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Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll

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Simmons or Ingram

Simmons
137
56%
Ingram
106
44%
 
Total votes: 243

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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1421 » by Kobblehead » Wed May 25, 2016 3:11 pm

Boston doesn't seem to care about using Smart as a facilitator. They seem to be content with him just being a Tony Allen clone. I actually think they're dropping the ball with his development.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1422 » by FreesFro » Wed May 25, 2016 3:28 pm

76ciology wrote:
Agnostifarian wrote:
eagereyez wrote:So I've noticed that Simmons has pulled away the longer the discussion has gone. Here's another poll on the subject.

http://www.libertyballers.com/2016/5/18/11701550/2016-nba-mock-draft-sixers-ben-simmons-lsu-brandon-ingram-duke

Simmons is currently winning 63% to 37%, with ~5,000 votes.


Here's my take on the "Simmons Resurgence" in the polls. ESPN anointed Simmons as the next coming prior to the NCAA season. However, as the games played out, Simmons showed some warts and Ingram surprised many. NCAA fans and scouts spent the winter months watching Simmons and Ingram play for their respective teams. Simmons game raised questions and Ingram's game answered questions. The NCAA games ended and we had a horserace.

Two months later, NBA fans tuned into the 2016 draft class. Many are making judgements based on internet chatter and/or video highlights as opposed to having watched extensive game footage of these prospects. The polls are moving as the lazy herd of ESPN disciples migrate through the draft season.

In the end, I will be freakin' psyched to support our #1 pick as either player will be a fine selection. I am still hoping that we make a deal with LAL and select Ingram and Simmons. Shoot the bullets, Bryan!! :rock:


Quote:
What makes people think that Ingram is a harder worker than Simmons? I've not seen anything to indicate Simmons isn't a hard worker or that he doesn't have a high work ethic on his basketball skills.


Simple.

Gained 20 pounds prior to season start.
Went from #4/#3 option, looking timid during his first 2 weeks of basketball.
Became #2 option, clearly under Grayson Allen
Turned himself borderline 3 and D beginning of the season. Slowly increased blocks and rebound rate.
Became an elite Iso player option at the NCAA level.
Two different months, shot 43% and 48% behind the arc.
Played out of position, from SF into PF while Amile Jefferson was out.

Ben Simmons did not have that progression. Basic statistics don't reveal role changes. They do show trends.

Duke, won more games, while being short-handed.
LSU, lost more games as the season progressed.

I don't buy the "well they faced better competition argument. Ingram found ways to excel DESPITE that. Duke won, DESPITE that.

But I can't hold Simmons to the same standard because of his coach? or the fact that Simmons never showed that kind of dramatic improvement as a midrange shooter?

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/ben-simmons-1/splits/2016/

As said before, the difference between December, his hottest month, and March, his 2nd coldest month, is obvious.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/ben-simmons-1/splits/2016/

From 65% FG to 54% FG
75%FT to 63%FT
22.5ppg to 16ppg
5.2apg to 3.1apg
1.3bpg to 0.25bpg

It's not the shooting that's the biggest problem. It's the fact that his elite skills with playmaking and defense all downtrended.

In December, Ben Simmons was obvious for #1 by lightyears.
By January I changed my mind and had Ingram #1.
By March, DX and other basketball outlets did the same.

The downward trend, is obvious.

Contrast Ingram:
November vs March
38.8% vs 40% FG
24% vs 42.5% 3pt FG
56% vs 66% FT
3.7rpg vs 7.42rpg
1apg vs 2.2apg
1.1stlpg vs 1.1stlpg
1.1bpg vs 1.1bpg
10.8ppg vs 18.86ppg


http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/brandon-ingram-1/splits/2016/

Outside of the shooting, everything else was either on par, or FAR better. Near double 3pt%. Double rebounding. Double assists. Near double scoring.

So I expect the next argument to be "Well Ben Simmons still has better overall averages for the season" to which I say, I'd rather have the guy that starts at a lower bar, and shows the continual improvement.

It didn't matter it was March.
It didnt matter that it was the ACC tournament with tougher competition
It didn't matter that Duke basically ran a 7-8 man rotation after Amile Jefferson got hurt.
Ingram improved. Ingram gained more responsibilities. Duke, succeeded.

Not bad for a guy that was basically 18.5 years old.

Imagine how well he would do if he was a full year older like Ben Simmons.

Brandon Ingram
NCAA tournament
23ppg
45%FG
37.5% 3ptFG
6rpg
2.1apg
1.1stlpg
1bpg
1 TOpg

Ben Simmons Conference Tournament (DNQ NCAA, Denied NIT)
12.5ppg
52.6%RT
10rpg
1apg
1stlpg
0.5bpg
3TOpg

That's why I have Ingram as my #1.
_________________



Saw this in a lakers forum. Not my post so don't kill the messenger.

P.S. If there's a flaw in Ingram that I see is his low FG% that I guess would persist until he gain strength. Yes, Ingram had a really bad first month but eventually gain momentum and his improvement has been noticeable. And with Simmons, I've posted the highlight video of his last game against Texas A&M where he struggled against long defenders and defense sagging off him or forcing him left.


I'll absolutely shoot the messenger here. First you reference a post from a Laker fan spending hours and hours of analyzing Brandon Ingram and spinning it to make him look as good as possible. Lakers fans are resigned to the fact they lost out on the top pick in the lottery and lost out on the prize they wanted in Simmons.

Then you cherry pick Simmons' last game of his career, probably his worst, where the game was over within minutes to nitpick his play.

I'd take Simmons or Ingram, prefer Simmons by quite a bit though. Even more after reading your posts every day.

We're lucky to have a shot at either of these guys, but some have to negatively knock one or the other to feed some sort of agenda and/or their own ego.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1423 » by FreesFro » Wed May 25, 2016 3:30 pm

FreesFro wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Agnostifarian wrote:
Here's my take on the "Simmons Resurgence" in the polls. ESPN anointed Simmons as the next coming prior to the NCAA season. However, as the games played out, Simmons showed some warts and Ingram surprised many. NCAA fans and scouts spent the winter months watching Simmons and Ingram play for their respective teams. Simmons game raised questions and Ingram's game answered questions. The NCAA games ended and we had a horserace.

Two months later, NBA fans tuned into the 2016 draft class. Many are making judgements based on internet chatter and/or video highlights as opposed to having watched extensive game footage of these prospects. The polls are moving as the lazy herd of ESPN disciples migrate through the draft season.

In the end, I will be freakin' psyched to support our #1 pick as either player will be a fine selection. I am still hoping that we make a deal with LAL and select Ingram and Simmons. Shoot the bullets, Bryan!! :rock:


Quote:
What makes people think that Ingram is a harder worker than Simmons? I've not seen anything to indicate Simmons isn't a hard worker or that he doesn't have a high work ethic on his basketball skills.


Simple.

Gained 20 pounds prior to season start.
Went from #4/#3 option, looking timid during his first 2 weeks of basketball.
Became #2 option, clearly under Grayson Allen
Turned himself borderline 3 and D beginning of the season. Slowly increased blocks and rebound rate.
Became an elite Iso player option at the NCAA level.
Two different months, shot 43% and 48% behind the arc.
Played out of position, from SF into PF while Amile Jefferson was out.

Ben Simmons did not have that progression. Basic statistics don't reveal role changes. They do show trends.

Duke, won more games, while being short-handed.
LSU, lost more games as the season progressed.

I don't buy the "well they faced better competition argument. Ingram found ways to excel DESPITE that. Duke won, DESPITE that.

But I can't hold Simmons to the same standard because of his coach? or the fact that Simmons never showed that kind of dramatic improvement as a midrange shooter?

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/ben-simmons-1/splits/2016/

As said before, the difference between December, his hottest month, and March, his 2nd coldest month, is obvious.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/ben-simmons-1/splits/2016/

From 65% FG to 54% FG
75%FT to 63%FT
22.5ppg to 16ppg
5.2apg to 3.1apg
1.3bpg to 0.25bpg

It's not the shooting that's the biggest problem. It's the fact that his elite skills with playmaking and defense all downtrended.

In December, Ben Simmons was obvious for #1 by lightyears.
By January I changed my mind and had Ingram #1.
By March, DX and other basketball outlets did the same.

The downward trend, is obvious.

Contrast Ingram:
November vs March
38.8% vs 40% FG
24% vs 42.5% 3pt FG
56% vs 66% FT
3.7rpg vs 7.42rpg
1apg vs 2.2apg
1.1stlpg vs 1.1stlpg
1.1bpg vs 1.1bpg
10.8ppg vs 18.86ppg


http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/brandon-ingram-1/splits/2016/

Outside of the shooting, everything else was either on par, or FAR better. Near double 3pt%. Double rebounding. Double assists. Near double scoring.

So I expect the next argument to be "Well Ben Simmons still has better overall averages for the season" to which I say, I'd rather have the guy that starts at a lower bar, and shows the continual improvement.

It didn't matter it was March.
It didnt matter that it was the ACC tournament with tougher competition
It didn't matter that Duke basically ran a 7-8 man rotation after Amile Jefferson got hurt.
Ingram improved. Ingram gained more responsibilities. Duke, succeeded.

Not bad for a guy that was basically 18.5 years old.

Imagine how well he would do if he was a full year older like Ben Simmons.

Brandon Ingram
NCAA tournament
23ppg
45%FG
37.5% 3ptFG
6rpg
2.1apg
1.1stlpg
1bpg
1 TOpg

Ben Simmons Conference Tournament (DNQ NCAA, Denied NIT)
12.5ppg
52.6%RT
10rpg
1apg
1stlpg
0.5bpg
3TOpg

That's why I have Ingram as my #1.
_________________



Saw this in a lakers forum. Not my post so don't kill the messenger.

P.S. If there's a flaw in Ingram that I see is his low FG% that I guess would persist until he gain strength. Yes, Ingram had a really bad first month but eventually gain momentum and his improvement has been noticeable. And with Simmons, I've posted the highlight video of his last game against Texas A&M where he struggled against long defenders and defense sagging off him or forcing him left.


I'll absolutely shoot the messenger here. First you reference a post from a Laker fan spending hours and hours of analyzing Brandon Ingram and spinning it to make him look as good as possible. Lakers fans are resigned to the fact they lost out on the top pick in the lottery and lost out on the prize they wanted in Simmons. Of course they want to paint Ingram as their guy and the better player.

Then you cherry pick Simmons' last game of his career, probably his worst, where the game was over within minutes to nitpick his play.

I'd take Simmons or Ingram, prefer Simmons by quite a bit though. Even more after reading your posts every day.

We're lucky to have a shot at either of these guys, but some have to negatively knock one or the other to feed some sort of agenda and/or their own ego.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1424 » by 76ciology » Wed May 25, 2016 3:50 pm

FreesFro wrote:
FreesFro wrote:
76ciology wrote:


Saw this in a lakers forum. Not my post so don't kill the messenger.

P.S. If there's a flaw in Ingram that I see is his low FG% that I guess would persist until he gain strength. Yes, Ingram had a really bad first month but eventually gain momentum and his improvement has been noticeable. And with Simmons, I've posted the highlight video of his last game against Texas A&M where he struggled against long defenders and defense sagging off him or forcing him left.


I'll absolutely shoot the messenger here. First you reference a post from a Laker fan spending hours and hours of analyzing Brandon Ingram and spinning it to make him look as good as possible. Lakers fans are resigned to the fact they lost out on the top pick in the lottery and lost out on the prize they wanted in Simmons. Of course they want to paint Ingram as their guy and the better player.

Then you cherry pick Simmons' last game of his career, probably his worst, where the game was over within minutes to nitpick his play.

I'd take Simmons or Ingram, prefer Simmons by quite a bit though. Even more after reading your posts every day.

We're lucky to have a shot at either of these guys, but some have to negatively knock one or the other to feed some sort of agenda and/or their own ego.


Whole point of the post was showing how one prospect declined as the season go and the other improved as he get acclimated and was given more responsibilities.

For instance, Ingram shot 77-78FT% in HS. He shot 56% on his first month. That might show that he might be going through some adjustment period in his first month in Duke. Maybe with the style of play and his role with duke.

Regarding Simmons' game against Texas A&M, it's just the icing on the cake on his declining performance.

Texas A&M is the best defensive team in SEC. http://kenpom.com/index.php?s=RankAdjDE
They defended with length and with a plan.
Simmons faced them for 3 times.
He has 3/9, 4/11 & 4/11 shooting against them. So I wouldn't say I was nitpicking.
He shot 32FG% in three games against them.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1425 » by 76ciology » Wed May 25, 2016 3:56 pm

Kobblehead wrote:I was Team Ingram coming out of highschool. He underperformed for top prospect standards and Simmons did not, so I began to value Ben higher. I don't subscribe to the concept that Ingram developed momentum from his on-court performance. His play during his freshman season had the opposite effect, in my eyes.


Kobble, I value your opinion.

But could it be because Ingram is going through some transition early on. We all know he lacks strength and the game is much physical in NCAA than HS. Thus, you see how senior guys usually get god-like stats using their experience, physicality and skillset.

While Simmons on court skill is undeniably good, but one factor he looked THAT good early on is he's a unique player so teams aren't used to defending that type of player (do you put a wing or a big against him and etc.) and he's basically a sophomore. Then as time goes, teams scouted Simmons and the weak LSU squad that they end up having effective defensive game plan down the season that hurt Simmons's stats and the team W-L record?
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1426 » by FreesFro » Wed May 25, 2016 4:06 pm

76, it is nitpicking. You cherry picked a few bad games and pointed it out as an issue. I can do that for any player in the history of basketball.

I'll do the same, but not to the degree you did. I'll take a larger sample size. For being this supposed great, advanced for his age shooter Ingram shot less than 50% in a majority of his games. Why is that?
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1427 » by Negrodamus » Wed May 25, 2016 4:14 pm

76ciology wrote:
FreesFro wrote:
FreesFro wrote:
I'll absolutely shoot the messenger here. First you reference a post from a Laker fan spending hours and hours of analyzing Brandon Ingram and spinning it to make him look as good as possible. Lakers fans are resigned to the fact they lost out on the top pick in the lottery and lost out on the prize they wanted in Simmons. Of course they want to paint Ingram as their guy and the better player.

Then you cherry pick Simmons' last game of his career, probably his worst, where the game was over within minutes to nitpick his play.

I'd take Simmons or Ingram, prefer Simmons by quite a bit though. Even more after reading your posts every day.

We're lucky to have a shot at either of these guys, but some have to negatively knock one or the other to feed some sort of agenda and/or their own ego.


Whole point of the post was showing how one prospect declined as the season go and the other improved as he get acclimated and was given more responsibilities.

For instance, Ingram shot 77-78FT% in HS. He shot 56% on his first month. That might show that he might be going through some adjustment period in his first month in Duke. Maybe with the style of play and his role with duke.

Regarding Simmons' game against Texas A&M, it's just the icing on the cake on his declining performance.

Texas A&M is the best defensive team in SEC. http://kenpom.com/index.php?s=RankAdjDE
They defended with length and with a plan.
Simmons faced them for 3 times.
He has 3/9, 4/11 & 4/11 shooting against them. So I wouldn't say I was nitpicking.
He shot 32FG% in three games against them.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWiB2gc8zxs[/youtube]



Hey man, no criticizing Simmons, even with statistics that show his regression as the season went on. Just watch his 43 pt, 14 rb, 7 ast, and 5 stl game against North Florida (a game they almost lost) on repeat.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1428 » by cksdayoff » Wed May 25, 2016 4:32 pm

i read a story how he was going up against walk-ons before and early part of the college season, that's why he was struggling, struggling enough to get benched. Then his dad kicked his ass, and made him play against stronger guys, which kinda turned his season around
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1429 » by Kobblehead » Wed May 25, 2016 4:40 pm

Brandon Ingram was held to 30% shooting 12 times this year.
He was held to 20% shooting 4 times.
He was even held with a FG% in the teens against Kentucky.

Criticizing Ben Simmons' Texas A&M performance is yet another example of Team Ingram exerting pressure that their man would absolutely crumble under.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1430 » by 76ciology » Wed May 25, 2016 4:44 pm

FreesFro wrote:76, it is nitpicking. You cherry picked a few bad games and pointed it out as an issue. I can do that for any player in the history of basketball.

I'll do the same, but not to the degree you did. I'll take a larger sample size. For being this supposed great, advanced for his age shooter Ingram shot less than 50% in a majority of his games. Why is that?


Because 40% of his FG% are 3pt shots. And he is shooting 41% from it.

Say he took 100% of his shots at the rim, he'd average 58FG%. :)
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1431 » by Negrodamus » Wed May 25, 2016 4:57 pm

I'm fine with criticizing Ingram's shooting, especially when most of the criticism comes early in the season when he was 2-3 months off of his 18 year old birthday. Yes, Ingram started college as a 17 year old. He also had to physically and mentally catch up to the speed and strength of college basketball.

While he did have a few off shooting nights, because he actually SHOOTS the ball, towards the end of the season, he definitely came into his own as a college player.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1432 » by FreesFro » Wed May 25, 2016 5:00 pm

...
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1433 » by FreesFro » Wed May 25, 2016 5:02 pm

76ciology wrote:
FreesFro wrote:76, it is nitpicking. You cherry picked a few bad games and pointed it out as an issue. I can do that for any player in the history of basketball.

I'll do the same, but not to the degree you did. I'll take a larger sample size. For being this supposed great, advanced for his age shooter Ingram shot less than 50% in a majority of his games. Why is that?


Because 40% of his FG% are 3pt shots. And he is shooting 41% from it.

Say he took 100% of his shots at the rim, he'd average 58FG%. :)


And that is a brutal % to shoot at the rim. It's not going to get any easier for him in the NBA. He better put on 50lbs. When his shot isn't falling from deep he'll struggle to score his first few years.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1434 » by 76ciology » Wed May 25, 2016 5:06 pm

Negrodamus wrote:I'm fine with criticizing Ingram's shooting, especially when most of the criticism comes early in the season when he was 2-3 months off of his 18 year old birthday. Yes, Ingram started college as a 17 year old. He also had to physically and mentally catch up to the speed and strength of college basketball.

While he did have a few off shooting nights, because he actually SHOOTS the ball, towards the end of the season, he definitely came into his own as a college player.


If you disregard his 1st month, he averaged 43.5% 3pt%, 45FG% and 71FT%. I do think he is a much better FT shooter than the 68% average for he shot 77-78% in HS.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1435 » by FreesFro » Wed May 25, 2016 5:08 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Brandon Ingram was held to 30% shooting 12 times this year.
He was held to 20% shooting 4 times.
He was even held with a FG% in the teens against Kentucky.

Criticizing Ben Simmons' Texas A&M performance is yet another example of Team Ingram exerting pressure that their man would absolutely crumble under.


Hmm. Those are some bad games.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1436 » by 76ciology » Wed May 25, 2016 5:09 pm

FreesFro wrote:
76ciology wrote:
FreesFro wrote:76, it is nitpicking. You cherry picked a few bad games and pointed it out as an issue. I can do that for any player in the history of basketball.

I'll do the same, but not to the degree you did. I'll take a larger sample size. For being this supposed great, advanced for his age shooter Ingram shot less than 50% in a majority of his games. Why is that?


Because 40% of his FG% are 3pt shots. And he is shooting 41% from it.

Say he took 100% of his shots at the rim, he'd average 58FG%. :)


And that is a brutal % to shoot at the rim. It's not going to get any easier for him in the NBA. He better put on 50lbs. When his shot isn't falling from deep he'll struggle to score his first few years.


haha yeah, that's not a good number that's why I put a smiley there.

My point is more of majority of his shots were 3s, while he still lack strength to be a good finisher around the rim. Plus, he really did have a rough transition to start the month of his NCAA career. If you disregard that month, he'd average around 45FG%, 43.5 3pt% and 71FT%.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1437 » by Negrodamus » Wed May 25, 2016 5:09 pm

FreesFro wrote:
76ciology wrote:
FreesFro wrote:76, it is nitpicking. You cherry picked a few bad games and pointed it out as an issue. I can do that for any player in the history of basketball.

I'll do the same, but not to the degree you did. I'll take a larger sample size. For being this supposed great, advanced for his age shooter Ingram shot less than 50% in a majority of his games. Why is that?


Because 40% of his FG% are 3pt shots. And he is shooting 41% from it.

Say he took 100% of his shots at the rim, he'd average 58FG%. :)


And that is a brutal % to shoot at the rim. It's not going to get any easier for him in the NBA. He better put on 50lbs. When his shot isn't falling from deep he'll struggle to score his first few years.


Are you expecting us to compete for anything in the next year or two? He'll put on weight when basketball is his job and he doesn't have to attend classes anymore. Because, you know, he finished his classes and didn't drop out of school as soon as the basketball season ended.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1438 » by Kobblehead » Wed May 25, 2016 5:16 pm

I'm tired of attacking Ingram. I don't want to completely tear the kid down because I think he has good potential to be a solid 3rd or 4th best player on a good team. But Team Ingram and the media is propping him up to a caliber he just didn't reach based on his freshman year.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1439 » by FreesFro » Wed May 25, 2016 5:16 pm

76ciology wrote:
FreesFro wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Because 40% of his FG% are 3pt shots. And he is shooting 41% from it.

Say he took 100% of his shots at the rim, he'd average 58FG%. :)


And that is a brutal % to shoot at the rim. It's not going to get any easier for him in the NBA. He better put on 50lbs. When his shot isn't falling from deep he'll struggle to score his first few years.


haha yeah, that's not a good number that's why I put a smiley there.

My point is more of majority of his shots were 3s, while he still lack strength to be a good finisher around the rim. Plus, he really did have a rough transition to start the month of his NCAA career. If you disregard that month, he'd average around 45FG%, 43.5 3pt% and 71FT%.


I get it. I like Ingram a lot. If we had the #2 pick I'd be ecstatic to have him. But we have #1 and there's a better player out there. Just my opinion.
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Re: Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll 

Post#1440 » by FreesFro » Wed May 25, 2016 5:20 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
FreesFro wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Because 40% of his FG% are 3pt shots. And he is shooting 41% from it.

Say he took 100% of his shots at the rim, he'd average 58FG%. :)


And that is a brutal % to shoot at the rim. It's not going to get any easier for him in the NBA. He better put on 50lbs. When his shot isn't falling from deep he'll struggle to score his first few years.


Are you expecting us to compete for anything in the next year or two? He'll put on weight when basketball is his job and he doesn't have to attend classes anymore. Because, you know, he finished his classes and didn't drop out of school as soon as the basketball season ended.


No, not compete. Yes, I want to win more than 10 games though.

Could care less if he left school or not. Means absolutely nothing. Heck, just about every stud college football player is gone from school in the spring and working towards the combine and individual workouts.

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