Playoffs!?

[GoSixersBro]

Also Sixer bandwaggon fans didn't exist from 2006-2013 so who was actually enduring anything?

The majority of diehards who never stopped watching the team loved the Process. The arena was bare but there was a goofy fan section behind the basket who fell in love with our lovable losers. Tony Wroten, Covington, TJ, the list goes on. Sixers Twitter, LibertyBallers, and even our forum took a vested interest in each season and the lottery/draft was our NBA Finals for 4 years.

I absolutely hate the notion that the city of Philadelphia had to crawl through a desert of losses and despair from 2013-2017. When it comes to the Sixers, Philly is a complete bandwagon fanbase and nobody outside actual fans cared/knew what was going on. Then very few people paying attention to the Process criticized it. It was finally an answer to step off the Iguodala treadmill.

It's pure fantasy to pretend that the Sixers fans suffered. At the end of the day, show me a team who went from 10 to 52 wins in a two year span. If that isn't proof the plan worked, you're coping.

[NBD23]

lol.

The only people who think they were owed anything are the same ones who pushed Hinkie out and are currently calling for everyone to be fired.

Its listening to those dinosaurs that led us to the exact situation we are in now IMO. The fans who were okay with "losing on purpose" were the patient ones. This twisted idea that the process was def going to lead to a chip is only parrotted by those were against it. The plan was to get the guy, identify if he is the guy, and build around said guy while maintaining the "optionality" to make moves at all times. After Collars and Friends took over; they never decided who to build around between Ben and Biid (and honestly built more around Ben's weaknesses than anything) and proceeded to chuck all assets less they look like Hinkie's kick the can strats for immediate gain. The selling of second round picks like candy, wasting the remaining 1sts on TLCs and Korkmaz' and Picnic Baskets because lol who needs em amirite...It was all hands on deck right now for immediate success...the absolute opposite of the process.

I am not one of the ones who worships the ground Hinkie walks on. I think drafting Jah was **** stupid and probably deservingly so cost him his job. But to this day people seem to not grasp the whole process idea.. The main theory was that this **** takes time and always having tools to pivot was the best way for THAT version of the Sixers to build. It got hijacked by dudes looking to prove that they deserved the job and the that method was bad and it has negatively effected the whole organization because now we probably can't take our time because we lack it but also we can't really make any moves because we lack assets. Those are two things a process allows a better run organization to do. Look at OKC...they fell backwards into a star in SGA and still have assets to burn and still have some on the way. The Celtics main core is full of top 5-7 picks...just because they came via other teams tanking doesn't change that. Our FO would have traded one of the Jays already. They would have thrown all of OKCs picks at some "star". So if there is any losing culture it is fully due to the FO being reactionary clowns who have backed themselves into so many corners. There are so many inflection points over the past few years that could have saved it (IMO going from a friendly coach in Brett to ...another one in Doc is an overlooked one IMO...Biid and Ben didn't need any more friend coaches at that point of their careers IMO; Boston got over their hump going from Stevens to Ime who would just call people bitches lol...and then go have sex with peoples wives...but still) but they either double down on the bad decision or pivoted to a worse one lol.

To blame that on the process and the fans is just flat out wrong IMO.

AMEN! well said, mic drop

[NBD23]

Also Sixer bandwaggon fans didn't exist from 2006-2013 so who was actually enduring anything?

The majority of diehards who never stopped watching the team loved the Process. The arena was bare but there was a goofy fan section behind the basket who fell in love with our lovable losers. Tony Wroten, Covington, TJ, the list goes on. Sixers Twitter, LibertyBallers, and even our forum took a vested interest in each season and the lottery/draft was our NBA Finals for 4 years.

I absolutely hate the notion that the city of Philadelphia had to crawl through a desert of losses and despair from 2013-2017. When it comes to the Sixers, Philly is a complete bandwagon fanbase and nobody outside actual fans cared/knew what was going on. Then very few people paying attention to the Process criticized it. It was finally an answer to step off the Iguodala treadmill.

It's pure fantasy to pretend that the Sixers fans suffered. At the end of the day, show me a team who went from 10 to 52 wins in a two year span. If that isn't proof the plan worked, you're coping.

Further what success had they been having for 40 years that made those 4 seasons so awful again? Also I seem to recall the Lakers had a worse record over that stretch, but I guess they were not tanking and that wasn't an issue? Also caused them to never compete or win a title again!

[Stanford]

Also Sixer bandwaggon fans didn't exist from 2006-2013 so who was actually enduring anything?

The majority of diehards who never stopped watching the team loved the Process.

Fans have actually had to endure the Embiid era. The Process was fun. I watched nearly every game, either live or on replay.

Love this whole post, by the way. Completely correct.

[mksp]

The process was fun. Full of promise. Everyone played hard. We all trusted Hinkie to deliver a championship winning team.

[mjkvol]

Also Sixer bandwaggon fans didn't exist from 2006-2013 so who was actually enduring anything?

The majority of diehards who never stopped watching the team loved the Process. The arena was bare but there was a goofy fan section behind the basket who fell in love with our lovable losers. Tony Wroten, Covington, TJ, the list goes on. Sixers Twitter, LibertyBallers, and even our forum took a vested interest in each season and the lottery/draft was our NBA Finals for 4 years.

I absolutely hate the notion that the city of Philadelphia had to crawl through a desert of losses and despair from 2013-2017. When it comes to the Sixers, Philly is a complete bandwagon fanbase and nobody outside actual fans cared/knew what was going on. Then very few people paying attention to the Process criticized it. It was finally an answer to step off the Iguodala treadmill.

It's pure fantasy to pretend that the Sixers fans suffered. At the end of the day, show me a team who went from 10 to 52 wins in a two year span. If that isn't proof the plan worked, you're coping.

Nailed it. The 'enduring' years were actually the years between AI and The Process, if we want to be really honest. I had practically stopped watching out of boredom and just knowing it was going to be another 1st round exit and mediocre pick. The Process gave us hope, and something to actually root for in the lottery, draft, and the trades Hinkie would make.

[mjkvol]

lol.

The only people who think they were owed anything are the same ones who pushed Hinkie out and are currently calling for everyone to be fired.

Its listening to those dinosaurs that led us to the exact situation we are in now IMO. The fans who were okay with "losing on purpose" were the patient ones. This twisted idea that the process was def going to lead to a chip is only parrotted by those were against it. The plan was to get the guy, identify if he is the guy, and build around said guy while maintaining the "optionality" to make moves at all times. After Collars and Friends took over; they never decided who to build around between Ben and Biid (and honestly built more around Ben's weaknesses than anything) and proceeded to chuck all assets less they look like Hinkie's kick the can strats for immediate gain. The selling of second round picks like candy, wasting the remaining 1sts on TLCs and Korkmaz' and Picnic Baskets because lol who needs em amirite...It was all hands on deck right now for immediate success...the absolute opposite of the process.

I am not one of the ones who worships the ground Hinkie walks on. I think drafting Jah was **** stupid and probably deservingly so cost him his job. But to this day people seem to not grasp the whole process idea.. The main theory was that this **** takes time and always having tools to pivot was the best way for THAT version of the Sixers to build. It got hijacked by dudes looking to prove that they deserved the job and the that method was bad and it has negatively effected the whole organization because now we probably can't take our time because we lack it but also we can't really make any moves because we lack assets. Those are two things a process allows a better run organization to do. Look at OKC...they fell backwards into a star in SGA and still have assets to burn and still have some on the way. The Celtics main core is full of top 5-7 picks...just because they came via other teams tanking doesn't change that. Our FO would have traded one of the Jays already. They would have thrown all of OKCs picks at some "star". So if there is any losing culture it is fully due to the FO being reactionary clowns who have backed themselves into so many corners. There are so many inflection points over the past few years that could have saved it (IMO going from a friendly coach in Brett to ...another one in Doc is an overlooked one IMO...Biid and Ben didn't need any more friend coaches at that point of their careers IMO; Boston got over their hump going from Stevens to Ime who would just call people bitches lol...and then go have sex with peoples wives...but still) but they either double down on the bad decision or pivoted to a worse one lol.

To blame that on the process and the fans is just flat out wrong IMO.

This is a terrific post. The Process wasn't about losing games for a few years then spending all the assets like drunken sailors desperately chasing the championship the fans were somehow "owed". It was about acquiring the player or players to build around, and then to sustain a high level by always having assets to improve the team.

The Colangelos and those that followed were brought in to wreck the entire idea of the Process and make it almost a dirty word. They couldn't have sabotaged the franchise any more if it had been their specific purpose to do so. I can't ever hear the itemization of the moves made without despising Adam Silver a little more than I already do.

[FireMorey]

I enjoyed watching the process Sixers more than current. But not all of that has to do with the Sixers players themselves, Adam Silver meddling just sucked a lot of joy and respect from the NBA. Ever since then, it irreparably damaged my love of the league. And ironically, it irreparably damaged the Sixers. Fun times!

[GoSixersBro]

Also Sixer bandwaggon fans didn't exist from 2006-2013 so who was actually enduring anything?

The majority of diehards who never stopped watching the team loved the Process. The arena was bare but there was a goofy fan section behind the basket who fell in love with our lovable losers. Tony Wroten, Covington, TJ, the list goes on. Sixers Twitter, LibertyBallers, and even our forum took a vested interest in each season and the lottery/draft was our NBA Finals for 4 years.

I absolutely hate the notion that the city of Philadelphia had to crawl through a desert of losses and despair from 2013-2017. When it comes to the Sixers, Philly is a complete bandwagon fanbase and nobody outside actual fans cared/knew what was going on. Then very few people paying attention to the Process criticized it. It was finally an answer to step off the Iguodala treadmill.

It's pure fantasy to pretend that the Sixers fans suffered. At the end of the day, show me a team who went from 10 to 52 wins in a two year span. If that isn't proof the plan worked, you're coping.

Nailed it. The 'enduring' years were actually the years between AI and The Process, if we want to be really honest. I had practically stopped watching out of boredom and just knowing it was going to be another 1st round exit and mediocre pick. The Process gave us hope, and something to actually root for in the lottery, draft, and the trades Hinkie would make.

Exactly. I recently had a convo with a friend who is basically a Sixer fan again every year for 4 weeks mid-April to mid-May. He was the typical reactionary, over-emotional Philly fan when we lost Game 7.

"Trade Embiid now. The Process was a scam. This team needs more top 10 players." Pure nonsense and delusion with a side of unrealistic expectation.

My brother in Christ, tell me what you would have preferred at the end of the 2012-2013 season? I love a good hypothetical so let's dive right in.

Our shiny "All-Star" guard Jrue Holiday (who don't get me wrong, is/was an awesome player) we can now build around since Andrew Bynum went down in flames. Let's continue fishing in the FA market and bring in the best names who actually want to play for our city. We know the types! Damien Wilkins, Swaggy P, Dorrell Wright! That bench is looking mighty fine!

Now time to bolster our starting line-up. Anyone wanna go star hunting? Well since no real stars actually want to come to Philadelphia to play in their prime, let's get some big names who have already peaked, or are damaged goods with injury or are just fake stars who are fringe All-Star reserves at best.

The 2000's examples would be to plug starter holes with 2007 Elton Brand or nursing home Andre Miller and hope they can beat the actual superstars of current day (see the Sixers playoff series from 2007-2012 to see how that faired). If we wanna look at 2013 when the Process naysayers would be operating, who are the big names that would take the perpetual 41 win Sixers to the next level?

I'm talking realistic targets, guys who actually would sign with Philadelphia. Josh Smith? Ty Lawson? Al Jefferson? Nic Batum? I'd love to hear other suggestions if you think I'm talking out of my ass.

I haven't been alive long enough to watch this team back in the 80's, but have the last 25 years to know the only way to land an MVP talent in Philadelphia is to draft him. It's no surprise Iverson and Embiid are miles ahead of the best players who've worn the Sixer jersey after Barkley. Why? Because our franchise has been unable to land stars for decades.

Which brings me back to the beginning. What was the alternate to the Process? Hope one of our Thad Young / Marreese Speights / Jrue Holiday mid-first rounders magically ends up being Kobe or Giannis? That strategy is much worse than bottoming out for. a few seasons, but I guess if the fans don't have to suffer by being able to witness 2 home playoff games each year then by all means crucify Sam lol.

[Ferry Avenue]

The process was fun. Full of promise. Everyone played hard. We all trusted Hinkie to deliver a championship winning team.

And the flavor of this message board for the past several years is a function of it as well. Everyone here on some level is awaiting the franchise to make good on "the process." Embiid is still here -- he gives us hope as the central piece. Ben Simmons didn't work out, but he got us James Harden, who continues to inspire hope. Embiid and Harden together -- perhaps with some peripheral additions -- can hopefully make the process result in what it was intended to accomplish. We're all still embedded in the outcome of the process. We'd be rooting for the Sixers to win the championship either way, but strong and persistent remnants of "the process" makes that rooting on our part fundamentally different than it would be otherwise. We're still "trusting the process" as we speak, and that won't change until the players obtained as part of it are gone.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

Also Sixer bandwaggon fans didn't exist from 2006-2013 so who was actually enduring anything?

The majority of diehards who never stopped watching the team loved the Process. The arena was bare but there was a goofy fan section behind the basket who fell in love with our lovable losers. Tony Wroten, Covington, TJ, the list goes on. Sixers Twitter, LibertyBallers, and even our forum took a vested interest in each season and the lottery/draft was our NBA Finals for 4 years.

I absolutely hate the notion that the city of Philadelphia had to crawl through a desert of losses and despair from 2013-2017. When it comes to the Sixers, Philly is a complete bandwagon fanbase and nobody outside actual fans cared/knew what was going on. Then very few people paying attention to the Process criticized it. It was finally an answer to step off the Iguodala treadmill.

It's pure fantasy to pretend that the Sixers fans suffered. At the end of the day, show me a team who went from 10 to 52 wins in a two year span. If that isn't proof the plan worked, you're coping.

Nailed it. The 'enduring' years were actually the years between AI and The Process, if we want to be really honest. I had practically stopped watching out of boredom and just knowing it was going to be another 1st round exit and mediocre pick. The Process gave us hope, and something to actually root for in the lottery, draft, and the trades Hinkie would make.

Which brings me back to the beginning. What was the alternate to the Process? Hope one of our Thad Young / Marreese Speights / Jrue Holiday mid-first rounders magically ends up being Kobe or Giannis? That strategy is much worse than bottoming out for. a few seasons, but I guess if the fans don't have to suffer by being able to witness 2 home playoff games each year then by all means crucify Sam lol.

There was no alternative. I agree with what you're saying. People think it's that easy to just find and then build a winner. "Lets model our team after the Heat" "No, we need to do what the Celtics are doing." I think the only model franchise I would ever suggest emulating would be San Antonio during the Duncan era and that doesn't happen without Tim Duncan OR the stars aligning perfectly and everyone being on the same page from the front office on down to the actual roster. You also need healthy superstars which Duncan always was. I mean...How many rings did Portland miss out on because Greg Oden couldn't get healthy? Andrew Bynum!

The Andrew Bynum debacle was one of the hardest things I think any of us as fans had to endure. We could have traded Iguodala for anything...Anything at all and gotten some compensation in return. Bynum was our compensation and the Lakers knowingly fleeced us horribly. Danny Ainge and his evil laugh took note of this and fleeced us again a few years later. We went through a slew of failed late first round picks..Speights, Brackins, Rodney Carney, Arnette Moultrie who was so bad he never even played a game for us. Drafting Arnette Moultrie in the first round and him literally doing nothing at all for us is forever burned into my memory. However, the Bynum BS was the last straw. What a horrible season that was! "The treadmill keeps breaking down and Bynum can't work out because of it." That was the best excuse this franchise could come up with and yet here it was covertly code for "Bynum has degenerative knee damage." Why not just say Ninjas infiltrated the building and stole all the cardio equipment? That would have been much better. No, no...Bynum was the beginning of the end, and it came swiftly.

Tearing it down was the only way to go about building this team into at the very least a contending team. I also remember a lot of us being on the same page about how the tanking, and process itself was only part of the act. The other part being that you needed an incredible amount of luck in order to see it through to fruition. I would say that luck itself hasn't exactly been on our side. First Hinkie was canned unjustly, after that Colonjello showed up to f**k up some more stuff for us. As I said earlier Ainge conned us in the Fultz trade. We let Butler go to Miami for Josh Richardson. We signed Al Horford which was an atrocity! What did Brand give him? It was 39 million dollars a year to be a back up??? Something crazy I can't remember! Luckily we hired Morey to fix Brand's stupidity. At that point just give Brand a Fisher Price My First Laptop and call it good. Oh lets not forget that wedrafted Zhaire Smith after trading the player that everyone thought we were going to draft. That player has blossomed into a star now while Smith is probably playing somewhere in Australia. Joel Embiid has been littered with injuries, Ben Simmons turned out to be a fraudulent head case who is nothing more than a mouse turd of a human. It's been a rough road! I could go on and on!

Personally I am ready to just take a deep breathe and step back with this team. I mean that as a whole...Let Harden go back to Houston. He wants to play the leverage game? Make every last possible penny he can make so that his great great grandchildren can remain millionaires? I get it, but go do it elsewhere. Heaven forbid Embiid asks out, but if he does then by all means! Lets grant him that wish and move him for a soul. I see no issue at all with taking a step back next season and just re-evaluating where we are, and where we're trying to get. But...We did just hire Nick Nurse! My biggest fear is that we start doing the same crap we did with Iverson. Just throwing $hit at a wall and hoping it sticks! I remember after the Finals run we were desperate to find AI a Robin. Keith Van-Horn, Glenn Robinson, Chris Webber...Each year it got worse. If we start doing this with Embiid it's only going to get worse. If Harden walks and we trade Maxey for Zach Lavine I'm going to explode with anger. Surely Morey is smarter than Billy King right? I mean King was a colossal idiot, but a mastermind when it came to sacking a franchise and then slowly sinking it. I don't know what Morey's plans are here or the teams for that matter, but there needs to be some actual thought behind all of this. Which now brings me back to our coaching hire.

We just hired Nick Nurse! That to me signals that this team wants to win now. You don't hire the hottest available name on the market only to tank and spend a year just "evaluating" as I suggested. If that had been the plan then we would have brought in someone like Chauncey Billups...Ya know...A robot of a human who has and shows zero emotion of any kind. Coaches like Jason Kidd and Billups make Doc Rivers and his clapping "lets go guys" chant look like a savant! A player like Harden would absolutely love Chauncey Billups as his head coach because he's cool and likes Lamborghini's, but Nurse is probably not going to be "cool guy" that Harden is hoping for which leads me to nothing but more confusion. We want to win...Hiring Nurse signals that...But the signs point to Harden hightailing it back to Houston to go to strip clubs with Damian Cryer. I mean what exactly is the plan here? If it's not Harden, I only hope it's smarter than Zach Lavine or Brad Beal.

[Arsenal]

lol.

The only people who think they were owed anything are the same ones who pushed Hinkie out and are currently calling for everyone to be fired.

Its listening to those dinosaurs that led us to the exact situation we are in now IMO. The fans who were okay with "losing on purpose" were the patient ones. This twisted idea that the process was def going to lead to a chip is only parrotted by those were against it. The plan was to get the guy, identify if he is the guy, and build around said guy while maintaining the "optionality" to make moves at all times. After Collars and Friends took over; they never decided who to build around between Ben and Biid (and honestly built more around Ben's weaknesses than anything) and proceeded to chuck all assets less they look like Hinkie's kick the can strats for immediate gain. The selling of second round picks like candy, wasting the remaining 1sts on TLCs and Korkmaz' and Picnic Baskets because lol who needs em amirite...It was all hands on deck right now for immediate success...the absolute opposite of the process.

I am not one of the ones who worships the ground Hinkie walks on. I think drafting Jah was **** stupid and probably deservingly so cost him his job. But to this day people seem to not grasp the whole process idea.. The main theory was that this **** takes time and always having tools to pivot was the best way for THAT version of the Sixers to build. It got hijacked by dudes looking to prove that they deserved the job and the that method was bad and it has negatively effected the whole organization because now we probably can't take our time because we lack it but also we can't really make any moves because we lack assets. Those are two things a process allows a better run organization to do. Look at OKC...they fell backwards into a star in SGA and still have assets to burn and still have some on the way. The Celtics main core is full of top 5-7 picks...just because they came via other teams tanking doesn't change that. Our FO would have traded one of the Jays already. They would have thrown all of OKCs picks at some "star". So if there is any losing culture it is fully due to the FO being reactionary clowns who have backed themselves into so many corners. There are so many inflection points over the past few years that could have saved it (IMO going from a friendly coach in Brett to ...another one in Doc is an overlooked one IMO...Biid and Ben didn't need any more friend coaches at that point of their careers IMO; Boston got over their hump going from Stevens to Ime who would just call people bitches lol...and then go have sex with peoples wives...but still) but they either double down on the bad decision or pivoted to a worse one lol.

To blame that on the process and the fans is just flat out wrong IMO.

This is a terrific post. The Process wasn't about losing games for a few years then spending all the assets like drunken sailors desperately chasing the championship the fans were somehow "owed". It was about acquiring the player or players to build around, and then to sustain a high level by always having assets to improve the team.

The Colangelos and those that followed were brought in to wreck the entire idea of the Process and make it almost a dirty word. They couldn't have sabotaged the franchise any more if it had been their specific purpose to do so. I can't ever hear the itemization of the moves made without despising Adam Silver a little more than I already do.

Adam Slither is a war criminal in the city of Philadelphia. He should be put on trial.

[Negrodamus]

Read on Twitter

More than “dogs” and grit, it might just be that these teams needed more time to become a cohesive unit (like, years) before they could make this jump. The alternative to cohesiveness is packing the team full of superstars and ring chasing high level role players.

[GoSixersBro]

Nailed it. The 'enduring' years were actually the years between AI and The Process, if we want to be really honest. I had practically stopped watching out of boredom and just knowing it was going to be another 1st round exit and mediocre pick. The Process gave us hope, and something to actually root for in the lottery, draft, and the trades Hinkie would make.

Which brings me back to the beginning. What was the alternate to the Process? Hope one of our Thad Young / Marreese Speights / Jrue Holiday mid-first rounders magically ends up being Kobe or Giannis? That strategy is much worse than bottoming out for. a few seasons, but I guess if the fans don't have to suffer by being able to witness 2 home playoff games each year then by all means crucify Sam lol.

There was no alternative. I agree with what you're saying. People think it's that easy to just find and then build a winner. "Lets model our team after the Heat" "No, we need to do what the Celtics are doing." I think the only model franchise I would ever suggest emulating would be San Antonio during the Duncan era and that doesn't happen without Tim Duncan OR the stars aligning perfectly and everyone being on the same page from the front office on down to the actual roster. You also need healthy superstars which Duncan always was. I mean...How many rings did Portland miss out on because Greg Oden couldn't get healthy? Andrew Bynum!

The Andrew Bynum debacle was one of the hardest things I think any of us as fans had to endure. We could have traded Iguodala for anything...Anything at all and gotten some compensation in return. Bynum was our compensation and the Lakers knowingly fleeced us horribly. Danny Ainge and his evil laugh took note of this and fleeced us again a few years later. We went through a slew of failed late first round picks..Speights, Brackins, Rodney Carney, Arnette Moultrie who was so bad he never even played a game for us. Drafting Arnette Moultrie in the first round and him literally doing nothing at all for us is forever burned into my memory. However, the Bynum BS was the last straw. What a horrible season that was! "The treadmill keeps breaking down and Bynum can't work out because of it." That was the best excuse this franchise could come up with and yet here it was covertly code for "Bynum has degenerative knee damage." Why not just say Ninjas infiltrated the building and stole all the cardio equipment? That would have been much better. No, no...Bynum was the beginning of the end, and it came swiftly.

Tearing it down was the only way to go about building this team into at the very least a contending team. I also remember a lot of us being on the same page about how the tanking, and process itself was only part of the act. The other part being that you needed an incredible amount of luck in order to see it through to fruition. I would say that luck itself hasn't exactly been on our side. First Hinkie was canned unjustly, after that Colonjello showed up to f**k up some more stuff for us. As I said earlier Ainge conned us in the Fultz trade. We let Butler go to Miami for Josh Richardson. We signed Al Horford which was an atrocity! What did Brand give him? It was 39 million dollars a year to be a back up??? Something crazy I can't remember! Luckily we hired Morey to fix Brand's stupidity. At that point just give Brand a Fisher Price My First Laptop and call it good. Oh lets not forget that wedrafted Zhaire Smith after trading the player that everyone thought we were going to draft. That player has blossomed into a star now while Smith is probably playing somewhere in Australia. Joel Embiid has been littered with injuries, Ben Simmons turned out to be a fraudulent head case who is nothing more than a mouse turd of a human. It's been a rough road! I could go on and on!

Personally I am ready to just take a deep breathe and step back with this team. I mean that as a whole...Let Harden go back to Houston. He wants to play the leverage game? Make every last possible penny he can make so that his great great grandchildren can remain millionaires? I get it, but go do it elsewhere. Heaven forbid Embiid asks out, but if he does then by all means! Lets grant him that wish and move him for a soul. I see no issue at all with taking a step back next season and just re-evaluating where we are, and where we're trying to get. But...We did just hire Nick Nurse! My biggest fear is that we start doing the same crap we did with Iverson. Just throwing $hit at a wall and hoping it sticks! I remember after the Finals run we were desperate to find AI a Robin. Keith Van-Horn, Glenn Robinson, Chris Webber...Each year it got worse. If we start doing this with Embiid it's only going to get worse. If Harden walks and we trade Maxey for Zach Lavine I'm going to explode with anger. Surely Morey is smarter than Billy King right? I mean King was a colossal idiot, but a mastermind when it came to sacking a franchise and then slowly sinking it. I don't know what Morey's plans are here or the teams for that matter, but there needs to be some actual thought behind all of this. Which now brings me back to our coaching hire.

We just hired Nick Nurse! That to me signals that this team wants to win now. You don't hire the hottest available name on the market only to tank and spend a year just "evaluating" as I suggested. If that had been the plan then we would have brought in someone like Chauncey Billups...Ya know...A robot of a human who has and shows zero emotion of any kind. Coaches like Jason Kidd and Billups make Doc Rivers and his clapping "lets go guys" chant look like a savant! A player like Harden would absolutely love Chauncey Billups as his head coach because he's cool and likes Lamborghini's, but Nurse is probably not going to be "cool guy" that Harden is hoping for which leads me to nothing but more confusion. We want to win...Hiring Nurse signals that...But the signs point to Harden hightailing it back to Houston to go to strip clubs with Damian Cryer. I mean what exactly is the plan here? If it's not Harden, I only hope it's smarter than Zach Lavine or Brad Beal.

Enjoyed this post thoroughly. Well done. Only thing I need to say is Arnett Moultrie definitely played for us. 59 games total according to ESPN. But yeah, he was a late first rounder selected by Miami who we traded for.

However, your point remains. The Thad Young, Rodney Carney, Speights picks never ever were going to propel this team. Even Iguodala who was 9th overall can be thrown in there.

Fun fact is from 1999-2009 we never selected higher than 9 which was Iguodala in 2004. How do you get Iverson help in those years? Like Explosions said, bad FA signings like Harpring, KVH, Big Dog, damaged Webber. How do you truly hit the reset button after AI is traded? Not by gunning for that 7-8 seed like we always did. If you want to witness that in real time, please refer to the current Washington Wizards.

[Negrodamus]

Arnett Moultrie, wow. Miss State legend. Kind of a poor man’s Mareese Speights funny enough.

[Ferry Avenue]

Read on Twitter

More than “dogs” and grit, it might just be that these teams needed more time to become a cohesive unit (like, years) before they could make this jump. The alternative to cohesiveness is packing the team full of superstars and ring chasing high level role players.

That sort of thing explains small samples. When an eight-seed beats a one-seed, a two-seed, and appears to be making a formidable push to beat another one-seed in the NBA championship, all over seven-game series, that's a large sample. The probability with which the Heat would proceed through the playoffs in that manner was minuscule. The Vegas odds for the Heat to win the championship at the start of the playoffs were +30000. You could've bet $100 on them then and won $30,000 if they win the title. Bucking odds of that nature certainly isn't exclusively a function of what's illustrated in the tweet above. Contrast that with Milwaukee, a one-seed they beat 4-1, whose title odds were a mere +265.

Likewise when the New England Patriots for example sustain very high-level success for two decades, there is far more than just physical factors at work over that large a sample. There are team culture variables that persist despite variation in physical factors, that distinguish them significantly from the rest of the league.

[Negrodamus]

Read on Twitter

More than “dogs” and grit, it might just be that these teams needed more time to become a cohesive unit (like, years) before they could make this jump. The alternative to cohesiveness is packing the team full of superstars and ring chasing high level role players.

That sort of thing explains small samples. When an eight-seed beats a one-seed, a two-seed, and appears to be making a formidable push to beat another one-seed in the NBA championship, all over seven-game series, that's a large sample. The probability with which the Heat would proceed through the playoffs in that manner was minuscule. The Vegas odds for the Heat to win the championship at the start of the playoffs were +30000. You could've bet $100 on them then and won $30,000 if they win the title. Bucking odds of that nature certainly isn't exclusively a function of what's illustrated in the tweet above.

Likewise when the New England Patriots for example sustain very high-level success for two decades, there is far more than just physical factors at work over that large a sample. There are team culture variables that persist despite variation in physical factors, that are distinguishing them significantly from the rest of the league.

Or it's the continuity. The sample size of this group goes back to 2019 when they went to the bubble championship game. Had a trash playoffs the following year where the dogs stayed home. The next year made the ECF. This year in the Finals. To look at this team and say they're a normal 8 seed would be completely ignoring context and history. Just like the Patriots run, they largely had the same guys around for two decades (and, for the most part, stayed healthy). That's probably the secret ingredient.

[Ferry Avenue]

Read on Twitter

More than “dogs” and grit, it might just be that these teams needed more time to become a cohesive unit (like, years) before they could make this jump. The alternative to cohesiveness is packing the team full of superstars and ring chasing high level role players.

That sort of thing explains small samples. When an eight-seed beats a one-seed, a two-seed, and appears to be making a formidable push to beat another one-seed in the NBA championship, all over seven-game series, that's a large sample. The probability with which the Heat would proceed through the playoffs in that manner was minuscule. The Vegas odds for the Heat to win the championship at the start of the playoffs were +30000. You could've bet $100 on them then and won $30,000 if they win the title. Bucking odds of that nature certainly isn't exclusively a function of what's illustrated in the tweet above.

Likewise when the New England Patriots for example sustain very high-level success for two decades, there is far more than just physical factors at work over that large a sample. There are team culture variables that persist despite variation in physical factors, that are distinguishing them significantly from the rest of the league.

Or it's the continuity. The sample size of this group goes back to 2019 when they went to the bubble championship game. Had a trash playoffs the following year where the dogs stayed home. The next year made the ECF. This year in the Finals. To look at this team and say they're a normal 8 seed would be completely ignoring context and history. Just like the Patriots run, they largely had the same guys around for two decades (and, for the most part, stayed healthy). That's probably the secret ingredient.

The Patriots had loads of variation in personnel over those two decades. The constant was Belichick and Brady, who together created the culture and made it persist. New players were simply assimilated into it. Randy Moss for example, previously a malcontent, shaped up and flew right as part of the Patriots culture, and was a key ingredient in their nearly undefeated 2007 season.

If you want to argue that the Heat have a culture that persists despite variation in personnel, I'll agree with that all day. In that sense the key ingredients could very well be Spoelstra and Udonis Haslem, much like Belichick and Brady. There is most certainly a reason they keep Haslem around when he almost never takes the court. His effect has to be almost entirely in the locker room and on the sideline.

[Negrodamus]

That sort of thing explains small samples. When an eight-seed beats a one-seed, a two-seed, and appears to be making a formidable push to beat another one-seed in the NBA championship, all over seven-game series, that's a large sample. The probability with which the Heat would proceed through the playoffs in that manner was minuscule. The Vegas odds for the Heat to win the championship at the start of the playoffs were +30000. You could've bet $100 on them then and won $30,000 if they win the title. Bucking odds of that nature certainly isn't exclusively a function of what's illustrated in the tweet above.

Likewise when the New England Patriots for example sustain very high-level success for two decades, there is far more than just physical factors at work over that large a sample. There are team culture variables that persist despite variation in physical factors, that are distinguishing them significantly from the rest of the league.

Or it's the continuity. The sample size of this group goes back to 2019 when they went to the bubble championship game. Had a trash playoffs the following year where the dogs stayed home. The next year made the ECF. This year in the Finals. To look at this team and say they're a normal 8 seed would be completely ignoring context and history. Just like the Patriots run, they largely had the same guys around for two decades (and, for the most part, stayed healthy). That's probably the secret ingredient.

The Patriots had loads of variation in personnel over those two decades. The constant was Belichick and Brady, who together created the culture and made it persist. New players were simply assimilated into it. Randy Moss for example, previously a malcontent, shaped up and flew right as part of the Patriots culture, and was a key ingredient in their nearly undefeated 2007 season.

If you want to argue that the Heat have a culture that persists despite variation in personnel, I'll agree with that all day. In that sense the key ingredients could very well be Spoelstra and Udonis Haslem, muck like Belichick and Brady. There is most certainly a reason they keep Haslem around when he almost never takes the court. His effect has to be almost entirely in the locker room and on the sideline.

But there isn't much variation in personnel, so I don't understand that point. The starters for the 2019 Lakers series were Jimmy Butler, Tyler Herro, Duncan Robinson, Jae Crowder, and Bam Adebayo. Only one of those guys is no longer on the Heat. Yes, I'm sure Pat Riley's prospect/free agent archetype is focused on hard workers and gym rats. That definitely contributes to success and the "Heat Culture" stuff. But understanding the playbook and having a level of comfort with your teammates after playing with them for years is probably more important.

There isn't grind your heart out "Nuggets Culture" always trending on basketball boards. But Jokic knows where everyone is on the court all the time and can toss passes on the money to where MPJ and Jamal Murray like it because he's been playing with them 4-6 years. Their offense is a well oiled machine; in part because of immense talent, but also because of, you guessed it, continuity.

[mjkvol]

That sort of thing explains small samples. When an eight-seed beats a one-seed, a two-seed, and appears to be making a formidable push to beat another one-seed in the NBA championship, all over seven-game series, that's a large sample. The probability with which the Heat would proceed through the playoffs in that manner was minuscule. The Vegas odds for the Heat to win the championship at the start of the playoffs were +30000. You could've bet $100 on them then and won $30,000 if they win the title. Bucking odds of that nature certainly isn't exclusively a function of what's illustrated in the tweet above.

Likewise when the New England Patriots for example sustain very high-level success for two decades, there is far more than just physical factors at work over that large a sample. There are team culture variables that persist despite variation in physical factors, that are distinguishing them significantly from the rest of the league.

Or it's the continuity. The sample size of this group goes back to 2019 when they went to the bubble championship game. Had a trash playoffs the following year where the dogs stayed home. The next year made the ECF. This year in the Finals. To look at this team and say they're a normal 8 seed would be completely ignoring context and history. Just like the Patriots run, they largely had the same guys around for two decades (and, for the most part, stayed healthy). That's probably the secret ingredient.

The Patriots had loads of variation in personnel over those two decades. The constant was Belichick and Brady, who together created the culture and made it persist. New players were simply assimilated into it. Randy Moss for example, previously a malcontent, shaped up and flew right as part of the Patriots culture, and was a key ingredient in their nearly undefeated 2007 season.

If you want to argue that the Heat have a culture that persists despite variation in personnel, I'll agree with that all day. In that sense the key ingredients could very well be Spoelstra and Udonis Haslem, muck like Belichick and Brady. There is most certainly a reason they keep Haslem around when he almost never takes the court. His effect has to be almost entirely in the locker room and on the sideline.

Udonis Haslem was a middle of the road player, while Tom Brady was not just one of the greatest QB's, but greatest players in NFL history. The type of QB that actually made players better, turning average WR's like Deion Branch, Wes Welker, and Julian Edelman into stars. Belicheck is the greatest coach in league history.

But it's funny that despite the great cultures in New England and San Antonio and with two GOAT coaches, once the talent dried up so did the incredible success. Miami and Spoelstra have only won titles with superstar players, and not since 2013. The same thing will happen to the Warriors as the stars age and their replacements are inevitably not on the same level.

Culture will always be important in any winning sports organization, but the 'winning' part depends far more on having consistent leadership, top end talent, the right fitting pieces around that talent, and a plan in place that maximizes the talent. A great culture without all those factors in place produces results like the Heat have had since 2013 - good, but not good enough.