2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread III

[ET Da Gawd]

We need Monk (Booker 2.0) or Tatum (Paul George 2.0)


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You also think Okafor is a beast too should start with Embiid too right?

Yup, being facetious don't bother me, look at these playoffs, all small teams...Better pray josh can really shoot or we have the same issue


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[No-Man]

I'll disagree with you here. I think Tatum has as good, if not better, handle than Jackson. I also think at the next level, Tatum will flourish as a shooter while Jackson will struggle with his weird form. Tatum, to me, is an infinitely better scorer than Jackson.

Defensively, it's quite clear, Jackson is better. He's also a better distributor.

But it's not like Tatum is bad at defense. Held opponent FG to 32%. I also don't think Tatum's best place is in the post on defense. Check out this video:

Watch on YouTube

Pretty rough in the post. Jackson is actually a much better post defender than Tatum.

As prospects, they are very close, IMO. I just have Tatum higher.

Thank goodness the 76ers already have Simmons and Saric (I never thought I'd say that). Now I don't have to worry about them reaching for Tatum at the 3rd pick.

Why would you be concerned about PFs when talking about a wing prospect?

Because Tatum is a PF too, I think Jackson ideally gets there too but has enough flexibility to play as a 3, I don't see Tatum playing the 3 and that team been successful offensively honestly.

[Negrodamus]

Nah, he's a small forward.

[No-Man]

Nah, he's a small forward.

Yeah, in the same way Harrison Barnes is a small forward

Good luck with him creating/having any space if guarded by true wing players or if surrounded by only two other perimeter guys as shooters.

[Negrodamus]

Nah, he's a small forward.

Yeah, in the same way Harrison Barnes is a small forward

Good luck with him creating/having any space if guarded by true wing players or if surrounded by only two other perimeter guys as shooters.

Thanks! Good luck to you too!

[76ciology]

#5 and Skal Labissiere

I'll save you time, both teams are better off not doing the trade.

that's actually a compliment. thanks.

Both teams highly value their picks but on different range relative to total assets of each team. A $1000 maybe expensive to a average guy but cheap to a rich guy.

[Kobblehead]

Yeah, in the same way Harrison Barnes is a small forward

I'm not sure if I follow this take.

[No-Man]

I'd say this, there is a way where Tatum fits that is intriguing, if Simmons is good enough as an athlete to be a threat non-stop to go to the rim, even w/o ideal spacing, teams are gonna put their best wing defender on him and that means that either you stick a big on Tatum that he can dribble and blow by, or a smaller guy that he can abuse, that part of it is interesting.

on D is another story, I think both Tatum and Simmons ideally defend the same position, but Embiid solves so many issues that it might not matter

Anyway, DSJ, Jackson and Tatum are all legit guys and I think the 76ers are okay with any of them

[KrazySixersD]

if embiid and simmons stay healthy and we DONT make the playoffs next year as atleast an 8 seed, something has gone horribly wrong and our future is not as bright as we think

[76ciology]

Wiggins or Josh Jackson as prospect coming out of college and without the hype?

I've been talking about this all night/day now with a few guys. It's certainly debatable.

Wiggins was really hyped.
32.5 Mpg 17 ppg 49/34/77 6 rpg 1.5 apg 1blk 1stl 2to

Jackson:
31 mpg 16 ppg 55/38/57 7.4 rpg 3 apg 2stl 1blk 3to

Wiggins has the better measurables due to length. Outside of that, they are pretty damn similar in terms of athleticism. Jackson actually seems to play quicker imo.

Wiggins' shot mechanics looked better, but outside of FT%....the numbers are actually in JJ's favor, even from 3.

Defensively, Jackson gets the edge from me. Wiggins was always "projected" to have the tools to be An elite defender, mainly due to his size/length/athletic ability.

All in all...if we're talking straight up prospects at the same time entering the NBA after freshmen years, Wiggins would probably get the slight edge just based on his measurables/athleticism and projected scoring ability and the hype. But Jackson is right there and arguably better.Despite a abysmal FT% he scored just as well as Wiggins, defended better, was a better all around player and plays with a high motor, something Wiggins lacked.

Jackson is a hell of a prospect. Slightly improve his FT% to 70% and he's close to a 20 ppg scorer in college, on top of rebounding at a high level, defending at a high level and even making plays for others as a secondary playmaker.

In like the last 20games, I thought Josh Jackson broke away from the Wiggins standard in terms of production. Wiggins selling point is his elite length and athleticism. I believe he has 9' standing reach and like 40" vert. Thats otherworldly. Too bad he's got questionable IQ, something I've raised before.

I think that skillset and IQ are increasing in value over athleticism (heavy on read and react), that if you put that into consideration then maybe JJ could be the better prospect.

[eagereyez]

Wiggins or Josh Jackson as prospect coming out of college and without the hype?

I've been talking about this all night/day now with a few guys. It's certainly debatable.

Wiggins was really hyped.
32.5 Mpg 17 ppg 49/34/77 6 rpg 1.5 apg 1blk 1stl 2to

Jackson:
31 mpg 16 ppg 55/38/57 7.4 rpg 3 apg 2stl 1blk 3to

Wiggins has the better measurables due to length. Outside of that, they are pretty damn similar in terms of athleticism. Jackson actually seems to play quicker imo.

Wiggins' shot mechanics looked better, but outside of FT%....the numbers are actually in JJ's favor, even from 3.

Defensively, Jackson gets the edge from me. Wiggins was always "projected" to have the tools to be An elite defender, mainly due to his size/length/athletic ability.

All in all...if we're talking straight up prospects at the same time entering the NBA after freshmen years, Wiggins would probably get the slight edge just based on his measurables/athleticism and projected scoring ability and the hype. But Jackson is right there and arguably better.Despite a abysmal FT% he scored just as well as Wiggins, defended better, was a better all around player and plays with a high motor, something Wiggins lacked.

Jackson is a hell of a prospect. Slightly improve his FT% to 70% and he's close to a 20 ppg scorer in college, on top of rebounding at a high level, defending at a high level and even making plays for others as a secondary playmaker.

In like the last 20games, I thought Josh Jackson broke away from the Wiggins standard in terms of production. Wiggins selling point is his elite length and athleticism. I believe he has 9' standing reach and like 40" vert. Thats otherworldly. Too bad he's got questionable IQ, something I've raised before.

I think that skillset and IQ are increasing in value over athleticism (heavy on read and react), that if you put that into consideration then maybe JJ could be the better prospect.

Agreed. IQ is becoming more and more imortant with the focus on team and help defense. TJ McConnell has no business being a better defender than a freak athlete like Westbrook. Length and athleticism seem to be more imortant for rim protectors.

[Kobblehead]

Is Wiggins salvageable, in terms of developing into a player conducive to winning?

Having his worst metric value season as a pro in Year 3 is pretty concerning.

He's now a 30% usage player with no defensive effort. Can you reign a guy in from that? Derozan is a case-study that suggests you cannot.

[76ciology]

Is Wiggins salvageable, in terms of developing into a player conducive to winning?

Having his worst metric value season as a pro in Year 3 is pretty concerning.

He's now a 30% usage player with no defensive effort. Can you reign a guy in from that? Derozan is a case-study that suggests you cannot.

Yes. Bring him to a play-off team that can afford to lessen his usage or a good system like Celtics, Spurs or Hawks that forces him to move the ball and surgically attack the holes of opponents D. Maybe a role similar to Kawhi or a small ball PF for the Hawks.

His rebounding problem is because of him trying to leak out A LOT for transition offense.

Defensively, I don't see him getting deflections because he's poor at reading on D. He's D is only getting saved because of his length and athleticism, but he can't read and anticipate on D (see his D on RoCo's winning shot against the Wolves)

[Kobblehead]

Yes. Bring him to a play-off team that can afford to lessen his usage or a good system like Celtics, Spurs or Hawks that forces him to move the ball and surgically attack the holes of opponents D. Maybe a role similar to Kawhi or a small ball PF for the Hawks.

His rebounding problem is because of him trying to leak out A LOT for transition offense.

Defensively, I don't see him getting deflections because he's poor at reading on D. He's D is only getting saved because of his length and athleticism, but he can't read and anticipate on D (see his D on RoCo's winning shot against the Wolves)

That's the ideal thing to do. Lesson his usage, have him move the ball more and spend more energy on defense. What I'm asking is if it's likely to occur.

Kawhi and Butler were developed with an entire different approach. Both were crawl-walked as defensive role players and gradually given more usage and offensive workload.

Wiggins was given free reign to go ham on offense and wound up having no fundamental growth or accountability on the defensive end. Can you reset him and re-develop his game or has there been too much time for him to grow arrogance of being a 20 point scorer to change?

[the_process]

Yes. Bring him to a play-off team that can afford to lessen his usage or a good system like Celtics, Spurs or Hawks that forces him to move the ball and surgically attack the holes of opponents D. Maybe a role similar to Kawhi or a small ball PF for the Hawks.

His rebounding problem is because of him trying to leak out A LOT for transition offense.

Defensively, I don't see him getting deflections because he's poor at reading on D. He's D is only getting saved because of his length and athleticism, but he can't read and anticipate on D (see his D on RoCo's winning shot against the Wolves)

That's the ideal thing to do. Lesson his usage, have him move the ball more and spend more energy on defense. What I'm asking is if it's likely to occur.

Kawhi and Butler were developed with an entire different approach. Both were crawl-walked as defensive role players and gradually given more usage and offensive workload.

Wiggins was given free reign to go ham on offense and wound up having no fundamental growth or accountability on the defensive end. Can you reset him and re-develop his game or has there been too much time for him to grow arrogance of being a 20 point scorer to change?

Would have to be a vet winning team with a strong HC and established stars IMO. Spurs, Dubs... maybe a couple others? Otherwise I think Wiggins is just another DeRozan. Damn waste of his talent, too.

[76ciology]

Yes. Bring him to a play-off team that can afford to lessen his usage or a good system like Celtics, Spurs or Hawks that forces him to move the ball and surgically attack the holes of opponents D. Maybe a role similar to Kawhi or a small ball PF for the Hawks.

His rebounding problem is because of him trying to leak out A LOT for transition offense.

Defensively, I don't see him getting deflections because he's poor at reading on D. He's D is only getting saved because of his length and athleticism, but he can't read and anticipate on D (see his D on RoCo's winning shot against the Wolves)

That's the ideal thing to do. Lesson his usage, have him move the ball more and spend more energy on defense. What I'm asking is if it's likely to occur.

Kawhi and Butler were developed with an entire different approach. Both were crawl-walked as defensive role players and gradually given more usage and offensive workload.

Wiggins was given free reign to go ham on offense and wound up having no fundamental growth or accountability on the defensive end. Can you reset him and re-develop his game or has there been too much time for him to grow arrogance of being a 20 point scorer to change?

he'll do whatever gets him better chance for a max payday. And right now I think his people are telling him that his current style will get him that.

Easier to convince Kawhi or JB to earn it the hard way since both were projected mere role players coming out of college.

[Kobblehead]

It's a shame he didn't get to stay in Cleveland and develop on a slower, more responsible path. His current offensive talent combined with a couple years of defensive cultivation and LeBron tutelage could have made him one of the best young players in the league. As it stands now, he's all style, very little substance.

[Kobblehead]

Easier to convince Kawhi or JB to earn it the hard way since both were projected mere role players coming out of college.

This is a good point.

It also makes me ponder and respect Brandon Ingram a little more for not coming into the Lakers organization and trying to establish himself as a 20 point scorer as quick as possible.

He embraced a sub-17% usage role and focused more on the defensive end. He struggled mightily as a rookie, but as it stands now, his defense is ahead of his offense. Which is a good spot for him to be in, given that his pure stroke will surely have him come around on that end of the court in due time.

[PLO]

Another good thing about Jackson...


The guy could be the wing that we need that can defend PGs. Reminds me of how irritating Elfrid Payton is on D. He can also has the quickness to push the ball like a PG.

It's just I really think opponents will let their PG defend Covington. If only we can have two josh jackson we can murder every PG in the league everynight hahaha

What makes you think that Josh Jackson can defend quick guards? It's an honest question, the +/- 10 games I've seen from Kansas there weren't many occasions that he defended these kind of players. If you remember a game I'd love to watch it back.

He struggled vs athletic guards, got blown by pretty regularly, especially in the later half of the season - as his offence got better his defence really slipped. As a top 3 prospect he's pretty meh all in all.

[LeonJordanJr24]

The only player that meets Jackson's tenacity, defensive, motor, skill, intangibles and versatility is Fox . The Sixers need that in top 3 more than 3pt shooting role player.