Pacers @ Sixers 1/21/08: 2PM Tip-Off!!

[bebopdeluxe]

I was thinking about a S&T for Arenas, but I guess he would have to want to come here to make that happen...I also like Phoenix as an option (and there are a couple of ways that you could go with that team).

[Hewy29]

Its posters like Sendem that need to go. He is the aborted child of Ricky Prior and Shawn Bradley.

Holy crap!! That was vicious and hilarious all at the same time.

[freshie2]

Don't like the Iguodala for Miller proposal...Iguodala isn't untouchable, but you have to bring back something more than that.

[The Guilty Party]

Is everyone happy with this loss?? Seems like we're all in tank mode on this board.

[76erinSJ]

I hope we win every game and cheer when we look like were gonna win but if we end up losing if it was a close game like the Spurs game then Im fine with losing because if we end up wit a middle pick like Carney again we might as well trade it.

[tk76]

21/34 .618
14/25 .560

Wow, we almost shot worse from the foul line than Indian shot from the 3 pt line. They shot 25 3's, and we miss more ft's than they missed 3's. That is some brutal shooting from the line, and horrible close outs at the three point line.

I really can't imagine Indy beats many teams with the line-up they threw out there (and they lost 2 more layers at half.) They had no interior defenders, and we could have gotten o the rim on every possession and fouled their remaining players out, but instead we often settled for jumpers, and then missed free throws when we did get aggressive and got to the line.

Props to Mo for giving Thad the 2nd half start. I was about to criticize him at the half for being on the wrong side of the match-ups, but then he made the right adjustment (no way Evans could keep up with Granger, nor could he make him pay in post.)

Thad continues to impress- he gets O-boards at the same 1/10min clip as Evans and Sam- who are two of the best in the league on the O-Board. 6 O-Boards in 30 minutes is great- and imagine as he bulks up (and grows 2 inches.)

I am staying out of the Iguodala arguement.

Just remember what people make before throwing out names. If we sign him to 5yrs 54 mil that means he gets 9 Mil next year and then the nl 10% raises (which will be less than Mike Miller will make next year.) It is looking like if anything we will be able to sign Iguodala for less than that.

[bebopdeluxe]

TGP:

Wouldn't say that I am in "tank" mode...I personally find it almost impossible to watch a Sixers game and hope they lose. For me, the second half of this season is about giving the young guys some burn, and figuring out what pieces Stefanski is keeping for the rebuild...and in that sense, I think some good stuff is actually happening.

For me, the most interesting thing that I am following is Iggy...because a MAJOR decision is coming up this summer, and it is an important one to get right. To be honest, other than the trade/don't trade Miller storyline, there really is nothing else to follow...give the young guys LOTS of PT...hope that Eddie can move either Evans or Green...and pray for the ping-pong-ball gods to be on our side this summer.

[76erinSJ]

If we could some how end up with Brand, Calderon and a SG/PG that can nail the 3 while getting rid of Miller, Green and Evans we would be very good next year.

[tk76]

BTW Fixer, I think your point may be valid- but we are not yet in a position to be very choosy with our talent. Lets see them both develop over the next 1-2 seasons, and if they don't mesh then deal one of them.

I agree we can't afford to overpay Iguodala- but since we are in the drivers seat I doubt we will sign him to a horrible contract- so he still will have trade value after we sign him.

If someone makes a great offer of a promising post scorer then make a trade- and no one should be untouchable at this stage of the rebuild- but I would not look to move him just for the sake of whether or not he might fit on our eventual roster somewhere down the road. Move him (if we chose to) when it gets us the right player in return, not because we are afraid to negotiate with him.

[bebopdeluxe]

76erin SJ:

Dude...please put down the crack pipe and back away slowly...



Not asking for much...you just want an All-Star PF, a solid up-and-coming PG and a perimeter threat for Miller and two rotation guys with long-term contracts...

Hey - I would like that as well. I would also like the stock market to go up tomorrow (and that sure ain't happening).

[The Sixer Fixer]

Just remember what people make before throwing out names. If we sign him to 5yrs 54 mil that means he gets 9 Mil next year and then the nl 10% raises (which will be less than Mike Miller will make next year.) It is looking like if anything we will be able to sign Iguodala for less than that.

Miller will make 9.1 mil next year, so based on your scenario, they match up perfectly $$ wise.

[76erinSJ]

We trade Miller, Green and Evans for expirings. We then use that cap space to get them. I never said trade those players for Brand and Calderon. Brand is damaged good. He take the best offer he recieves and if we promise Calderon that he will be the starter and we can offer more then other teams he will come here. Its def not a pipe dream.

[tk76]

-= original quote snipped =-



Miller will make 9.1 mil next year, so based on your scenario, they match up perfectly $$ wise.

Thanks, I hadn't checked the exact numbers.

If we sign Dala at 9M next year at age 24 I see him still having lots of value on the market- if we eventually decide he doesn't fit. He's clearly as or more marketable as a Mike Miller.

I could see a problem if we give him 12M next year (65M? over 5 years), but no way we capitulate when the market is ours.

[tk76]

I would gladly move Iguodala in part of a deal that lands us Amare- but not likely.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

You guys (for the most part) have a very intelligent board.

Thad Young is a tremendous prospect. I knew he'd be a solid NBA player when he was in high school, and he convinced me he could be a starter during his year at GT, but after the way he played today I think he could be a true star in this league. He has fantastic touch around the rim and scores very effictively. He also seems to know his game a lot better then most players with his age and experience. He understands where he is supposed to be most of the time and makes smart decisions with the basketball.

The thing that surprises and impresses me most about that is that I feel like Mo Cheeks is terrible at coaching players individually. Most of your young guys look very confused, like they don't really know their role. It seems like Mo gives conflicting instructions to guys, especially Iguodala. It wouldn't surprise me if one timeout Mo tell Iggy that he has to make the defense respect his shot and start knocking them down from the outside, only to tell him to stop shooting so much and take it to the rack the next.

He's not just terrible at THAT. Just see the lineups. How the hell is Reggie Evans logging 25-30 minutes a night is beyond me. Much worse is how he touches the basketball AFTER he rebounds the ball. Jason Smith's a starter over this clown. And even if he isn't shooting well, he'll actually be able to put the rebounds back into the hoop.

[76erinSJ]

Im amazed at how many layups Evans misses too. He should be coming off the bench for Smith but we are showcasing him hoping someone will take him off our hands. Same thing with Green.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

Props to Mo for giving Thad the 2nd half start. I was about to criticize him at the half for being on the wrong side of the match-ups, but then he made the right adjustment (no way Evans could keep up with Granger, nor could he make him pay in post.)

Thad continues to impress- he gets O-boards at the same 1/10min clip as Evans and Sam- who are two of the best in the league on the O-Board. 6 O-Boards in 30 minutes is great- and imagine as he bulks up (and grows 2 inches.)

This 2nd half start was well deserved and not because Danny Granger was going to give Reggie Evans a spanking. He has EARNED these type of minutes. He's earned them since he stepped onto the floor. His effort and hustle is HUGE for this basketball team. Not Evans's little "rebounding" if it can be called as such. BUT, that growing thing is unlikely. I know we men stop growing at the age of 21, but sometimes that stops a little early.

[The Sixer Fixer]

BTW Fixer, I think your point may be valid- but we are not yet in a position to be very choosy with our talent. Lets see them both develop over the next 1-2 seasons, and if they don't mesh then deal one of them.

I disagee on us not being in a position to be choosy. I think we HAVE to be choosy. Ed has talked about building the team "the right way". You don't do that by signing a guy for 10 mil just cause he has more talent than other guys on the team. We HAVE to use our cap room wisely. If that 10 mil can be used on a player who fits the long term picture better, I sure hope Ed goes after that other player. Just cause Iguodala was our draft pick does not mean we need to stay committed to him. I would have no problem letting him walk for nothing if we can use his cap hold of 8 mil + to sign another player to replace him that fits better.

Is there someone out there like that? I'm not sure since all the better options will cost more. That is why I think our best option to is expore S/T deal with Andre. Maybe he can be used in a package for Gasol in the offseason...maybe it's for someone like Mike Miller. I think those guys are both better fits than Andre long term.

I know people think Miller isn't half the player Andre is, but the truth is I think he's a way better offensive player (much more efficient). He does as much as Andre and he's clearly the 3rd option on offense with the Grizz. Andre would probably be classified as our #1 option. Miller is averaging close to 16.5 PPG on 11.6 shot per game. That's very efficient scoring. With a true PG in Conley starting in Memphis, Miller's PPG are up to almost 19 PPG and his FG% is 55%. This is a guy who takes nealry half his FG attempt from 3 pt land and still has a FG% that high.

[76erinSJ]

Our SL should be Sammy Smith Thad Iggy Miller wit Green Evans Lou and Carney coming off the bench. Sadly, I dont think we will see that lineup until after the trade deadline. Evans rebs and Greens shooting, if you can call it that, arent as important as giving Thad and Smith real minutes. This is a losing season so we might as well get our rookies feet really wet.

[dbodner]

I had a dream! That one day the posters on the Real GM Sixers forum would see Andre Iguodala as the flawed "star" poser that he is

I had a dream that one day you realized that nobody here views him as a star. But for someone who likes to be a contrarian (sp?), that doesn't fit your posting style.

That leaves Iguodala as this teams SG of the future and I really don't think that fits. A team has to have a SG who can shoot from the outside. Someone who can come off screen and hit the quick jump shot. Basically someone who can stretch the D. Iguodala isn't good at the 3 ball or the catch and shoot. He wants to try and create his own shot all the time when he gets the ball. That style really stalls the offense since it does not promote ball movement. If we had a SF like Peja/Rashard Lewis, this wouldn't be so bad, but 3 pt shooting isn't likely to be Thad's strength at SF

I actually think Iguodala's catch and shoot from the corner is his most reliable jump shot.

I do agree that he's not a "come off the screens" catch and shoot player. But I think his set shot 3 pointers is average, possibly even slightly above average. I think when he hasn't been a primary option in the past, he's been very good at cutting to the basket. Him and Thad setting screens and cutting to the basket could work very well in the future. I also think before he was the primary option, he was a very good quick passer. By that I mean in his first 2.5 years in the league, the ball never stopped with him. He got the ball, either shot it, or made a quick read and moved the ball really well. I see the same similarity with thad, and think both can work very well on a ball movement team.

I think people are looking at what Iguodala's been forced into trying to do, and missing the other skills that aren't on display with this group. Back when he was playing with stars, people always complained that he didn't look for his own shot, and didn't create as much as he could. Now people complain because he's too much isolation and can't work in a ball movement offense. Did people forget how he played before last December?

Get a legitimate top option on this team, and the pieces begin to fit. Iguodala goes back to being the 2/1 assist to turnover guy he was the first 2.5 years of his career. We go back to remarking about how great he is at making a touch pass, and we realize that he's made himself into a solid set shooter, who at 23 years old is very likely to continue to improve himself. I have no doubt that at 25, 26, 27 years old he's going to be an above average 3 point shooter. We go back to praising how well he moves off the ball and cuts to the basket. About how smart of a team defender he is, and about how good of a rebounder he is from the guard.

I don't agree that Iguodala can't work anymore as a non top option. And I don't agree that Iguodala and Thad don't fit. In fact, I think they fit very well. We absolutely should be able to run a very good motion offense with the two, as I see both of them as very good cutters, as very good screen setters, and very good touch passers and quick decision makers, and both terrors on the break (not only finishing a break, but starting a break with a forced turnover or a rebound, and making good passes on the break). I think some people have become blinded by Iguodala being asked to be something he's not, and IMO something he doesn't want to be, and forgetting what he can do. In a perfect world, I see Iguodala being a 16-18 ppg scorer with great defense, and a great all around game. I still see that player in him, and at 23 years of age I definitely don't think he's someone who needs to be moved or that can't fit with the future of the team.