2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III

[OleSchool]

Lol, not sure why you just think VJs progression needs to be held up on this pedestal. It's a weird hill to die on. Tre Johnson also improved in the year. Also acting like Tre can't improve at all, is the same stuff that was said about Ace.

Least with Ace dude was a douche and wasn't interviewing well. There has been nothing but positivty about Tre Johnson.

You also didnt' address my point that as we toe the line between the past and future, VJ is not a good fit. This offensive star that many think he'll become won't be in the same timeline as Embiid and George, while Johnson could give you 15-17 ppg from the get go, with a lot of room to grow and potentially be a star.

And you really think NN is going to play a rook WHO DOESNT PLAY DEFENSE enough minutes to get 15-17 ppg???

Yes, McCain played when he's not a good defender. VJ is just going to help with spacing on this team. Also if **** hits the fan and Embiid/George are out, all the more chance for Tre to shine, while VJ likely has to take more lumps to develop.

Yes but not being a good defender is implying that he TRIED on D. Tre doesn't even do that

[Iverson Armband]

I am anti-trade; but let's say Brooklyn fears Utah or Washington scooping up Ace (I could see Ainge doing it). I think a trade structure for me would need to be:

Johnson
#8, #19, 2026 Nets 2nd, 2027 Philly 1st protections extended to 1-20 (currently 1-8)

Oubre/Drummond/Gordon
#3, #35

Call me crazy, but at 8, I'd go Coward and at 19 either Fleming or CMB (yeah, I think CMB falls). Johnson fills a starter's role so Coward and Fleming/CMB start on unit 2. Coward feels like Jalen Williams to me, flew up drafts boards and pre-draft interviews and workouts didn't slow Williams down at all. I know Kon/JK or Maluach are probably all there, but Coward feels like that guy that just hits.

I'd do that trade.
When I squint and listen to Coward speak, I have young MJ nostalgia. He's smart. He has the physical tools. He has the work ethic. I like his style. He sees the big picture.

His confidence doesn't come across as arrogance or entitlement, it feels genuinely earned with self awareness.

To hear the contrast to Ace Bailey’s version of confidence, jump to 28:07 where Cedric talks about taking a shot that he had confidence in taking that may or may not have technically been the best option, but he was confident.

@LEAGUEHIM has provided the chapter breakdown in the comments.

Watch on YouTube

;feature=shared

He'll be in the building draft night

Read on Twitter

He’s pretty impressive.

[mjkvol]

There are no lies about anything. One is a clear offensive star, the other is a do it all guy, who has shown some offensive chops, has a good set shot, and is a hyper athlete. The way this board talks about VJ he should go number 1 in the draft. Hell, he'll also be better than Flagg. If VJ is as good as you say, Morey wouldn't be trying to get the #2 pick. And Harper isn't a homerun pick either, not with his clunky ass jumper, and pedestrian athleticism. I just think people see what they want to see. For some reason a guy that doesn't try on defense means that they're not trying to get better which is BS. So yeah maybe Tre isn't good on defense, maybe he's not physically able to be as good, he knows where he's good and he's very good at it. I'll probably warm up to VJ, but I'd rather pick someone I can bet on being someone we really need, a great shooter. Maxey had a big dip this year, and McCain has already torn his menisicus. Tre is prototypical guard size, and is a lights out shooter with excellent shot making ability. I think that's much more a sure thing, with what he excels in, as opposed to betting on the theoretical improvement of VJ.

nope. This is the exact hyperbole I am calling out lol. Just because we aren't throwing around VJ Meltons and saying he is only a role player doesn't mean we don't think he is flawless or perfect either. Its funny that you say this and then go on to act like Tre is by using offensive star. You don't see the contradiction there lol? You are saying we are acting like VJ is perfect when you are literally handwaving Tre's flaws. Yes he is an insane shooter from all over, has great size for a guard but the reality is that he was awful on defense and didn't really bring much else to the table. That is concerning no? There are plenty of insane shooters than enter the league and that's no longer good enough. That is a potential outcome even if personally I think there may be some playmaking upside and the 6'10 wingspan SHOULD in theory at least be a problem in the passing lanes....but that CURRENTLY does not show up on tape or in the stats...so its equally possible that he just doesn't get much better there...whereas VJ's stats and tape do point to an improving jumper and more offensive upside as he improved on that front as the season went on. That doesn't mean he is a lock to continue and I do worry about his height and his handle is fine but not creation good yet either. my fear with VJ is that we take him and one of the other guys pop more BUT again the tape, the stats, and the factual seen improvement AS WELL as some future prognosis are why I also think he is the current best bet as a whole package and I feel like that is downplayed too easily.

as for Harper, he is elite at getting to the rim AND finishing..which is an actual special trait, built like a tank and is a good FT% so I don't worry about the shot much...plus he has been around the NBA his whole life...I think he is the real deal ;perfect fit next to our guards too and imo can guard 3s due to his girth. He is the actual pick for me but I think the Spurs feel the same way and Fox and Castle aren't good enough to stop that.

Lol, not sure why you just think VJs progression needs to be held up on this pedestal. It's a weird hill to die on. Tre Johnson also improved in the year. Also acting like Tre can't improve at all, is the same stuff that was said about Ace.

Least with Ace dude was a douche and wasn't interviewing well. There has been nothing but positivty about Tre Johnson.

You also didnt' address my point that as we toe the line between the past and future, VJ is not a good fit. This offensive star that many think he'll become won't be in the same timeline as Embiid and George, while Johnson could give you 15-17 ppg from the get go, with a lot of room to grow and potentially be a star.

I couldn't possibly be less concerned with the "Embiid-George timeline". If being able to step in and contribute from day one is even the slightest priority, then you might as well trade the pick for win-now pieces and just go ahead and doom us to the inevitable endless rebuild.

The only timeline that should be considered, if any, is the Maxey timeline. Any trades or picks should be with 2-3 years from now in mind, when we have hopefully cleared the aging dreck from the payroll and established a culture to build on. If Morey feels that Tre is that guy, fine, but the upside of VJ is to me far beyond that of Tre, who I just fear will max out as a great shooter who gets played off the floor in playoff situations.

[mjkvol]

When I squint and listen to Coward speak, I have young MJ nostalgia. He's smart. He has the physical tools. He has the work ethic. I like his style. He sees the big picture.

His confidence doesn't come across as arrogance or entitlement, it feels genuinely earned with self awareness.

To hear the contrast to Ace Bailey’s version of confidence, jump to 28:07 where Cedric talks about taking a shot that he had confidence in taking that may or may not have technically been the best option, but he was confident.

@LEAGUEHIM has provided the chapter breakdown in the comments.

Watch on YouTube

;feature=shared

He'll be in the building draft night

Read on Twitter

He’s pretty impressive.

I'd take Coward over Bailey at any point in the draft. One of the main reasons I want to trade back is for a shot at this kid with the WSH #18 or BKN #19 pick, but I could see someone grabbing him in the late part of the lottery at this point.

[MVP1992]

When I squint and listen to Coward speak, I have young MJ nostalgia. He's smart. He has the physical tools. He has the work ethic. I like his style. He sees the big picture.

His confidence doesn't come across as arrogance or entitlement, it feels genuinely earned with self awareness.

To hear the contrast to Ace Bailey’s version of confidence, jump to 28:07 where Cedric talks about taking a shot that he had confidence in taking that may or may not have technically been the best option, but he was confident.

He’s pretty impressive.

I'd take Coward over Bailey at any point in the draft. One of the main reasons I want to trade back is for a shot at this kid with the WSH #18 or BKN #19 pick, but I could see someone grabbing him in the late part of the lottery at this point.

If you're talking 3 for 6 + 18, who are you taking at 6?

or

3 + 35 for 8 + 19 + 26 + move protection from top 8 to top 20 on the 2027/28 traded pick, who are you taking at 8?

I can see him going late lottery.

Wonder if a team in the 11 to 14 range would trade back for 19 + 26?

[Arsenal]

Ideal trade down would combine the picks after #8 to trade back up into the late lotto, then:

#8: Essengue
#12: Coward
#35: Markovic

Would be a home run draft.

[sodmoraes]

What im not understanding about this Coward's hype( not following him closely). Isnt he a junior, who only played in bad teams( and played very few games)? Ok he may be a good athlete with good shooting profile, but if hes that good why hes just being drafted now?

[Redemption76]

I realize this is very simplistic but I’m a simple person. Seems to me that moving past the Embiid/Podcast era we have 2, maybe three assets: Maxey, McCain and hopefully Q. All guards, none a true PG.

So why would we want another guard who isn’t a distributor? I realize BPA and all, but sheesh, we are going to load up on the same position that we already have three of?

And we have precious few draft pics moving forward as well.

We need so many young and cheap players. I think a trade down for Kon, KJ, Noa or Coward is ideal. If you can do two trade downs and get BKN pics, maybe you can get two of that list and have a pick or two moving forward.

Feel free to shoot this down, but it seems like picks in 8-12 plus a few more in the future fits our long term needs more than another guard who isn’t a distributor.

It’ll be fun to watch Tre or VJ in SL, but I’d rather have a few bigger wings with crazy upside (not Ace, because eff his loser energy) or a great passer, high IQ player like KJ, who fit the long term needs.

Just my $0.02…

[sodmoraes]

I realize this is very simplistic but I’m a simple person. Seems to me that moving past the Embiid/Podcast era we have 2, maybe three assets: Maxey, McCain and hopefully Q. All guards, none a true PG.

So why would we want another guard who isn’t a distributor? I realize BPA and all, but sheesh, we are going to load up on the same position that we already have three of?

And we have precious few draft pics moving forward as well.

We need so many young and cheap players. I think a trade down for Kon, KJ, Noa or Coward is ideal. If you can do two trade downs and get BKN pics, maybe you can get two of that list and have a pick or two moving forward.

Feel free to shoot this down, but it seems like picks in 8-12 plus a few more in the future fits our long term needs more than another guard who isn’t a distributor.

It’ll be fun to watch Tre or VJ in SL, but I’d rather have a few bigger wings with crazy upside (not Ace, because eff his loser energy) or a great passer, high IQ player like KJ, who fit the long term needs.

Just my $0.02…

I agree with you. Thats why i would draft Ace, even if he doesnt want to be here( and i even have doubt if this is the case. His agent seems dumb and theres a lot of smokescreen going on). We need a wing badly and Ace has a lot of potential, even with all his flaws.

Sent from my SM-G780G using RealGM mobile app

[Arsenal]

If Ace is the BPA that's who we're taking, media slander campaign be damned. If someone else wants him, they need to PAY UP.

[MVP1992]

What im not understanding about this Coward's hype( not following him closely). Isnt he a junior, who only played in bad teams( and played very few games)? Ok he may be a good athlete with good shooting profile, but if hes that good why hes just being drafted now?

Chuck this into GROK or your favourite AI tool, and have a read:
"Can you look into Cedric Coward and dig into why he's only just this year flying up draft boards at age 21? Why now? Compare his last 3 seasons."


What it likely won't tell you is what he did post shoulder injury after his final 6 games leading up to the draft combine... he hit the gym. He goes into his jump from D3 to D1 and beyond in the @LeagueHim youtube video I posted above.
He used to play as a forward, posting up a lot. Layups and dunks. High fg %.
Switched to playmaking wing. Learnt to shoot 3pters at 40% clip.

Season: 2022-23 Post up forward.
Games: 34
MPG: 20.5
PPG: 7.3
RPG: 4.0
APG: 1.1
SPG: 0.8
BPG: 0.6
FG%: 68.3%
3P%: 33.3%
FT%: 72.4%
TOV: 1.1
eFG%: 68.8%
PPP: N/A

Season: 2023-24 Wing.
Games: 32
MPG: 30.5
PPG: 15.4
RPG: 6.7
APG: 1.7
SPG: 0.9
BPG: 0.7
FG%: 56.5%
3P%: 39.4%
FT%: 87.5%
TOV: 2.2
eFG%: 60.7%
PPP: N/A

Season: 2024-25 Play making wing.
Games: 6
MPG: 31.2
PPG: 17.7
RPG: 7.0
APG: 3.7
SPG: 0.8
BPG: 1.7
FG%: 55.7%
3P%: 40.0%
FT%: 83.9%
TOV: 2.5
eFG%: 60.0%
PPP: 1.161

Why Draft Buzz Now?: The jump to the WCC showcased his ability to perform against better competition. His combine performance (71% aggregate jumpers, 38.5” vertical, 7’2.25” wingspan) and massive hands highlighted NBA-ready tools. His efficiency in a small sample and versatile skill set (shooting, passing, defense) aligned with NBA needs, despite the injury.

[FireMorey]

I realize this is very simplistic but I’m a simple person. Seems to me that moving past the Embiid/Podcast era we have 2, maybe three assets: Maxey, McCain and hopefully Q. All guards, none a true PG.

So why would we want another guard who isn’t a distributor? I realize BPA and all, but sheesh, we are going to load up on the same position that we already have three of?

And we have precious few draft pics moving forward as well.

We need so many young and cheap players. I think a trade down for Kon, KJ, Noa or Coward is ideal. If you can do two trade downs and get BKN pics, maybe you can get two of that list and have a pick or two moving forward.

Feel free to shoot this down, but it seems like picks in 8-12 plus a few more in the future fits our long term needs more than another guard who isn’t a distributor.

It’ll be fun to watch Tre or VJ in SL, but I’d rather have a few bigger wings with crazy upside (not Ace, because eff his loser energy) or a great passer, high IQ player like KJ, who fit the long term needs.

Just my $0.02…

Can't think about it that way. Just have to come away with the best player in this draft you possibly can. We don't even know if McCain or Maxey will be here in two years.

[Black Mage]

I realize this is very simplistic but I’m a simple person. Seems to me that moving past the Embiid/Podcast era we have 2, maybe three assets: Maxey, McCain and hopefully Q. All guards, none a true PG.

So why would we want another guard who isn’t a distributor? I realize BPA and all, but sheesh, we are going to load up on the same position that we already have three of?

And we have precious few draft pics moving forward as well.

We need so many young and cheap players. I think a trade down for Kon, KJ, Noa or Coward is ideal. If you can do two trade downs and get BKN pics, maybe you can get two of that list and have a pick or two moving forward.

Feel free to shoot this down, but it seems like picks in 8-12 plus a few more in the future fits our long term needs more than another guard who isn’t a distributor.

It’ll be fun to watch Tre or VJ in SL, but I’d rather have a few bigger wings with crazy upside (not Ace, because eff his loser energy) or a great passer, high IQ player like KJ, who fit the long term needs.

Just my $0.02…

It's a legitimate concern to have; but when picking inside the Top 5, the concern is less about roster fit and more about trying to find a franchise altering player. The Hawks traded out of Luka b/c they thought he was redundant to Trae Young. The Hawks would have had 2 tradable assets to replenish future picks by later trading one of Luke or Trae. If Sixers felt VJ was becoming the "real deal" they would have suitors for Maxey, McCain and Grimes.

Kon isn't solving your play creation/distributor issues either. He is heavily reliant on being set up and his on-ball shooting is highly suspect. Noa is like a concept car, he looks cool but is he ever gong to come to fruition? Coward, I like quite a bit, but seriously small sample size for a kid who is allegedly a late bloomer. KJ is probably the best play creator, but his shot was rough from 3 and there's real concern over his athleticism holding up against NBA athletes.

[Jailblazers7]

Yeah, you’ve gotta just take BPA. Grimes had some nice games on a tanking team and McCain doesn’t even have a full 30 game sample size of NBA production.

[youngcrev]

Grimes is a mediocre role playing guard and a free agent. I don't think he's a factor at what they do at 3.

[AI_Efficiency]

I realize this is very simplistic but I’m a simple person. Seems to me that moving past the Embiid/Podcast era we have 2, maybe three assets: Maxey, McCain and hopefully Q. All guards, none a true PG.

So why would we want another guard who isn’t a distributor? I realize BPA and all, but sheesh, we are going to load up on the same position that we already have three of?

And we have precious few draft pics moving forward as well.

We need so many young and cheap players. I think a trade down for Kon, KJ, Noa or Coward is ideal. If you can do two trade downs and get BKN pics, maybe you can get two of that list and have a pick or two moving forward.

Feel free to shoot this down, but it seems like picks in 8-12 plus a few more in the future fits our long term needs more than another guard who isn’t a distributor.

It’ll be fun to watch Tre or VJ in SL, but I’d rather have a few bigger wings with crazy upside (not Ace, because eff his loser energy) or a great passer, high IQ player like KJ, who fit the long term needs.

Just my $0.02…

It's a legitimate concern to have; but when picking inside the Top 5, the concern is less about roster fit and more about trying to find a franchise altering player. The Hawks traded out of Luka b/c they thought he was redundant to Trae Young. The Hawks would have had 2 tradable assets to replenish future picks by later trading one of Luke or Trae. If Sixers felt VJ was becoming the "real deal" they would have suitors for Maxey, McCain and Grimes.

Kon isn't solving your play creation/distributor issues either. He is heavily reliant on being set up and his on-ball shooting is highly suspect. Noa is like a concept car, he looks cool but is he ever gong to come to fruition? Coward, I like quite a bit, but seriously small sample size for a kid who is allegedly a late bloomer. KJ is probably the best play creator, but his shot was rough from 3 and there's real concern over his athleticism holding up against NBA athletes.

Just fyi I think it was either or with Trae and Luka. One went 3 and the other went 5. They could never have both. Agree with the general point though.

[Black Mage]

Grimes is a mediocre role playing guard and a free agent. I don't think he's a factor at what they do at 3.

Grimes is more than just a role player. Plug him into the Pacers or OKC right now and people would be wow'ing over his contributions.

[youngcrev]

You can say stand pat and take whoever you think is the BPA no matter what, but that's a little oversimplified and I don't think is maximizing the asset.

If they have their guy and aren't sure they can slide back in the draft and still get him, sure it's that simple.

But it's very possible they either have similar grades on a handful of these guys or have a higher grade on a guy that they know they can get later.

I feel like a lot of this stuff is tier based when it comes to BPA. Flagg is going 1 no matter who is on your roster. Harper is going 2. Beyond that boards are going to be all over the place from everything we've heard.

[youngcrev]

Grimes is a mediocre role playing guard and a free agent. I don't think he's a factor at what they do at 3.

Grimes is more than just a role player. Plug him into the Pacers or OKC right now and people would be wow'ing over his contributions.

Plug him into the Thunder and he's not seeing court brotha.

More than just a role player is a wild statement about him IMO. Based on what? Some good scoring games on a team actively trying to lose?

Decent shooter, decent defender, average size, can handle a little, no elite skill/trait. That's a role player.

[mjkvol]

He’s pretty impressive.

I'd take Coward over Bailey at any point in the draft. One of the main reasons I want to trade back is for a shot at this kid with the WSH #18 or BKN #19 pick, but I could see someone grabbing him in the late part of the lottery at this point.

If you're talking 3 for 6 + 18, who are you taking at 6?

or

3 + 35 for 8 + 19 + 26 + move protection from top 8 to top 20 on the 2027/28 traded pick, who are you taking at 8?

I can see him going late lottery.

Wonder if a team in the 11 to 14 range would trade back for 19 + 26?

The reason I want to trade back is because I don't see any surefire difference makers in this draft after #2, and Harper might not be so surefire. Everyone from #3 almost to the teens seem to be players with certain great strengths but question marks, some big and some small.

At picks 6-8 I'd be hoping to grab KK or KJ, and if the opportunity to trade back up into the low teens to grab a kid like Coward, and then a Markovic, Penda, Thierro, or Kalkbrenner at #35, that would be a grand slam draft to me. Especially if my boy Chaz Lanier lands in a good spot.