity both finishing with contact and as a defender fighting through picks. it will be interesting to see what situation he ends up and and what his usage/role will be. can see him on the sixers but doenst excite me.

as for the big hipped guard prototype that i really like, ill repeat that i think Josh Hart can be this. maybe he lacks the quickness at the nba level to be effective, but i really think he will be a rich man's evan turner which is a good roleplayer SG imo.

Frankly ive given up on getting ball, fultz, tatum, jackson ( and im fine with passing on tatum.. i like jackson a lot but i think he is redundant with Covington so maybe if covington is part of a trade, i'd like jackson). However, when I look at this team even without Simmons and Embiid, i think we have a very nice core and should be adding pieces by fit at this point.

There is a lot of arguing about Ball on this thread but not enough discussion of our actual roster. What do you guys envision the team looks like next season and in 2019?

First I should say i am not pencilling Embiid into our long term plans, I do not believe he will have a career sadly if you look at the historical comps. best case scenario imo is he is as healthy as andrew bogut longterm which is not good.

Heres what id like to see next year:

1.Tj / monk
2. Hart/ TLC/stauskus
3. Roco/Anderson
4. Saric/Simmons
5: Holmes / okafor / 2017 2nd round pick?

Starting lineup would be
PG: Simmons
SG: monk
SF: Roco
PF: Saric
C: Embiid as a dream.

I think basically we need to keep our identity as a gritty, long, switchy defensive team .. with tj/hart/tlc/roco/anderson we have the ability to defend all sorts of guards and play all sorts of flexible lineups even if simmons/monk struggle with containing top point guards..(not to mention the rim protection of holmes/embiid and yes saric (as a bruiser). Simmons can ideally defends 4s that are too fast for saric.. basically all our defensive bases would be covered with this line up and part of that comes from starting Covington, he is so valuable.

If our rivals are going to be bucks, celtics, lakers, wolves we will be well built defensively to handle all of them.

the thing about monk (as a ray allen, jj reddick, kyle korver etc) player is he will be exhausting to guard for the other team , slippery, and a release valve/counterpunch for our offense with the offense running through simmons/saric/embiid. Does that make sense? The downside of our starting lineup is basically that though it will be long and great defensively, our guys will struggle to beat players off the dribble and maybe even get tired on the other end. monk fixes this by not beating players off the dribble but off the screen/with constant motion for catch and shoot opportunities (he doesnt play this way that much now but he has the ability, kentucky's o is garbage).... imagine all the picks you can run with simmons/roco/saric/embiid with monk and not stauskas being the corner shooter.

forgoing getting the lakers pick and assuming we pick 6th, id still try to take monk and hart (maybe can make a trade to get a later first round pick for okafor our second) or really any two of the top 10 guards (except DSJ/Fox/Frank N) with our first and top 2nd.
Do people here like Frank Mason at all? I think there will be a number of undervalued seniors in this draft class.

Then after this upcoming year where we can evaluate Simmons as PG (and in general), and Embiid's health, we draft a 5 and a stretch 4.

If we did all that I could see our team being ready for contention at which point we start tinkering based around our rivals/how we lose in playoff series.

I dont have faith in Colangelo to do this, but i think we can just build this whole thing out through the draft in the next two years even if we dont get the lakers pick and even if embiid never returns, assuming simmons can play.

[jaxsontend]

I don't hate this draft. It is very good, even beyond 3. I say there are 8-10 possible Elite players in this draft. But mostly smaller players. But what is good is the depth. I really see NO difference talent wise and upside wise form the 12th pick to the 50th pick ( Dead serious ) In fact, I would not be surprised at all if a lot of teams trade a future 1st rounder for a certain player who is there in the 40-50 range. I even think there could be as many as 10 undrafted players who can not only make a team, but be a All-Star level player within 2 years.

i agree. this is the best draft i think i have ever seen as far as potential productive nba talent (if not generational superstars).

[Mik317]

after 10 is where it seems to get tricky. there is a bit of a drop off into tons of prospects bunched together. Someone will find a gem in there but there will be tons of dudes that in a few years you go "he went where?"

Which is why staying in the top 8 is ideal.

[LloydFree]

I don't hate this draft. It is very good, even beyond 3. I say there are 8-10 possible Elite players in this draft. But mostly smaller players. But what is good is the depth. I really see NO difference talent wise and upside wise form the 12th pick to the 50th pick ( Dead serious ) In fact, I would not be surprised at all if a lot of teams trade a future 1st rounder for a certain player who is there in the 40-50 range. I even think there could be as many as 10 undrafted players who can not only make a team, but be a All-Star level player within 2 years.

i agree. this is the best draft i think i have ever seen as far as potential productive nba talent (if not generational superstars).

This is far from the best draft I've seen... then again I'm old so...

Who are all of these generational superstars you see? I'm not seeing it. I see a couple players who could become stars and a couple more that could be very good starters. There are guys ranked in the top 10 of this draft that have nothing more than good 6th man upside.

[LloydFree]

Monk reminds me of JJ Reddick with great athleticism .


76ers need Fultz badly. He has the size of a elite 2 guard and the offensive package to match. Wade/Harden 6'4-5 with 6'10/11 wingspan.


A Dennis Smith and Monk haul in the draft would be erry similar to Paul and Redick backcourt.



76ers have some shooters Roco, Luwawu, Stauskus and eventually Korkamaz. We need scorers badly Dennis Smith, Fultz , Tatum, Monk are the guys.

Fultz is nothing like Dwayne Wade or James Harden other than being 6'4. I don't know how this absurd comp started becoming standard.

.

Agreed. Fultz is nothing near the off ball offensive piece of oldman dwayne wade, nor does he have early wayde or harden's strength or explosiveness. he is built in a spidery/lanky way like cj mcollum, whereas those guys are in the big butt/big hipped mold of pg/sg (chris paul, lowry, andre miller, wayde, harden), which allows them to post guards and have an elbow game off their hip, as well as get into the lane, hold their pivot foots and create.

i do think fultz can be a superior Mcollum. he has the skills to be a lower usage player- he can shoot off catch and dribble with mutliple moves and counters to get his shot which he goes into quickly , he doesnt massage the rock as much as a Tatum type iso scorer, with a similar vocabulary of moves. he can create as well and has the length to be a decent defender.. that being said im not sure he has the elite core/hip strength that allows a guard to maintain a good center of gravity both finishing with contact and as a defender fighting through picks. it will be interesting to see what situation he ends up and and what his usage/role will be. can see him on the sixers but doenst excite me...

I agree with the superior CJ McCollum comp for Fultz. I have him as something similar to McCollum on the high end or OJ Mayo on the low end.

[Unbreakable99]

I don't hate this draft. It is very good, even beyond 3. I say there are 8-10 possible Elite players in this draft. But mostly smaller players. But what is good is the depth. I really see NO difference talent wise and upside wise form the 12th pick to the 50th pick ( Dead serious ) In fact, I would not be surprised at all if a lot of teams trade a future 1st rounder for a certain player who is there in the 40-50 range. I even think there could be as many as 10 undrafted players who can not only make a team, but be a All-Star level player within 2 years.

i agree. this is the best draft i think i have ever seen as far as potential productive nba talent (if not generational superstars).

This is far from the best draft I've seen... then again I'm old so...

Who are all of these generational superstars you see? I'm not seeing it. I see a couple players who could become stars and a couple more that could be very good starters. There are guys ranked in the top 10 of this draft that have nothing more than good 6th man upside.

Agreed. I'd take the 2003 draft over this one and I'm not only saying it because I have the benefit of hindsight. There is no LeBron in this draft. I was high on Carmelo. I have to admit I didn't think Wade would be as good as he became but I was a fan. He is exceeded my expectations. Bosh was good.

The 1984 draft had Hakeem. He alone had more potential than anyone in this draft.

I'm sure I could think of other drafts. If there was a Simmons and Towns or Davis in this draft I might reconsider. This is a deep draft but I don't see any potential all time great players.

[Arsenal]

i agree. this is the best draft i think i have ever seen as far as potential productive nba talent (if not generational superstars).

This is far from the best draft I've seen... then again I'm old so...

Who are all of these generational superstars you see? I'm not seeing it. I see a couple players who could become stars and a couple more that could be very good starters. There are guys ranked in the top 10 of this draft that have nothing more than good 6th man upside.

Agreed. I'd take the 2003 draft over this one and I'm not only saying it because I have the benefit of hindsight. There is no LeBron in this draft. I was high on Carmelo. I have to admit I didn't think Wade would be as good as he became but I was a fan. He is exceeded my expectations. Bosh was good.

The 1983 draft had Hakeem. He alone had more potential than anyone in this draft.

I'm sure I could think of other drafts. If there was a Simmons and Towns or Davis in this draft I might reconsider. This is a deep draft but I don't see any potential all time great players.

It's not even close with 2003. LeBron was a WAY better prospect than anyone in 2017. Carmelo was at least at the Fultz/Ball level, and probably higher than them also. Bosh and Wade were probably at the Fultz/Ball/Jackson level. Darko ended up busting, but he was on the level with Bosh and Wade as a prospect also.

1996 and 1984 were also WAY better than this year, probably the 2 best drafts of all time.

Here's a ranking of top draft classes:

1) 1984
2) 1996
3) 2003
4) 1987
5) 1985
6) 2007
7) 1998
8) 2009

This year's draft class is no higher than #7 on the list (above 1998) and perhaps below that.

[TheAntiTrump]

i agree. this is the best draft i think i have ever seen as far as potential productive nba talent (if not generational superstars).

This is far from the best draft I've seen... then again I'm old so...

Who are all of these generational superstars you see? I'm not seeing it. I see a couple players who could become stars and a couple more that could be very good starters. There are guys ranked in the top 10 of this draft that have nothing more than good 6th man upside.

Agreed. I'd take the 2003 draft over this one and I'm not only saying it because I have the benefit of hindsight. There is no LeBron in this draft. I was high on Carmelo. I have to admit I didn't think Wade would be as good as he became but I was a fan. He is exceeded my expectations. Bosh was good.

The 1984 draft had Hakeem. He alone had more potential than anyone in this draft.

I'm sure I could think of other drafts. If there was a Simmons and Towns or Davis in this draft I might reconsider. This is a deep draft but I don't see any potential all time great players.

In the last maybe 40 years, there have been maybe 7 Transcendent NBA players ever taken...Lebron, Magic, Bird, MJ, Shaq, Olajuwan...and yes...Ben Simmons. He hasn't played yet, but his talents are Transcendent. That does not mean that the players here are not very good and elite level like talents. I think there are 7 to 8 players in this draft who have the skills sets of a Iverson, Chris Paul, Westbrook, John Wall, ect. And there are a bunch more who in say the 2013 draft would be top-10 players. And they will still be available in the 20-40 range in this draft.

[phiphan]

In the last maybe 40 years, there have been maybe 7 Transcendent NBA players ever taken...Lebron, Magic, Bird, MJ, Shaq, Olajuwan...and yes...Ben Simmons. He hasn't played yet, but his talents are Transcendent. That does not mean that the players here are not very good and elite level like talents. I think there are 7 to 8 players in this draft who have the skills sets of a Iverson, Chris Paul, Westbrook, John Wall, ect. And there are a bunch more who in say the 2013 draft would be top-10 players. And they will still be available in the 20-40 range in this draft.

Gonna be hard to walk this back

[TheAntiTrump]

In the last maybe 40 years, there have been maybe 7 Transcendent NBA players ever taken...Lebron, Magic, Bird, MJ, Shaq, Olajuwan...and yes...Ben Simmons. He hasn't played yet, but his talents are Transcendent. That does not mean that the players here are not very good and elite level like talents. I think there are 7 to 8 players in this draft who have the skills sets of a Iverson, Chris Paul, Westbrook, John Wall, ect. And there are a bunch more who in say the 2013 draft would be top-10 players. And they will still be available in the 20-40 range in this draft.

Gonna be hard to walk this back

Why would I ? It's my opinion. I mean besides the names I mentioned...name any other Transcendent Talents ? Sorry but Iverson is a no. So are all the rest. Great players yes. Hall of famers yes. But not like the 7 I mentioned. They are all a huge step above them.

[Mik317]

considering last years draft currently looks really bad, 2015 pretty much only having Towns and few others live up to the hype, the fabled 2014 draft hasn't exactly been amazing either (in part due to injuries to be fair), I can see why people are a bit hype on this one.

I am unsure of the star level talent in this draft but for the first time in a while I personally don't see anyone being an outright bust from the projected top guys. Bust in draft position wise of course but I think most of these dudes will have productive careers at worst. Of course I have been so damn wrong I was secretly apart of the Kings FO so what do I know.

BUT even with a complete negative view on dudes I see it as this.
Fultz will at the very least be one of those guys who can get his own shot and score some buckets.
Ball with his janky ass shot and all, had great vision and will stick around even if he is "just" a backup PG with his size and said vision.
Jackson defends too well to be a complete bust, his off the court issues is what would derail his career if anything.
Issac will always have his length and that is a much desired tool, he add even a semblance of a consistant jumper and he's around for a while.
Smith has some injury concerns (although ACLs are like nothing now for some reason lol) and attitude problems and is the most likely to flame out but his scoring tools and the fact that teams can always use a PG, will have him stick for a nice period of time (he could also Johnny Flynn it up and be in China real quick).
Fox can't shoot for ****, but Coach Cal's PGs with potential tend to have long careers (Harrison Twins even making the league shocked me personally). Then again Teague.
Tatum does too many things to not hang around as a Marvin Williams type for a decade.
Monk having a Ben Gordan career arc (hopefully without the ego leading to him basically getting blackballed lol) would not surprise me at the least.

Now of course all matter of things can go wrong and not translate...that is what makes this hard (or fun for use whose jobs aren't on the line lol). But as of RIGHT now, I am very confident in many of the guys being productive NBA players if they remain healthy.

However situation is also key. Guys going places where they HAVE to be the man right away could kill careers and I could see that (like Monk going somewhere without a PG and some idiots forcing him to be the PG or Jackson going to a place and having to be the go to scorer ASAP)

[Sixerscan]

2015 is shaping up to be a very good draft. People's expectations are too high...

2003 is considered an awesome draft. If you go by win shares the 6th and 7th best guys are Korver and Kirk Hinrich. This idea that a draft has to have 10 perennial all stars or something to be a good draft doesn't make any sense.

[phiphan]

In the last maybe 40 years, there have been maybe 7 Transcendent NBA players ever taken...Lebron, Magic, Bird, MJ, Shaq, Olajuwan...and yes...Ben Simmons. He hasn't played yet, but his talents are Transcendent. That does not mean that the players here are not very good and elite level like talents. I think there are 7 to 8 players in this draft who have the skills sets of a Iverson, Chris Paul, Westbrook, John Wall, ect. And there are a bunch more who in say the 2013 draft would be top-10 players. And they will still be available in the 20-40 range in this draft.

Gonna be hard to walk this back

Why would I ? It's my opinion. I mean besides the names I mentioned...name any other Transcendent Talents ? Sorry but Iverson is a no. So are all the rest. Great players yes. Hall of famers yes. But not like the 7 I mentioned. They are all a huge step above them.

My issue was not you naming "transcendent talents," it's the fact that you think there are 7 to 8 guys in this draft on the level of Iverson/Westbrook/Wall/Paul. That's bananas.

[Arsenal]

Here's something to actually be concerned about re: LaVar Ball:

http://nesn.com/2017/03/ball-brothers-high-school-coach-details-how-hard-lavar-ball-is-to-work-with/

Hopefully this sort of interference/disruption would be minimized if we get Lonzo. Luckily there are 3K miles between Philly and LA. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see LaVar trash talking the coach or the other players in the media. Not one bit.

[the_process]

I'm going to start to temper my expectations for the pick. I'm going to assume we will pick 6 or 7 and hope DSJ is still there and just take him and hope for the best.

Getting stuck with nothing but Dennis Smith in this draft would be just about the worst possible outcome.

Well just prepare yourself by the time we pick for the hosts during the draft say the best available players remaining are DSJ Fox Markkenen Bridges lol. It's a very likely scenario. Who else would you want at 6 if Ball Fultz Jackson Tatum Issac are off the board? Maybe Monk could be available but that's not something that gets me that excited.

I'd trade down a few spots and then take my chances with Ntilikina.

[Arsenal]

Getting stuck with nothing but Dennis Smith in this draft would be just about the worst possible outcome.

Well just prepare yourself by the time we pick for the hosts during the draft say the best available players remaining are DSJ Fox Markkenen Bridges lol. It's a very likely scenario. Who else would you want at 6 if Ball Fultz Jackson Tatum Issac are off the board? Maybe Monk could be available but that's not something that gets me that excited.

I'd trade down a few spots and then take my chances with Ntilikina.

I might take the shot on Ntilikina at #5 overall. He might have more upside than anyone after Ball/Fultz/Jackson/Tatum. Plus his defense should give him a high floor. Even if he doesn't develop at all, he'll be a good 3&D PG.

[LloydFree]

considering last years draft currently looks really bad, 2015 pretty much only having Towns and few others live up to the hype, the fabled 2014 draft hasn't exactly been amazing either (in part due to injuries to be fair), I can see why people are a bit hype on this one.

I am unsure of the star level talent in this draft but for the first time in a while I personally don't see anyone being an outright bust from the projected top guys. Bust in draft position wise of course but I think most of these dudes will have productive careers at worst. Of course I have been so damn wrong I was secretly apart of the Kings FO so what do I know...

There is potential busts in every draft. I can easily see Markkenen being an outright bust. I like Isaac a lot, but he could easily be too weak to play for a couple of years and get permanently glued to the bench like Vonleh. If Fultz goes #1 and is no more than an OJ Mayo level scoring combo guard, he will be considered a bust.

[LloydFree]

This is far from the best draft I've seen... then again I'm old so...

Who are all of these generational superstars you see? I'm not seeing it. I see a couple players who could become stars and a couple more that could be very good starters. There are guys ranked in the top 10 of this draft that have nothing more than good 6th man upside.

Agreed. I'd take the 2003 draft over this one and I'm not only saying it because I have the benefit of hindsight. There is no LeBron in this draft. I was high on Carmelo. I have to admit I didn't think Wade would be as good as he became but I was a fan. He is exceeded my expectations. Bosh was good.

The 1983 draft had Hakeem. He alone had more potential than anyone in this draft.

I'm sure I could think of other drafts. If there was a Simmons and Towns or Davis in this draft I might reconsider. This is a deep draft but I don't see any potential all time great players.

It's not even close with 2003. LeBron was a WAY better prospect than anyone in 2017. Carmelo was at least at the Fultz/Ball level, and probably higher than them also. Bosh and Wade were probably at the Fultz/Ball/Jackson level. Darko ended up busting, but he was on the level with Bosh and Wade as a prospect also.

1996 and 1984 were also WAY better than this year, probably the 2 best drafts of all time.

Here's a ranking of top draft classes:

1) 1984
2) 1996
3) 2003
4) 1987
5) 1985
6) 2007
7) 1998
8) 2009

This year's draft class is no higher than #7 on the list (above 1998) and perhaps below that.

'84, '60, '96, '03, '98 and '70 Those are the gold standards.

'08, '07 and '85 were pretty good.