Markelle Fultz Discussion III: For Fultz and going forward (see 2017 draft thread for trade discussion)

[rzzzzz]

Ainge was honest when he said he would take Taytum at one.

makes sense if Honest Danny was secretly in heavy discussions with Kyrie prior to the draft. otherwise, he's facing issues of having a Brinks Truck pull up to the Celtics loading dock to pay off an IT who he just beat into the ground. if he didn't have a secret arrangement nailed down, he's got to be unbelievably lucky, passing on a top pg prospect only to have a top young league star suddenly fall into his lap. (sort of reminiscent of the deals friendly old Larry O'Brien pulled for the Celtics back when, including the one that got them Danny.)

[agiaco]

Hopefully Ben can help bring Markelle along with the free throws. We'll have an amazing trio with Redick from the charity stripe in no time.

[JojoSlimbiid]

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More FT's

[Negrodamus]

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Free throw, despite the aforementioned slight Lonzo dip (which I can forgive), looks better than the mid range shots. I'm more at ease now. His game will likely be around the rim drawing fouls for the rest of this season.

[JojoSlimbiid]

Free throw, despite the aforementioned slight Lonzo dip (which I can forgive), looks better than the mid range shots. I'm more at ease now. His game will likely be around the rim drawing fouls for the rest of this season.

It looks like they have gotten rid of the heels off the ground fake propellant stuff that he use to do on his FT's back in Washington.

[agiaco]

Definitely looks smoother.

[Negrodamus]

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Last dissection of the day for me: it appears he's not jumping as high as he did at UW on his jump shots. I'm still thinking they will hammer home the shot in the offseason, but it does feel a little different. Not terribly concerned because everything I see there is workable.

But, once again, this is just a shoot around, so he could be taking it easy.

[Sixerscan]

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Last dissection of the day for me: it appears he's not jumping as high as he did at UW on his jump shots. I'm still thinking they will hammer home the shot in the offseason, but it does feel a little different. Not terribly concerned because everything I see there is workable.

But, once again, this is just a shoot around, so he could be taking it easy.

I think the lack of lift is intentional/temporary. They're still building up to him taking a full jump shot. He's still a few weeks away.

[XDevilBoiX]

I am still gonna wait and see what he does in the game and judge. Forget about shooting 3s, will he have confidence to take midrange jumpers(12-17ft). Will he drive to the basket and iniate contact or will he be scare because of his free throws.

[Ericb5]

Free throw form looks completely restored to me. The midrange jumpers shown above are basically set shots in that clip. He isn’t actually jumping in them. So I’ll be interested to see how he looks when he is jumping.

Overall looks good though.


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[gdog2004]

Well that was depressing to read... Really hope he can reach his potential...


Also, what do you think about his free throw form?

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The angle makes it tough, it's at least a lot smoother than what he showed in pre-season and regular season. He starts the ball from his waist instead of his set point immediately, so there's more fluidity to the shot. It looks like the set point is a bit closer to his head as well.

The bad part imo is the lower body, I said it above as well, but there's a common theme with the free throw motions of the Sixers players. The guys who had a revamped shooting motion (Simmons, TLC and Fultz) all have their toes point to the rim, and in the case of Simmons and Fultz no bending off the knees at all.
I can't think of a different reason than coaching philosophy of John Townsend, which is probably "minimize as many moving parts as possible". Something I completely disagree with, because the lower body can provide force and therefore reducing the tension and force needed by the arms.

One funny thing I'm noticing now, is that Fultz head is tilting backwards. I think his right eye is dominant and with the squared position of the lower body he has to tilt his head to get his eye properly aligned.
Naturally Fultz had a turn in his feet during his shooting motion, dating back from high school. At 0:18 you can see that he's squared up (just like Simmons), which might feel unnatural for him and causes additional tension in his shoulders.

I'm not a specialist, but I would love an explanation for this lower body part (since it's a common theme). I've asked Bodner in a different topic, hopefully one of the media members will ask clarification at some point.

I've spent a LOT of time shooting, just trying to improve my own shot and coaching a few others. I watched a lot of "the Swish Method" which Steve Nash and Steph Curry use and it definitely works. Standing at the free throw line with both feet forward is pretty awkward to do. No one shoots jumpers that way, why shoot free throws that way ? unless your doing it Rick Barry style it is fundamentally wrong.

[bryanwithawhy]

I thought Fultz was the third best player in the draft, but in the same tier with the first two, and therefore could/should have been the player that we would take first.

When the deal first started being reported I was initially terrified that we gave up too much, but once we learned that it was only one of our two extra lottery picks, I was relieved, and excited about the move.
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So, you got your 3rd favorite player when we had the third pick. We traded what will most likely be a top 5 pick to draft your worst case scenario had we STAYED at 3. And you are excited? I am not sure I follow.

[dkj5061]

I thought Fultz was the third best player in the draft, but in the same tier with the first two, and therefore could/should have been the player that we would take first.

When the deal first started being reported I was initially terrified that we gave up too much, but once we learned that it was only one of our two extra lottery picks, I was relieved, and excited about the move.
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So, you got your 3rd favorite player when we had the third pick. We traded what will most likely be a top 5 pick to draft your worst case scenario had we STAYED at 3. And you are excited? I am not sure I follow.

You can simultaneously think a player is the 3rd best in the draft but the 1st best for a specific team

[JojoSlimbiid]

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Yeah outside of the feet and jumping stuff I'm not seeing a difference. All of it is different from the UW stuff. The second portion of the clip is from before we even drafted him if you were curious.

[bryanwithawhy]

I thought Fultz was the third best player in the draft, but in the same tier with the first two, and therefore could/should have been the player that we would take first.

When the deal first started being reported I was initially terrified that we gave up too much, but once we learned that it was only one of our two extra lottery picks, I was relieved, and excited about the move.
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So, you got your 3rd favorite player when we had the third pick. We traded what will most likely be a top 5 pick to draft your worst case scenario had we STAYED at 3. And you are excited? I am not sure I follow.

You can simultaneously think a player is the 3rd best in the draft but the 1st best for a specific team

Yeah, but giving up what will most likely be a top 5 pick does not leave one excited.

[Ericb5]

I thought Fultz was the third best player in the draft, but in the same tier with the first two, and therefore could/should have been the player that we would take first.

When the deal first started being reported I was initially terrified that we gave up too much, but once we learned that it was only one of our two extra lottery picks, I was relieved, and excited about the move.
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So, you got your 3rd favorite player when we had the third pick. We traded what will most likely be a top 5 pick to draft your worst case scenario had we STAYED at 3. And you are excited? I am not sure I follow.

I don’t believe that we would have gotten Fultz at 3, and I had the top 3 all in the same tier. Probably would have selected Fultz first due to fit, even though I liked Jackson and Ball slightly better.

The price that we paid was high, and obviously I would rather have the pick we traded than not have it, but I’m on board with the move because I think it will have an effect on our two best players.

Ball and Jackson would have fit, but they aren’t what we need on the team. Fultz is what we need on the team imo.


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[Ericb5]

So, you got your 3rd favorite player when we had the third pick. We traded what will most likely be a top 5 pick to draft your worst case scenario had we STAYED at 3. And you are excited? I am not sure I follow.

You can simultaneously think a player is the 3rd best in the draft but the 1st best for a specific team

Yeah, but giving up what will most likely be a top 5 pick does not leave one excited.

I’m excited for Fultz. I wish we didn’t have to give up the pick, but it is done, and if Fultz is what we think he is, then it was worth it.

At this point I would rather give up the top 5 pick to the Celtics and then get a top 5 pick ourselves next year rather than get a later pick this year.




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[cksdayoff]

markelle fultz gonna be an 80-90% free throw shooter. looks like he learned some things from mahmoud abdul rouf

[cksdayoff]

lack of lift is better imo. mahmoud abdul rouf, ray allen, steph curry all have lack of lift on their jumpers. they generate all their power to shoot the ball from their lift, meaning before they get to their apex of their jump, the ball is already out of their shooting hand.

guys like westbrook will jump high and then get in the act of shooting the ball, meaning they're spending energy just to get up that high and then using additional energy to shoot the ball when they reach their apex.

if fultz has decided to shoot the ball more like curry and rouf, and not like westbrook, i believe this is a great change for the better.

[LloydFree]

Ainge was honest when he said he would take Taytum at one.

makes sense if Honest Danny was secretly in heavy discussions with Kyrie prior to the draft. otherwise, he's facing issues of having a Brinks Truck pull up to the Celtics loading dock to pay off an IT who he just beat into the ground. if he didn't have a secret arrangement nailed down, he's got to be unbelievably lucky, passing on a top pg prospect only to have a top young league star suddenly fall into his lap. (sort of reminiscent of the deals friendly old Larry O'Brien pulled for the Celtics back when, including the one that got them Danny.)

I don't believe Ainge had any intention of drafting Tatum #1. I also don't believe he ever wanted to select Fultz #1. He did exactly what he intended to do. Which is trade out of #1, to the 1st sucker who would bite. This year was a weak #1 compared to most drafts, and he knew he could get a player he liked at #3 or later without any drop off.