Where is Nerlens?

SelfishPlayer · Post #1341 » by **SelfishPlayer** » Fri Dec 9, 2016 8:06 pm

The Sixers can find minutes for Noel by benching Henderson, moving Covington to starting SG and Ersan/Dario to SF. Now you have Embiid, Noel, Okafor, and Holmes receiving all of the minutes at C/PF.

Ericb5 · Post #1342 » by **Ericb5** » Fri Dec 9, 2016 8:09 pm

LloydFree wrote:
NJ SixerFan wrote:I know it would be extremely difficult right now with how ersan is playing but I would like to see if a starting front court of Biid and noel could work offensively. I have little doubts it will work defensively. I think noel could def be sold on starting with biid and Simmons and playing the backup center minutes. If it doesn't work out at least there would be no what ifs and you move on.

Not really that difficult. They could let Noel play with Embiid for 4 minutes at the start of each half and and then keep them separated for the other 40 minutes of the game. That way Noel gets the ego boost of being the starter, while really being the backup Center. Ersan could then have as much time as they want, on the floor with either Embiid or Noel.

That's not a bad idea at all. I am moving a bit towards the Noel side in the Okafor/Noel divide simply because I think that the advantage of always having a rim protector on the floor is large.

I still like Okafor a lot more than you do, and think that he will ultimately be a better player than Noel long term, but our bread will be buttered by Embiid, Simmons, and whomever we get in the next draft, and Okafor is a worse fit with Simmons than Noel is.

I hate the fact that we have a gun to our heads by Noel's free agent situation, and I think the risk of getting poor value from Okafor is greater than getting poor value from Noel in a trade. Ultimately, Noel as the center next to Simmons works better than Okafor as the center next to him, and Embiid is probably capable of basically playing the 4 while he shares the floor with Okafor OR Noel enough to make it work with either of them.

There are downsides to either choice, and we will probably have to make a bad trade with one of them anyway.

Embiid is a franchise player and that is the important thing, and Simmons I think is one too. Neither Okafor nor Noel REALLY matter to this team.

Post #1343 » by **tk76** » Fri Dec 9, 2016 8:34 pm

I expect both bigs to be gone in the next few years. Noel would be the better fit, but not at the salary he wants and not in the role the team would want him to fill. Might as well go embiid and a bunch of stretch 4's, and have a cheap defensive 7 footer as a deep reserve. Here's hoping they can pull off a 3 way deal to get mario.

LloydFree · Post #1344 » by **LloydFree** » Fri Dec 9, 2016 8:55 pm

tk76 wrote:I expect both bigs to be gone in the next few years. Noel would be the better fit, but not at the salary he wants and not in the role the team would want him to fill. Might as well go embiid and a bunch of stretch 4's, and have a cheap defensive 7 footer as a deep reserve. Here's hoping they can pull off a 3 way deal to get mario.

Where you been? Defensive Centers aren't cheap anymore and they certainly aren't deep reserves. Furthermore good defensive 7'0 footers aren't just laying around readily available. If they were, you wouldn't be seeing teams like Cleveland and Golden State trying to coax head cases, like Larry Sanders, out of retirement. Having a good defensive Center at 20mil per isn't a backbreaker for a team where everybody else is still on their rookie deals. When Simmons and whoever are up for renegotiation, they'd easily be able to move Noel's contract.

SelfishPlayer · Post #1345 » by **SelfishPlayer** » Fri Dec 9, 2016 9:02 pm

IMO It's a thing of the past to talk about NBA starters wanting too much money. If the guy is good enough to start and he's young then expect him to look for a max contract. I think that Noel will receive a max contract. His version of a max contract will be towards the lower end because he's never accomplished anything. I think that ultimately is what will differentiate the contracts of young starters that were former lottery picks, what sort of max contract has your on court performance qualified you to receive?

lorak · Post #1346 » by **lorak** » Fri Dec 9, 2016 10:24 pm

During halftime report of a game vs NOP they showed some pregame dunks from Noel and he has looked great:

Watch on YouTube

LloydFree · Post #1347 » by **LloydFree** » Fri Dec 9, 2016 10:50 pm

lorak wrote:During halftime report of a game vs NOP they showed some pregame dunks from Noel and he has looked great:

Good to see he's moving around with no limitations. The dunks are nice, but as long as he didn't forget how to constantly disrupt pick-n-rolls or get right and left-handed blocks, he'll add a bunch to this team.

Kobblehead · Post #1348 » by **Kobblehead** » Fri Dec 9, 2016 11:09 pm

Might as well turn our attention back to Boston and try to grab Jae Crowder. Now that they wasted the 3rd pick on Jaylen Brown, they're going to feel the need to get him on the court and justify Ainge taking him.

TTP · Post #1349 » by **TTP** » Fri Dec 9, 2016 11:10 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote:IMO It's a thing of the past to talk about NBA starters wanting too much money. If the guy is good enough to start and he's young then expect him to look for a max contract. I think that Noel will receive a max contract. His version of a max contract will be towards the lower end because he's never accomplished anything. I think that ultimately is what will differentiate the contracts of young starters that were former lottery picks, what sort of max contract has your on court performance qualified you to receive?

What are you talking about?

SelfishPlayer · Post #1350 » by **SelfishPlayer** » Fri Dec 9, 2016 11:15 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Might as well turn our attention back to Boston and try to grab Jae Crowder. Now that they wasted the 3rd pick on Jaylen Brown, they're going to feel the need to get him on the court and justify Ainge taking him.

You don't think that 20 year old Jaylen Brown will prove to be worthy of a #3 pick in the NBA draft?

Kobblehead · Post #1351 » by **Kobblehead** » Fri Dec 9, 2016 11:25 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:Might as well turn our attention back to Boston and try to grab Jae Crowder. Now that they wasted the 3rd pick on Jaylen Brown, they're going to feel the need to get him on the court and justify Ainge taking him.

You don't think that 20 year old Jaylen Brown will prove to be worthy of a #3 pick in the NBA draft?

He can't shoot or defend and was an awful basketball player at Cal as a freshman.

TTP · Post #1352 » by **TTP** » Fri Dec 9, 2016 11:26 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:Might as well turn our attention back to Boston and try to grab Jae Crowder. Now that they wasted the 3rd pick on Jaylen Brown, they're going to feel the need to get him on the court and justify Ainge taking him.

You don't think that 20 year old Jaylen Brown will prove to be worthy of a #3 pick in the NBA draft?

Can you clarify what you were talking about in the post I quoted?

SelfishPlayer · Post #1353 » by **SelfishPlayer** » Fri Dec 9, 2016 11:28 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:Might as well turn our attention back to Boston and try to grab Jae Crowder. Now that they wasted the 3rd pick on Jaylen Brown, they're going to feel the need to get him on the court and justify Ainge taking him.

You don't think that 20 year old Jaylen Brown will prove to be worthy of a #3 pick in the NBA draft?

He can't shoot or defend and was an awful basketball player at Cal as a freshman.

I'm asking, do you believe that he will never prove to be worthy of a top 3 pick in an NBA draft?

Ericb5 · Post #1354 » by **Ericb5** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:09 am

Boston should have traded that pick for Noel. The best player on the board was probably Dunn, who didn't fit, and Brown was a bit of a reach.

He is young and could still turn into a good pick, but he isn't going to help the current Boston team, and Noel would have.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

spikeslovechild · Post #1355 » by **spikeslovechild** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:16 am

tk76 wrote:I expect both bigs to be gone in the next few years. Noel would be the better fit, but not at the salary he wants and not in the role the team would want him to fill. Might as well go embiid and a bunch of stretch 4's, and have a cheap defensive 7 footer as a deep reserve. Here's hoping they can pull off a 3 way deal to get mario.

I'm hoping there is someway to get WCS and another first round pick. That would be the ideal trade. It resets the clock to three years with WCS and he's a more reasonable sign once free agency arrives.

I also don't think it's terribly hard to find a good defensive center to backup Embiid in free agency. Ezeli went for decent money last year. Aldrich terms weren't terrible. We can find a good defensive center for around 7-9 million in free agency. Or we could trade for someone like WCS who is still on his rookie deal while giving up an asset for around three million.

We have to be smart here. It isn't even a discussion of whether you prefer Okafor offense or Noels defense or whether defense deserves to be paid. The minutes aren't there to justify maxing him. I've also heard well we can sign him and just move him later the problem is no team is going to trade for a reserve backup 15 min center making 20 million.

More to the point he's not willing to accept the role. It's just crazy. The only way it would make some semblance of sense is if we already had a team in place. Like for example what happened with the TT extension. Unfortunately for us we don't. We don't have a Lebron on the roster. A Irving. A Love. We need the financial flexibility to get those players.

hookshot199 · Post #1356 » by **hookshot199** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:48 am

spikeslovechild wrote:
LloydFree wrote:
NJ SixerFan wrote:I know it would be extremely difficult right now with how ersan is playing but I would like to see if a starting front court of Biid and noel could work offensively. I have little doubts it will work defensively. I think noel could def be sold on starting with biid and Simmons and playing the backup center minutes. If it doesn't work out at least there would be no what ifs and you move on.

Not really that difficult. They could let Noel play with Embiid for 4 minutes at the start of each half and and then keep them separated for the other 40 minutes of the game. That way Noel gets the ego boost of being the starter, while really being the backup Center. Ersan could then have as much time as they want, on the floor with either Embiid or Noel.

What you typed is utter nonsense. First of all, Embiid eventually will be playing 33-35 minutes a game. He's already close to 30 (playing at around 28 minutes right now) in his most recent outings. That leaves 20 minutes for Noel as a backup this season and 13-15 minutes moving forward. That just isn't enough to keep him happy or more importantly justify paying him the kind of max money deal he is looking for.

Two, playing him at PF for 4 minutes with Embiid accomplishes nothing unless he plays well and in the unlikely event he does then he should be playing more minutes at PF not just 4. If he doesn't then why play him there in the first place? We have Saric. Ersan. Holmes. All who are more then capable why would we cut their minutes and hurt the team to placate Noel?

Why should he play 35 minutes/game given his injury history.Of other leading centers, Noah's career average is 29; only two years over 32. Steven Adams: career average 22, current season 30. Dwight Howard: career average 35. Drummond: career average 30. De Andre Jordan: career 27, last five years 32. Marc Gasol: career 33.7. Cousins: career 31.7, slightly higher this season.

Noel also has a history of minor injuries. No reason that 30 minutes shouldn't be enough.

We have Saric for six or seven years. Holmes: second year on a Hinkie special. Ilyasova until June. That's it. We'll have to pay him $15 mil to keep him and Holmes, a couple of years from now, $10 mil.

I'd rather pay Noel max or close to max. But then it's not my money. Who cares!

Chuck-Cheese · Post #1357 » by **Chuck-Cheese** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:48 am

Ericb5 wrote:Boston should have traded that pick for Noel. The best player on the board was probably Dunn, who didn't fit, and Brown was a bit of a reach.

He is young and could still turn into a good pick, but he isn't going to help the current Boston team, and Noel would have.

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Not worth the 3rd pick unless you plan to sign him long term

SelfishPlayer · Post #1358 » by **SelfishPlayer** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:09 am

hookshot199 wrote: and Holmes, a couple of years from now, $10 mil.

If Holmes keeps progressing, there is no way that he doesn't get paid starter's money which will probably be something like $18M per season.

phifans · Post #1359 » by **phifans** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:32 am

hookshot199 wrote:
spikeslovechild wrote:
LloydFree wrote:Not really that difficult. They could let Noel play with Embiid for 4 minutes at the start of each half and and then keep them separated for the other 40 minutes of the game. That way Noel gets the ego boost of being the starter, while really being the backup Center. Ersan could then have as much time as they want, on the floor with either Embiid or Noel.

What you typed is utter nonsense. First of all, Embiid eventually will be playing 33-35 minutes a game. He's already close to 30 (playing at around 28 minutes right now) in his most recent outings. That leaves 20 minutes for Noel as a backup this season and 13-15 minutes moving forward. That just isn't enough to keep him happy or more importantly justify paying him the kind of max money deal he is looking for.

Two, playing him at PF for 4 minutes with Embiid accomplishes nothing unless he plays well and in the unlikely event he does then he should be playing more minutes at PF not just 4. If he doesn't then why play him there in the first place? We have Saric. Ersan. Holmes. All who are more then capable why would we cut their minutes and hurt the team to placate Noel?

Why should he play 35 minutes/game given his injury history.Of other leading centers, Noah's career average is 29; only two years over 32. Steven Adams: career average 22, current season 30. Dwight Howard: career average 35. Drummond: career average 30. De Andre Jordan: career 27, last five years 32. Marc Gasol: career 33.7. Cousins: career 31.7, slightly higher this season.

From the guys you listed above only Dwight , Drummond Marc and Cousins are the leader of their team respectively so I think yeah Embiid would average 30-35mins per game for most of his career. Thats how long a big man leader plays now a days if not for more (Towns averaged 35mins and Porz averaged 34mins just in their second year and AD averaged 38mins (and over 35 mins in four of his five seasons)

hookshot199 · Post #1360 » by **hookshot199** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:34 am

SelfishPlayer wrote:
hookshot199 wrote: and Holmes, a couple of years from now, $10 mil.

If Holmes keeps progressing, there is no way that he doesn't get paid starter's money which will probably be something like $18M per season.

You might be right, but I'm inclined to think he's not going to get enough minutes this year or next to make that sort of claim. We'll have to see what players in his situation get paid during the arms race.

The Rockets just matched the Nets' offer for Montiejunas: four years/$37 mil. That's $9 mil/year.