Sixers Offseason Thread Part 2

[Ferry Avenue]

Considering there are only 2 centers in the game who *anyone* would argue are even close to good enough to build a team around, and the other one is the current holder of the title, this seems like a fairly asinine point.

Yes, Jokic is definitely a different style of center then Embiid so him winning it isn't a proof of concept for Embiid but trying to make a case that you can't do it with Embiid because there isn't another player like him other then Jokic is just building a thesis to fit your conclusion.

Call me crazy, but I think a good coach can find up a way to scheme around an elite rim protector who scores 25-30/game on good efficiency if he's got a good supporting cast.

If the game were won with traditional centers like Embiid, don’t you think there would be more of them?

When Michael Jordan stormed through the league with a dynasty with the Chicago Bulls, it wasn’t exactly a ringing endorsement for the development of centers at the high school and college levels.

Similarly Patrick Mahomes isn’t inspiring anything up-and-coming at the running back position in football.

Yeah, I see a whole bunch of freakishly athletic 7-foot guys roaming the streets. They just get routed to things other then basketball. My financial planner...7-foot-3 and runs a 4.35, just couldn't say no to Merrill Lynch.

Jesus Tapdancing Christ dude....there's a reason the NBAs best centers are Jokic, Embiid......GIGANTIC DROPOFF......next guy. They're one (or two) of a kind and any team would kill to have one. They're not automatic tickets to championships but they're insanely valuable pieces.

The game used to be organized around the paint and it no longer is -- it's organized around the perimeter and the three-point shot. This is common knowledge and it fundamentally alters the role of the center in the present day game. Consequently the tall kids running around in middle school and high school gyms are practicing three-pointers, not post-up moves. And the tall players in the NBA are doing the same thing.

[Negrodamus]

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/jAMWK-rNPxQ

Sign Lowry for nothing, bring in DeRozan. Build out the rest of the roster with the remaining cap and still keep draft picks for future team building.

We’re not getting LeBron, PG is using us for leverage, Ingram is worse than DeRozan and will require assets to acquire.

PG is definitely using us for leverage, but what happens if the Clippers don't give in? They are in a rough negotiating spot. Does giving PG more than Kawhi cause drama? What does giving in to his demands do to their negotiations with Harden?

Anyway, if they strike out elsewhere (would need to be like a 12 pitch at bat to stick with the metaphor), I'm fine with DeRozan on a short term deal at around $30M.

Fit with Embiid is rough, but he'd at least give us a guy that carry offense in lineups when Embiid is off the floor.

I think the fit is not really any different than Jimmy. You don’t really want Jimmy taking a ton of threes when his game is better inside the arc. He and Maxey getting turns running the PnR with Embiid will be tough on defenses. Additionally DeRozan adds a FT getter which we have generally lacked. Bring back Oubre and Batum. Try to find more wings that can stretch the floor in FA and draft. I think we contend with that team next year.

[youngcrev]

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/jAMWK-rNPxQ

Sign Lowry for nothing, bring in DeRozan. Build out the rest of the roster with the remaining cap and still keep draft picks for future team building.

We’re not getting LeBron, PG is using us for leverage, Ingram is worse than DeRozan and will require assets to acquire.

PG is definitely using us for leverage, but what happens if the Clippers don't give in? They are in a rough negotiating spot. Does giving PG more than Kawhi cause drama? What does giving in to his demands do to their negotiations with Harden?

Anyway, if they strike out elsewhere (would need to be like a 12 pitch at bat to stick with the metaphor), I'm fine with DeRozan on a short term deal at around $30M.

Fit with Embiid is rough, but he'd at least give us a guy that carry offense in lineups when Embiid is off the floor.

I think the fit is not really any different than Jimmy. You don’t really want Jimmy taking a ton of threes when his game is better inside the arc. He and Maxey getting turns running the PnR with Embiid will be tough on defenses. Additionally DeRozan adds a FT getter which we have generally lacked. Bring back Oubre and Batum. Try to find more wings that can stretch the floor in FA and draft. I think we contend with that team next year.

Yeah, but I'd actually be good with taking the ball out of Maxey/Embiid's hands for Jimmy. And he does enough other stuff on the floor to deal with him disappearing offensively for stretches.

I think it's tougher to find surrounding pieces too due to the defense. You need wings that can both defend and shoot at a really high level to go with Maxey/DeMar, and that's not an easy ask. Most 3+D guys are substandard at one or the other. Maybe the additional cap space/available assets let you go get a DeAndre Hunter or something? Throw money at Pat Williams and hope things click in a new setting?

[ProcessDoctor]

Yea not only is Derozan a worse spacer than Jimmy, but he also does nothing defensively and shrinks in the playoffs.

He’s someone I’d sign in an emergency situation as a future filler contract in a trade. Like Zach Lavine, Miles Bridges, and maybe even Klay Thompson have to be off the table.

[ProcessDoctor]

2-Year Vets Offseason


1. Draft Tristan da Silva at #16
2. Sign Klay Thompson, Miles Bridges, and Kyle Anderson to 2-year deals with remaining cap space (~$60 mil)
3. Sign Kelly Oubre with room exception
4. Sign Cam Payne, Kyle Lowry, Dario Saric, Robert Covington, and Andre Drummond for vet mins


Maxey/Payne/Lowry
Thompson/Oubre/(project)
Bridges/Da Silva/Council
Anderson/Saric/Covington
Embiid/Drummond/(project)

[FireMorey]

So seeing these lack-luster options is making me somewhat forget how horrible a person miles bridges is… lol I may totally have forgotten by free agenxy

He's gonna need his own police escort at the parade if the Sixers sign him and win a title.

[ProcessDoctor]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10122849-2024-nba-free-agency-ranking-the-top-30-stars-potentially-available

Bleacher Report, but a decent summary. I wonder if either Gary Harris or Royce O'Neale could be had for the minimum. They seem like ideal Melton replacements if either party chooses to go in another direction. Those guys could be especially helpful in a Paul George max route with only ~$10 mil cap left (pretending we keep #16).

I'm basically penciling in Oubre for the room exception. Seems to work in most scenarios.

[youngcrev]

I think Morey's ideal (realistic) off-season at this point would something like #16 for Caruso, Paul George for the max, Batum with remaining cap (6-7M), Oubre with the room, and the best batch of minimum signings he can get (Lowry? Drummond? Hayward?).

[Negrodamus]

Yea not only is Derozan a worse spacer than Jimmy, but he also does nothing defensively and shrinks in the playoffs.

He’s someone I’d sign in an emergency situation as a future filler contract in a trade. Like Zach Lavine, Miles Bridges, and maybe even Klay Thompson have to be off the table.

Oh god, that’s way differently than how I see it. I don’t view it as us needing another star who can space. Maxey is already an elite shooter from the outside. Embiid can hit from outside when open. We presumably can have Oubre and Batum, guys who can shoot from the outside.

What we don’t have is anyone who is clutch. DeRozan just came in second for the clutch award.

[youngcrev]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10122849-2024-nba-free-agency-ranking-the-top-30-stars-potentially-available

Bleacher Report, but a decent summary. I wonder if either Gary Harris or Royce O'Neale could be had for the minimum. They seem like ideal Melton replacements if either party chooses to go in another direction. Those guys could be especially helpful in a Paul George max route with only ~$10 mil cap left (pretending we keep #16).

I'm basically penciling in Oubre for the room exception. Seems to work in most scenarios.

A lot of Sixers on that list.

Agreed on Harris if he doesn't manage to get paid. I wouldn't be shocked to see him back in Denver if they lose KCP in free agency.

I imagine the Suns offer O'Neale more than the minimum to retain him. They're so limited on what they can do.

[ProcessDoctor]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10122849-2024-nba-free-agency-ranking-the-top-30-stars-potentially-available

Bleacher Report, but a decent summary. I wonder if either Gary Harris or Royce O'Neale could be had for the minimum. They seem like ideal Melton replacements if either party chooses to go in another direction. Those guys could be especially helpful in a Paul George max route with only ~$10 mil cap left (pretending we keep #16).

I'm basically penciling in Oubre for the room exception. Seems to work in most scenarios.

A lot of Sixers on that list.

Agreed on Harris if he doesn't manage to get paid. I wouldn't be shocked to see him back in Denver if they lose KCP in free agency.

I imagine the Suns offer O'Neale more than the minimum to retain him. They're so limited on what they can do.

Ah I forgot Phoenix has O'Neale's bird rights. I can't see them letting him go, and if they do, it's because someone overpaid.

[ProcessDoctor]

Yea not only is Derozan a worse spacer than Jimmy, but he also does nothing defensively and shrinks in the playoffs.

He’s someone I’d sign in an emergency situation as a future filler contract in a trade. Like Zach Lavine, Miles Bridges, and maybe even Klay Thompson have to be off the table.

Oh god, that’s way differently than how I see it. I don’t view it as us needing another star who can space. Maxey is already an elite shooter from the outside. Embiid can hit from outside when open. We presumably can have Oubre and Batum, guys who can shoot from the outside.

What we don’t have is anyone who is clutch. DeRozan just came in second for the clutch award.

I agree we don't need a 3rd star to space, but they need to have some range. Shooting less than two 3's per game in this era is unacceptable unless you're a mid-tier center.

[Negrodamus]

Yea not only is Derozan a worse spacer than Jimmy, but he also does nothing defensively and shrinks in the playoffs.

He’s someone I’d sign in an emergency situation as a future filler contract in a trade. Like Zach Lavine, Miles Bridges, and maybe even Klay Thompson have to be off the table.

Oh god, that’s way differently than how I see it. I don’t view it as us needing another star who can space. Maxey is already an elite shooter from the outside. Embiid can hit from outside when open. We presumably can have Oubre and Batum, guys who can shoot from the outside.

What we don’t have is anyone who is clutch. DeRozan just came in second for the clutch award.

I agree we don't need a 3rd star to space, but they need to have some range. Shooting less than two 3's per game in this era is unacceptable unless you're a mid-tier center.

Guess we’re out on Jimmy Butler then, which is a relief since he’ll cost multiple firsts.

[76ciology]

I think people are underestimating how bad of an owner Jerry Reinsdorf is. No way the Bulls are going to trade LaVine + assets to get much worse. Would it benefit the Bulls long term? Probably. But Reinsdorf is more than happy to see his team stay as the 6-9 seed and collect revenue, LaVine helps that.

The Bulls' team salary currently stands at $131 million. If they can trade LaVine for cap space, their team salary would drop to around $90 million. This reduction would give them enough room to replace LaVine with players like Malik Monk or Klay Thompson. Additionally, LaVine no longer fits well with the Bulls, as their guard positions are already filled with Coby White, Ayo Dosunmu, Alex Caruso, and possibly even DeMar DeRozan.

They could also use the cap space to sign a player like Isaiah Hartenstein or Jalen Smith, who would fill their much-needed power forward position.

Furthermore, moving down from the 11th to the 16th draft pick doesn't involve sacrificing much talent.

I was visiting the Bulls site, in their Zach trade thread they fully expect to “get” in a Lavine trade, not give up. The 76ers example was this years first + another + a second. Granted, it’s a fan board, we are all homers for our teams… but I think Zach doesn’t get moved at all if they are wanting value for him.

The beauty of the LaVine-for-cap-space deal is that it not only solves their logjam but also provides additional benefits. By trading LaVine for cap space, the Bulls would gain 40-50M in cap space, allowing them to sign two players worth 20-25M each, such as Miles Bridges to pair with Vucevic or Hartenstein to replace Vucevic. Alternatively, they could sign someone like Malik Monk or Klay Thompson to replace LaVine. Additionally, we would likely ask for a swap of the 2024 pick, moving down from 11 to 16, and a swap of the 2026 OKC pick for their 2026 pick

Then for us, if it doesnt work, we can trade Lavine’s contract which increases in value as 2027 approaches, as well as the pick we select in the lottery this year and the 2026 Bulls 1st along with the other picks we didnt give up.

[ProcessDoctor]

This series has made me want to go back to the DeJounte Murray conversations. Trade two 1sts for him, sign Miles Bridges and Obi Toppin/Jalen Smith (~$40 mil total), sign Oubre with the room exception, and top off with vets.

Murray/Lowry
Maxey/Council
Bridges/Oubre
Toppin/Saric
Embiid/Drummond

[Negrodamus]

We hammer the table about needing shooters, but Boston is letting Dallas stay in the game at home because their shooters are going ice cold. Meanwhile Doncic is getting to the line and keeping the team in games.

I’d rather a low volume, high FTr wing with distribution ability to match with Maxey and Embiid than guys who are bound to go ice cold in the playoffs and have no ability to get us a basket.

[the_process]

We hammer the table about needing shooters, but Boston is letting Dallas stay in the game at home because their shooters are going ice cold. Meanwhile Doncic is getting to the line and keeping the team in games.

I’d rather a low volume, high FTr wing with distribution ability to match with Maxey and Embiid than guys who are bound to go ice cold in the playoffs and have no ability to get us a basket.

Relying on drawing fouls in the playoffs is a fools errand.

Kyrie is shrinking right now, mostly because he let the Boston fans get to him.

[the_process]

The Bulls' team salary currently stands at $131 million. If they can trade LaVine for cap space, their team salary would drop to around $90 million. This reduction would give them enough room to replace LaVine with players like Malik Monk or Klay Thompson. Additionally, LaVine no longer fits well with the Bulls, as their guard positions are already filled with Coby White, Ayo Dosunmu, Alex Caruso, and possibly even DeMar DeRozan.

They could also use the cap space to sign a player like Isaiah Hartenstein or Jalen Smith, who would fill their much-needed power forward position.

Furthermore, moving down from the 11th to the 16th draft pick doesn't involve sacrificing much talent.

I was visiting the Bulls site, in their Zach trade thread they fully expect to “get” in a Lavine trade, not give up. The 76ers example was this years first + another + a second. Granted, it’s a fan board, we are all homers for our teams… but I think Zach doesn’t get moved at all if they are wanting value for him.

The beauty of the LaVine-for-cap-space deal is that it not only solves their logjam but also provides additional benefits. By trading LaVine for cap space, the Bulls would gain 40-50M in cap space, allowing them to sign two players worth 20-25M each, such as Miles Bridges to pair with Vucevic or Hartenstein to replace Vucevic. Alternatively, they could sign someone like Malik Monk or Klay Thompson to replace LaVine. Additionally, we would likely ask for a swap of the 2024 pick, moving down from 11 to 16, and a swap of the 2026 OKC pick for their 2026 pick

Then for us, if it doesnt work, we can trade Lavine’s contract which increases in value as 2027 approaches, as well as the pick we select in the lottery this year and the 2026 Bulls 1st along with the other picks we didnt give up.

In theory, it's nice to talk about getting paid to take a bad contract.

In reality, the Bulls are going to want an asset for LaVine still. I don't think they're going to pay to get off him.

IMO the best you could do would be something like LaVine and Caruso for Reed, 16, and 41. That way Chicago can at least sell it as they got something for each of their guys.

[76ciology]

I was visiting the Bulls site, in their Zach trade thread they fully expect to “get” in a Lavine trade, not give up. The 76ers example was this years first + another + a second. Granted, it’s a fan board, we are all homers for our teams… but I think Zach doesn’t get moved at all if they are wanting value for him.

The beauty of the LaVine-for-cap-space deal is that it not only solves their logjam but also provides additional benefits. By trading LaVine for cap space, the Bulls would gain 40-50M in cap space, allowing them to sign two players worth 20-25M each, such as Miles Bridges to pair with Vucevic or Hartenstein to replace Vucevic. Alternatively, they could sign someone like Malik Monk or Klay Thompson to replace LaVine. Additionally, we would likely ask for a swap of the 2024 pick, moving down from 11 to 16, and a swap of the 2026 OKC pick for their 2026 pick

Then for us, if it doesnt work, we can trade Lavine’s contract which increases in value as 2027 approaches, as well as the pick we select in the lottery this year and the 2026 Bulls 1st along with the other picks we didnt give up.

In theory, it's nice to talk about getting paid to take a bad contract.

In reality, the Bulls are going to want an asset for LaVine still. I don't think they're going to pay to get off him.

IMO the best you could do would be something like LaVine and Caruso for Reed, 16, and 41. That way Chicago can at least sell it as they got something for each of their guys.

As ive explained, they are getting an asset because its going to free up $40-50M worth of cap for them, what they’re giving up is relatively minimal with two swaps (2024 and 2026). I dont even value that 2024 swap for I think the gap in talent with the 11th and 16th pick is very minimal to be a deal breaker.

They can even sign Paul George after the trade..

[76ciology]

We hammer the table about needing shooters, but Boston is letting Dallas stay in the game at home because their shooters are going ice cold. Meanwhile Doncic is getting to the line and keeping the team in games.

I’d rather a low volume, high FTr wing with distribution ability to match with Maxey and Embiid than guys who are bound to go ice cold in the playoffs and have no ability to get us a basket.

Relying on drawing fouls in the playoffs is a fools errand.

Kyrie is shrinking right now, mostly because he let the Boston fans get to him.

The refs also has to call it to make the game close for the TV ratings.