Playoffs!?

[Jailblazers7]

I just don’t see how the Sixers FO is under any more pressure than other teams with an MVP caliber player & an open championship window. In addition to that, we’ve had a rotating cast of decision makers who are totally disconnected from & unconcerned with the process era. It’s just not a very compelling explanation of what has happened over the past 5-6 years.

[Stanford]

when you ask the fanbase to tolerate multiple years of intentional losing for the purpose of acquiring the players necessary to win a championship, it creates a tremendous accountability within the organization to make good on that and indeed win a championship. That in turn generates tremendous pressure on the personnel men and coaches within the organization, as well as a coddling, overvaluing, and lack of accountability of the star players acquired. None of that is consistent with the development of a winning culture.

I can't think of having read a more incoherent paragraph in my time on Realgm.com. Congrats, man.

[Ferry Avenue]

I just don’t see how the Sixers FO is under any more pressure than other teams with an MVP caliber player & an open championship window. In addition to that, we’ve had a rotating cast of decision makers who are totally disconnected from & unconcerned with the process era. It’s just not a very compelling explanation of what has happened over the past 5-6 years.

Other teams haven't asked their fanbases to tolerate multiple years of intentional losing, with the implicit promise that the front office has the ability to acquire the players necessary to win a championship as a function of the losing. There is no such extreme accountability to the fanbase that exists within other organizations -- they're simply trudging along, doing their best to win, whereas the Sixers essentially told their fanbase "if you sit around and watch us lose on purpose for multiple years and essentially have nothing to root for, we'll win you a championship." Why do you think the mantra was "trust the process?" Because it requires trust -- fanbases don't like losing. If you're going to lose on purpose, there better be something big in it for me. Again, extreme accountability, unlike that for any other organization.

Whether the decision-makers since then were involved in the process is immaterial -- the fanbase is still "owed" a championship, and every decision-maker since then is well aware of that, thus creating the same dynamics within the organization. And even if the current organization is somehow in theory completely disconnected from the process (which it isn't), the development of a winning culture was nonetheless forestalled by "process" dynamics during preceding years, and we're seeing the fallout from that now, as this team struggles year after year to exhibit the culture necessary to advance deep into the playoffs.

[youngcrev]

It all plays in.

Spo is looking like the best coach in the league right now. His team plays with effort and confidence, and he seems to always put them in a position to be successful within their roles.

Riley finds these guys from the scrap heap that can fill roles for Spo, come in ready to work, and don't have big egos.

Jimmy is a maniac, and I think instills a lot of confidence in these guys that if they can keep it close, he'll bring it home for them. Even if he hasn't been delivering as frequently, I think that belief is there.

And with all that, it's still taken a good amount of luck to get them where they are with the talent deficit. It actually seems like they've been better off with some of the injuries they've had to Herro and Oladipo with how much some of these other guys have stepped up.

From a statistical point of view, the 3 point percentage differential has been pretty crazy, and I don't really know how to account for that.

Maybe the biggest takeaway from a league perspective is that now that with today's offenses being so highly reliant on 3 pointers, there's going to be a ton of variance in result, which could lead to greater parity in the league. Particularly when you don't have any singularly dominant super teams that stand out head and shoulders above everyone else from a talent perspective.

If the Heat manage to win a title, the whole damn league is gonna go into win-now mode.

[mjkvol]

I know everyone is piling on Ferry for the culture stuff and surely it cannot be the be-all and end-all for success, but I do think it holds some water.

Making it to the league with enough talent to land 3-4 comfortable contracts to make it to your early 30's is enough for at least half the players in the league.

Sometimes watching players on other teams like Miami in the big games next to a lot of Sixer players over the years, it is obvious who are really playing to win and who seem to shrink and just shrug their shoulders.

Might be a cringey WIP caller cliche to bring up culture, but Miami has been doing something right since they drafted Wade and even when they have a down season or miss the playoffs they bounce back quickly.

In a season in which the Sixers once again falter in the second round due primarily to insufficient culture, while an eight-seed beats multiple more physically talented playoff teams and makes a series of the NBA championship against a one-seed primarily because of its exceptional culture, the topic of team culture should be front and center on a Sixers' message board in my humble opinion.

That said, there is nothing forcing anyone to respond to posts about that topic. Everyone here is of course free to do as he or she chooses.

People respond because this is a forum designed for discussion, and your cluttering up threads by hammering away at the same damn thing over and over is annoying to many people.

No one here is even a little in doubt about the Sixers' issues and the difference between this organization and the Heat. Yet you feel the need to constantly bludgeon us with the same thing, regardless of the thread subject as if you are imparting some unheard wisdom.

Dude, we know. Trust me, everyone here understands what the Sixers problems are and why. Here's a suggestion - one time try participating in a discussion without trying to be the smartest guy in the room. Because trust me, you aren't.

[Mik317]

I mean the majority of the problems stem from the league office getting involved and basically ending the process with collars and his dad...and from then on each GM was desperate to prove themselves and made a bunch of win now moves to show that they were different.

not sure how you can place that on the process but go off king

[Ferry Avenue]

From a statistical point of view, the 3 point percentage differential has been pretty crazy, and I don't really know how to account for that.

Maybe the biggest takeaway from a league perspective is that now that with today's offenses being so highly reliant on 3 pointers, there's going to be a ton of variance in result, which could lead to greater parity in the league. Particularly when you don't have any singularly dominant super teams that stand out head and shoulders above everyone else from a talent perspective.

Correlation between point differential and 3P% by the Heat, game-by-game during the playoffs, is 0.39. Correlation between point differential and 3P% differential is 0.67.

Percentage of the variance in point differential accounted for jumps from 15% to 45% when you include what the Heat are doing to opposing teams' 3P shooting. If the Heat were shooting 3P just as well and not defending them as well, they'd be doing far more poorly.

[Ferry Avenue]

I mean the majority of the problems stem from the league office getting involved and basically ending the process with collars and his dad...and from then on each GM was desperate to prove themselves and made a bunch of win now moves to show that they were different.

not sure how you can place that on the process but go off king

As long as the fanbase is "owed" a championship for the intentional losing it endured and the organization knows it, the effects of the process will remain alive. That won't change until all the key players obtained during it are gone, thus signifying a move in another direction. As long as Embiid is here and the team is trying to win a championship with him, the process endures.

[GoSixersBro]

I mean the majority of the problems stem from the league office getting involved and basically ending the process with collars and his dad...and from then on each GM was desperate to prove themselves and made a bunch of win now moves to show that they were different.

not sure how you can place that on the process but go off king

This is a nice concise reply to any Howard Eskin esque take which blames Hinkie for stuff happening 7 years later lol. Well done.

[GoSixersBro]

I mean the majority of the problems stem from the league office getting involved and basically ending the process with collars and his dad...and from then on each GM was desperate to prove themselves and made a bunch of win now moves to show that they were different.

not sure how you can place that on the process but go off king

As long as the fanbase is "owed" a championship for the intentional losing it endured and the organization knows it, the effects of the process will remain alive. That won't change until all the key players obtained during it are gone, thus signifying a move in another direction. As long as Embiid is here and the team is trying to win a championship with him, the process endures.

This is severe cope. And I even agreed with you to an extent on your culture pitch, but this take above is nonsense.

It sounds like you just have a vendetta against Joel, which is fine, because he has glaring personality issues, but what would you have done differently than Hinkie? Rode Jrue Holiday into the dirt and keep picking in the 7-14 ranges for 5 years? Ah, the most tortuous days as a Sixer fan you must long for.

[Negrodamus]

The alternative to the fans being "owed" a championship is a fan base with no expectations and are apathetic, I guess. Works this season with Denver and Miami. Doesn't work for any LeBron led team, GSW, Toronto, etc.

[youngcrev]

From a statistical point of view, the 3 point percentage differential has been pretty crazy, and I don't really know how to account for that.

Maybe the biggest takeaway from a league perspective is that now that with today's offenses being so highly reliant on 3 pointers, there's going to be a ton of variance in result, which could lead to greater parity in the league. Particularly when you don't have any singularly dominant super teams that stand out head and shoulders above everyone else from a talent perspective.

Correlation between point differential and 3P% by the Heat, game-by-game during the playoffs, is 0.39. Correlation between point differential and 3P% differential is 0.67.

Percentage of the variance in point differential accounted for jumps from 15% to 45% when you include what the Heat are doing to opposing teams' 3P shooting. If the Heat were shooting 3P just as well and not defending them as well, they'd be doing far more poorly.

That's what I meant by differential. Their 3 point shooting vs their opponents. Which is at least partially luck driven, and that's being conservative.

Heat opponents are shooting 32.1% on open 3s (16.4 attempts) and and 36.9% on wide open looks (14.1 attempts).

Conversely they've shot 40.5% on open looks (14.8 attempts) and 44.8% on wide open looks (11.5 attempts).

Maybe there's something they are doing that's enabling them to skew those numbers in their favor, but my guess would be that they've consistently over performed on expected value of their shots while their opponents have under performed.

[Ferry Avenue]

I mean the majority of the problems stem from the league office getting involved and basically ending the process with collars and his dad...and from then on each GM was desperate to prove themselves and made a bunch of win now moves to show that they were different.

not sure how you can place that on the process but go off king

As long as the fanbase is "owed" a championship for the intentional losing it endured and the organization knows it, the effects of the process will remain alive. That won't change until all the key players obtained during it are gone, thus signifying a move in another direction. As long as Embiid is here and the team is trying to win a championship with him, the process endures.

This is severe cope. And I even agreed with you to an extent on your culture pitch, but this take above is nonsense.

It sounds like you just have a vendetta against Joel, which is fine, because he has glaring personality issues, but what would you have done differently than Hinkie? Rode Jrue Holiday into the dirt and keep picking in the 7-14 ranges for 5 years? Ah, the most tortuous days as a Sixer fan you must long for.

The process is a great way to obtain the resources necessary to acquire the players who in theory can win a championship. What it's not great at is generating a winning organizational culture, because it creates far too much accountability to the fanbase within the organization. You simply cannot promise a championship to your fans as a function of having them endure multiple seasons of intentional losing and having nothing to root for. There is but one team that wins a championship every year -- a low probability event of that nature cannot be what you "owe" your fanbase as a function of asking them to "trust" your intentional losing. Organizational dysfunction will ensue from that right and left.

[Bum Adebayo]

With Embiid on the team playing an important role, we will never do the mental reset that we need, that's for sure, Miami is teaching us how important mentality is.

[mjkvol]

The ignore feature on here doesn't go far enough.

[Negrodamus]

We don't need a mental reset. I have a degree in psychology and have watched quite a bit of the Sixers this year so I'm pretty sure I'm an authority on the matter.

[Mik317]

lol.

The only people who think they were owed anything are the same ones who pushed Hinkie out and are currently calling for everyone to be fired.

Its listening to those dinosaurs that led us to the exact situation we are in now IMO. The fans who were okay with "losing on purpose" were the patient ones. This twisted idea that the process was def going to lead to a chip is only parrotted by those were against it. The plan was to get the guy, identify if he is the guy, and build around said guy while maintaining the "optionality" to make moves at all times. After Collars and Friends took over; they never decided who to build around between Ben and Biid (and honestly built more around Ben's weaknesses than anything) and proceeded to chuck all assets less they look like Hinkie's kick the can strats for immediate gain. The selling of second round picks like candy, wasting the remaining 1sts on TLCs and Korkmaz' and Picnic Baskets because lol who needs em amirite...It was all hands on deck right now for immediate success...the absolute opposite of the process.

I am not one of the ones who worships the ground Hinkie walks on. I think drafting Jah was **** stupid and probably deservingly so cost him his job. But to this day people seem to not grasp the whole process idea.. The main theory was that this **** takes time and always having tools to pivot was the best way for THAT version of the Sixers to build. It got hijacked by dudes looking to prove that they deserved the job and the that method was bad and it has negatively effected the whole organization because now we probably can't take our time because we lack it but also we can't really make any moves because we lack assets. Those are two things a process allows a better run organization to do. Look at OKC...they fell backwards into a star in SGA and still have assets to burn and still have some on the way. The Celtics main core is full of top 5-7 picks...just because they came via other teams tanking doesn't change that. Our FO would have traded one of the Jays already. They would have thrown all of OKCs picks at some "star". So if there is any losing culture it is fully due to the FO being reactionary clowns who have backed themselves into so many corners. There are so many inflection points over the past few years that could have saved it (IMO going from a friendly coach in Brett to ...another one in Doc is an overlooked one IMO...Biid and Ben didn't need any more friend coaches at that point of their careers IMO; Boston got over their hump going from Stevens to Ime who would just call people bitches lol...and then go have sex with peoples wives...but still) but they either double down on the bad decision or pivoted to a worse one lol.

To blame that on the process and the fans is just flat out wrong IMO.

[Bum Adebayo]

Losing on purpose is a huge issue, it leads to bad culture, this is a fact. Of course, it doesn't help having missed on so many players, from Brett, Simmons, Okafor, Noel, and while Embiid is a good player, mentally he is just not good.

[Negrodamus]

Embiid, the last remaining player from the "losing on purpose" years, didn't actually play during the times they were "losing on purpose". When he finally returned, they were a lottery team but not horrendous (17-27) before he got injured.

The point about losing on purpose is superfluous otherwise since everyone else wasn't in the league yet or were on different teams. We also had a different coach, different GM, different FO, etc, etc.

[GoSixersBro]

I will delete my account if you provide me Hinkie's quote where he guaranteed a championship. Go on.