Joel Embiid

[mhunt]

any updates on embiid yet? i'm definitely not asking because i have tix to the atlanta game on the 21st.

[Lou_23]

any updates on embiid yet? i'm definitely not asking because i have tix to the atlanta game on the 21st.

Kyle Neubeck: Joel Embiid and Josh Richardson returned to practice, Richardson has cleared concussion protocol. Their statuses for tomorrow will be listed on tonight’s 5 pm injury report.

[mhunt]

any updates on embiid yet? i'm definitely not asking because i have tix to the atlanta game on the 21st.

Kyle Neubeck: Joel Embiid and Josh Richardson returned to practice, Richardson has cleared concussion protocol. Their statuses for tomorrow will be listed on tonight’s 5 pm injury report.

thanks, man.
who knows is they'll still be playing in front of crowds by then..but at least jo is close to returning.

[76thBearCub]

Not guna mess with a link on my phone but there's a cool article on the front page of espn right now. Sounds like he's taking charge. So lucky to have him and some still want to chase him off.

Sent from my LML212VL using RealGM mobile app

[TMU]

Sixers all-star Joel Embiid, along with the team’s managing partner Josh Harris, and co-managing partner David Blitzer, donated $1.3 million to Penn Medicine to establish a funding campaign for COVID-19 antibody testing to identify doctors and nurses with potential immunity.

Such generosity from the big fella.

[Hogified05]

I tell you what yall need to do. You need a coach with big enough balls to go against what the hell the league is doing with this small ball fast pace. Basketball is all about controlling the pace and I know the rules are slanted towards the guards and 3 point shooting now. But I think if you have a generational talent at center like Embiid is (or like Shaq, Ewing, Akeem etc) slowing the pace to a drag and dumping it down to Joel 50 times a game would still work.

The team and Joel would have to be disciplined to get on the block and control the pace but running into Giannis in the Playoffs would absolutely neuter him like the Raps did. The last 3 games of that Toronto series they allowed 102, 99 and 94 to the Bucks, they allowed 112 in game 4 but even that was with an OT. He lost his nerve when he had to create in the half court and the Bucks lost their swagger. Less possessions = more pressure on Giannis and his skill isnt there yet (might never be).

It's in direct contrast to how Simmons probably wants to play but maybe you get rid of him for someone who can play that way better. Or maybe he can be taught to control pace. But I'm telling you I'd tell Embiid you can't shoot a 3/outside shot until you get 20 touches in the paint then the rule resets again. I'd tell the team you aren't allowed to shoot unless it's under 10 seconds on the shot clock. Yall do that I think you would come out of the East.

[76ciology]

I tell you what yall need to do. You need a coach with big enough balls to go against what the hell the league is doing with this small ball fast pace. Basketball is all about controlling the pace and I know the rules are slanted towards the guards and 3 point shooting now. But I think if you have a generational talent at center like Embiid is (or like Shaq, Ewing, Akeem etc) slowing the pace to a drag and dumping it down to Joel 50 times a game would still work.

The team and Joel would have to be disciplined to get on the block and control the pace but running into Giannis in the Playoffs would absolutely neuter him like the Raps did. The last 3 games of that Toronto series they allowed 102, 99 and 94 to the Bucks, they allowed 112 in game 4 but even that was with an OT. He lost his nerve when he had to create in the half court and the Bucks lost their swagger. Less possessions = more pressure on Giannis and his skill isnt there yet (might never be).

It's in direct contrast to how Simmons probably wants to play but maybe you get rid of him for someone who can play that way better. Or maybe he can be taught to control pace. But I'm telling you I'd tell Embiid you can't shoot a 3/outside shot until you get 20 touches in the paint then the rule resets again. I'd tell the team you aren't allowed to shoot unless it's under 10 seconds on the shot clock. Yall do that I think you would come out of the East.

Or maybe...

Just find the right balance of a drive and dish offense with a bigger role for Ben and a post oriented offense with a bigger role for Biid. This is how the Spurs won it in 2014.

We can’t just dump the ball to Biid because of two things.. 1.) he is not as dominant as shaq or even Giannis is (check unassisted dunk numbers) 2.) playoffs allows guys to get physical at him that you can’t expect to get calls when guys grab you when you force it down low in the playoffs and specially on the crucial moments of the playoffs.

Whether you agree with this or not, this is the direction we’re going right now.

[phillynative]

The sixers F.O put a bunch of clunky pieces around joel that doesnt fit. It doesnt make any since. Hey lets draft a bunch of point guards who cant shoot. Lets draft 3 big men in the lottery in a row. Lets sign a hefty contract to another aging center and stick him right next to our budding superstar. The sixers just may have dropped the ball with this one.

[76ciology]

Too much time lead to a lot of thinking.

It’s not often that the teams with a center as their top player, wins the championship. Most times its a wing or a PF.

I was thinking about the reason why. I think its because most times the players at the center positions are exceptional defensive players. Most times they anchor the defense.

Embiid is a great player. But he is not that great enough to be a dominant center.

A good example of this was Dwight Howard. Dwight is undersized compared to godlike centers like shaq or wilt. He looked unstoppable against the bigs in the east like Al or Bosh. But when he faced the Lakers, he dwarfed against Bynum and the twin tower of Gasol and Bynum pretty much neutralized him.

I see that with Embiid. Against guys like Jarett Allen, he looked dominant. But against guys like Baynes and Gasol, he had a tough time bullying his way against them.

Most of you don’t agree with me on this but I can see our FO is also have the same thought. IMO to unlock Biid is for him to slide to the PF position, in this position he can be dominant.

Im not talking about him jacking up 3s like Matt Boner. But he can be at the post all the time posting against smaller defenders like Siakam or Giannis while Al pulls away their rim protector to space the floor for him.

This is why AD wanted to play PF with the Lakers. Not because he is not good enough, but because he is smart enough.

Why Pau was so good with Bynum, he was bullied by bigger centers.

Dwight almost slide to PF if only Fran Vasquez didnt got cold feet in playing in the league. Magic also tried to do this by trying out Darko.

And so forth..

“But you can’t do that because the opponents centers will just defend him”. It won’t. What Biid has to do is to defend opponents PF, and let Al defend the opponents centers. You then control the dynamic of the match-up game. Teams will risk getting crossmatch problems in transition if they insists to put their center on Biid.

“But Al and Biid don’t produce a deathball type 5man unit”. True. This is why I think we should have another 5 man unit that can play a deathball type basketball, depending on the match-up. BUT YOU START BOTH AL AND BIID TO CONTROL THE TABLE. This means Al and Biid dont necessarily have to play with one another to end games. We can run a small unit with Biid to end games like Milton, Josh Rich, Ben, Tobi and Biid. Or maybe even have Ben play 4 with Biid.

This is similar to how Spurs would pair TD with Splitter or Diaw, depending on the match-up.

This way you have weapons to counter whatever the opponents will hit you with. And you don’t have to live or die with Embiid, which has proven to be ineffective for the last two seasons.

[youngcrev]

The NBA is littered with dominant bigs winning titles throughout it's history, so I'm not sure where you're coming from. There's been a clear shift in the rules to benefit perimeter players more, so I don't think the answer is to put another center on the floor (which they've already done, and it's gone terribly).

As for the "forcing teams to put a PF on him" stuff, this isn't 2K. Teams aren't forced to do anything just because you label him something else. He defenderd Siakam most of that Toronto series. He defends Giannis every time we play him. Those guys don't defend him on the other end. And you're not going to create mismatch issues with how slow he is in transition. Regardless, putting him on 4s is really only a good strategy if they aren't perimeter based players. Putting him on those guys has more to do with just having him on a poor shooter (last year's version of Pascal moreso than this year's) so that he can control the paint defensively. His best asset as a player is his rim protection, so if you're asking him to step out and guard an actual perimeter based player, I think you'd only be hurting the team.

Defensively, the original starting lineup works great together (though Harris is a bit out of place at SF). It's just far too clunky offensively with the lack of spacing and off the bounce creation.

[Kobblehead]

Orlando would have fared better against the Lakers had they had a two-way player that could score on the ball in the halfcourt. An Embiid-lead Sixers team are no different. If we don't get someone that can score in the ball on the halfcourt on one end and defend his position on the other end, we're hopeless. Jimmy Butler was that guy, but we let him go.

[Sixerscan]

The NBA is littered with dominant bigs winning titles throughout it's history, so I'm not sure where you're coming from. There's been a clear shift in the rules to benefit perimeter players more, so I don't think the answer is to put another center on the floor (which they've already done, and it's gone terribly).

As for the "forcing teams to put a PF on him" stuff, this isn't 2K. Teams aren't forced to do anything just because you label him something else. He defenderd Siakam most of that Toronto series. He defends Giannis every time we play him. Those guys don't defend him on the other end. And you're not going to create mismatch issues with how slow he is in transition. Regardless, putting him on 4s is really only a good strategy if they aren't perimeter based players. Putting him on those guys has more to do with just having him on a poor shooter (last year's version of Pascal moreso than this year's) so that he can control the paint defensively. His best asset as a player is his rim protection, so if you're asking him to step out and guard an actual perimeter based player, I think you'd only be hurting the team.

Defensively, the original starting lineup works great together (though Harris is a bit out of place at SF). It's just far too clunky offensively with the lack of spacing and off the bounce creation.

Yes. This is just like when he argued that if you played a certain lineup Turner would be covered by 3s, or 1s, I forget which one it was, either way, if you're as good as Embiid teams are going to put their best defensive matchup on him and let other people worry about Horford or whoever.

[76ciology]

The NBA is littered with dominant bigs winning titles throughout it's history, so I'm not sure where you're coming from. There's been a clear shift in the rules to benefit perimeter players more, so I don't think the answer is to put another center on the floor (which they've already done, and it's gone terribly).

As for the "forcing teams to put a PF on him" stuff, this isn't 2K. Teams aren't forced to do anything just because you label him something else. He defenderd Siakam most of that Toronto series. He defends Giannis every time we play him. Those guys don't defend him on the other end. And you're not going to create mismatch issues with how slow he is in transition. Regardless, putting him on 4s is really only a good strategy if they aren't perimeter based players. Putting him on those guys has more to do with just having him on a poor shooter (last year's version of Pascal moreso than this year's) so that he can control the paint defensively. His best asset as a player is his rim protection, so if you're asking him to step out and guard an actual perimeter based player, I think you'd only be hurting the team.

Defensively, the original starting lineup works great together (though Harris is a bit out of place at SF). It's just far too clunky offensively with the lack of spacing and off the bounce creation.

Bigs, yes.

But who are the players who played mainly the center position and at the same time are the best players on their team that won the championship?

The most recent was I think in 2007 or something when Duncan played center.

The best player on a team is like the “queen” in chess. If you can take them out or weaken them, you will have a big advantage.

If your best player is a center, he will likely face the opponents best defensive player and the refs. That is unless you are Shaq facing todd macculoch. The opponents may even just have a mediocre center like Baynes or Gasol. Add a swarming team defense and a guy Biid can’t position well, and he’ll be like a queen being surrounded by the opponents “fortress” like defense.

It’s not a guarantee that opponents PF will be forced to defend Biid but you increase your chance highly. Fwiw, there were certainly a lot of times when teams were forced to put their PG on Ben and Siakam or Giannis was defending Biid. I just think we need to find ways to increase those frequency.

What NBA is littered with are great players which teams have find favorable match-ups for them to operate. Like having MJ and Pippen, which forced SGs on MJ or currently Siakam and Giannis.

It takes god given freakish physical gifts of a Wilt, Shaq or Giannis to be dominant as a center. Biid’s built and game are more like KG, Dirk or Duncan. He needs to develop his mid range or perimeter game and post up smaller defenders with the opponents center away from the rim for him to dominate down low.

If Biid opts to continue playing the C, Ben is the guy who needs to develop his game and be good enough to be an alpha. This way he can attack mismatches on a consistent basis and have Biid have his stage whenever he has a mismatch.

[76ciology]

Spoiler:

The NBA is littered with dominant bigs winning titles throughout it's history, so I'm not sure where you're coming from. There's been a clear shift in the rules to benefit perimeter players more, so I don't think the answer is to put another center on the floor (which they've already done, and it's gone terribly).

As for the "forcing teams to put a PF on him" stuff, this isn't 2K. Teams aren't forced to do anything just because you label him something else. He defenderd Siakam most of that Toronto series. He defends Giannis every time we play him. Those guys don't defend him on the other end. And you're not going to create mismatch issues with how slow he is in transition. Regardless, putting him on 4s is really only a good strategy if they aren't perimeter based players. Putting him on those guys has more to do with just having him on a poor shooter (last year's version of Pascal moreso than this year's) so that he can control the paint defensively. His best asset as a player is his rim protection, so if you're asking him to step out and guard an actual perimeter based player, I think you'd only be hurting the team.

Defensively, the original starting lineup works great together (though Harris is a bit out of place at SF). It's just far too clunky offensively with the lack of spacing and off the bounce creation.

Bigs, yes.

But who are the players who played mainly the center position and at the same time are the best players on their team that won the championship?

The most recent was I think in 2007 or something when Duncan played center.

The best player on a team is like the “queen” in chess. If you can take them out or weaken them, you will have a big advantage.

If your best player is a center, he will likely face the opponents best defensive player and the refs. That is unless you are Shaq facing todd macculoch. The opponents may even just have a mediocre center like Baynes or Gasol. Add a swarming team defense and a guy Biid can’t position well, and he’ll be like a queen being surrounded by the opponents “fortress” like defense.

It’s not a guarantee that opponents PF will be forced to defend Biid but you increase your chance highly. Fwiw, there were certainly a lot of times when teams were forced to put their PG on Ben and Siakam or Giannis was defending Biid. I just think we need to find ways to increase those frequency.

What NBA is littered with are great players which teams have find favorable match-ups for them to operate. Like having MJ and Pippen, which forced SGs on MJ or currently Siakam and Giannis.

It takes god given freakish physical gifts of a Wilt, Shaq or Giannis to be dominant as a center. Biid’s built and game are more like KG, Dirk or Duncan. He needs to develop his mid range or perimeter game and post up smaller defenders with the opponents center away from the rim for him to dominate down low.

If Biid opts to continue playing the C, Ben is the guy who needs to develop his game and be good enough to be an alpha. This way he can attack mismatches on a consistent basis and have Biid have his stage whenever he has a mismatch.

The problem with the original starting unit, if you will rewatch our playoff games is Ben and Biid got taken out the game by smarter teams who knows the importance of match-ups.

Ben was taken out with that Celts series where Al took away his size advantage or when Ben was quiet against Kawhi compared to Jared Dudley. While Biid was not as dominant against the Raps compared to how he was against Jarett Allen.

The starting unit has a high NetRtg, true. But most of it is based on regular season basketball where teams just run generic plays and match-ups, play pick-up basketball in the first half and at some point decides to play 100% or just raise the white flag in the second half.

Don’t get me wrong, it still pays to have a high NetRtg 5man unit. Which I pointed out that we may have a smallball type 5 man unit to end games. Just as Warriors starts Bogut and ends with him on the bench and having Iguodala to replace him. And some teams really had a hard time matching up against the Al-Biid frontcourt.

But like in chess, they say the middle game is connected to the end game. And in the middle game, we can stay in the game or even pull away with having Biid having higher frequencies against PFs.

The top teams we are likely to faced have guys who have the size to give Biid a hard time. Gasol, Lopez and Dwight, add a weakside shotblocker like Siakam, Giannis and AD and the opponents easily can build a formidable fortress to weaken our “queen”.

We need to learn the importance of being smart in match-ups. We are not going to win by conventional basketball styles because we have square pegs. Match-ups is why the Celtics and Brad Stevens have went further than their talent in the play-offs.

We have to find ways to have a superstar big and a star point forward shine at their brightest, unlike what we have done in the last two playoff runs. And right now, I think we are trending towards that.

[76ciology]

Orlando would have fared better against the Lakers had they had a two-way player that could score on the ball in the halfcourt. An Embiid-lead Sixers team are no different. If we don't get someone that can score in the ball on the halfcourt on one end and defend his position on the other end, we're hopeless. Jimmy Butler was that guy, but we let him go.

I was following the Magic a lot at that time. Because i have a brother who is a big magic fan and is also a long time realgmer. (This explains if he has same IP address with me, mods)

What you are saying is true. But Magic folded as soon as Dwight isnt as effective as he was during the Raps and Hawks series where both teams basically have no ideas to stop him.

Let’s just say that at one point i think the gameplan Hawks had was to just defend D12 on single coverage and live with the result. D12 can’t just score the entire game alone.

D12 made everything clicked. Whether it’s the two man game with him and Jameer or Turkoglu. Or how Lewis (pre-steroids) found his perfect role as the stretch 4 for D12.

After D12 was neutralized and Lakers was reigning supreme, they realized that D12 won’t be valued as a “queen” but more as a “rook” only against the Lakers. So they searched for that closer in Vince Carter and Gilbert Arenas.

Then they just collapsed on and off the court.

If you ask me, Dwight was just at the right place and at the right time. He reigned in the east when he faced the Bargnanis, Varejaos and Al horfords in the east. But if you look at his numbers, he struggles generally against western conference teams for these teams have the right guys to slow him down.

[76ciology]

So if we continue to have Joel Embiid being defended by centers and Ben Simmons being defended by wings, we have long ways to go to winning a championship. And we will have to dig deep with the guys around them. This is why we need multiple borderline star to star caliber guys like Tobi, Butler and Al to just make it to the second round.

[youngcrev]

The NBA is littered with dominant bigs winning titles throughout it's history, so I'm not sure where you're coming from. There's been a clear shift in the rules to benefit perimeter players more, so I don't think the answer is to put another center on the floor (which they've already done, and it's gone terribly).

As for the "forcing teams to put a PF on him" stuff, this isn't 2K. Teams aren't forced to do anything just because you label him something else. He defenderd Siakam most of that Toronto series. He defends Giannis every time we play him. Those guys don't defend him on the other end. And you're not going to create mismatch issues with how slow he is in transition. Regardless, putting him on 4s is really only a good strategy if they aren't perimeter based players. Putting him on those guys has more to do with just having him on a poor shooter (last year's version of Pascal moreso than this year's) so that he can control the paint defensively. His best asset as a player is his rim protection, so if you're asking him to step out and guard an actual perimeter based player, I think you'd only be hurting the team.

Defensively, the original starting lineup works great together (though Harris is a bit out of place at SF). It's just far too clunky offensively with the lack of spacing and off the bounce creation.

Bigs, yes.

But who are the players who played mainly the center position and at the same time are the best players on their team that won the championship?

The most recent was I think in 2007 or something when Duncan played center.

The best player on a team is like the “queen” in chess. If you can take them out or weaken them, you will have a big advantage.

If your best player is a center, he will likely face the opponents best defensive player and the refs. That is unless you are Shaq facing todd macculoch. The opponents may even just have a mediocre center like Baynes or Gasol. Add a swarming team defense and a guy Biid can’t position well, and he’ll be like a queen being surrounded by the opponents “fortress” like defense.

It’s not a guarantee that opponents PF will be forced to defend Biid but you increase your chance highly. Fwiw, there were certainly a lot of times when teams were forced to put their PG on Ben and Siakam or Giannis was defending Biid. I just think we need to find ways to increase those frequency.

What NBA is littered with are great players which teams have find favorable match-ups for them to operate. Like having MJ and Pippen, which forced SGs on MJ or currently Siakam and Giannis.

It takes god given freakish physical gifts of a Wilt, Shaq or Giannis to be dominant as a center. Biid’s built and game are more like KG, Dirk or Duncan. He needs to develop his mid range or perimeter game and post up smaller defenders with the opponents center away from the rim for him to dominate down low.

If Biid opts to continue playing the C, Ben is the guy who needs to develop his game and be good enough to be an alpha. This way he can attack mismatches on a consistent basis and have Biid have his stage whenever he has a mismatch.

Maybe we should have him play SF then? That's the position that's dominated the league for the last decade. It's probably just a coincidence that LeBron, Kawhi, and Durant play there. Plus, imagine what he'd do to a SF in the post!

Most of the great PFs of the early 2000s would be playing center right now. That's just the way the game has gone. And Jo would be a center in any era.

The best way to help Jo is giving him a guy that can create some easy buckets for him and to have enough shooting that doubling him becomes problematic.

[76ciology]

The best way to help Jo is giving him a guy that can create some easy buckets for him and to have enough shooting that doubling him becomes problematic.

Isn’t that the biggest problem?

You need someone to help your alpha get easy buckets?

Jordan, LeBron, Dirk, Duncan, Shaq and so on didn’t need someone to get them easy buckets and someone to divert the defense for them to dominate.

Your alpha should be the one getting other easy buckets and attracting the opponents defense so their Steve kerr, Mo Williams, Jason Terry, Patty Mills and Rick Fox can get open shots that puts them as higher valued offensive player than what they are straight up.

[76ciology]

On a semi-related note read this thread
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1963797

The goal is Embiid winning 6 championships and people can’t see how he was feasting against smaller defenders the entire time.

[youngcrev]

The best way to help Jo is giving him a guy that can create some easy buckets for him and to have enough shooting that doubling him becomes problematic.

Isn’t that the biggest problem?

You need someone to help your alpha get easy buckets?

Jordan, LeBron, Dirk, Duncan, Shaq and so on didn’t need someone to get them easy buckets and someone to divert the defense for them to dominate.

Your alpha should be the one getting other easy buckets and attracting the opponents defense so their Steve kerr, Mo Williams, Jason Terry, Patty Mills and Rick Fox can get open shots that puts them as higher valued offensive player than what they are straight up.

That's a weird way to twist that. Embiid's the most post heavy, iso-heavy center in the league. And he gets double teamed every time he touches the ball, which does create open looks for other players. He creates plenty. What he doesn't have is someone that can get him easy buckets in addition to those ones off dribble penetration.

Dirk had Nash and Kidd setting him up. Shaq played with Penny, Kobe and Wade. Duncan had Parker and Manu.