Sixers officially acquire #1 pick per Woj and Aldridge. Will get Fultz

[76thBearCub]

We can still trade the Lakers pick 6-30 protected can't we? Obviously the value would take a dump if it didn't convey, but we could trade it couldn't we?

[76thBearCub]

Or I guess you should call it top 5 protected. I want to be greedy and keep the chances at #1 for ourselves.

[Ben]

We can still trade the Lakers pick 6-30 protected can't we? Obviously the value would take a dump if it didn't convey, but we could trade it couldn't we?

Eh, I don't know. Even if it can be done, wouldn't the value decrease so much that it'd just be better to keep it? The chance of it going to Philly or Boston would bring the price down to pennies on the dollar.

There would have to be a backup scenario-- as in, "in exchange for what Team B gives the Sixers, Team B receives the Lakers pick if it's 6-30 or ELSE Team B receives Asset(s) X." Team B would have to be willing to do the trade in question for Asset X. And the Sixers would have to value Asset X almost as much as they value a possible mid to late lottery pick. Who fits the bill? Not Okafor, I assume.

[LongLiveHinkie]

It can't be done. Picks can't be traded twice. It can only be traded after the lottery next season, should it not convey to Boston.

[76thBearCub]

Eh, I don't know. Even if it can be done, wouldn't the value decrease so much that it'd just be better to keep it? The chance of it going to Philly or Boston would bring the price down to pennies on the dollar.

There would have to be a backup scenario-- as in, "in exchange for what Team B gives the Sixers, Team B receives the Lakers pick if it's 6-30 or ELSE Team B receives Asset(s) X." Team B would have to be willing to do the trade in question for Asset X. What kind of return can one expect in such a scenario?

My line of thinking is, it's the All Star break, and the Lakers are merely the 5th or 8th worst team in the league with no incentive to tank the rest of the way. I know the pick has limited value at that point.

It doesn't decrease any more then any other top 5 protected pick that wouldn't convey. Anybody who wanted to go for it would have to weigh the possibilities on their own and decide.

[76thBearCub]

It can't be done. Picks can't be traded twice. It can only be traded after the lottery next season, should it not convey to Boston.

Wasn't Sacramento's pick bottom 11-30 to the Bulls but we still had a pick swap with them? I think it is legal within the CBA.

[the_process]

Or I guess you should call it top 5 protected. I want to be greedy and keep the chances at #1 for ourselves.

It can be traded top 5 protected. And a Laker top 5 protected pick is pretty damn valuable considering they are virtually guaranteed to have a top ten pick next year.

[the_process]

It can't be done. Picks can't be traded twice. It can only be traded after the lottery next season, should it not convey to Boston.

It can be traded as long as the part of the pick that could possibly be conveyed to Boston is protected.

[Ben]

Eh, I don't know. Even if it can be done, wouldn't the value decrease so much that it'd just be better to keep it? The chance of it going to Philly or Boston would bring the price down to pennies on the dollar.

There would have to be a backup scenario-- as in, "in exchange for what Team B gives the Sixers, Team B receives the Lakers pick if it's 6-30 or ELSE Team B receives Asset(s) X." Team B would have to be willing to do the trade in question for Asset X. What kind of return can one expect in such a scenario?

My line of thinking is, it's the All Star break, and the Lakers are merely the 5th or 8th worst team in the league with no incentive to tank the rest of the way. I know the pick has limited value at that point.

It doesn't decrease any more then any other top 5 protected pick that wouldn't convey. Anybody who wanted to go for it would have to weigh the possibilities on their own and decide.

Fair enough. Say more, then. In what kind of pre-All-Star-Break scenario would you envision the Sixers wanting to make a trade that's so imperative it can't wait until the pick actually DOES convey, i.e. the season's close? Sixers are competing for the EC title and want to beef up the chances? Or trading for a soon-to-be UFA in order to acquire his Bird rights? (That's still a thing, isn't it? I used to be a CBA whiz but I'm rusty now.) What do you have in mind?

[Ericb5]

For what? We just gave away a future lottery pick to move up and take the 3rd best player in this draft.

Dude I like reading a lot of your posts. Please don't do this all summer though

No. No need. What's done is done. As long as Embiid is healthy, the team will be successful and all will be good. Perfect situation for Fultz to reach his potential too.

Glad to hear you say that because I thought Fultz was 3rd too, but I'm thrilled to have him, and definitely think he gets a fit bonus with us.

As long as Embiid is healthy you won't be able to hold this team back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LongLiveHinkie]

It can't be done. Picks can't be traded twice. It can only be traded after the lottery next season, should it not convey to Boston.

It can be traded as long as the part of the pick that could possibly be conveyed to Boston is protected.

I believe it's against NBA rules to trade any pick that has already been traded even if the protections fit in another deal.

[HartfordWhalers]

We can still trade the Lakers pick 6-30 protected can't we? Obviously the value would take a dump if it didn't convey, but we could trade it couldn't we?

Eh, I don't know. Even if it can be done, wouldn't the value decrease so much that it'd just be better to keep it? The chance of it going to Philly or Boston would bring the price down to pennies on the dollar.

There would have to be a backup scenario-- as in, "in exchange for what Team B gives the Sixers, Team B receives the Lakers pick if it's 6-30 or ELSE Team B receives Asset(s) X." Team B would have to be willing to do the trade in question for Asset X. And the Sixers would have to value Asset X almost as much as they value a possible mid to late lottery pick. Who fits the bill? Not Okafor, I assume.

It can't be done. Picks can't be traded twice. It can only be traded after the lottery next season, should it not convey to Boston.

Picks can be traded repeatedly. The only way they cannot is if a range is to small too count for a trade (you need top 55 protection not top 59), or if it would violate Stepien. The second happens a lot because in a traditional team with only their own pick:

I.e. Clippers owe lotto protected pick in '18 and '19, if not 2 2nds. If Clippers traded '18 1-14 range, they would violate Stepien -- {1-14 in '18 and then 15-30 in '19 means two future years with no picks}


Sixers in 2014 traded a 2nd rounder 4 times... and kept the part that had the pick:

56-60
51-55
46-50
41-45
and the team maintained 31-40

https://web.archive.org/web/20140312160333/http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

2014 second round draft pick to Washington
Philadelphia's 2014 2nd round pick to Washington protected for selections 31-45 and 51-60 (if this pick falls within either of its protected ranges and is therefore not conveyed, then Philadelphia's obligation to Washington will be extinguished) [Philadelphia-Washington, 2/20/2014]

2014 second round draft pick to Oklahoma City
Philadelphia's 2014 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City (via Memphis) protected for selections 31-50 and 56-60 (if this pick falls within either of its protected ranges and is therefore not conveyed, then Philadelphia's obligation to Oklahoma City will be extinguished) [Memphis-Philadelphia, 8/22/2013 and then Boston-Memphis-Oklahoma City, 1/7/2014]

2014 second round draft pick to Houston
Philadelphia's 2014 2nd round pick to Houston protected for selections 31-55 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Philadelphia's obligation to Houston will be extinguished) [Houston-Philadelphia, 7/13/2013]

2014 second round draft pick to L.A. Clippers
Philadelphia's 2014 2nd round pick to the L.A. Clippers protected for selections 31-40 and 46-60 (if this pick falls within either of its protected ranges and is therefore not conveyed, then Philadelphia's obligation to the L.A. Clippers will be extinguished) [L.A. Clippers-Philadelphia, 2/20/2014]

[76thBearCub]

Fair enough. Say more, then. In what kind of pre-All-Star-Break scenario would you envision the Sixers wanting to make a trade that's so imperative it can't wait until the pick actually DOES convey, i.e. the season's close? Sixers are competing for the EC title and want to beef up the chances? Or trading for a soon-to-be UFA in order to acquire his Bird rights? (That's still a thing, isn't it? I used to be a CBA whiz but I'm rusty now.) What do you have in mind?

I wish I had a more romantic type of answer, but honestly I was just trying to get it clarified that it would be a possibility if something opportunistic came up.

[Sixerscan]

how? Simmons and Fultz both need the ball to thrive and Embiid had a 36% usg rate as a rookie. There's only one basketball.

Fultz can play on or off the ball.. He thrived off the ball... Embiid's usage will go down now that he doesn't need to make so many plays...

I think he could be okay off the ball, but he's not a knockdown shooter in the catch and shoot nor is he anything special moving without the ball.

Citing a 19 year old point guard's catch and shoot shooting percentage as evidence that he doesn't project as someone that can play off the ball is a waste. Fultz can shoot, he should be able to figure out how to shoot off of someone passing it to him, especially when that person passing him the ball is Ben Simmons in a pro offense and not some Washington scrub in a college offense that was so bad the coach got fired. It may take a year or two. That's ok.

The fact that people have to get this granular in their criticisms is a pretty good sign I guess.

[Ericb5]

Fultz can play on or off the ball.. He thrived off the ball... Embiid's usage will go down now that he doesn't need to make so many plays...

I think he could be okay off the ball, but he's not a knockdown shooter in the catch and shoot nor is he anything special moving without the ball.

Citing a 19 year old point guard's catch and shoot shooting percentage as evidence that he doesn't project as someone that can play off the ball is a waste. Fultz can shoot, he should be able to figure out how to shoot off of someone passing it to him, especially when that person passing him the ball is Ben Simmons in a pro offense and not some Washington scrub in a college offense that was so bad the coach got fired. It may take a year or two. That's ok.

The fact that people have to get this granular in their criticisms is a pretty good sign I guess.

Right.

He clearly is a gifted shooter. Let him work on his game, and play off of Embiid, Simmons, and Saric, and he will be terrific on offense at least.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Negrodamus]

Fultz can play on or off the ball.. He thrived off the ball... Embiid's usage will go down now that he doesn't need to make so many plays...

I think he could be okay off the ball, but he's not a knockdown shooter in the catch and shoot nor is he anything special moving without the ball.

Citing a 19 year old point guard's catch and shoot shooting percentage as evidence that he doesn't project as someone that can play off the ball is a waste. Fultz can shoot, he should be able to figure out how to shoot off of someone passing it to him, especially when that person passing him the ball is Ben Simmons in a pro offense and not some Washington scrub in a college offense that was so bad the coach got fired. It may take a year or two. That's ok.

The fact that people have to get this granular in their criticisms is a pretty good sign I guess.

I actually thought he was pretty good off the ball at UW all things considered. His shot looks great sometimes, but there is an inconsistency to his form at times. Strangely, he looks more in control with a hand in the face. His FT% causes some pause with me, but his form is definitely there. He can be a knockdown shooter in the NBA with some work from a shooting coach. Luckily for us, it seems like he's a gym rat.

[PhillySixers22]

Fultz can play on or off the ball.. He thrived off the ball... Embiid's usage will go down now that he doesn't need to make so many plays...

I think he could be okay off the ball, but he's not a knockdown shooter in the catch and shoot nor is he anything special moving without the ball.

Citing a 19 year old point guard's catch and shoot shooting percentage as evidence that he doesn't project as someone that can play off the ball is a waste. Fultz can shoot, he should be able to figure out how to shoot off of someone passing it to him, especially when that person passing him the ball is Ben Simmons in a pro offense and not some Washington scrub in a college offense that was so bad the coach got fired. It may take a year or two. That's ok.

The fact that people have to get this granular in their criticisms is a pretty good sign I guess.

Here lies the biggest issue in projecting prospects, especially in the NBA where the top ones are 18-19 year old kids, work ethic, desire and mentality. It's impossible to know as a fan just what goes on in these kids heads. Fultz absolutely looks the part of a future star. But what happens if he struggles his rookie year? Will it motivate him and drive him to improve or will he lose confidence and his growth stagnates? Will he handle coaching criticism in a way that helps him improve as a player or will it discourage him and hurt development? Obviously these are simplistic examples but I think they properly express the point I'm getting at. This aspect is so hard to predict and is usually the difference between ending up with Derrick Rose and Michael Beasley, both elite prospects whose career paths couldn't have gone any differently.

[Unbreakable99]

I'm just very nervous about Fultz. I'm in a wait and see mode with him. If he doesn't impress in Summer League that will make me even more nervous. I just don't see why so many think he's head and shoulders better than the rest of the class. I just don't see it. I don't. I don't think he's the best prospect. I just want to be so wrong on him. His gait is weird. He moves a little funny. He doesn't have quick burst or acceleration. The one thing I do love about him is his dedication. He seems very dedicated to improving his game. To go from not being a highly touted recruit as a sophomore in High School to being the top pick in the draft shows hard work.

He has a calm demeanor. I guess that can be viewed as good or bad. On the court I don't see that dog in him like I do with a guy like Josh Jackson. I hope he has a winning mentality on the court and can take over games. Oh another thing I like is his rapid growth from going from 5'9 to 6'4. Hopefully he grows another 2 inches. I just want him to be great.

[Sixerscan]

I think he could be okay off the ball, but he's not a knockdown shooter in the catch and shoot nor is he anything special moving without the ball.

Citing a 19 year old point guard's catch and shoot shooting percentage as evidence that he doesn't project as someone that can play off the ball is a waste. Fultz can shoot, he should be able to figure out how to shoot off of someone passing it to him, especially when that person passing him the ball is Ben Simmons in a pro offense and not some Washington scrub in a college offense that was so bad the coach got fired. It may take a year or two. That's ok.

The fact that people have to get this granular in their criticisms is a pretty good sign I guess.

Here lies the biggest issue in projecting prospects, especially in the NBA where the top ones are 18-19 year old kids, work ethic, desire and mentality. It's impossible to know as a fan just what goes on in these kids heads. Fultz absolutely looks the part of a future star. But what happens if he struggles his rookie year? Will it motivate him and drive him to improve or will he lose confidence and his growth stagnates? Will he handle coaching criticism in a way that helps him improve as a player or will it discourage him and hurt development? Obviously these are simplistic examples but I think they properly express the point I'm getting at. This aspect is so hard to predict and is usually the difference between ending up with Derrick Rose and Michael Beasley, both elite prospects whose career paths couldn't have gone any differently.

100%.

[LongLiveHinkie]

We can still trade the Lakers pick 6-30 protected can't we? Obviously the value would take a dump if it didn't convey, but we could trade it couldn't we?

Eh, I don't know. Even if it can be done, wouldn't the value decrease so much that it'd just be better to keep it? The chance of it going to Philly or Boston would bring the price down to pennies on the dollar.

There would have to be a backup scenario-- as in, "in exchange for what Team B gives the Sixers, Team B receives the Lakers pick if it's 6-30 or ELSE Team B receives Asset(s) X." Team B would have to be willing to do the trade in question for Asset X. And the Sixers would have to value Asset X almost as much as they value a possible mid to late lottery pick. Who fits the bill? Not Okafor, I assume.

It can't be done. Picks can't be traded twice. It can only be traded after the lottery next season, should it not convey to Boston.

Picks can be traded repeatedly. The only way they cannot is if a range is to small too count for a trade (you need top 55 protection not top 59), or if it would violate Stepien. The second happens a lot because in a traditional team with only their own pick:

I.e. Clippers owe lotto protected pick in '18 and '19, if not 2 2nds. If Clippers traded '18 1-14 range, they would violate Stepien -- {1-14 in '18 and then 15-30 in '19 means two future years with no picks}


Sixers in 2014 traded a 2nd rounder 4 times... and kept the part that had the pick:

56-60
51-55
46-50
41-45
and the team maintained 31-40

https://web.archive.org/web/20140312160333/http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

2014 second round draft pick to Washington
Philadelphia's 2014 2nd round pick to Washington protected for selections 31-45 and 51-60 (if this pick falls within either of its protected ranges and is therefore not conveyed, then Philadelphia's obligation to Washington will be extinguished) [Philadelphia-Washington, 2/20/2014]

2014 second round draft pick to Oklahoma City
Philadelphia's 2014 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City (via Memphis) protected for selections 31-50 and 56-60 (if this pick falls within either of its protected ranges and is therefore not conveyed, then Philadelphia's obligation to Oklahoma City will be extinguished) [Memphis-Philadelphia, 8/22/2013 and then Boston-Memphis-Oklahoma City, 1/7/2014]

2014 second round draft pick to Houston
Philadelphia's 2014 2nd round pick to Houston protected for selections 31-55 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Philadelphia's obligation to Houston will be extinguished) [Houston-Philadelphia, 7/13/2013]

2014 second round draft pick to L.A. Clippers
Philadelphia's 2014 2nd round pick to the L.A. Clippers protected for selections 31-40 and 46-60 (if this pick falls within either of its protected ranges and is therefore not conveyed, then Philadelphia's obligation to the L.A. Clippers will be extinguished) [L.A. Clippers-Philadelphia, 2/20/2014]

So right now we could trade the Lakers pick to another team that has the complete inverse protections as the one we traded to Boston? Guess I was wrong. I could have sworn the NBA had a rule against it, even though it makes sense to allow it.