2019 NBA Draft

[Kolkmania]

It's fairly obvious that there are not roster spots open for young guys - why would an agent have his guy sign a summer league contract? They're going to have 4-5 guys (Shake?) 24 and younger on the roster excluding 2-ways

How many did Milwaukee and Toronto have last year? Houston? Golden State?

They are looking to win the East, the development part of the process is over. Summer try-outs have now been replaced by vet minimums. It's time to stop drooling over 20 year-olds and gaining appreciation for the cougars of the NBA...lol

DJ Wilson played big minutes, Sterling Brown had decent stretches, Pat Connaughton was a rotation player, Donte DiVicenzo was on the team and for crying out loud, it was only Brogdon's third year in the league.

Siakam on rookie contract, they traded Poeltl and Wright in the Kawhi and Gasol trade, VanVleet is on his third year.

Houston and GSW didn't play many youngsters because they've traded all of their picks in the last five years. Guess what? Their rosters are depleted and their lack of depth forces them to overplay their superstars.

Again. Nobody wants these guys to play in their rookie year. However, three years from now they could develop into an asset, provide depth or even become a starter.

[Sixerscan]

It's fairly obvious that there are not roster spots open for young guys - why would an agent have his guy sign a summer league contract? They're going to have 4-5 guys (Shake?) 24 and younger on the roster excluding 2-ways

How many did Milwaukee and Toronto have last year? Houston? Golden State?

They are looking to win the East, the development part of the process is over. Summer try-outs have now been replaced by vet minimums. It's time to stop drooling over 20 year-olds and gaining appreciation for the cougars of the NBA...lol

DJ Wilson played big minutes, Sterling Brown had decent stretches, Pat Connaughton was a rotation player, Donte DiVicenzo was on the team and for crying out loud, it was only Brogdon's third year in the league.

Siakam on rookie contract, they traded Poeltl and Wright in the Kawhi and Gasol trade, VanVleet is on his third year.

Houston and GSW didn't play many youngsters because they've traded all of their picks in the last five years. Guess what? Their rosters are depleted and their lack of depth forces them to overplay their superstars.

Again. Nobody wants these guys to play in their rookie year. However, three years from now they could develop into an asset, provide depth or even become a starter.

And we have Zhaire, Shake, Bolden and now Thybulle. Contending teams have a few developing players on their roster. They generally don’t have like 7 or whatever.

If you want to say they should carry an extra 2nd round pick I don’t think that’s crazy or anything. But they decided that 4 of these guys were enough, and looking at the teams you just mentioned, that doesn’t seem crazy either.

[Kolkmania]

It's fairly obvious that there are not roster spots open for young guys - why would an agent have his guy sign a summer league contract? They're going to have 4-5 guys (Shake?) 24 and younger on the roster excluding 2-ways

How many did Milwaukee and Toronto have last year? Houston? Golden State?

They are looking to win the East, the development part of the process is over. Summer try-outs have now been replaced by vet minimums. It's time to stop drooling over 20 year-olds and gaining appreciation for the cougars of the NBA...lol

DJ Wilson played big minutes, Sterling Brown had decent stretches, Pat Connaughton was a rotation player, Donte DiVicenzo was on the team and for crying out loud, it was only Brogdon's third year in the league.

Siakam on rookie contract, they traded Poeltl and Wright in the Kawhi and Gasol trade, VanVleet is on his third year.

Houston and GSW didn't play many youngsters because they've traded all of their picks in the last five years. Guess what? Their rosters are depleted and their lack of depth forces them to overplay their superstars.

Again. Nobody wants these guys to play in their rookie year. However, three years from now they could develop into an asset, provide depth or even become a starter.

And we have Zhaire, Shake, Bolden and now Thybulle. Contending teams have a few developing players on their roster. They generally don’t have like 7 or whatever.

If you want to say they should carry an extra 2nd round pick I don’t think that’s crazy or anything. But they decided that 4 of these guys were enough, and looking at the teams you just mentioned, that doesn’t seem crazy either.

So 4 is the magic number? Why 4, not 5? In our best case scenario we resign everybody with Bird rights. Embiid, Simmons, Butler, Harris, Redick, Scott, MLE, Shake, Zhaire, Bolden, Thybulle.
Which means we have 3/4 extra spots, no way that we're going to find that many veteran guys who are willing to sign for the minimum who have more value than taking an extra shot in the 2nd round.

[Sixerscan]

DJ Wilson played big minutes, Sterling Brown had decent stretches, Pat Connaughton was a rotation player, Donte DiVicenzo was on the team and for crying out loud, it was only Brogdon's third year in the league.

Siakam on rookie contract, they traded Poeltl and Wright in the Kawhi and Gasol trade, VanVleet is on his third year.

Houston and GSW didn't play many youngsters because they've traded all of their picks in the last five years. Guess what? Their rosters are depleted and their lack of depth forces them to overplay their superstars.

Again. Nobody wants these guys to play in their rookie year. However, three years from now they could develop into an asset, provide depth or even become a starter.

And we have Zhaire, Shake, Bolden and now Thybulle. Contending teams have a few developing players on their roster. They generally don’t have like 7 or whatever.

If you want to say they should carry an extra 2nd round pick I don’t think that’s crazy or anything. But they decided that 4 of these guys were enough, and looking at the teams you just mentioned, that doesn’t seem crazy either.

So 4 is the magic number? Why 4, not 5? In our best case scenario we resign everybody with Bird rights. Embiid, Simmons, Butler, Harris, Redick, Scott, MLE, Shake, Zhaire, Bolden, Thybulle.
Which means we have 3/4 extra spots, no way that we're going to find that many veteran guys who are willing to sign for the minimum who have more value than taking an extra shot in the 2nd round.

I can’t tell you their plan for the roster. Certainly don’t think 3-4 minimum guys is crazy. Maybe they have a plan to stay under the apron that involves carrying 14 for part of the year. Maybe 50 other possibilities.

My point was just that you listed off those names on other teams as if it’s proof that other contending teams have more developing players than we do, and that’s not the case. Brand does have a point when he says they have a lot of developing players on the roster already.

[Kolkmania]

And we have Zhaire, Shake, Bolden and now Thybulle. Contending teams have a few developing players on their roster. They generally don’t have like 7 or whatever.

If you want to say they should carry an extra 2nd round pick I don’t think that’s crazy or anything. But they decided that 4 of these guys were enough, and looking at the teams you just mentioned, that doesn’t seem crazy either.

So 4 is the magic number? Why 4, not 5? In our best case scenario we resign everybody with Bird rights. Embiid, Simmons, Butler, Harris, Redick, Scott, MLE, Shake, Zhaire, Bolden, Thybulle.
Which means we have 3/4 extra spots, no way that we're going to find that many veteran guys who are willing to sign for the minimum who have more value than taking an extra shot in the 2nd round.

I can’t tell you their plan for the roster. Certainly don’t think 3-4 minimum guys is crazy. Maybe they have a plan to stay under the apron that involves carrying 14 for part of the year. Maybe 50 other possibilities.

My point was just that you listed off those names on other teams as if it’s proof that other contending teams have more developing players than we do, and that’s not the case. Brand does have a point when he says they have a lot of developing players on the roster already.

No my purpose of that trade was there's no magical limit of players on a roster who are younger than 25. Preventing yourself from signing a potential future asset just to get an old squad sounds dumb to me. I'd rather have Carsen Edwards on this roster than yet another washed up vet like Amir Johnson.

Also I was listing young guys who actually got playing time. Raptors have roster spots for OG Anunoby, Malcolm Miller and Chris Boucher as well. The latter two both undrafted guys who were developed by their G-League affiliate and closely monitored by the Raptors themselves. That's the kind of environment that ensures you a consistent influx of cheap talent instead of these short sighted moves we make.

[Sixerscan]

So 4 is the magic number? Why 4, not 5? In our best case scenario we resign everybody with Bird rights. Embiid, Simmons, Butler, Harris, Redick, Scott, MLE, Shake, Zhaire, Bolden, Thybulle.
Which means we have 3/4 extra spots, no way that we're going to find that many veteran guys who are willing to sign for the minimum who have more value than taking an extra shot in the 2nd round.

I can’t tell you their plan for the roster. Certainly don’t think 3-4 minimum guys is crazy. Maybe they have a plan to stay under the apron that involves carrying 14 for part of the year. Maybe 50 other possibilities.

My point was just that you listed off those names on other teams as if it’s proof that other contending teams have more developing players than we do, and that’s not the case. Brand does have a point when he says they have a lot of developing players on the roster already.

No my purpose of that trade was there's no magical limit of players on a roster who are younger than 25. Preventing yourself from signing a potential future asset just to get an old squad sounds dumb to me. I'd rather have Carsen Edwards on this roster than yet another washed up vet like Amir Johnson.

Also I was listing young guys who actually got playing time. Raptors have roster spots for OG Anunoby, Malcolm Miller and Chris Boucher as well. The latter two both undrafted guys who were developed by their G-League affiliate and closely monitored by the Raptors themselves. That's the kind of environment that ensures you a consistent influx of cheap talent instead of these short sighted moves we make.

Miller and Boucher are 26 years old... The Raptors had 5 guys over 25 years old on minimum contracts on their playoff roster. Conversely they have 2 guys under 25 on their team (OG and McCaw).

Really OG is the only actual “developing” guy on that roster right now. If you’re counting Siakam or Brogdon you may as well count Ben Simmons and Embiid.

Theres no “magic number” but when Brand says they have enough young players that they feel comfortable with it does seem in line with what other contending teams are doing.

[aHealthy3]

Do you guys believe me yet that Elton has absolutely no idea what he's doing?

Last night was an embarrassment for the organization.

How? Poor draft and he traded away multiple picks for future assets and cash? Take a chance on the kid at 20 as a potential 3&d player, and another long shooter in the second round...focus on free agency and vets...pretty reasonable approach when you are trying to win a championship.

In what way was it good? Taking flyers on guys with the plethora of picks we had has zero downside. They don't even count against the cap until after they're signed so it doesn't affect what we would do in FA at all. Telegraphing our promise to Thybulle and allowing Boston to extort us, then take the guy we wanted right in front of us with our own pick at 33 is **** embarrassing, Hinkie rolled in his grave over that. Then **** our pants with no backup plan at 34 and trading it for a 2020 2nd (that we'll probably sell) and a 2023 2nd? Not to mention straight up selling 42 for literally 300k in cap relief if we just stretched Simmons.

We are going to be a capped out team for the next several years after this offseason and finding cheap guys who can fill minutes is absolutely IMPERATIVE for us - and the 2nd round is a massive resource for that! Imagine a team with 7 playable guys in the playoffs, most of whom are now UDFAs, having no interest in shopping for cheap depth. Look at the last finals. Major contributors for the Raptors were Siakam (27th overall), VanVleet (udfa), Powell (2nd rd), even freaking M Gasol was a 2nd rounder way back when, with the Warriors also giving heavy rotation minutes to guys like obv the classic example Draymond, but also Looney, McKinnie, Cook etc giving some valuable minutes. ****, half the people on this board have a hard-on for our own 2nd rounders like Bolden and Shake Milton yet somehow are cool with this.

Point is, taking a few flyers with these picks we had stockpiled is an absolute freeroll dart throw at some cheap talent for the next few years. We literally just dumped these picks and didn't get anything of future value for them. This is pretty much how we've handled the draft every post-Hinkie year aside from last year where Brett actually did a fantastic job. A 2nd rounder has something like a 7% chance at a meaningful NBA career from what I've read. It's not much, but winning organizations don't get there by simply punting off a bunch of 7% equity chunks for no real reason.

I'm not saying it's 100% on EB as he prob was pressured to do the deal for the #42 pick at least, but it's become clear as day at this point that he's an incompetent exec. The Tobias trade and failure to add any meaningful depth at the deadline showed this and the draft reiterated it. It's just straight up embarrassing to watch the franchise to go from being the absolute sharpest team on the margins from 2013-2015 to straight up punting assets in 2019 like we're the Kings.

[Arsenal]

Do you guys believe me yet that Elton has absolutely no idea what he's doing?

Last night was an embarrassment for the organization.

How? Poor draft and he traded away multiple picks for future assets and cash? Take a chance on the kid at 20 as a potential 3&d player, and another long shooter in the second round...focus on free agency and vets...pretty reasonable approach when you are trying to win a championship.

In what way was it good? Taking flyers on guys with the plethora of picks we had has zero downside. They don't even count against the cap until after they're signed so it doesn't affect what we would do in FA at all. Telegraphing our promise to Thybulle and allowing Boston to extort us, then take the guy we wanted right in front of us with our own pick at 33 is **** embarrassing, Hinkie rolled in his grave over that. Then **** our pants with no backup plan at 34 and trading it for a 2020 2nd (that we'll probably sell) and a 2023 2nd? Not to mention straight up selling 42 for literally 300k in cap relief if we just stretched Simmons.

We are going to be a capped out team for the next several years after this offseason and finding cheap guys who can fill minutes is absolutely IMPERATIVE for us - and the 2nd round is a massive resource for that! Imagine a team with 7 playable guys in the playoffs, most of whom are now UDFAs, having no interest in shopping for cheap depth. Look at the last finals. Major contributors for the Raptors were Siakam (27th overall), VanVleet (udfa), Powell (2nd rd), even freaking M Gasol was a 2nd rounder way back when, with the Warriors also giving heavy rotation minutes to guys like obv the classic example Draymond, but also Looney, McKinnie, Cook etc giving some valuable minutes. ****, half the people on this board have a hard-on for our own 2nd rounders like Bolden and Shake Milton yet somehow are cool with this.

Point is, taking a few flyers with these picks we had stockpiled is an absolute freeroll dart throw at some cheap talent for the next few years. We literally just dumped these picks and didn't get anything of future value for them. This is pretty much how we've handled the draft every post-Hinkie year aside from last year where Brett actually did a fantastic job. A 2nd rounder has something like a 7% chance at a meaningful NBA career from what I've read. It's not much, but winning organizations don't get there by simply punting off a bunch of 7% equity chunks for no real reason.

I'm not saying it's 100% on EB as he prob was pressured to do the deal for the #42 pick at least, but it's become clear as day at this point that he's an incompetent exec. The Tobias trade and failure to add any meaningful depth at the deadline showed this and the draft reiterated it. It's just straight up embarrassing to watch the franchise to go from being the absolute sharpest team on the margins from 2013-2015 to straight up punting assets in 2019 like we're the Kings.

I agree with everything you said except pinning the blame on Elton. He's just a front man. Josh Harris and David Blitzer are to blame for the punting on picks. They want to line their pockets by selling 2nds every year, which they did again this year. This is their SOP even during the Hinkie era.

[aHealthy3]

How? Poor draft and he traded away multiple picks for future assets and cash? Take a chance on the kid at 20 as a potential 3&d player, and another long shooter in the second round...focus on free agency and vets...pretty reasonable approach when you are trying to win a championship.

In what way was it good? Taking flyers on guys with the plethora of picks we had has zero downside. They don't even count against the cap until after they're signed so it doesn't affect what we would do in FA at all. Telegraphing our promise to Thybulle and allowing Boston to extort us, then take the guy we wanted right in front of us with our own pick at 33 is **** embarrassing, Hinkie rolled in his grave over that. Then **** our pants with no backup plan at 34 and trading it for a 2020 2nd (that we'll probably sell) and a 2023 2nd? Not to mention straight up selling 42 for literally 300k in cap relief if we just stretched Simmons.

We are going to be a capped out team for the next several years after this offseason and finding cheap guys who can fill minutes is absolutely IMPERATIVE for us - and the 2nd round is a massive resource for that! Imagine a team with 7 playable guys in the playoffs, most of whom are now UDFAs, having no interest in shopping for cheap depth. Look at the last finals. Major contributors for the Raptors were Siakam (27th overall), VanVleet (udfa), Powell (2nd rd), even freaking M Gasol was a 2nd rounder way back when, with the Warriors also giving heavy rotation minutes to guys like obv the classic example Draymond, but also Looney, McKinnie, Cook etc giving some valuable minutes. ****, half the people on this board have a hard-on for our own 2nd rounders like Bolden and Shake Milton yet somehow are cool with this.

Point is, taking a few flyers with these picks we had stockpiled is an absolute freeroll dart throw at some cheap talent for the next few years. We literally just dumped these picks and didn't get anything of future value for them. This is pretty much how we've handled the draft every post-Hinkie year aside from last year where Brett actually did a fantastic job. A 2nd rounder has something like a 7% chance at a meaningful NBA career from what I've read. It's not much, but winning organizations don't get there by simply punting off a bunch of 7% equity chunks for no real reason.

I'm not saying it's 100% on EB as he prob was pressured to do the deal for the #42 pick at least, but it's become clear as day at this point that he's an incompetent exec. The Tobias trade and failure to add any meaningful depth at the deadline showed this and the draft reiterated it. It's just straight up embarrassing to watch the franchise to go from being the absolute sharpest team on the margins from 2013-2015 to straight up punting assets in 2019 like we're the Kings.

I agree with everything you said except pinning the blame on Elton. He's just a front man. Josh Harris and David Blitzer are to blame for the punting on picks. They want to line their pockets by selling 2nds every year, which they did again this year. This is their SOP even during the Hinkie era.

Yeah I agree the trade for 42 reeked of Josh Harris but it still doesn't excuse letting Boston extort us or essentially punting 34 imo. I don't really recall us selling 2nds during the Hinkie era though.

[aHealthy3]

Another point to address is the "these guys would never get minutes for us this year so it doesn't matter" argument - first off, you don't know that for certain. Second off even if that's true, look at what the Rockets did last year with DeAnthony Melton. Took him 46th overall and his summer league performance alone garnered enough attention to allow them to strike a deal with Phoenix to get off Ryan Anderson's contract. Point being is that maximizing assets is ALWAYS beneficial to the franchise regardless if you're a title contender or the freaking Knicks. All sharp teams do this. It's just inexcusable to punt this equity.

[cool93]

Yeah I agree the trade for 42 reeked of Josh Harris but it still doesn't excuse letting Boston extort us or essentially punting 34 imo. I don't really recall us selling 2nds during the Hinkie era though.

Are we sure thats what happened? Maybe Brand knew that OKC will take Thybulle with 21 so he called Celts and made a deal.

[FlyingArrow]

Brand said he initiated the trade for #20. Presumably because he expected OKC to take Thybulle. I like the Thybulle pick just fine, but I don't think he was worth trading up for. I liked Kabengele even better and he was still available at 24... and there was still value around at #33, 34, too. The #34 trade got two future 2nd rounders so it doesn't actually throw picks away - just postpones them. I think this would have been the better year to take a shot at some players, though. Early enough that one of them could develop and contribute to our ring at some point in the next 5 years.

#42 to get out of JSimmons may or may not be a bad move. If we come up within $200K of the apron or of the luxury tax then it was probably worth it. Shayok seems as good a pick as any for being the 50s.

[Sixerscan]

The Sixers drafted more players in this draft than the Raptors Bucks and Rockets did combined.

[LloydFree]

I'm not going to lose sleep over the 76ers throwing way three 2nd round picks, especially since they traded one of them, for two future picks as I expected pre draft.

I'd didn't think Thybulle was worth a trade up, but at #20... Whatever. Half the NBA made moves that I thought were way more egregious than what the 76ers did.

[FlyingArrow]

I'm not in favor of 4 second rounders on the roster, but I would have preferred to have 4 in training camp to see which one earns a roster spot. As is, I hope Shayok is good enough for a spot because the other 3 picks aren't ours.

[Monix]

The Sixers drafted more players in this draft than the Raptors Bucks and Rockets did combined.

does this mean Brand is as clueless as Morey and Ujiri?

[Kolkmania]

I can’t tell you their plan for the roster. Certainly don’t think 3-4 minimum guys is crazy. Maybe they have a plan to stay under the apron that involves carrying 14 for part of the year. Maybe 50 other possibilities.

My point was just that you listed off those names on other teams as if it’s proof that other contending teams have more developing players than we do, and that’s not the case. Brand does have a point when he says they have a lot of developing players on the roster already.

No my purpose of that trade was there's no magical limit of players on a roster who are younger than 25. Preventing yourself from signing a potential future asset just to get an old squad sounds dumb to me. I'd rather have Carsen Edwards on this roster than yet another washed up vet like Amir Johnson.

Also I was listing young guys who actually got playing time. Raptors have roster spots for OG Anunoby, Malcolm Miller and Chris Boucher as well. The latter two both undrafted guys who were developed by their G-League affiliate and closely monitored by the Raptors themselves. That's the kind of environment that ensures you a consistent influx of cheap talent instead of these short sighted moves we make.

Miller and Boucher are 26 years old... The Raptors had 5 guys over 25 years old on minimum contracts on their playoff roster. Conversely they have 2 guys under 25 on their team (OG and McCaw).

Really OG is the only actual “developing” guy on that roster right now. If you’re counting Siakam or Brogdon you may as well count Ben Simmons and Embiid.

Theres no “magic number” but when Brand says they have enough young players that they feel comfortable with it does seem in line with what other contending teams are doing.

But developmental guys nonetheless right? So what is the issue, is it pure the age or should it be a veteran? Because none of those guys are veterans by any means.

I get what you and many others are trying to say, but I just don't get why trading the #42 pick for cash is ok when you can draft a THT and stash him in the G-League for two years. Especially since we have many open roster spots. Is that toxic for a locker room? Is the training staff not big enough?

[Wilfried]

Yeah I don't really recall us selling 2nds during the Hinkie era though.

I don't recall us being in the contention mode back then either

[Foshan]

I really wish we would have drafted an upside big (unless the plan is to bring one of the bigs from last year over)

[smittybanton]

Hinkie sycophant here:

1. Hinkie concocted ingenious ways to stuff owners pockets with millions by staying artificially below the salary floor.
2. Hinkie sold a trade exception for cash. Lol!!!
3. Hinkie had three drafts with the Sixers and twice sold draft picks for busted players and cash
4. Hinkie sold the 34th pick for two future seconds, while Elton Brand just sold the #34 for two future seconds and cash.
5. Before trading the 34th pkck (Willy Hernangomez), Hinkie selected Jahlil Okafor instead of Kristaps Porzingis.
6. After trading the 34th pick (Willy Hernangomez), Hinkie selected Richaun Holmes, Arturo Gudaitis and JP Tokoto.

Not only did Hinkie sell picks in two of out of his three drafts, he didn't have any picks he could sell in the first one 2013. Moreover, Hinkie had more success with UDFAs (Covington, McConnell) than he did with 2nd round picks, which suggests he should have sold more of them. Lol. If the Sixers scoop up Marial Shayock as a UDFA instead of 54, there would be little appreciable difference. I beat the drum for Daniel Gafford and Shamorie Ponds and Dedric Lawson, knowing we were'nt going to use all those picks--especially considering how weak this draft was always predicted to be. Missing out on Gafford stings, for me. But the idea that what we just dd is novel, extraordinary or without a plan with regard to building a championship roster is not serious. Quite the opposite.


....

2014 2nd to HOU for Furkan Aldemir, Royce White and cash
2015 2nd to OKC for Hasheem Tabeet and cash
Sergei Lishouk to LAC for Cenk Akyol, Jarred Cunningham and cash.
2015 - 34th pick to nyk for 2020 2nd, 2021 2nd - before which he drafted jahlil okafor over kristaps porzingis, and after which he drafted arturo gudaitis and jp tokoto