The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV

[Ellington]

Ben does not really have that Zion or Giannis freakish tools to just rely on being a paint player. He has to develop a perimeter game and scoring. Maybe he one day develops that. But if im the GM of the Sixers, I’d let other teams take the chance.

But for now.. he has to slide his playmaking duties to Seth, Shake, Milton, Maxey and Tobias. And focus more on SCORING off drives in transition, on the ball and off the ball.

He’s not magically going to be a good shooter just by taking jumpers this season.

We either let him do that or do something radical. Which is to sit him out and let him spend the season to develop his perimeter game. And this is unrealistic.

Ben has freakish physical tools including speed, athleticism etc that could easily translate to him being a devastatingly good paint player. Ben could fix all his issues by becoming a willing shooter and scorer. Don't look to pass it to Tobias, Maxey etc, take it yourself. Focus on taking your own shots instead of looking for team mates. Take a few 3's per game, take some jumpers. If you are on a fast break, don't pass it off, go yourself. Trust yourself. If you have an option to shoot and Tobias is open also, don't pass it to Tobias, take it yourself. If you are open, call out and demand the ball to score. If Curry is open for 3 but you have an open drive, go to the hoop. We need to get Simmons focussed on developing his offensive game and becoming a threat. If Embiid has the ball at the top of the key and you're open down low, call for the ball. Don't let Embiid just launch up the jumper, call for it and take on your mismatch. That is what needs to happen. That is the change that is needed.

[51X3RF4N]

To maximize Ben you have to play him in an completely run and gun team.

Play him at the 4 and put a small ball 5 next to him, or at least an Al Horford type of center.Also he will need at least two good shot creators in the half court.

Embiid is a bad fit.Period.Sure in the RS they make it work because the defense is great. But in the Playoffs you are capped by the terrible halfcourt offense.

Seriously why do we need Ben anymore if we have two or more good shot creators and a bunch of shooters ? What else do we need Ben to provide on the court ?

Exactly this. 3&D is what we need. Sure, Ben is an elite defender. But put simply a great defender who can also hit knock down catch and shoot 3s on the floor, and the results improve IMO.

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[76ciology]

To maximize Ben you have to play him in an completely run and gun team.

Play him at the 4 and put a small ball 5 next to him, or at least an Al Horford type of center.Also he will need at least two good shot creators in the half court.

Embiid is a bad fit.Period.Sure in the RS they make it work because the defense is great. But in the Playoffs you are capped by the terrible halfcourt offense.

Seriously why do we need Ben anymore if we have two or more good shot creators and a bunch of shooters ? What else do we need Ben to provide on the court ?

Exactly this. 3&D is what we need. Sure, Ben is an elite defender. But put simply a great defender who can also hit knock down catch and shoot 3s on the floor, and the results improve IMO.

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Yup.

Its not like we’re going to play 4v5.

Are we a worse team if we trade Ben for a shot creator then get someone like Roco (or dime a dozen 3&D) as 3&D. I think with little tweaks (add shotcreator and a dime a dozen 3&D) you can make a jump on how good your team is going to be.

[stormi]

Read on Twitter

[Bum Adebayo]

Simmons is absolutely a generational talent, or at least close to generational. However, people apparently think talent has to correlate with results, ie, the most talented player will be the best player. This is bull, there is motivation, dedication, work ethic and more things that prevent a player from reaching their true potential. It is not all about talent, and never has been, because there are many more factors that determine if a player is going to be great or not. It is one of the most important obviously, but many other are really important too and can determine if a player will disappoint relative to talent or not.
Right now, Simmons has one of the lowest level of play/talent ratio I've ever seen, so he doesn't deserve any praise, we need to demand him to reach the next level, that is all.

[sixers4real]

Simmons is absolutely a generational talent, or at least close to generational. However, people apparently think talent has to correlate with results, ie, the most talented player will be the best player. This is bull, there is motivation, dedication, work ethic and more things that prevent a player from reaching their true potential. It is not all about talent, and never has been, because there are many more factors that determine if a player is going to be great or not. It is one of the most important obviously, but many other are really important too and can determine if a player will disappoint relative to talent or not.
Right now, Simmons has one of the lowest level of play/talent ratio I've ever seen, so he doesn't deserve any praise, we need to demand him to reach the next level, that is all.

I can’t believe I’m reading this post from you. You seemed to be so negative.
I was off the forum for some time.

[kriss73]

Read on Twitter

Can't be him.
He can't play real basketball, let alone in the post seasons.
It's a fake.

[Mik317]

Summer League Simmons was the best version of him offensively.

DAMN YOU SHAWN LONG

[youngcrev]

To maximize Ben you have to play him in an completely run and gun team.

Play him at the 4 and put a small ball 5 next to him, or at least an Al Horford type of center.Also he will need at least two good shot creators in the half court.

Embiid is a bad fit.Period.Sure in the RS they make it work because the defense is great. But in the Playoffs you are capped by the terrible halfcourt offense.

Seriously why do we need Ben anymore if we have two or more good shot creators and a bunch of shooters ? What else do we need Ben to provide on the court ?

Exactly this. 3&D is what we need. Sure, Ben is an elite defender. But put simply a great defender who can also hit knock down catch and shoot 3s on the floor, and the results improve IMO.

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So if we just had one more Danny Green we'd be unstoppable? The guy that we are clamoring to get a playmaking upgrade over?

[JojoSlimbiid]

Hate watching him play at this point. He is what he is tbh there is no magical elixir here.

[51X3RF4N]

Seriously why do we need Ben anymore if we have two or more good shot creators and a bunch of shooters ? What else do we need Ben to provide on the court ?

Exactly this. 3&D is what we need. Sure, Ben is an elite defender. But put simply a great defender who can also hit knock down catch and shoot 3s on the floor, and the results improve IMO.

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So if we just had one more Danny Green we'd be unstoppable? The guy that we are clamoring to get a playmaking upgrade over?

It's more like, I want to upgrade the starters by replacing Danny with a better version of himself, while upgrading from Ben to Shake as the playmaker/scorer.

I see the following 10 man lineup as a championship contender:

Embiid/Howard
Harris/Upgrade stretch 4
Upgrade 3&D/Green
Milton/Upgrade vet 3pt shooter
Curry/Maxey

If Ben can be traded for essentially 3 role players on solid long term, cheaper contracts...I see Milton being unleashed and taking the next step into being a Star.

He's already been stellar on defense, and his offense is unquestionable as a 3 level scorer with or without the ball in his hands. He's unafraid of the big moments.

Embiid with 4 shooters is unstoppable. Can't double team him without paying a price with a 3pt shot. Can't cover him with just 1 guy when he catches at the free throw line and has space to work.

Embiid/Shake as the offensive "go-to" and closers. Harris as the 3rd option on offense who takes over when Embiid needs rest. Curry, 3&D wing as the complementary pieces. Howard, Green as vets off the bench. Maxey as the creator off the bench, given free will to go get buckets. Just need a stretch 4 and shooter at the 2 coming off the bench to complete a well-rounded team.

I see Shake as being an elite perimeter creator/shooter/scorer. So rather than try to trade for one that is a diva, costs a lot and doesn't have chemistry with anyone, let's turn Shake loose on the league and trade for better complementary/fit pieces around Embiid.

Utilize Ben to turn this team into a deep, contending team that has continuity for 3+ years with everyone under contract except Danny and Dwight. And we have Matisse in the Danny mold for next season. Just need to draft or sign a Dwight type.

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[Kobblehead]

Simmons is absolutely a generational talent, or at least close to generational. However, people apparently think talent has to correlate with results, ie, the most talented player will be the best player. This is bull, there is motivation, dedication, work ethic and more things that prevent a player from reaching their true potential.

That's the thing, he's not that talented. He can't cook whatsoever. He cannot take defenders off the dribble. He has no arsenal of scoring moves on the ball. Obviously he has no shooting grace or skill (he probably doesn't even know what hand he's supposed to shoot with). There's nothing talented about him other than being a 6'10" physical specimen that enjoys passing the ball.

So no, of course he's not a generational talent. And that conclusion is not just based off the results and production so far. It's based on the fact that he's just not that talented when you look at his skillset.

[elchengue20]

Milton is nice and all but he cant be your primary shot creator if you want to win a championship.

You need at least a legit All Star calibeer player like Beal or Lavine playing that role. Milton maybe can be an elite 6th man scoring punch type of player.

[51X3RF4N]

Milton is nice and all but he cant be your primary shot creator if you want to win a championship.

You need at least a legit All Star calibeer player like Beal or Lavine playing that role. Milton maybe can be an elite 6th scoring punch type of player.

How do we know he isn't good enough? His whole career he has been surprising people with how good he is...

Has he shown inconsistency? Has he folded in the big moments? Has he shown an inability to score the ball at any point in his career?

Dude is legit and just needs to be set free.

Why can't he be an all star caliber primary shot creator? Put him in the 2 man game with Joel. Run the offense through Joel, and let Shake handle the perimeter duties.

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[Negrodamus]

I think one of the hard parts of trading Simmons is he would be instrumental in helping us defend against the Nets in the playoffs.

We're looking at a matchup of:

Green <--> Irving
Ben <--> Harden
Curry <--> Harris
Harris <--> Durant
Embiid <--> Jordan

If we replace him with a scorer like McCollum, Beal, LaVine, etc who are mediocre on defense, then that will be one more exploitable matchup (looking at you, Tobi and Curry) that we'll have to deal with.

[elchengue20]

Milton is nice and all but he cant be your primary shot creator if you want to win a championship.

You need at least a legit All Star calibeer player like Beal or Lavine playing that role. Milton maybe can be an elite 6th scoring punch type of player.

How do we know he isn't good enough? His whole career he has been surprising people with how good he is...

Has he shown inconsistency? Has he folded in the big moments? Has he shown an inability to score the ball at any point in his career?

Dude is legit and just needs to be set free.

Why can't he be an all star caliber primary shot creator? Put him in the 2 man game with Joel. Run the offense through Joel, and let Shake handle the perimeter duties.

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I mean, you can bet on that happening but i would be a MASSIVE surprise and outlier.It has never happened in NBA history.

Shake is a former #54 pick who is starting to play his first good season.We should cool down with the expectations a bit.I think you don't fully understand what you are asking him to do.Unless you are fine with being a 2nd round team for at least the next couple of years.

You need a really good player in that role if you want to win a championship.Maybe one day he can be ready for that kind of task,still a longshot.

Asking him to be an elite 6th man and overall 3rd/4th scoring option is much more realistic right now.

[Kobblehead]

Ultimately, Simmons' defense has only been a mere fly on the snout of a lion in the playoffs, anyway. I feel like the right move is to attempt to match firepower and hope for a hot shooting stretch from our guys. Defensive mitigation efforts appear to be a futile attempt to stop hall of fame scorers, historically. Even moreso in the modern NBA.

[Negrodamus]

Ultimately, Simmons' defense has only been a mere fly on the snout of a lion in the playoffs, anyway. I feel like the right move is to attempt to match firepower and hope for a hot shooting stretch from our guys. Defensive mitigation efforts appear to be a futile attempt to stop hall of fame scorers, historically. Even moreso in the modern NBA.

Yea, I think our only chance is to add offensive firepower to the starters and win the bench scoring by a lot. Even if Ben could neutralize one of them, which I'm not sure he could, we still match up terribly with them. I feel like Curry needs to move to the bench at some point.

[elchengue20]

Yep, Curry is a bench player who should play 15/25 minutes a night depending on the matchup and also if he's hot or not on that particular night.

NBA today is perimeter offense oriented. You can't win without an elite shotmaker/creator on the perimeter.We need more firepower. You worry about the 3+D guys later.

[51X3RF4N]

Milton is nice and all but he cant be your primary shot creator if you want to win a championship.

You need at least a legit All Star calibeer player like Beal or Lavine playing that role. Milton maybe can be an elite 6th scoring punch type of player.

How do we know he isn't good enough? His whole career he has been surprising people with how good he is...

Has he shown inconsistency? Has he folded in the big moments? Has he shown an inability to score the ball at any point in his career?

Dude is legit and just needs to be set free.

Why can't he be an all star caliber primary shot creator? Put him in the 2 man game with Joel. Run the offense through Joel, and let Shake handle the perimeter duties.

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I mean, you can bet on that happening but i would be a MASSIVE surprise and outlier.It has never happened in NBA history.

Shake is a former #54 pick who is starting to play his first good season.We should cool down with the expectations a bit.I think you don't fully understand what you are asking him to do.Unless you are fine with being a 2nd round team for at least the next couple of years.

You need a really good player in that role if you want to win a championship.Maybe one day he can be ready for that kind of task,still a longshot.

Asking him to be an elite 6th man and overall 3rd/4th scoring option is much more realistic right now.

He's currently averaging 23ppg, 5apg, 1.6spg and going to the line for 6FTA per game ***per 36 minutes.

If he were playing starters minutes and doing this...

He compares to Donovan Mitchell except he is taking 5 less shots per 36 minutes, getting to the FT line 2 times MORE than Mitchell, and shooting an overall higher percentage, while playing better defense.

So again...why don't we stop talking about what Shake CANT do and start appreciating what he IS doing.

He has also doubled how often he gets to the FT line and reduced how often he fouls from last season.

And, he's doing all of this with a 3pt percentage that has actually dropped from 43% last year to 33% so far this year, which makes me feel even better about his long term outlook once that percentage starts to even out.

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