Poll: Who do you want with #3? (VOTE AGAIN)

[SparksFly87]

I think Mudiay will be a very, very good point guard. However, I don't think he's on the same athletic level of Wall, Westbrook, and Rose.

What Russell possesses is quite impressive and makes up for his lack of athleticism. My main concern for Russell is him putting on weight, which will translate to finishing through contact. Oh yea, and finishing with his right hand. That can be fixed, but he will have to put in the work. I would like to put a ball handler in the backcourt with him if he were to come here. I honestly wouldn't hate it if we traded back into this draft and grabbed Stanley Johnson.

Russell has already bulked up considerably as the season progress . He has a nice frame to add muscle and strength. Wroten has become on the best finishers in the league only finishing with his left. Ginobili and harden still mainly finish with their left. Russell will be fine.

Okay, but Russell doesn't finish well at the rim despite considerable bulking up and only finishing with his left hand.

At least he can make his "free " throws .

[Agnostifarian]

Muiday is definitely a point guard. Despite his ball handling, terrific shooting and gifted passing ability, Russell is more of a combo guard and secondary ball handler, IMO. I think you guys have hashed out the offensive strengths and weaknesses of both players but Muiday should be a much better defender, IMO. I don't think any of us expect either of these players to excel in the NBA for at least a couple of years.

Most everyone seems to agree that point guard is the most stacked position in the NBA. Also, I think that having the right point guard to fit your style of play is critical. Perhaps, our first big splash in free agency should be on a veteran point guard who can orchestrate our offense.

If Sam is making a choice between Russell and Muiday, I'm sure he'll choose player with the highest upside. I'm not sure either one has a higher ceiling than Winslow or Hezonja.

[76ciology]

If Sam is making a choice between Russell and Muiday, I'm sure he'll choose player with the highest upside. I'm not sure either one has a higher ceiling than Winslow or Hezonja.

May I know why you think Winslow and Hezonja has higher upside than both these PGs?

I like Winslow but I don't think he's top 3 pick worthy because of his limitations on offense.

Hezonja is overrated for me, he's all flash with no substance. His numbers are poor even in per 36 mins (below 14 PER). Hezonja's value lies in his scoring, not much of a good rebounder, facilitator or defender. But then his offense is limited to offballs and slight ball handling duties similar to Rudy Fernandez or Ben Mclemore.

Russell and Mudiay both got elite size and skillset for their position. Mudiay is said to have the highest upside in the draft as per Ford. I think Mudiay with a jumper would make him a very dynamic PG in the future.

[Unbreakable99]

I'm still undecided on Russell and Mudiay. I think Russell would be great on the pick and roll. Russell has great court vision. Russell's man can't sag off of him on pick and roll and go underneath the pick. Russell's man can't double team off of him. Russell isn't great on defense though. Russell isn't the best ball handler. Russell doesn't drive as well.

Mudiay may be a taller Ish Smith and get to the lane. Penetration within an offense helps it run so much better. If you can pull other players to the lane when you penetrate then you will have lots of open player to pass it too. Mudiay's man will go underneath the pick though and sag off of him.

[LloydFree]

If Sam is making a choice between Russell and Muiday, I'm sure he'll choose player with the highest upside. I'm not sure either one has a higher ceiling than Winslow or Hezonja.

May I know why you think Winslow and Hezonja has higher upside than both these PGs?

I like Winslow but I don't think he's top 3 pick worthy because of his limitations on offense.

Hezonja is overrated for me, he's all flash with no substance. His numbers are poor even in per 36 mins (below 14 PER). Hezonja's value lies in his scoring, not much of a good rebounder, facilitator or defender. But then his offense is limited to offballs and slight ball handling duties similar to Rudy Fernandez or Ben Mclemore.

Russell and Mudiay both got elite size and skillset for their position. Mudiay is said to have the highest upside in the draft as per Ford. I think Mudiay with a jumper would make him a very dynamic PG in the future.

And his scoring is sporadic at best. Henzonja has (62) 3 pointers on the season, and 26 of them came in 5 games. He has 40 games with one (1) or zero 3 pointers. I've never seen so much conversation about a player (outside of Zach Lavine) who barely plays and doesn't do much when he does play.
http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Mario-Hezonja/GameLogs/24763/All

[Agnostifarian]

If Sam is making a choice between Russell and Muiday, I'm sure he'll choose player with the highest upside. I'm not sure either one has a higher ceiling than Winslow or Hezonja.

May I know why you think Winslow and Hezonja has higher upside than both these PGs?

I like Winslow but I don't think he's top 3 pick worthy because of his limitations on offense.

Hezonja is overrated for me, he's all flash with no substance. His numbers are poor even in per 36 mins (below 14 PER). Hezonja's value lies in his scoring, not much of a good rebounder, facilitator or defender. But then his offense is limited to offballs and slight ball handling duties similar to Rudy Fernandez or Ben Mclemore.

Russell and Mudiay both got elite size and skillset for their position. Mudiay is said to have the highest upside in the draft as per Ford. I think Mudiay with a jumper would make him a very dynamic PG in the future.

With respect to Winslow, his jump shot is streaky and he can get out of control when driving to the basket. However, he makes dynamic plays all over the court, especially on defense. I think he can guard three positions and he's built like a brick **** house at 18 years of age. He plays above the rim. Like Muiday, Winslow is a jumpshot away from having an All-Star ceiling, IMO.

I can't and won't defend Hezonja or Porzingas, for that matter. I have no idea how the Philly organization projects those players five years out. However, when Sam Hinkie picks BPA in June, I won't be disappointed if it isn't a point guard. The bigger point I'm trying to make is that we should have plenty of opportunities to find an excellent point guard through free agency since the position is "stacked."

[Mik317]

The Spurs and Hawks are teams to look to to see what kind of PG the system needs (I'm guessing Brett will try to run Pops system once we are done).

Teague and Parker (and for the second team Schroeder (SP) and Ginolbli)...all of those guys can hit the jumper but are more known for their ability to get to the rack.

That should be the kinda guys we should be looking for.

MCW lack of a jumper hurt us but it was also his lack of will to get to the rim and finish at times. He could get there but it never seemed to come in the flow of the offense. Wroten ironically is the best fit out of all these guys in that regard and he can get to the rim and doesn't take a lot of time to do so...he is just too out of control tho.

It is very possible that Hinkie could take another dude and get his PG elsewhere too (hell by getting owned in the lottery this may happen anyway)

[LongLiveHinkie]

Fundamentally, I agree. In the NBA it all starts with penetration. You can load a starting 5 full of shooters, but if none of them is a threat to drive, those are the teams that typically "die by the 3" because you can scheme them much easier. Every deep playoff run caliber team needs at least one guy(and maybe more) that can face up and take defenders off the dribble and get to the rack to create.

Mudiay is more that than Russell IMO. Problem is, when that guy who can drive also can't shoot, that causes a problem also. Mudiay's jumper from what I've seen of him just looks really bad at times. It's just awkward. Gotta be able to knock down open shots in the NBA.

That's why it's a tough call IMO.

[Mik317]

If Russell can get in the paint, then it's not a problem. He doesn't need to be DRose good...he just can't be Canaan. Going back to the awful Turner comp...even Turner could get in the paint with his plodding feet (couldn't finish but..he could get there lol). Russell's jumper will open up driving lanes due to dudes playing off of him.

If Mudiay gets a jumper, then its gravy.

Both of these things are equal unknowns ATM so it is still a toss up. Workouts and such will be big. But I doubt either play against anyone soooooo.

[LloydFree]

Fundamentally, I agree. In the NBA it all starts with penetration. You can load a starting 5 full of shooters, but if none of them is a threat to drive, those are the teams that typically "die by the 3" because you can scheme them much easier. Every deep playoff run caliber team needs at least one guy(and maybe more) that can face up and take defenders off the dribble and get to the rack to create.

Mudiay is more that than Russell IMO. Problem is, when that guy who can drive also can't shoot, that causes a problem also. Mudiay's jumper from what I've seen of him just looks really bad at times. It's just awkward. Gotta be able to knock down open shots in the NBA.

That's why it's a tough call IMO.

You are right. Every team needs a player that can penetrate and take his man off the dribble, but it doesn't have to be the PG. The Bulls, Lakers and Heat didn't have PGs that did that. And again, Sam Cassell (Houston, Milwaukee) was no more a physical penetrating PG than Russell, but his teams won.

[LongLiveHinkie]

Fundamentally, I agree. In the NBA it all starts with penetration. You can load a starting 5 full of shooters, but if none of them is a threat to drive, those are the teams that typically "die by the 3" because you can scheme them much easier. Every deep playoff run caliber team needs at least one guy(and maybe more) that can face up and take defenders off the dribble and get to the rack to create.

Mudiay is more that than Russell IMO. Problem is, when that guy who can drive also can't shoot, that causes a problem also. Mudiay's jumper from what I've seen of him just looks really bad at times. It's just awkward. Gotta be able to knock down open shots in the NBA.

That's why it's a tough call IMO.

You are right. Every team needs a player that can penetrate and take his man off the dribble, but it doesn't have to be the PG. The Bulls, Lakers and Heat didn't have that. And again, Sam Cassell was no more a physical penetrating PG than Russell, but his teams won.

You are right, it doesn't have to be the PG. But the fact is, you want that skill set on your team and Mudiay has it. So if you want to take care of that aspect now, you can address it in the draft with Mudiay.

[Unbreakable99]

At least when Embiid is double teamed Russell's man has to stick to him. You can sag off Mudiay and help defend Embiid. A guy like Mike Conley is pretty quick but nothing like Rose or Westbrook. He can hit a jump shot though. Derek Fisher wasn't the quickest PG but he could hit a jump shot. When Shaq got doubled Fisher was always there open to hit a 3.

[LloydFree]

Fundamentally, I agree. In the NBA it all starts with penetration. You can load a starting 5 full of shooters, but if none of them is a threat to drive, those are the teams that typically "die by the 3" because you can scheme them much easier. Every deep playoff run caliber team needs at least one guy(and maybe more) that can face up and take defenders off the dribble and get to the rack to create.

Mudiay is more that than Russell IMO. Problem is, when that guy who can drive also can't shoot, that causes a problem also. Mudiay's jumper from what I've seen of him just looks really bad at times. It's just awkward. Gotta be able to knock down open shots in the NBA.

That's why it's a tough call IMO.

You are right. Every team needs a player that can penetrate and take his man off the dribble, but it doesn't have to be the PG. The Bulls, Lakers and Heat didn't have that. And again, Sam Cassell was no more a physical penetrating PG than Russell, but his teams won.

You are right, it doesn't have to be the PG. But the fact is, you want that skill set on your team and Mudiay has it. So if you want to take care of that aspect now, you can address it in the draft with Mudiay.

But the thing is you don't have to play Russell at PG. He could be just as effective, if not more, playing SG. Having a guard that can do both may be more valuable since good SGs are a rarity. As for the penetrating PG: The league is overloaded with that, and you don't have to draft it with a top 3 pick in order to get a good one.

[LongLiveHinkie]

You are right. Every team needs a player that can penetrate and take his man off the dribble, but it doesn't have to be the PG. The Bulls, Lakers and Heat didn't have that. And again, Sam Cassell was no more a physical penetrating PG than Russell, but his teams won.

You are right, it doesn't have to be the PG. But the fact is, you want that skill set on your team and Mudiay has it. So if you want to take care of that aspect now, you can address it in the draft with Mudiay.

But the thing is you don't have to play Russell at PG. He could be just as effective, if not more, playing SG. Having a guard that can do both may be more valuable since good SGs are a rarity. As for the penetrating PG: The league is overloaded with that, and you don't have to draft it with a top 3 pick in order to get a good one.

I see where you are going, and I would typically agree with you, but I just have a hunch Russell won't be that good in the NBA, or not as good as people think he will be. I'm basing this off of nothing other than a hunch, I understand this. I'm not comparing their games, but I think Russell will end up being kind of like a Kemba Walker type in the NBA. A nice solid scoring guard, but not a cornerstone, and very much replaceable. Either that or he'll end up being a spark plug scoring 6th man type. I just get the feeling his jumper won't translate as well to the NBA as it did in college. Again, pure hunch.

I think Mudiay will be the better overall NBA player, but I do worry about his jumper I'm not gonna lie. All that said, I'd be fine with either. If they took Russell, I'd be cool with it.

[Unbreakable99]

Hinkie will end all debate and at 3 with Russell and Mudiay on the board take Winslow. Lol.

[LongLiveHinkie]

I would take Hezonja over Winslow, and I think Hinkie would too. He might take Porzingis over him too.

If they end up with any of the top 4, I will be fine with it. I'm not a huge Winslow fan, though. Not in the top 4 anyway.

[iMoreland]

My main fear with Mudiay is teams will treat him like they treat D-Rose and John Wall off the ball.

The plus with Russell is he's already a lights out shooter. That can give us options for others to be a ball handler, like Wroten.

A lineup of

Russell - off ball/in the corner
Wroten - driver/distributer
Thompson - on the wing
Covington - in the corner
Embiid/Noel - high/low post

That can be huge for us early in games to not rely too much on Russell's scoring. We can go to him late in games to get a bucket. Russell is always a threat to score when he's on the floor, on ball or off ball. Mudiay isn't.

Late in games we can run

Russell - main scorer
Thompson - wing/corner
Covington - wing/corner
Noel - defense
Embiid - low post

If we want Embiid to be out main scorer we can play a  D12/SVG style and surround him with shooters

Russell - anywhere behind 3pt line
Ish - anywhere behind 3pt line
Thompson - wing/corner
Covington - wing/corner
Embiid - low post

Then when Saric comes over and our 2016 draft pick(s) (Jaylen Brown I'm hoping for) we'll have more options

[SparksFly87]

You are right. Every team needs a player that can penetrate and take his man off the dribble, but it doesn't have to be the PG. The Bulls, Lakers and Heat didn't have that. And again, Sam Cassell was no more a physical penetrating PG than Russell, but his teams won.

You are right, it doesn't have to be the PG. But the fact is, you want that skill set on your team and Mudiay has it. So if you want to take care of that aspect now, you can address it in the draft with Mudiay.

But the thing is you don't have to play Russell at PG. He could be just as effective, if not more, playing SG. Having a guard that can do both may be more valuable since good SGs are a rarity. As for the penetrating PG: The league is overloaded with that, and you don't have to draft it with a top 3 pick in order to get a good one.

This !

[76ciology]

Hinkie will end all debate and at 3 with Russell and Mudiay on the board take Winslow. Lol.

I think if not Mudiay or Russell, Hinkie will go for Porzingis.

[76ciology]

Fundamentally, I agree. In the NBA it all starts with penetration. You can load a starting 5 full of shooters, but if none of them is a threat to drive, those are the teams that typically "die by the 3" because you can scheme them much easier. Every deep playoff run caliber team needs at least one guy(and maybe more) that can face up and take defenders off the dribble and get to the rack to create.

Mudiay is more that than Russell IMO. Problem is, when that guy who can drive also can't shoot, that causes a problem also. Mudiay's jumper from what I've seen of him just looks really bad at times. It's just awkward. Gotta be able to knock down open shots in the NBA.

That's why it's a tough call IMO.

You are right. Every team needs a player that can penetrate and take his man off the dribble, but it doesn't have to be the PG. The Bulls, Lakers and Heat didn't have PGs that did that. And again, Sam Cassell (Houston, Milwaukee) was no more a physical penetrating PG than Russell, but his teams won.

Checkout the talent at the SG/SF position to compensate for the PGs you named that lack ability to penetrate.