Fantasy Trade Thread 2019-2020 Post Season

skulky · Post #1381 » by **skulky** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 6:44 pm

My stating Tobias is a decent pick and roll player is not advocating or suggesting we run the offense through him. It’s just an option and something he’s capable of and not being asked to do here.

Brown primarily used him as a spot up shooter or he’d get the ball late in the clock in iso. And in the Boston series it’d be like ok here you go 5-6 seconds left on the clock going up against brown, smart, or Tatum and Harris does not have the first step to beat any of those guys off the dribble. How many possessions ended with Harris or Josh Richardson having to jack up a shot with shot clock expiring and Boston player all over them.

Harris should be a 3rd or 4th option. Him being able to be a part of a pick and roll and get to his spots and make efficient mid range shots will be helpful in the playoffs as a wrinkle and layer to our offense. Making the team less predictable like Milwaukee. Especially if he’s playing the 4 and more likely getting a mismatch vs playing the 3 where he is the mismatch.

I like Tobias the person/man really likes how he carries himself and his article in the players tribune in June and him at the blm March with the other players and brand was a proud moment for the team. He’s not a bad player, the contract is terrible, the trade was just as bad. I think a better coach and lineup he will be more useful, because I don’t think we can move him right now.

DT RAW · Post #1382 » by **DT RAW** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 6:58 pm

what are people's thoughts on the plans I mentioned earlier? :

Horford and jrich for barnes and heild interests me a lot tbh

Only negative in this is it keeps simmons as PG when he cant create but it atleast spreads the floor and allows tobias to be the 4.

Would absolutely need to get a vet PG with the MLE like teague. Someone that can drive into the paint and hit open 3s.

Play simmons as the backup 5 so he isnt hogging all the PG duties. Something like 16 of his min at center behind embiid and his other 18 min at PG and leaves 30 minutes for a real half court PG.

Man idk if detroit would come off rose but getting rose for that 26 to 30 mpg at pg off the bench would be great

Trade picks to detroit for rose? Picks and scott maybe?

Embiid(33)/simmons(15)
Harris(34)/Barnes(14)
Barnes(18)/thybulle(24)/shake(6)
Heild(33)/shake(15)
Simmons(19)/Rose(29)

Thats a nice 8 man playoff rotation with a lot of shooting and shot creating fixed with rose.

Might be pretty realistic too

youngcrev · Post #1383 » by **youngcrev** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 7:00 pm

Tobias is what he is, a new coach isn't going to change that. I think he's fine as a starting forward with Ben and Jo, he's just overpaid to the extent that it cripples our cap and makes filling the needs of the team much more difficult. If he was making the amount he should (about 20M per) he'd be a great piece to have.

DT RAW · Post #1384 » by **DT RAW** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 7:09 pm

Tobias is overpaid, but he fits on this team better than horford, is still young, plays a lot of minutes and almost never misses games. He was stuck out of position all year, if we full time him at the 4, he can be better.

we need to use horford and jrich to get catch and shoot 3 point makers like heild and barnes, make a trade or use MLE for a PG who can penetrate the defense and hit 3s.

I'd love to trade for Drose, it might cost a 1st rounder, but honestly, I'd do it. Rose was REALLY good last year

skulky · Post #1385 » by **skulky** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 7:09 pm

DT RAW wrote:what are people's thoughts on the plans I mentioned earlier? :

Horford and jrich for barnes and heild interests me a lot tbh

Only negative in this is it keeps simmons as PG when he cant create but it atleast spreads the floor and allows tobias to be the 4.

Would absolutely need to get a vet PG with the MLE like teague. Someone that can drive into the paint and hit open 3s.

Play simmons as the backup 5 so he isnt hogging all the PG duties. Something like 16 of his min at center behind embiid and his other 18 min at PG and leaves 30 minutes for a real half court PG.

Man idk if detroit would come off rose but getting rose for that 26 to 30 mpg at pg off the bench would be great

Trade picks to detroit for rose? Picks and scott maybe?

Embiid(33)/simmons(15)
Harris(34)/Barnes(14)
Barnes(18)/thybulle(24)/shake(6)
Heild(33)/shake(15)
Simmons(19)/Rose(29)

Thats a nice 8 man playoff rotation with a lot of shooting and shot creating fixed with rose.

Might be pretty realistic too

I think it’s realistic and decent return, but have also seen similar deals with Harris, but I guess comes down to what Sacramento prefers.
I think our options are limited to only a few teams: Chicago, Cleveland, the Knicks, and Charlotte.

Horford and sweetener to Charlotte helps both. I know hield shoots it great but little else. Rozier is a decent shooter, also a good point of attack defender, just not greatest point guard. Zeller is a good backup center. Also having those 2 contracts opens up a lot more trade options if combined with Mike Scott or Josh Richardson. I honestly don’t know enough about Harrison Barnes at this point and how bad it would be taking on his contract. He’s always seemed pretty average/underwhelming to me.

VDT · Post #1386 » by **VDT** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 7:13 pm

Arsenal wrote:
VDT wrote:Harris should be a 3rd/4th option and most of his shots should be assisted. I dont think he wants to be that but maybe his more willing now that he got paid.

Beyond that the Sixers need a perimeter player to make plays, and create for others. Without that, getting more shooters doesn't make sense.

Harris is turrible at playing off others. Witness his atrocious performance on catch and shoots in the playoffs (and in season too). He's an atrocious fit with Embiid and Simmons for that reason alone.

The main issue is that he is not willing to play like that. It makes sense since roleplayers get less money and he is still young enough that maybe his role on the team is more important than winning. It is a possibility however that now that he got his money he is willing to take a more auxiliary role. It shouldnt be that hard to make him more of a catch and shoot player (he shot 38.5% from 3 last year as a catch and shoot shooter) if he is willing to make the change. This would be even easier if the team had enough offensive talent to push him to the 3/4 option. Right now it is hard to justify Simmons or Richardson having more shot attempts in the half court.

That's the reason i prefer to move Horford. He has no role on this team although he is still a good player. Harris could potentially have some uses even though overpaid.

DT RAW · Post #1387 » by **DT RAW** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 7:35 pm

skulky wrote:
DT RAW wrote:what are people's thoughts on the plans I mentioned earlier? :

Horford and jrich for barnes and heild interests me a lot tbh

Only negative in this is it keeps simmons as PG when he cant create but it atleast spreads the floor and allows tobias to be the 4.

Would absolutely need to get a vet PG with the MLE like teague. Someone that can drive into the paint and hit open 3s.

Play simmons as the backup 5 so he isnt hogging all the PG duties. Something like 16 of his min at center behind embiid and his other 18 min at PG and leaves 30 minutes for a real half court PG.

Man idk if detroit would come off rose but getting rose for that 26 to 30 mpg at pg off the bench would be great

Trade picks to detroit for rose? Picks and scott maybe?

Embiid(33)/simmons(15)
Harris(34)/Barnes(14)
Barnes(18)/thybulle(24)/shake(6)
Heild(33)/shake(15)
Simmons(19)/Rose(29)

Thats a nice 8 man playoff rotation with a lot of shooting and shot creating fixed with rose.

Might be pretty realistic too

I think it’s realistic and decent return, but have also seen similar deals with Harris, but I guess comes down to what Sacramento prefers.
I think our options are limited to only a few teams: Chicago, Cleveland, the Knicks, and Charlotte.

Horford and sweetener to Charlotte helps both. I know hield shoots it great but little else. Rozier is a decent shooter, also a good point of attack defender, just not greatest point guard. Zeller is a good backup center. Also having those 2 contracts opens up a lot more trade options if combined with Mike Scott or Josh Richardson. I honestly don’t know enough about Harrison Barnes at this point and how bad it would be taking on his contract. He’s always seemed pretty average/underwhelming to me.

I think the kinds are also a good trade partner.

I believe Barnes' contract amount goes down each year. Ya, last year of his deal is for 18 mill. Somehow he is only 27 still. A solid 3 point shooter. Obviously he is far from great, but we are trying to get better fitting players in here.

Kobblehead · Post #1388 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 7:37 pm

skulky wrote:He’s not a bad player

He kinda is, though, when you consider a playoff setting.

He's a terrible defensive player. He can't score off the dribble, either. So his only function is to be a stretch four (which is a subpar playoff asset). And when his shot isn't falling, he's literally useless.

Kobblehead · Post #1389 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 7:55 pm

DT RAW wrote:what are people's thoughts on the plans I mentioned earlier?

Regular season team that would be the worst group we've brought to the playoffs yet.

The entire rotation of wings is filled with garbage defenders, sans Thybulle and Simmons. With Rose as the lone player on the roster capable of scoring off the dribble. And you left us without a backup C so I guess we'll be signing Amir Johnson or Greg Monroe off the streets in May to be Embiid's backup for the playoffs.

No way am I giving up picks for an expiring Rose, btw. Last year's deadline was the only time that was feasible and his injury blew that opportunity for the Pistons.

ProcessDoctor · Post #1390 » by **ProcessDoctor** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 8:11 pm

I think Sacramento would be more interested in Harris than Horford. That much I’ve established with their fans lol. Otherwise they’re asking for the moon in a Hield/Barnes trade even if JRich is involved.

ProcessDoctor · Post #1391 » by **ProcessDoctor** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 8:12 pm

Holiday, Paul, or Wall (in that order). You then fill in the pieces around that PG/Thybulle/Simmons/Embiid.

DT RAW · Post #1392 » by **DT RAW** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 8:18 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
DT RAW wrote:what are people's thoughts on the plans I mentioned earlier?

Regular season team that would be the worst group we've brought to the playoffs yet.

The entire rotation of wings is filled with garbage defenders, sans Thybulle and Simmons. With Rose as the lone player on the roster capable of scoring off the dribble. And you left us without a backup C so I guess we'll be signing Amir Johnson or Greg Monroe off the streets in May to be Embiid's backup for the playoffs.

No way am I giving up picks for an expiring Rose, btw. Last year's deadline was the only time that was feasible and his injury blew that opportunity for the Pistons.

I listed 8 players.. there will be 4 others to fill in other roles. Dont need a backup center, we have simmons, who is a center in todays nba

you continue to ignore that. We had the best backup center in the league this year, how'd that go for us?

that team is absolutely better than the team we brought to the playoffs this year

Kobblehead · Post #1393 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 8:38 pm

Jrue is going to cost a lot to acquire and we'd have to commit to a full 5 year max to get him to even think about staying (word is, he has his eyes set on Miami with Butler next summer).

Paul also will cost draft capital (and probably Thybulle, too).

That's why I like the Wall proposal. We get to dump an albatross and probably not surrender any draft capital, given the status of Wall's health.

DT RAW · Post #1394 » by **DT RAW** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 9:16 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Jrue is going to cost a lot to acquire and we'd have to commit to a full 5 year max to get him to even think about staying (word is, he has his eyes set on Miami with Butler next summer).

Paul also will cost draft capital (and probably Thybulle, too).

That's why I like the Wall proposal. We get to dump an albatross and probably not surrender any draft capital, given the status of Wall's health.

I think its arguable that Drose is just as good or better than Wall this coming year, rather go that route

ExplosionsInDaSky · Post #1395 » by **ExplosionsInDaSky** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 9:44 pm

Trading for Wall would allow us to rid ourselves of Tobias Harris. Trading for Rose would require us moving Mike Scott and probably a young player (ZSMith) along with a draft pick. I'm not totally sold on the idea of John Wall here in Philly. It's a shame he got injured. I do agree with DT Raw that Rose is probably a better player at this point in time, but we'd still be stuck with Harris and the whole idea of getting Wall is to get a player that fits, and rids of us the Harris Albatross a year earlier.

51X3RF4N · Post #1396 » by **51X3RF4N** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 9:47 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Jrue is going to cost a lot to acquire and we'd have to commit to a full 5 year max to get him to even think about staying (word is, he has his eyes set on Miami with Butler next summer).

Paul also will cost draft capital (and probably Thybulle, too).

That's why I like the Wall proposal. We get to dump an albatross and probably not surrender any draft capital, given the status of Wall's health.

I like the idea of Wall. If he's as good as he once was, and you give up Harris and Richardson for him, then you win the trade 10x over. Even with the sketchy fit with Ben, it gives you a guy who fits with Embiid in a 2 man game that would be hard to stop. And it gives you a killer instinct on offense in the half court in crunch time.

Maybe Ben gets put on the market?

If Cleveland is serious about putting together an offer, you could start with Garland, Love, Osman and #5. Send out Scott and Zhaire in the 2 deals to save some more money.

Osman fits as a catch and shoot SF who has some defensive ability and is super high IQ. And is on a great value contract for the duration of Wall's deal.

Love fits as a stretch 4 who can catch and shoot the ball very well. His contract also happens to align with Wall for 3 years, and Horford too. So there is your 3 year window.

If in 3 seasons you can win a championship with those guys, then they expire and a massive amount of cap space is free. Plus Embiid would be nearly 30 and it might be time to move on and do a full rebuild.

But, you'd end up with...

Embiid/Horford
Love
Osman/Korkmaz
Shake/Thybulle
Wall/Garland

Then you have youth with Shake/Osman/Garland/Thybulle/Korkmaz and the #5 and #21 picks. Take your pick of BPA at 5 and 21. A stretch 4 would be great and since it is still a win now type of team, maybe Toppin makes sense? He is a good insurance plan for Love. At 21 you can roll the dice and take any position. Maybe a young Center to develop?

Kobblehead · Post #1397 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 9:54 pm

I think Derrick Rose should be viewed as a buyout target as opposed to someone to actually trade for.

We can't keep burning draft picks on expiring contracts to help solve our shotcreation problems (Alec Burks).

Kobblehead · Post #1398 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 10:01 pm

I don't think any trade that we make would prompt us to put Simmons on the market.

I think fit is a myth. If the shotcreater we bring in can't space the floor, who cares, you know.

We almost beat the champs last year with a creator that can't space the floor in Jimmy Butler.

VDT · Post #1399 » by **VDT** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 10:13 pm

51X3RF4N wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:Jrue is going to cost a lot to acquire and we'd have to commit to a full 5 year max to get him to even think about staying (word is, he has his eyes set on Miami with Butler next summer).

Paul also will cost draft capital (and probably Thybulle, too).

That's why I like the Wall proposal. We get to dump an albatross and probably not surrender any draft capital, given the status of Wall's health.

I like the idea of Wall. If he's as good as he once was, and you give up Harris and Richardson for him, then you win the trade 10x over. Even with the sketchy fit with Ben, it gives you a guy who fits with Embiid in a 2 man game that would be hard to stop. And it gives you a killer instinct on offense in the half court in crunch time.

Maybe Ben gets put on the market?

If Cleveland is serious about putting together an offer, you could start with Garland, Love, Osman and #5. Send out Scott and Zhaire in the 2 deals to save some more money.

Osman fits as a catch and shoot SF who has some defensive ability and is super high IQ. And is on a great value contract for the duration of Wall's deal.

Love fits as a stretch 4 who can catch and shoot the ball very well. His contract also happens to align with Wall for 3 years, and Horford too. So there is your 3 year window.

If in 3 seasons you can win a championship with those guys, then they expire and a massive amount of cap space is free. Plus Embiid would be nearly 30 and it might be time to move on and do a full rebuild.

But, you'd end up with...

Embiid/Horford
Love
Osman/Korkmaz
Shake/Thybulle
Wall/Garland

Then you have youth with Shake/Osman/Garland/Thybulle/Korkmaz and the #5 and #21 picks. Take your pick of BPA at 5 and 21. A stretch 4 would be great and since it is still a win now type of team, maybe Toppin makes sense? He is a good insurance plan for Love. At 21 you can roll the dice and take any position. Maybe a young Center to develop?

This team goes nowhere and Embiid asks out by the trade deadline.

There is no trade that will solve everything. First priority is to stop making bad moves and taking silly chances. Like last summer that people wanted to sign whoever we could because it was the last year with cap space. Making a bad move is always worse than making no move.

First you look for major trades. Can you get Harden, for example, with Simmons? If yes you do it and build accordingly.

If not you try to trade Horford, who has no role here, for a perimeter player. If you can get Paul for Horford+ pick(s) you do it. There is no risk really. If not you try something else. Hield is overpaid and not very useful but balances the roster a bit. I wouldnt mind that.

If there is no trade for Horford you bench him and try to make small improvement on the roster, diamonds in the rough, underused players with some potential. We need wing defenders and players that can drive to the basket and playmake a bit.

Even with no major trade, we will be better and hopefully increase the trade value of our players for the 2021 offseason. Ultimately, i think we will have to trade one of Embiid and Simmons (probably Simmons) to acquire a perimeter star.

Kobblehead · Post #1400 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Sep 7, 2020 10:16 pm

ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:I do agree with DT Raw that Rose is probably a better player at this point in time

I'm still not willing to agree with people about that.

Rose is one of the worst defensive guards in the league. Wall was one of the best the last time we saw him.

Why should I believe that an achilles injury is going to rob Wall of his defense? Our own GM was still a defensive monster post-Achilles.