Okafor trade talk: Will he be traded by the deadline?

[Bum Adebayo]

Yea mario sucks right now but I would do Okafor for Mario straight up, getting rid of Okafor is addition by substraction, anything you can obtain by trading him is a bonus, at least Mario fits like a glove here if he shows he can shoot with consistency when given minutes.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

Highly talented? no he is not period. Can't rebound, no defense, no reliable outside shot, low motor. Basically the perfect center.

Okafor is arguably the most skilled offensive low post big man in the NBA. He has extraordinary feet,hands,moves. He was instantaneously double teamed as an NBA Rookie. Thats unheard of. His first game as a rookie vs Boston the Celtic players and coaches were looking at each other like WTH is this? What are we supposed to do with this?

Yes his defense, rebounding, conditioning need alot of work but hes only 21 y.o. he has plenty of time to mature get stronger . And Hes hurt to boot.

You dont give him away for the 17th -20th pick in the draft.

If Okafor is really in fact hurt, to the extent that he looks like he has gotten worse at nearly everything....then he should be saying something because obviously the overly cautious medical staff has yet to pick up on it.

Despite supporting him because he plays for our team (criminal I know), I thought it was the exact opposite. All I heard was how much weight he lost, and how much better shape he had gotten in. The still injured theory popped up just recently. Even I'm not buying that. As you stated, this overly cautious medical staff sits players if they have a pimple that's sore from being popped. Something is definitely going on with Jah. I think it's mental and I think it's circumstantial, but not injury related.

[TTP]

Where have they gone part way? One of the two guys I've argued with has shifted his original position multiple times and refuses to admit it.

I led off my first post going part way with them by saying that it's reasonable to expect him to improve but unreasonable to suggest he hasn't been one of the worst players in the league thus far.

The bolded has nothing to do with the argument. I'm not talking about draft position, history, his skill set, or his fit with us. My singular point is that he has been one of the worst players in the league thus far. Maybe his circumstances are the reason he's been one of the worst - I never suggested otherwise. Injured or not, he's been one of the worst players in the league.

'Thus far' this year? Or 'thus far' in his career? Because the latter would make you sound absolutely ridiculous.

he's been one of the worst players in the league.

This year. Right?

He HAS sounded absolutely ridiculous lol. From baiting, to the insults, to just putting words in whoevers mouth he decides to attack. I got....Okafor is the worst player in the NBA....
I responded by basically saying that statement is a tad far fetched. Next thing you know I'm a Prokafor that backtracks, shifts and is completely unaware of the situation while lacking basic reading comprehension skills. Yeah....had to put that one to rest.

Dude you brought the insults - you responded to my first post by calling me idiotic, bird brained, and narrow minded. There were no insults prior to that post. Then you got upset that insults were brought to the table??? Maybe you shouldn't use insults then?

What words did I put in your mouth? I pointed out the incredible inconsistencies in your posts. We were debating Okafor's present performance and you claimed I missed your point about Okafor's upside, which was mysteriously absent from your previous post. Was it something you were thinking in your head that you forgot to write down? How am I supposed to know that?

I don't think I even used the word Prokafor once in any of my posts - you responded to someone else (Unbreakable99) saying that and are now attributing that to me. I challenge you to find a single example of me calling you a Prokafor within our conversation. This is literally an example of you putting words in my mouth - something you are accusing ME of doing! You're projecting.

[LongLiveHinkie]

I'm starting to think the entertainment value of the board's meltdown and social media that will ensue if Okafor isn't traded will be of more entertainment value than what we'll get back for Okafor.

[AI_Efficiency]

Highly talented? no he is not period. Can't rebound, no defense, no reliable outside shot, low motor. Basically the perfect center.

Okafor is arguably the most skilled offensive low post big man in the NBA. He has extraordinary feet,hands,moves. He was instantaneously double teamed as an NBA Rookie. Thats unheard of. His first game as a rookie vs Boston the Celtic players and coaches were looking at each other like WTH is this? What are we supposed to do with this?

Yes his defense, rebounding, conditioning need alot of work but hes only 21 y.o. he has plenty of time to mature get stronger . And Hes hurt to boot.

You dont give him away for the 17th -20th pick in the draft.

Did you read the fivethirtyeight article on Okafor? He rebounds like a wing, has a defensive RPM of second to last among qualified centers and shoots 27 percent from outside 16 feet. He's just not a very good player. Also, citing all the double teams like its a positive is kinda funny. Okafor was awful at passing out of double teams, and the players around him were not great outside shooters. I wouldn't take the fact that he was consistently double teamed as a sign hes the next Duncan.

[LloydFree]

I feel like there has to be some contending teams whod be willing to give Okafor a shot, as a scorer off the bench. Like if you are the Washington Wizards and know that you've got a decent shot at the conference finals, wouldnt you want to upgrade that GOD AWFUL bench they have?

Something like where they get Okafor and Sixers get Oubre Jr and their 2018 1st rd pick?

Hawks come to mind too, since Splitter obviousl hasnt worked as a backup to Dwight. Theyve got Bembry and Prince chillin on their bench that could be intriguing to the Sixers, as well as a pick from the Twolves that is lottery protected through 2020.

Just spit balling here, no rumors of it. Just seems like teams like that, who are in the playoffs but could use some more scoring, would be all over getting Okafor to come in for 20 min a game off the bench and get them some easy buckets.

Would rather not corner ourselves with deals with the Bulls or Pelicans when neither sounds all that great. If were going for a young player and lottery protected pick route, might as well call the better playoff teams and see if we can pry a better young payer away and getting the 20-24 pick as opposed to a **** player and the 15-18 pick.

Unbelievable. Kelly Oubre is an important piece on a top playoff contender. Okafor can't get on the floor for a lottery team. The Wizards aren't trading Oubre alone, for Okafor. Much less adding value. I swear I can't believe some of the things that I've seen here lately.

[TTP]

I just seriously don't understand how anyone can read these two posts back to back and suggest that I'm the one making the attacks.

If you want to argue that he has the potential to be a lot better than he is now, that's reasonable to believe (even if I disagree with the amount he can improve). However, he is almost certainly one of the worst players in the league right now by many different metrics. He's last in RPM for Centers for the second straight season by a HUGE margin with almost the exact same number as last season (-5.24 this season, -5.28 last season). In terms of RPM wins added, he's 3rd worst in the league, ahead of only Brandon Knight and Brandon Ingram.

We won 10 games last year and we performed the worst when he was on the floor by a huge margin - 10 points worse per 100 poss when Okafor was on the floor last season, 15.1 points worse this season.

We've won 27% of our games this season when Okafor plays (compared to 42% for Embiid, 50% for Noel). We're 1-7 when Okafor plays and Noel and Embiid don't play. We're 7-4 when Embiid plays and Okafor doesn't play. We're 10-4 when Noel plays and Okafor doesn't play.

One of the myths from last season was that Okafor struggles because of the quality of teammates around him but Noel and Embiid are each having significant success with the same teammates.

From the eye test alone, the quality of play when Okafor is in the game is atrocious, whereas we frequently look like a good basketball team when he's off the floor.

It's incredible that you guys still don't see it.

It's not that I don't see his struggles. You'd have to be blind not to. It's IT'S the fact that you continue to miss the point that I have made about him. Yes...he hasn't worked out in Philadelphia, but that doesn't mean that at 21 years old he is a lost cause. For some reason you keep running with the idiotic assumption that I'm just blindly supporting him, when that couldn't be any further from the truth. You use bird brained monikers to categorize anyone that shares a different opinion on him than you. How narrow minded can you get.
One more time (I feel like I'm teaching the alphabet).....Yes...He has struggled....No.....He does not fit here....We should trade him....I do not think he is a lost cause....He has shown that he does have talent in the league.
It's incredible that you keep missing my point, and only picking out the things you can spin to support your own stance.

This was my entrance to the discussion and the initial response I received. I made an argument using data to support my opinions and that is ExplosionsInDaSky's reply. Look at the bolded! You brought the insults! You made the attack! Then you get upset at me for resorting to insults and attacking you? Am I in crazy town???

[Lovetron Joe]

I feel like there has to be some contending teams whod be willing to give Okafor a shot, as a scorer off the bench. Like if you are the Washington Wizards and know that you've got a decent shot at the conference finals, wouldnt you want to upgrade that GOD AWFUL bench they have?

Something like where they get Okafor and Sixers get Oubre Jr and their 2018 1st rd pick?

Hawks come to mind too, since Splitter obviousl hasnt worked as a backup to Dwight. Theyve got Bembry and Prince chillin on their bench that could be intriguing to the Sixers, as well as a pick from the Twolves that is lottery protected through 2020.

Just spit balling here, no rumors of it. Just seems like teams like that, who are in the playoffs but could use some more scoring, would be all over getting Okafor to come in for 20 min a game off the bench and get them some easy buckets.

Would rather not corner ourselves with deals with the Bulls or Pelicans when neither sounds all that great. If were going for a young player and lottery protected pick route, might as well call the better playoff teams and see if we can pry a better young payer away and getting the 20-24 pick as opposed to a **** player and the 15-18 pick.

Unbelievable. Kelly Oubre is an important piece on a top playoff contender. Okafor can't get on the floor for a lottery team. The Wizards aren't trading Oubre alone, for Okafor. Much less adding value. I swear I can't believe some of the things that I've seen here in lately.

Kelly is averaging six points a game on 42 percent shooting. He shoots 30% from three point territory. His PER is less than nine. He is a 6'7" 200lb sf in the NBA which is sub average. What does he do well?

Remind me why he is untouchable.

[KKell2507]

I feel like there has to be some contending teams whod be willing to give Okafor a shot, as a scorer off the bench. Like if you are the Washington Wizards and know that you've got a decent shot at the conference finals, wouldnt you want to upgrade that GOD AWFUL bench they have?

Something like where they get Okafor and Sixers get Oubre Jr and their 2018 1st rd pick?

Hawks come to mind too, since Splitter obviousl hasnt worked as a backup to Dwight. Theyve got Bembry and Prince chillin on their bench that could be intriguing to the Sixers, as well as a pick from the Twolves that is lottery protected through 2020.

Just spit balling here, no rumors of it. Just seems like teams like that, who are in the playoffs but could use some more scoring, would be all over getting Okafor to come in for 20 min a game off the bench and get them some easy buckets.

Would rather not corner ourselves with deals with the Bulls or Pelicans when neither sounds all that great. If were going for a young player and lottery protected pick route, might as well call the better playoff teams and see if we can pry a better young payer away and getting the 20-24 pick as opposed to a **** player and the 15-18 pick.

Unbelievable. Kelly Oubre is an important piece on a top playoff contenders. Okafor can't get on the floor for a lottery team. The Wizards aren't trading Oubre alone, for Okafor. Much less adding value. I swear I can't believe some of the things that I've seen here in lately.

Oubre is in the rotation for a playoff contender by default. Because their bench is literally that awful. They have no other wing player to even think about putting in the game besides Sheldon McClellan who has honestly gotten some of his minutes as it is. His RPM is lower than Stauskas, as hes been a net negative on both offense and defense(a little better than Stauskas on defense but a little worse on offense). His PER is lower than Stauskas. Hes shooting 30.1% from 3 but takes 2.6 a game. His Ast Ratio is lower than his TO Ratio, and his Value Added is 56th out of 65 qualified small forwards at -24.5. Jahlil's value added in comparison is 56.0.

Oubre is far from an "important piece" on a playoff contender. Does he get minutes, sure. But he gets minutes out of necessity, not necessarily production. The same reason Okafor DOESNT get minutes, we dont need him because we have 3 players who play the same position who are better. The Wizards dont have 3 SF's much less 3 better ones.

And were talking about a pick that is likely in the 20s Next year as the "value added" in the trade. If they need Gerald Henderson in the deal too to give them some wing help then so be it. But then you have to talk salary matching and thats complicated. Honestly how different is Oubre and the 23rd pick in the 2018 draft, that much different than Valentine and the 16th pick in the 2017 draft value wise?

[TTP]

I feel like there has to be some contending teams whod be willing to give Okafor a shot, as a scorer off the bench. Like if you are the Washington Wizards and know that you've got a decent shot at the conference finals, wouldnt you want to upgrade that GOD AWFUL bench they have?

Something like where they get Okafor and Sixers get Oubre Jr and their 2018 1st rd pick?

Hawks come to mind too, since Splitter obviousl hasnt worked as a backup to Dwight. Theyve got Bembry and Prince chillin on their bench that could be intriguing to the Sixers, as well as a pick from the Twolves that is lottery protected through 2020.

Just spit balling here, no rumors of it. Just seems like teams like that, who are in the playoffs but could use some more scoring, would be all over getting Okafor to come in for 20 min a game off the bench and get them some easy buckets.

Would rather not corner ourselves with deals with the Bulls or Pelicans when neither sounds all that great. If were going for a young player and lottery protected pick route, might as well call the better playoff teams and see if we can pry a better young payer away and getting the 20-24 pick as opposed to a **** player and the 15-18 pick.

Unbelievable. Kelly Oubre is an important piece on a top playoff contender. Okafor can't get on the floor for a lottery team. The Wizards aren't trading Oubre alone, for Okafor. Much less adding value. I swear I can't believe some of the things that I've seen here in lately.

Kelly is averaging six points a game on 42 percent shooting. He shoots 30% from three point territory. His PER is less than nine. He is a 6'7" 200lb sf in the NBA which is sub average. What does he do well?

Remind me why he is untouchable.

He's an important member of the All-NBA Most Handsome 1st Team.

[hookshot199]

Where have they gone part way? One of the two guys I've argued with has shifted his original position multiple times and refuses to admit it.

I led off my first post going part way with them by saying that it's reasonable to expect him to improve but unreasonable to suggest he hasn't been one of the worst players in the league thus far.

The bolded has nothing to do with the argument. I'm not talking about draft position, history, his skill set, or his fit with us. My singular point is that he has been one of the worst players in the league thus far. Maybe his circumstances are the reason he's been one of the worst - I never suggested otherwise. Injured or not, he's been one of the worst players in the league.

'Thus far' this year? Or 'thus far' in his career? Because the latter would make you sound absolutely ridiculous.

he's been one of the worst players in the league.

This year. Right?

He HAS sounded absolutely ridiculous lol. From baiting, to the insults, to just putting words in whoevers mouth he decides to attack. I got....Okafor is the worst player in the NBA....
I responded by basically saying that statement is a tad far fetched. Next thing you know I'm a Prokafor that backtracks, shifts and is completely unaware of the situation while lacking basic reading comprehension skills. Yeah....had to put that one to rest.

You've got my sympathy. I was hoping we all could have an intelligent discussion about Okafor's trade value since things are moving rapidly, what with Orlando trading Ibaka and going into a deep tank. He's trying to use statistics to show that somebody's 10 minutes/game as a deep bench player had a better season than then-19-year-old Okafor…or somebody who played in the D-League most of the year…or even got waived…are somehow better players.

Anyway, what interested me today is that Orlando is now going full speed ahead with its tank. It will be interesting to see if they can pass the Lakers. I still believe we're going to trade Okafor to New Orleans, but not make a stupid trade. He's still worth a mid-first-round pick, perhaps slightly higher.

But in light of the Ibaka trade, if the Colangelos are looking to do a stealth tank - in the context of the reports that Simmons might not play or in light of Embiid's injury…I wouldn't be shocked if they moved Ilyasova and perhaps Sergio. The Cavs still need a backup point and, if management has decided that Saric is the future, why not move Ilyasova as well?

And then, in light of the Ibaka trade, do the Lakers finally try to move Lou-Will.

This is now becoming like a chess game. Orlando's the first to make an obvious commitment to tank. Expect some others to follow.

[TTP]

'Thus far' this year? Or 'thus far' in his career? Because the latter would make you sound absolutely ridiculous.



This year. Right?

He HAS sounded absolutely ridiculous lol. From baiting, to the insults, to just putting words in whoevers mouth he decides to attack. I got....Okafor is the worst player in the NBA....
I responded by basically saying that statement is a tad far fetched. Next thing you know I'm a Prokafor that backtracks, shifts and is completely unaware of the situation while lacking basic reading comprehension skills. Yeah....had to put that one to rest.

You've got my sympathy. I was hoping we all could have an intelligent discussion about Okafor's trade value since things are moving rapidly, what with Orlando trading Ibaka and going into a deep tank. He's trying to use statistics to show that somebody's 10 minutes/game as a deep bench player had a better season than then-19-year-old Okafor…or somebody who played in the D-League most of the year…or even got waived…are somehow better players.

Anyway, what interested me today is that Orlando is now going full speed ahead with its tank. It will be interesting to see if they can pass the Lakers. I still believe we're going to trade Okafor to New Orleans, but not make a stupid trade. He's still worth a mid-first-round pick, perhaps slightly higher.

But in light of the Ibaka trade, if the Colangelos are looking to do a stealth tank - in the context of the reports that Simmons might not play or in light of Embiid's injury…I wouldn't be shocked if they moved Ilyasova and perhaps Sergio. The Cavs still need a backup point and, if management has decided that Saric is the future, why not move Ilyasova as well?

And then, in light of the Ibaka trade, do the Lakers finally try to move Lou-Will.

This is now becoming like a chess game. Orlando's the first to make an obvious commitment to tank. Expect some others to follow.

I specified early on in the conversation that I was talking about from a minutes adjusted perspective (using RPM wins added he was 4th worst in the NBA with -2.18). Also since Okafor's value was negative, the more minutes played, the more detrimental he was. Some D-League players that played 10 minutes a game might have been worse on a per minute basis and would have been worse had they gotten the minutes Okafor had.

As an example with RPM, Rozier was roughly as much of a negative on a per minute basis as Okafor was. Rozier played one-fifth the minutes Okafor played though, so he had only one-fifth the negative impact Okafor had. Rashad Vaughn graded worse than Okafor did on a per minute basis but only played around two-thirds the minutes, thus was also less detrimental. In this case, it's more subjective which one you'd consider the worse player by that metric.

RPM is far from perfect, but when also considering on/offs and the team's record, there's just very little chance he was not a bottom 10% player last year.

[kukenotas]

Isn't that old? The date says Feb 6th

It is but that was not meant to be posted as breaking news.

The point is according to reputable sources he has been offered a first round pick for a player on a modest deal (Ajinca). The pick somewhere else was revealed to be top ten protected pick in 2018.

So no we shouldn't need to take on Asik to get a top three protected pick. Which assuming everything stands the same (which it won the pelicans are the most talented of the bottom teams) has a 75 percent chance of being 7th or 8th

I think your trade expectations are ridiculous. The Pelicans pick on average ends up in the 6-9 range this year.

I'd expect a team to require something like the 16th-21st pick to take on the Asik contract, a mid-late 1st. Okafor is not going to fetch more than that. Even getting something like the 20th pick for Okafor seems pretty ambitious but I'll use it for the sake of argument.

You aren't going to be able to trade two mid-late 1sts (say the 18th pick and the 20th pick) to acquire roughly the 8th pick.

You say that we shouldn't even need to take on Asik to get a top 3 protected pick and I think that even taking on Asik isn't enough to get a top 3 protected pick for Okafor.

To absorb 30 mil takes u to mid 1st rounder? Are you drunk?

sixers, it was always sixers

[TTP]

It is but that was not meant to be posted as breaking news.

The point is according to reputable sources he has been offered a first round pick for a player on a modest deal (Ajinca). The pick somewhere else was revealed to be top ten protected pick in 2018.

So no we shouldn't need to take on Asik to get a top three protected pick. Which assuming everything stands the same (which it won the pelicans are the most talented of the bottom teams) has a 75 percent chance of being 7th or 8th

I think your trade expectations are ridiculous. The Pelicans pick on average ends up in the 6-9 range this year.

I'd expect a team to require something like the 16th-21st pick to take on the Asik contract, a mid-late 1st. Okafor is not going to fetch more than that. Even getting something like the 20th pick for Okafor seems pretty ambitious but I'll use it for the sake of argument.

You aren't going to be able to trade two mid-late 1sts (say the 18th pick and the 20th pick) to acquire roughly the 8th pick.

You say that we shouldn't even need to take on Asik to get a top 3 protected pick and I think that even taking on Asik isn't enough to get a top 3 protected pick for Okafor.

To absorb 30 mil takes u to mid 1st rounder? Are you drunk?

sixers, it was always sixers

It's not 30 million. The last year is only 3 million guaranteed. Also, there's still five teams under the salary floor so there might be some more competition than usual because of last summer's cap increase to absorb the contract for a pick. That should devalue the return slightly relative to previous years. The Nets in particular have strong incentive to be willing to absorb that contract given their outlook, lack of picks, and the fact that they're ~11 million under the floor.

[kukenotas]

If Chicago is offering Valentine and any 1st round pick, the 76ers should take it and run.

I would do that too

I don't know how anyone thinks that is a bad offer for a player who grades out as one of the worst in the league. That's robbing the Bulls.

Juat stop. Worst in a league? Number 3 overall pock with oncredible post moves from 21 year old who is on a eookoe contract and can score 20pts and 7 rebs a game. Worst in the league my a..

sixers, it was always sixers

[kukenotas]

you hate okafor, we get it. hes not the player we hoped a 3rd pick would be, but he definately is not one of the worst overall (yeah he is one of the worst rebounders, but thats it)...stop that BS

talking bout defense, valentine is even worse than okafor. have you seen him play?? his defense isnt good enough for dleague level..thats how bad he is as a defender

Wow this is an absolute ridiculous assumption on your part. One of the worst players? Yeah...ok.

If you want to argue that he has the potential to be a lot better than he is now, that's reasonable to believe (even if I disagree with the amount he can improve). However, he is almost certainly one of the worst players in the league right now by many different metrics. He's last in RPM for Centers for the second straight season by a HUGE margin with almost the exact same number as last season (-5.24 this season, -5.28 last season). In terms of RPM wins added, he's 3rd worst in the league, ahead of only Brandon Knight and Brandon Ingram.

We won 10 games last year and we performed the worst when he was on the floor by a huge margin - 10 points worse per 100 poss when Okafor was on the floor last season, 15.1 points worse this season.

We've won 27% of our games this season when Okafor plays (compared to 42% for Embiid, 50% for Noel). We're 1-7 when Okafor plays and Noel and Embiid don't play. We're 7-4 when Embiid plays and Okafor doesn't play. We're 10-4 when Noel plays and Okafor doesn't play.

One of the myths from last season was that Okafor struggles because of the quality of teammates around him but Noel and Embiid are each having significant success with the same teammates.

From the eye test alone, the quality of play when Okafor is in the game is atrocious, whereas we frequently look like a good basketball team when he's off the floor.

It's incredible that you guys still don't see it.

Dude what do you expect. To come back without playing and show 30pts 20 rebs? Chill out. He is not bennet- center With great post moves and with tons of time to improve

sixers, it was always sixers

[Lovetron Joe]

Unbelievable. Kelly Oubre is an important piece on a top playoff contender. Okafor can't get on the floor for a lottery team. The Wizards aren't trading Oubre alone, for Okafor. Much less adding value. I swear I can't believe some of the things that I've seen here in lately.

Kelly is averaging six points a game on 42 percent shooting. He shoots 30% from three point territory. His PER is less than nine. He is a 6'7" 200lb sf in the NBA which is sub average. What does he do well?

Remind me why he is untouchable.

He's an important member of the All-NBA Most Handsome 1st Team.

Could be good for attendance.

[TTP]

Kelly is averaging six points a game on 42 percent shooting. He shoots 30% from three point territory. His PER is less than nine. He is a 6'7" 200lb sf in the NBA which is sub average. What does he do well?

Remind me why he is untouchable.

He's an important member of the All-NBA Most Handsome 1st Team.

Could be good for attendance.

We'd have the wing positions locked up with TLC as well. Unfortunately, the 1st team PF got moved today and is likely unobtainable.

[hookshot199]

He HAS sounded absolutely ridiculous lol. From baiting, to the insults, to just putting words in whoevers mouth he decides to attack. I got....Okafor is the worst player in the NBA....
I responded by basically saying that statement is a tad far fetched. Next thing you know I'm a Prokafor that backtracks, shifts and is completely unaware of the situation while lacking basic reading comprehension skills. Yeah....had to put that one to rest.

You've got my sympathy. I was hoping we all could have an intelligent discussion about Okafor's trade value since things are moving rapidly, what with Orlando trading Ibaka and going into a deep tank. He's trying to use statistics to show that somebody's 10 minutes/game as a deep bench player had a better season than then-19-year-old Okafor…or somebody who played in the D-League most of the year…or even got waived…are somehow better players.

Anyway, what interested me today is that Orlando is now going full speed ahead with its tank. It will be interesting to see if they can pass the Lakers. I still believe we're going to trade Okafor to New Orleans, but not make a stupid trade. He's still worth a mid-first-round pick, perhaps slightly higher.

But in light of the Ibaka trade, if the Colangelos are looking to do a stealth tank - in the context of the reports that Simmons might not play or in light of Embiid's injury…I wouldn't be shocked if they moved Ilyasova and perhaps Sergio. The Cavs still need a backup point and, if management has decided that Saric is the future, why not move Ilyasova as well?

And then, in light of the Ibaka trade, do the Lakers finally try to move Lou-Will.

This is now becoming like a chess game. Orlando's the first to make an obvious commitment to tank. Expect some others to follow.

I specified early on in the conversation that I was talking about from a minutes adjusted perspective. Also since Okafor's value was negative, the more minutes played, the more detrimental he was. Some D-League players that played 10 minutes a game might have been worse on a per minute basis and would have been worse had they gotten the minutes Okafor had.

As an example with RPM, Rozier was roughly as much of a negative on a per minute basis as Okafor was. Rozier played one-fifth the minutes Okafor played though, so he had only one-fifth the negative impact Okafor had. Rashad Vaughn graded worse than Okafor did on a per minute basis but only played around two-thirds the minutes, thus was also less detrimental. In this case, it's more subjective which one you'd consider the worse player by that metric.

Who cares what you specified. You said he's the worst player in the NBA. That's just dumb. Look, it's Valentine's Day. Why don't you take your wife or your girlfriend out for dinner, and maybe she'll talk to sense to you. Just don't tell her your theories about basketball, please.

Enjoy your evening.

[TTP]

you hate okafor, we get it. hes not the player we hoped a 3rd pick would be, but he definately is not one of the worst overall (yeah he is one of the worst rebounders, but thats it)...stop that BS

talking bout defense, valentine is even worse than okafor. have you seen him play?? his defense isnt good enough for dleague level..thats how bad he is as a defender

Wow this is an absolute ridiculous assumption on your part. One of the worst players? Yeah...ok.

If you want to argue that he has the potential to be a lot better than he is now, that's reasonable to believe (even if I disagree with the amount he can improve). However, he is almost certainly one of the worst players in the league right now by many different metrics. He's last in RPM for Centers for the second straight season by a HUGE margin with almost the exact same number as last season (-5.24 this season, -5.28 last season). In terms of RPM wins added, he's 3rd worst in the league, ahead of only Brandon Knight and Brandon Ingram.

We won 10 games last year and we performed the worst when he was on the floor by a huge margin - 10 points worse per 100 poss when Okafor was on the floor last season, 15.1 points worse this season.

We've won 27% of our games this season when Okafor plays (compared to 42% for Embiid, 50% for Noel). We're 1-7 when Okafor plays and Noel and Embiid don't play. We're 7-4 when Embiid plays and Okafor doesn't play. We're 10-4 when Noel plays and Okafor doesn't play.

One of the myths from last season was that Okafor struggles because of the quality of teammates around him but Noel and Embiid are each having significant success with the same teammates.

From the eye test alone, the quality of play when Okafor is in the game is atrocious, whereas we frequently look like a good basketball team when he's off the floor.

It's incredible that you guys still don't see it.

Dude what do you expect. To come back without playing and show 30pts 20 rebs? Chill out. He is not bennet- center With great post moves and with tons of time to improve

sixers, it was always sixers

What I expect doesn't matter for my argument. My argument only concerns with what he has been so far. I literally started off my post specifying that it's reasonable to expect improvement. Did you not read that?