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Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season

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skulky
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1341 » by skulky » Sun Sep 6, 2020 10:59 pm

Kobblehead wrote:You're talking as if he's Ben Simmons or Josh Smith or something. John Wall is a nearly unguardable ball handler in the halfcourt. He can take anyone off the dribble and score at the rim. One of the better slashing guards in our game. And he's had a competent 16 footer in a handful of seasons throughout his career. Great at drawing fouls and a pretty solid free throw shooter. John Wall is a playoff monster. Finals MVP archetype.

I'm willing to guarantee that post-achilles 25 mpg John Wall is still a way better playoff performer than Tobias Harris. We're not talking about paying a star package to acquire Wall. We're talking about dumping a useless player in Tobias Harris.

You’re really embellishing what you’re saying about John Wall. He’s a career 78.1 free throw shooter on 5.5 attempts per game. In his last 2 injury plagued seasons he shot 72.6 and 69.7% from the line. He’s also a career 32.4% 3 point shooter.

He was an exciting and explosive off the dribble small guard, and probably fastest player post iverson.

All his numbers were down and then he ruptured his Achilles and is over 30.

Please look at the contract numbers I posted before. In his final season he would be making half the cap by himself. This is such a bad move: trading bad contract for the worse contract in the league. We have a lot to improve and have to figure out how to navigate the bad contracts of horford and Tobias Harris, but this is not it.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1342 » by Kobblehead » Sun Sep 6, 2020 11:01 pm

VDT wrote:Yes, where playoff monster = 21.9 ppg on 51%TS in his prime, with getting eliminated in the second round being his higherst accomplishment.

He didnt do anything with a decent team in a historically weak conference in his prime. What makes you think that the washed up version of him will do better. The dude has played 80 games in the last 3 seasons and hasnt played a game in the last almost 2 years. If you like this kind of player (i dont) go get Rose. He is getting much less money and will almost surely be better than Wall. Less injury risk also.


Last 19 playoff games: 26.8 PPG, 10.7 assists per game, 1.9 steals per game, 1.2 blocks per game, 7.4 free throw attempts per game

Finals MVP archetype.

Derrick Rose is nothing like John Wall. Wall is one of the best defensive guards in the league and Rose is a sieve. Less injury risk? Detroit couldn't move Rose at the deadline this year because he suffered a season-ending injury.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1343 » by ProcessDoctor » Sun Sep 6, 2020 11:11 pm

Going with the Simmons at backup C thing...

Trade #1: Harris/Scott/#21 for Wall/#9

Trade #2: Horford/Richardson/#36 for Porter/Thad


Wall(28)/Milton(20)
Vassell(24)/Korkmaz(20)/Milton(4)
Porter(20)/Thybulle(28)
Simmons(16)/Thad(24)/Porter(8)
Embiid(30)/Simmons(18)


Wall/Milton/Micic
Vassell/Korkmaz/Smith
Porter/Thybulle/Shayok
Simmons/Thad/#34
Embiid/Pelle/#49


More shooting. Length. Switchable defenders all over (Milton and Korkmaz being the only exceptions).

Shorter duration in cap hell (one year over the apron, two years in the tax).
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1344 » by Kobblehead » Sun Sep 6, 2020 11:12 pm

skulky wrote:You’re really embellishing what you’re saying about John Wall. He’s a career 78.1 free throw shooter on 5.5 attempts per game. In his last 2 injury plagued seasons he shot 72.6 and 69.7% from the line. He’s also a career 32.4% 3 point shooter.

He was an exciting and explosive off the dribble small guard, and probably fastest player post iverson.

All his numbers were down and then he ruptured his Achilles and is over 30.

Please look at the contract numbers I posted before. In his final season he would be making half the cap by himself. This is such a bad move: trading bad contract for the worse contract in the league. We have a lot to improve and have to figure out how to navigate the bad contracts of horford and Tobias Harris, but this is not it.

We'd be the ones offloading the worst contract in the league. We have a guy that can't defend or score off the dribble on a max contract.

The figures on Wall are scary, but his length is not that daunting at all. And even in a reduced capacity, he's guaranteed to be a better playoff player than Tobias Harris.

This is a win-win for us. We offload one of the most useless max contract players in NBA history and we kick the tires on a guy with the player archetype to be an actual solution if we get lucky.

Do you guys seriously think paying a bunch of draft capital for a 6 foot 35 year old with a lengthy injury history of his own is any less risky?
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1345 » by VDT » Sun Sep 6, 2020 11:16 pm

You think post achilles Wall will be a better defender than current Rose?

You could make the same arguments for Rose when he was coming back from his injuries and his injuries were less severe. He was even an MVP yet he looked completely washed up in his first years back and only now did he mange to revive his career a bit as a bench player. And Rose was much younger than Wall when he was injured.

I am not sure what counting only his best years in terms of stats is supposed to show. You are talking about very few games and series which can influence the results. Even then his efficiency was still well below average.

More importantly that player is gone, never to return again. He might very well not play at even a starter level again (see Rose). His skillset certainly doesnt help him. Low bb iq players with bad shooting dont have a lot to fall back on when their athleticism declines.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1346 » by stormi » Sun Sep 6, 2020 11:20 pm

The achilles rupture has ruined a lot of careers. I think someone like KD who's much more of a graceful scorer with absurd length and size is the best bet to combat against this sort of setback. Wall won't be the same type of athlete coming back (obviously), that's going to compromise most of the positives you've marked for him. His mobility will decline; laterally, vertically; his slashing and defending will drop off some. To what extent is hard to predict. However, swapping a fake scorer like Tobias for him and getting into the top 10 is enough compensation for me to be interested in finding out.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1347 » by stormi » Sun Sep 6, 2020 11:21 pm

I can't believe someone called Rose a "low iq scorer" and grouped him with Westbrook.

Yiiiiiiiiiiikes...
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1348 » by Kobblehead » Sun Sep 6, 2020 11:29 pm

There's no risk involved for me. I already know Tobias Harris can't play on either end in the postseason. So even if Wall's achilles renders him ineffective on both ends (I have a hard time believing he won't be effective in some capacity), I still get out of the contract a year earlier than I would have with Tobias.

And if there's somehow a pickswap involved where we get a freaking lotto pick? Forgetabout it, it's a no-brainer.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1349 » by ProcessDoctor » Sun Sep 6, 2020 11:35 pm

stormi wrote:The achilles rupture has ruined a lot of careers. I think someone like KD who's much more of a graceful scorer with absurd length and size is the best bet to combat against this sort of setback. Wall won't be the same type of athlete coming back (obviously), that's going to compromise most of the positives you've marked for him. His mobility will decline; laterally, vertically; his slashing and defending will drop off some. To what extent is hard to predict. However, swapping a fake scorer like Tobias for him and getting into the top 10 is enough compensation for me to be interested in finding out.


This is the biggest factor that makes me say yes. This seems like one of those years where the best (or 2nd best player) gets drafted somewhere near the back end of the lottery.
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Watford/Barlow/Walker
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1350 » by Kobblehead » Sun Sep 6, 2020 11:46 pm

Last I seen, Killian Hayes is being mocked in the backhalf of the top 10. He's my #1 on my bigboard.

Elite defender
Elite shooting potential
Elite passer
Strong off the dribble scoring potential.

He's basically a 6'5" 215 pound Chris Paul.

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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1351 » by VDT » Sun Sep 6, 2020 11:53 pm

ProcessDoctor wrote:
stormi wrote:The achilles rupture has ruined a lot of careers. I think someone like KD who's much more of a graceful scorer with absurd length and size is the best bet to combat against this sort of setback. Wall won't be the same type of athlete coming back (obviously), that's going to compromise most of the positives you've marked for him. His mobility will decline; laterally, vertically; his slashing and defending will drop off some. To what extent is hard to predict. However, swapping a fake scorer like Tobias for him and getting into the top 10 is enough compensation for me to be interested in finding out.


This is the biggest factor that makes me say yes. This seems like one of those years where the best (or 2nd best player) gets drafted somewhere near the back end of the lottery.


There is no way the Wizards are going to give you a pick. I think they are going to run it back and decide what to at the trade deadline or the next offseason. Wall's value is at an all time low, they are not going to trade him now.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1352 » by Kobblehead » Mon Sep 7, 2020 12:02 am

Tommy Sheppard has no equity in John Wall. If they think he's going to be as ineffective as you do, the best time to trade him is before he steps back on a court.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1353 » by VDT » Mon Sep 7, 2020 12:27 am

They are not going to give a lottery pick to move Wall for another bad contract. In principle they should trade Beal for the best offer and tank until Wall's contract is over. Giving a lottery pick when they so close to a rebuild doesnt make sense.

I think though that they will try to run it back and only make the trade if things dont work, which is the most likely scenario.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1354 » by Kobblehead » Mon Sep 7, 2020 12:32 am

They might not think Tobias is a bad contract. They just spent a top 10 pick on Rui Hachimura, another jumbo wing that can't score off the dribble or defend.

For all we know, having Bradley Beal spam jumpers all day with two jumbo Fs like Tobi and Rui could be Shep's wet dream.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1355 » by phillynative » Mon Sep 7, 2020 11:05 am

Anyone like the idea of bringing in Lance Stephenson for the minimum. He could bring us some defense, toughness and playmaking off the bench sort of like the role marcus smart off the bench. Hes strong as a ox with long arms so he can also play the 3 or small ball 4. He doesnt fix anything but maybe he can bring some elements to this team that were missing.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1356 » by Negrodamus » Mon Sep 7, 2020 12:30 pm

Speaking of not thinking Tobias is a bad contract, I’m betting that Brand thinks Tobias is an excellent player that had a bad offseason. The only way he’s looking to trade is if ownership forces him to cut salary, so I doubt that would be a 1:1 bad contract trade.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1357 » by ankle420breaker » Mon Sep 7, 2020 12:40 pm

phillynative wrote:Anyone like the idea of bringing in Lance Stephenson for the minimum. He could bring us some defense, toughness and playmaking off the bench sort of like the role marcus smart off the bench. Hes strong as a ox with long arms so he can also play the 3 or small ball 4. He doesnt fix anything but maybe he can bring some elements to this team that were missing.
A year ago I would've dismissed the idea of adding Lance as crazy talk.

A year later... we're so desperate I'll try anything. Hell, might as well just say f**k it and sign Waiters and Beasley too.

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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1358 » by phillynative » Mon Sep 7, 2020 2:53 pm

ankle420breaker wrote:
phillynative wrote:Anyone like the idea of bringing in Lance Stephenson for the minimum. He could bring us some defense, toughness and playmaking off the bench sort of like the role marcus smart off the bench. Hes strong as a ox with long arms so he can also play the 3 or small ball 4. He doesnt fix anything but maybe he can bring some elements to this team that were missing.
A year ago I would've dismissed the idea of adding Lance as crazy talk.

A year later... we're so desperate I'll try anything. Hell, might as well just say f**k it and sign Waiters and Beasley too.

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Maybe i have gone crazy lol being a fan of this team. I wouldnt put him in the same boat as waiters and beasley though. He actually is a versatile defender who can bring some toughness and shot creating ability and can play multiple positions.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1359 » by skulky » Mon Sep 7, 2020 3:16 pm

Who we bring in on vet minimum deal is pretty low on the priority list, and will be more dictated by our other big picture moves. Lance is not a great locker room guy, an inconsistent shooter, out of the league for a reason. He’s not a player on my radar at all, I don’t think he brings any positive value for this team even as a 12th man.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season 

Post#1360 » by ankle420breaker » Mon Sep 7, 2020 3:35 pm

Tobias, Korkmaz, two 2nds for Kevin Love

Horford, Richardson, Scott for Hield, Barnes, & Parker.

Sign Teague (MLE), Josh Jackson, and Willie Hernangomez.

Embiid/Hernangomez/Pelle
Love/Parker
Barnes/Thybulle
Hield/Milton/Jackson
Simmons/Teague



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