Official Andre Iguodala Trade Discussion and Rumors Thread

Post #1461 » by **Sixerscan** » Sun May 29, 2011 9:38 pm

That was with him... with a rookie Holiday, Brand not being 100%, Dalembert not caring, and Young being out to lunch. And Willie Green/Iverson/Kapono instead of Turner/Meeks. Oh and the worst coach in the world.

edit- this batum thing is a complete fantasy salarywise so I don't get how anyone can get attached to it

If you want Turner on the floor more... put him on the floor more and put Meeks/Williams out there less. Or better yet trade Meeks or Williams for that big.

Kobblehead · Post #1462 » by **Kobblehead** » Sun May 29, 2011 9:50 pm

The only way this team loses 50 games with Kamen is if he misses 30 or more games due to injury (very likely). If he stays healthy for all 82 games (unlikely) they are a lock for 47-50 wins and the 5th seed.

ProcessDoctor · Post #1463 » by **ProcessDoctor** » Sun May 29, 2011 9:53 pm

The Oden trade would have to be assuming a S & T with Oden of course.

Mik317 · Post #1464 » by **Mik317** » Sun May 29, 2011 9:53 pm

They'd still win 41 games....Kaman isn't that good. Iggy Isn't that bad so it kinda cancels each other out. Neither are that big difference makers in the long run although...I will say this. Iggy was injured the entire season as well as being tired from the WBC...jus sayin.

Kobblehead · Post #1465 » by **Kobblehead** » Sun May 29, 2011 10:00 pm

What do you mean Kaman isn't that good? When healthy, he's one of the top centers in the league on both ends of the floor.

Post #1466 » by **Sixerscan** » Sun May 29, 2011 10:02 pm

sixers238 wrote:The Oden trade would have to be assuming a S & T with Oden of course.

Well there's a couple of things wrong with that. First (as I said) a S+T guy has to be traded by himself (IE not with Batum). Second, you're expecting a lot of variables to fall the Sixers way (like Oden wanting to come here, and agreeing to a non-ridiculous contract). Trades like this never happen. (Well, it happened with the Knicks and Eddy Curry, that turned out great)

To say nothing of the fact that the owners are probably going to get rid of S+Ts in the next CBA (To further incentivize Stars to stay with their teams)

All in all, yeah I'm still calling bull on that ever being a possibility.

Post #1467 » by **Sixerscan** » Sun May 29, 2011 10:09 pm

Kobblehead wrote:The only way this team loses 50 games with Kamen is if he misses 30 or more games due to injury (very likely). If he stays healthy for all 82 games (unlikely) they are a lock for 47-50 wins and the 5th seed.

Well if Kaman is healthy, not just playing in games, but in his 09/10 form, he's a borderline all-star.

Three out of the last 4 years though, he's gotten hurt. He's 29 now. If he couldn't stay healthy in his mid 20s, what chance does he have now?

Kobblehead · Post #1468 » by **Kobblehead** » Sun May 29, 2011 10:29 pm

At 1 year $12 million, I'd take the risk.

SouthJersey · Post #1469 » by **SouthJersey** » Sun May 29, 2011 10:36 pm

I'd rather give Oden 1 year at 12 million

Post #1470 » by **HartfordWhalers** » Sun May 29, 2011 10:41 pm

Kobblehead wrote:What do you mean Kaman isn't that good? When healthy, he's one of the top centers in the league on both ends of the floor.

That is crazy talk.

Even ignoring the injury probability and the physical decline.

http://www.82games.com/0910/09LAC17.HTM

In his "all star" and healthy year, Kaman was consistently outperformed by the average player he faced. So either the average center playing Kaman is also a top center in the league (or better), or Kaman is an inefficient chucker and turnover machine who put up a decent amount of points on horrific efficiency while being lit up defensively in his one healthy year sandwiched between several injury plagued ones.

How inefficient was Kaman's one year?
By win shares he ranks just between ZaZa and Hawes.
http://bkref.com/tiny/aaS0p
Even by PER which is biased to increase with fga's and usage, Kaman was less useful then Dalembert that year. And that is a stat that doesn't even remotely measure and penalize porous defense.

Calling Kaman a top center in the league is just crazy talk.

Kobblehead · Post #1471 » by **Kobblehead** » Sun May 29, 2011 10:51 pm

I don't care how overrated he was in the 2009 season. All I care about is that he's put up 12, 8, and 1.5 over his 8 seasons despite playing for a joke of an organization with no direction.

I'm betting that the current structure in Philadelphia would bring out the best in him and he would be a difference maker.

And like I said earlier, if all else fails, he's only signed for 1 year 12 million.

Post #1472 » by **HartfordWhalers** » Sun May 29, 2011 11:01 pm

Kobblehead wrote:I don't care how overrated he was in the 2009 season. All I care about is that he's put up 12, 8, and 1.5 over his 8 seasons despite playing for a joke of an organization with no direction.

I'm betting that the current structure in Philadelphia would bring out the best in him and he would be a difference maker.

And like I said earlier, if all else fails, he's only signed for 1 year 12 million.

To put up 11.8 points, the guy uses 12.3 possessions.

Giving him the ball is like trying to make it up on volume when you are losing money per sale.

Post #1473 » by **Sixerscan** » Mon May 30, 2011 12:37 am

SouthJersey wrote:I'd rather give Oden 1 year at 12 million

I'd rather give LeBron 1 year 12 million

You aren't just giving up a one year commitment to Kaman. You're also giving up our best player with no proven way to replace him.

Kobblehead · Post #1474 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon May 30, 2011 12:53 am

You're also giving up our best player

Not willing to give up Andre because he's our best player doesn't concern me. This time next year, Andre could very well be our 3rd best player.

with no proven way to replace him.

Andre isn't exactly a top commodity that has suitors lining up around the block. Finding someone willing to absorb the rest of Andre's contract and give us value in return is next to impossible.

Post #1475 » by **Sixerscan** » Mon May 30, 2011 1:30 am

If Iguodala is our 3rd best player next year, then we definitely don't want to dump him because we could very well be in the Eastern Conference Finals.

Andre isn't exactly a top commodity that has suitors lining up around the block. Finding someone willing to absorb the rest of Andre's contract and give us value in return is next to impossible.

His value as a commodity to us is completely difference than what it is to the 29 other teams. For a team to trade for Andre, they have to give up assets, assets they can use to acquire other players. They won't give fair value for Andre, because they can just turn around and get an inferior player for less assets. This is why teams trading good players for relief always lose.

The only time when this doesn't happen is a situation like the Carmelo trade; The Knicks were pigeon-holed into the thought that they HAD to get Anthony. Therefore, for once the team trading the good player had the advantage. This will not happen with Iguodala.

We don't have to give up anything to get Iguodala; he's already on our team. Not only that, if we give him up, we don't have to cap room to replace him. Therefore, his value for us specifically is even higher.

In any event, justifying trading someone by saying no one is willing to give you fair value for him is hilariously backwards. How about this; just don't trade him!

Kobblehead · Post #1476 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon May 30, 2011 1:47 am

Andre's not a top commodity as in nobody is looking to add a lockdown defender for $40+ million over the next 3 years.

Sixerscan wrote:In any event, justifying trading someone by saying no one is willing to give you fair value for him is hilariously backwards

My justification for trading Andre has nothing to do with the value we get in return in any deal. I won't even get into that discussion, though.

Post #1477 » by **Sixerscan** » Mon May 30, 2011 1:58 am

Ignoring Iguodala's offensive value is just lazy. To quote Bodner; He's one of 7 people over 6'4" in NBA history to average 6+ APG with better than a 3:1 Assist to Turnover ratio. He's a great ball handler. I SHUDDER to think what would have happened this year if Holiday, Williams, and Turner were running the point the whole time.

And yeah, he was one of the three or four best wing defenders in the game. I guess that's a little thing.

The guy made our team go. Turner hasn't done anything but have a disappointing rookie year. Dumping Iguodala so turner can play more would just be irresponsible.

In fact, given that you clearly think Turner or Holiday have more value, why not trade one of them (My pick is Turner) for someone that fits better with Andre? That way we have the best player AND someone who compliments him, rather than the worse player and nothing of much value coming back for Squiggs

Kobblehead · Post #1478 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon May 30, 2011 2:08 am

Sixerscan wrote:someone that fits better with Andre?

Andre is not a transcendent player so finding someone to fit next to him is not a priority.

Post #1479 » by **Sixerscan** » Mon May 30, 2011 2:11 am

Turner and Holiday are?

Actually, Holliday and Iguodala fit well together. So Turner's 8/4 or whatever he had this year is worth dumping Iguodala?

Kobblehead · Post #1480 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon May 30, 2011 2:14 am

Sixerscan wrote:Turner and Holiday are?

Actually, Holliday and Iguodala fit well together. So Turner's 8/4 or whatever he had this year is worth dumping Iguodala?

Not saying that they are. But both being in their early 20's and on their rookie deals makes it ideal to give them an evaluation period to see if they can develop accordingly.