Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4

[Mik317]

....lol

context doesn't matter just pure numbers. Tobias has never been the second option. Klay has. Tobias is gunshy from deep. Klay isn't. The Warriors legit don't even sniff the playoffs without Klay even in his current diminished version.

like what are we even doing right now lol. I think some take Tobias for granted but lets not get crazy here....

[mjkvol]

Gravity has no impact on Embiid's effectiveness, so it's not relevant.

Harris is bigger, more efficient, and more well-rounded across the board than Thompson and the numbers prove it.

I'll give this much to you, Kobble - when you take a stance, regardless how bad and indefensible, you don't budge even an inch.

[76ciology]

If you also look at Klay’s defensive numbers, you’ll be surprised to see he isnt as good as what the mainstream narrative is.

Agree with Kobble. Tobi’s been a plus player on both ends for every year except that fake playoffs in the bubble which we pretty much decide to mail it in.

Anyone not playing the “but is he worth $35M?” card yet?

[hookshot199]

Read on Twitter

We're about to see a classic example in a couple of years when Eli Manning, a middle of the road QB whose career W/L record, TD-INT ratio, and QB rating are decidedly mediocre, but who was never hurt, accumulated a lot of passing yards in a pass happy time in the NFL, and had two charmed Super Bowl runs in his 16 years (and zero playoff wins outside of those two seasons), will be a 1st ballot HOFer.

It's okay by me. He beat Tom Brady twice.

[Mik317]

Klay also has made the playoffs damn near every year of his career and had deep runs in most of them. So the numbers being close is probably due to that extra volume and the fact that they play a different game.

this is the lack of context people ignore to prove whatever point they are trying to make. Klay is a high volume 3pt shooter...so if he has an off night...yeah his numbers are going to take a hit. Those deep playoff runs also means he probably has to play against a great scorer who over the course of a series will get his regardless of the defense...again causing a hit to the numbers. Tobias, who again gets too much **** from fans here due to his contract, has padded his numbers against often a cakewalk first round opponent and has always had a stinker in the second round especially in close out games and only recently became the guy we stick on the other teams best scorers...and this is as the 3rd or 4th option.

you can't just look at numbers and come to a conclusion all the time. Just like you can't just watch a few clips either. Its a total package and its what makes the sport interesting and too often its paired down to "well his vorpadorp is better so there" or "well he doesn't want to win enough and is a bitch"...and that feels like it is missing the heart of things IMO.

[Kobblehead]

If you also look at Klay’s defensive numbers, you’ll be surprised to see he isnt as good as what the mainstream narrative is.

Agree with Kobble. Tobi’s been a plus player on both ends for every year except that fake playoffs in the bubble which we pretty much decide to mail it in.

Anyone not playing the “but is he worth $35M?” card yet?

Yup. Bad narratives should always be corrected. If Harris spent 12 years with Curry, he'd have just as many rings and deep playoff runs (if not more, given his superior all-around game and durability to Thompson's).

[LeonJordanJr24]

Tobias has is not a winning player.

[Kobblehead]

Tobias has is not a winning player.

Leon, you've been pounding the table for Zach Lavine all summer. Do you know that Zach Lavine is 206-349 for his career? He wins just 37.1% of his games. So Lavine is a winning player to you?

[Jailblazers7]

This whole convo is just a veiled shot at Embiid (which he deserves lol). Gravity doesn’t matter because it’s doesn’t help Embiid so let’s just ignore that massively important part of the sport. All Klay’s playoff success is thanks to Steph & Tobias would’ve had the same experience if it weren’t for Embiid choking.

[mjkvol]

Read on Twitter

We're about to see a classic example in a couple of years when Eli Manning, a middle of the road QB whose career W/L record, TD-INT ratio, and QB rating are decidedly mediocre, but who was never hurt, accumulated a lot of passing yards in a pass happy time in the NFL, and had two charmed Super Bowl runs in his 16 years (and zero playoff wins outside of those two seasons), will be a 1st ballot HOFer.

It's okay by me. He beat Tom Brady twice.

No he didn't. That Giants defense beat Brady twice.

The only QB to beat Brady was Nick Foles.

[mjkvol]

Anyone not playing the “but is he worth $35M?” card yet?

No, because it is irrelevant here. If he was making half as much, he's still not close to Klay Thompson as a playoff performer.

You guys with the numbers as the be all-end all are too much.

[hookshot199]

We're about to see a classic example in a couple of years when Eli Manning, a middle of the road QB whose career W/L record, TD-INT ratio, and QB rating are decidedly mediocre, but who was never hurt, accumulated a lot of passing yards in a pass happy time in the NFL, and had two charmed Super Bowl runs in his 16 years (and zero playoff wins outside of those two seasons), will be a 1st ballot HOFer.

It's okay by me. He beat Tom Brady twice.

No he didn't. That Giants defense beat Brady twice.

The only QB to beat Brady was Nick Foles.

Manning won two MVPs, played near perfect games, not taking anything away from Nick Foles or the Giants and Eagles defenses.

[mjkvol]

It's okay by me. He beat Tom Brady twice.

No he didn't. That Giants defense beat Brady twice.

The only QB to beat Brady was Nick Foles.

Manning won two MVPs, played near perfect games, not taking anything away from Nick Foles or the Giants and Eagles defenses.

Shouldn't have won the first MVP, I'll give him the second. But this is an alleged HOF QB who made the playoffs in 6 of his 16 seasons, and won no playoff games other than those two runs, has a lifetime QB rating of 84, a lifetime .500 record, and made All-Pro one time. His most impressive achievement was staying on the field and accumulating passing yardage. He has a 1.5/1 TD to INT rate. He was never among the best at his position, yet he will be voted in on the first ballot. Having the Manning name is a good thing.

[Kobblehead]

No he didn't. That Giants defense beat Brady twice.

The only QB to beat Brady was Nick Foles.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201202050nwe.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200802030nwe.htm

I think the numbers show Eli played better than Tom in both of those games. Beat him twice and outplayed him twice.

[mjkvol]

No he didn't. That Giants defense beat Brady twice.

The only QB to beat Brady was Nick Foles.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201202050nwe.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200802030nwe.htm

I think the numbers show Eli played better than Tom in both of those games. Beat him twice and outplayed him twice.

My point was that Foles beat Brady at the top of his game - Brady threw for 500 yards. The Giants front 7 made life miserable for Brady. Manning did fine in those games, but needed a lot of circus catches in both, plus a dropped Asante Samuel INT that would have ended the 2007 game.

[Black Mage]

Consider the source FWIW:

Read on Twitter

[ProcessDoctor]

yuck

But also that trade is fake because LA can’t take back that much salary.

[NBD23]

Klay also has made the playoffs damn near every year of his career and had deep runs in most of them. So the numbers being close is probably due to that extra volume and the fact that they play a different game.

this is the lack of context people ignore to prove whatever point they are trying to make. Klay is a high volume 3pt shooter...so if he has an off night...yeah his numbers are going to take a hit. Those deep playoff runs also means he probably has to play against a great scorer who over the course of a series will get his regardless of the defense...again causing a hit to the numbers. Tobias, who again gets too much **** from fans here due to his contract, has padded his numbers against often a cakewalk first round opponent and has always had a stinker in the second round especially in close out games and only recently became the guy we stick on the other teams best scorers...and this is as the 3rd or 4th option.

you can't just look at numbers and come to a conclusion all the time. Just like you can't just watch a few clips either. Its a total package and its what makes the sport interesting and too often its paired down to "well his vorpadorp is better so there" or "well he doesn't want to win enough and is a bitch"...and that feels like it is missing the heart of things IMO.

This is what I 100 percent believe. The extreme stat and watch the film guys are like the Maga republicans and the AOC wing. Can’t budge and can’t see a well rounded picture of anything. Context matters and numbers matter but everything has to create the entirety of the picture.

[mjkvol]

Consider the source FWIW:

Read on Twitter

If that's actually the case, I agree with Morey 100%.

[GoSixersBro]

if we let Tobias get to FA, he is running out of town lol

Dude has been a pro and the fanbase has blamed him for everything. He will have suitors around the league.

Tobias is overpaid for what he is...HOWEVER dude has done all that has been asked of him since coming here..he may not like it or even be good at it but he's done it lol. This is an Iggy situation in which because the FO overpaid him for a role he wasn't good enough for the player gets thrashed for it. I bet he can't wait to leave lol. I am surprised he hasn't asked for a trade actually lol.

He really hasn't. After time I became comfortable in accepting he'd never live up to a $35M - $40M star player level, but he couldn't even help us step up and steal any playoff games over 5 postseasons and consistently fulfill that reliable third, hell even fourth option at times. He's literally had 1 30 point playoff game as a Sixer and it was against the hapless Wizards in Game 1 of 2021. How is that possible over 51 playoff games yet his father is clamoring he's an assassin who's been misused?

Even if he was getting paid $20-$30M over the last contract I'd still consider him the same. He's extremely timid in big moments and has a low ceiling when it comes to his mental and also ability in games that matter.