The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV

[KramerDSP]

I am expecting a triple double from Ben Simmons tonight.

10 missed shots
10 missed FT
10 turnovers

?

I could have made some money tonight. LOL

[76ciology]

Ben would have made a freak AFL player in my mind.

I’m Australian and its our crazy national sport (check it out if you have time it’s wild even at the best of times lol.)

Played it myself, was actually handy (was apart of two grand final wins, our championship games in juniors.)

Played back pocket on small forwards and if you know small forwards in the AFL they are SMALL lmao. but after a couple of Ko’s, the worst injury I ever had and a couple a hammies I was like nope I’m way too small/slight to be doing this lol.

I reckon a suped up Grundy/Polly Farmer would be his comp. he was a touted as a top ten pick but if hhe played state lvl he’d go top 3 easy.

Ben just doesn’t have the skills of other big men (Hooks, floaters, small middies) down before even attempting harder skilled moves.

He has a worse range than Shaq I reckon at 4.48 feet for his career.

He still hasn’t had that one move that everyone in the nba has and can’t replicate it on a consistent basis although he hasn’t even really tried too. Mainly because of himself and management saying it’s okay we like what you’re doing.

It’s unfortunate but that’s the reality moving forward with him.

Yeah I read from twitter (eric sidewater) how Ben plays like he’s playing Australian football. Which was a sport Ben loved when he was young.

[76ciology]

“Ben can be a better scorer if he keeps driving or take 3s”

You’re getting higher points per possession on Shake, Maxey and Tobi’s 2man games and Biid’s post than Ben keep relentlessly driving given his not so good finishing ability in HALFCOURT and poor FT.

So.. yes, he can have a higher points per game but it is very likely to lead you to a worse offense.

And if you notice, Doc is fixing this by having an offensive scheme that makes Shake, Maxey and Seth’s ability to run 2man game shine. Let Tobi and Ben focus more on transition and defensive rotations.

[spikeslovechild]

They didn't want just expirings lol, they are gonna get more for Oladipo at the deadline than LeVert would fetch (Oladipo has suitors and there is no free agency really, so teams will give up assets to get him early) and they also managed to get below the tax

That's all calculated

It boiled down to preferring 8 draft assets, plus potentially what Oladipo fetches (and Kurucs), getting outside of the tax, over Simmons, Thybulle, and less draft assets (I don't think Morey offered even close to what BKN gave there)

And that's obviously the right call, which rebuilding team in their right minds wants Simmons on a max over draft assets?

Actually they don't want levert salary more then anything trading for Oladipo accomplishes two things one it's a win now move with a win now roster and two his expiring allows them to clear space next season.

But if Simmons was viewed as a young star you don't think they would have moved other pieces and made it work? The problem is he isn't anymore. Simmons stans need a reality check this is his value around the league and it's a wakeup call I know it was for me. They'd rather have a bunch of late round picks and pick swaps which probably will amount to nothing then Simmons+. It is what it is folks.

Simmons is not viewed as a major asset by other GM's anymore. So all this talk about pivoting to other players is noise and maybe all this talk about us "being happy with Simmons" is more of us being stuck with him moving forward then anything else.

[syntax]

They didn't want just expirings lol, they are gonna get more for Oladipo at the deadline than LeVert would fetch (Oladipo has suitors and there is no free agency really, so teams will give up assets to get him early) and they also managed to get below the tax

That's all calculated

It boiled down to preferring 8 draft assets, plus potentially what Oladipo fetches (and Kurucs), getting outside of the tax, over Simmons, Thybulle, and less draft assets (I don't think Morey offered even close to what BKN gave there)

And that's obviously the right call, which rebuilding team in their right minds wants Simmons on a max over draft assets?

Actually they don't want levert salary more then anything trading for Oladipo accomplishes two things one it's a win now move with a win now roster and two his expiring allows them to clear space next season.

But if Simmons was viewed as a young star you don't think they would have moved other pieces and made it work? The problem is he isn't anymore. Simmons stans need a reality check this is his value around the league and it's a wakeup call I know it was for me. They'd rather have a bunch of late round picks and pick swaps which probably will amount to nothing then Simmons+. It is what it is folks.

Simmons is not viewed as a major asset by other GM's anymore. So all this talk about pivoting to other players is noise and maybe all this talk about us "being happy with Simmons" is more of us being stuck with him moving forward then anything else.

Or he wasn't on the table. Like Doc and the Sixers have said all along.

[Stanford]

Or he wasn't on the table. Like Doc and the Sixers have said all along.

You're living in a world of fantasy

[syntax]

Or he wasn't on the table. Like Doc and the Sixers have said all along.

You're living in a world of fantasy

Where is James now? It's you are living in fantasy.

[PLO]

C'mon, he was on the table.

[youngcrev]

They didn't want just expirings lol, they are gonna get more for Oladipo at the deadline than LeVert would fetch (Oladipo has suitors and there is no free agency really, so teams will give up assets to get him early) and they also managed to get below the tax

That's all calculated

It boiled down to preferring 8 draft assets, plus potentially what Oladipo fetches (and Kurucs), getting outside of the tax, over Simmons, Thybulle, and less draft assets (I don't think Morey offered even close to what BKN gave there)

And that's obviously the right call, which rebuilding team in their right minds wants Simmons on a max over draft assets?

Actually they don't want levert salary more then anything trading for Oladipo accomplishes two things one it's a win now move with a win now roster and two his expiring allows them to clear space next season.

But if Simmons was viewed as a young star you don't think they would have moved other pieces and made it work? The problem is he isn't anymore. Simmons stans need a reality check this is his value around the league and it's a wakeup call I know it was for me. They'd rather have a bunch of late round picks and pick swaps which probably will amount to nothing then Simmons+. It is what it is folks.

Simmons is not viewed as a major asset by other GM's anymore. So all this talk about pivoting to other players is noise and maybe all this talk about us "being happy with Simmons" is more of us being stuck with him moving forward then anything else.

You're going way overboard (just like your namesake has lately).

I think the shine has come off and he's not worth what we originally thought, but he's absolutely still viewed as a major asset. It's not like the Rockets were willing to discuss a deal without him.

It's also not a perfect measuring stick to compare what Harden was dealt for (by the way, those picks that are more than 2 years out are absolutely nothing to scoff at...). Seems more like a matter of the Nets willing to give on every single demand of the Rockets while Morey pushed back.

[spikeslovechild]

They didn't want just expirings lol, they are gonna get more for Oladipo at the deadline than LeVert would fetch (Oladipo has suitors and there is no free agency really, so teams will give up assets to get him early) and they also managed to get below the tax

That's all calculated

It boiled down to preferring 8 draft assets, plus potentially what Oladipo fetches (and Kurucs), getting outside of the tax, over Simmons, Thybulle, and less draft assets (I don't think Morey offered even close to what BKN gave there)

And that's obviously the right call, which rebuilding team in their right minds wants Simmons on a max over draft assets?

Actually they don't want levert salary more then anything trading for Oladipo accomplishes two things one it's a win now move with a win now roster and two his expiring allows them to clear space next season.

But if Simmons was viewed as a young star you don't think they would have moved other pieces and made it work? The problem is he isn't anymore. Simmons stans need a reality check this is his value around the league and it's a wakeup call I know it was for me. They'd rather have a bunch of late round picks and pick swaps which probably will amount to nothing then Simmons+. It is what it is folks.

Simmons is not viewed as a major asset by other GM's anymore. So all this talk about pivoting to other players is noise and maybe all this talk about us "being happy with Simmons" is more of us being stuck with him moving forward then anything else.

You're going way overboard (just like your namesake has lately).

I think the shine has come off and he's not worth what we originally thought, but he's absolutely still viewed as a major asset. It's not like the Rockets were willing to discuss a deal without him.

It's also not a perfect measuring stick to compare what Harden was dealt for (by the way, those picks that are more than 2 years out are absolutely nothing to scoff at...). Seems more like a matter of the Nets willing to give on every single demand of the Rockets while Morey pushed back.

I scoff at them because we also reported to have offered way down the line future 1st round picks.

So I doubt that is what moved the needle. They just didn't value Simmons and didn't think they could get what they got from the Nets in a 3team deal if people don't think that is eye opening then whatever but it was to me.

[Eyeamok]

I do not think he has a poor work ethic.

You could be right but the guy has not improved since high school that tells me he’s not working on his game. There’s nothing he does better now than he did the first day he stepped on NBA court. So he goes out and shoots a half hour a day and has someone record the shots that go in. That’s not work.

what ya gonna do if you cant improve but trying hard? for some people its impossible to shoot free throws...they are pros and some of them just cant improve. they do nothing but try to improve but still cant. i never played organized basketball and still can hit 70% from the line even when not touching a bball for 8 months. something is wrong with their hand/eye/muscle coordination and lack of touch. whatever it is, ben will never learn to shoot, just like shaq and many others

Wait What !!! We can send a man to the moon unlock the mysteries of the atom, but we can't teach a basketball player how to shoot free throws or just shoot better? Amazing. Mind officially blown.

[youngcrev]

Actually they don't want levert salary more then anything trading for Oladipo accomplishes two things one it's a win now move with a win now roster and two his expiring allows them to clear space next season.

But if Simmons was viewed as a young star you don't think they would have moved other pieces and made it work? The problem is he isn't anymore. Simmons stans need a reality check this is his value around the league and it's a wakeup call I know it was for me. They'd rather have a bunch of late round picks and pick swaps which probably will amount to nothing then Simmons+. It is what it is folks.

Simmons is not viewed as a major asset by other GM's anymore. So all this talk about pivoting to other players is noise and maybe all this talk about us "being happy with Simmons" is more of us being stuck with him moving forward then anything else.

You're going way overboard (just like your namesake has lately).

I think the shine has come off and he's not worth what we originally thought, but he's absolutely still viewed as a major asset. It's not like the Rockets were willing to discuss a deal without him.

It's also not a perfect measuring stick to compare what Harden was dealt for (by the way, those picks that are more than 2 years out are absolutely nothing to scoff at...). Seems more like a matter of the Nets willing to give on every single demand of the Rockets while Morey pushed back.

I scoff at them because we also reported to have offered way down the line future 1st round picks.

So I doubt that is what moved the needle. They just didn't value Simmons and didn't think they could get what they got from the Nets in a 3team deal if people don't think that is eye opening then whatever but it was to me.

Reports have varied on the picks offered, and none I've seen have been remotely close to the pick package the Nets gave up. 3 unprotected + 4 unprotected swaps + more from Cleveland via the Jarrett Allen swap. Plus a pretty good player in LeVert. They basically said take everything we could possibly give you outside of KD/Kyrie (and the Kyrie part isn't even clear).

Meanwhile you had Marc Stein reporting the Sixers were holding back on including Maxey in a package.

The other factor is this: trade values aren't universal. Clearly the Rockets also didn't value LeVert or Allen as highly as other teams.

[Eyeamok]

If Ben does not have a physical defect, then his shooting problems are all mental/ego. Ego being he does not want to look bad. He may hit a 1000 shots in a row in practice, but if he is not willing to shoot and risk missing in a real game then all the practice means naught.

He needs to get comfortable with looking bad shooting before he can look good shooting.

[BigSleep333]

You could be right but the guy has not improved since high school that tells me he’s not working on his game. There’s nothing he does better now than he did the first day he stepped on NBA court. So he goes out and shoots a half hour a day and has someone record the shots that go in. That’s not work.

what ya gonna do if you cant improve but trying hard? for some people its impossible to shoot free throws...they are pros and some of them just cant improve. they do nothing but try to improve but still cant. i never played organized basketball and still can hit 70% from the line even when not touching a bball for 8 months. something is wrong with their hand/eye/muscle coordination and lack of touch. whatever it is, ben will never learn to shoot, just like shaq and many others

Wait What !!! We can send a man to the moon unlock the mysteries of the atom, but we can't teach a basketball player how to shoot free throws or just shoot better? Amazing. Mind officially blown.

would we ever have sent a man to the moon if charles barkley would be the mastermind behind all the technology?

[Eyeamok]

what ya gonna do if you cant improve but trying hard? for some people its impossible to shoot free throws...they are pros and some of them just cant improve. they do nothing but try to improve but still cant. i never played organized basketball and still can hit 70% from the line even when not touching a bball for 8 months. something is wrong with their hand/eye/muscle coordination and lack of touch. whatever it is, ben will never learn to shoot, just like shaq and many others

Wait What !!! We can send a man to the moon unlock the mysteries of the atom, but we can't teach a basketball player how to shoot free throws or just shoot better? Amazing. Mind officially blown.

would we ever have sent a man to the moon if charles barkley would be the mastermind behind all the technology?

The short answer: Absolutely not.
The Long answer: Absolutely not.

[BigSleep333]

Wait What !!! We can send a man to the moon unlock the mysteries of the atom, but we can't teach a basketball player how to shoot free throws or just shoot better? Amazing. Mind officially blown.

would we ever have sent a man to the moon if charles barkley would be the mastermind behind all the technology?

The short answer: Absolutely not.
The Long answer: Absolutely not.

see...the same answers are valid to the question if ben simmons will learn to shoot

[Eyeamok]

would we ever have sent a man to the moon if charles barkley would be the mastermind behind all the technology?

The short answer: Absolutely not.
The Long answer: Absolutely not.

see...the same answers are valid to the question if ben simmons will learn to shoot

You know Charles Barkley is a finished product,,,,and even as a finished product he learned a new trick when it came to golf. And that was how not to suck so badly at it.

Ben can learn to do the same thing. Not suck so badly at shooting, but he has got to work on it and not lose any of the other attributes that make him special. Perhaps being almost traded will light a fire under him. Who know ! But if Rajon Rondo could/can get better at shooting, why not Ben Simmons too ?

[SixthStreet]

This has become an interesting roster building question now. I was hopeful Simmons would get his FTr up this year but he still has no natural touch as a finisher at the rim and is a finesse player there who goes out of his way to avoid contact. I consider him a finished product with no upside to tap into. He's still an incredibly valuable player and likely still worth his max contract. There is also now a legitimate pathway where he could be the second best player on the team (on overall impact) but can be the 4th or 5th scoring option on the team after Embiid, Maxey, Harris, and Milton.

It will require taking the ball out of his hands and draw a hard line with him on being "Point Anything" so he will have hurt feelings.

But the other end of the equation is that I feel we are close to the tipping point where he's going to have rapidly descending perceived value around the league and if Morey has intentions of capitalizing on his asset value, he's going to have to move him before he can evaluate what exactly Milton and Maxey can offer offensively in high stakes playoff basketball. I think the deadline this year will be the last time Morey will be able to get massive value back for him. Absent an Embiid injury, you also don't have the ability to showcase him to pump up his value.

I wouldn't want to be Morey right now, but that's why he's paid the big bucks.

[kuclas]

Trading Ben plus Maxey plus thybulle plus picks or whatever would have been crazy. Both maxey and thybulle on rookie cheap contracts. So Houston likely doesn’t dump maxey/thybulle.

Nets don’t want to pay Jarrett Allen 4/100 or whatever he thinks he deserves next year. So he was totally expendable (even though he plays well in net system). So Nets trading Allen when he may not be part of their plans next season due to salary was easy call.

Simmons is a way better player than anyone else involved in the trade

In the end. Houston pivoted from wanting a young star player tied to long term contract (Simmons) to just salary dumping and rebuilding and counting on imploding nets after 2021-2022 season

I’d said time and time again. If harden would have agreed to a 2 year extension (meaning 3 guarantee years of harden) I would have made Simmons plus picks available. As it stands. You got 1.5 years of harden. Not enough time to throw the kitchen sink to trade for him.

If Simmons were on similar 2 year contract I would have also traded Simmons.

[Btothenelly]

There’s no way Maxey would have been in the deal and Pompey made that clear. It was Ben, thybulle, and x picks....would have been a great deal for us, but whatever. I’ll get over it eventually. I still enjoy watching Simmons. The idea of pairing James and Joel was just a once in 15 year type possibility.