The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV

[youngcrev]

Exactly this. 3&D is what we need. Sure, Ben is an elite defender. But put simply a great defender who can also hit knock down catch and shoot 3s on the floor, and the results improve IMO.

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So if we just had one more Danny Green we'd be unstoppable? The guy that we are clamoring to get a playmaking upgrade over?

It's more like, I want to upgrade the starters by replacing Danny with a better version of himself, while upgrading from Ben to Shake as the playmaker/scorer.

I see the following 10 man lineup as a championship contender:

Embiid/Howard
Harris/Upgrade stretch 4
Upgrade 3&D/Green
Milton/Upgrade vet 3pt shooter
Curry/Maxey

If Ben can be traded for essentially 3 role players on solid long term, cheaper contracts...I see Milton being unleashed and taking the next step into being a Star.

He's already been stellar on defense, and his offense is unquestionable as a 3 level scorer with or without the ball in his hands. He's unafraid of the big moments.

Embiid with 4 shooters is unstoppable. Can't double team him without paying a price with a 3pt shot. Can't cover him with just 1 guy when he catches at the free throw line and has space to work.

Embiid/Shake as the offensive "go-to" and closers. Harris as the 3rd option on offense who takes over when Embiid needs rest. Curry, 3&D wing as the complementary pieces. Howard, Green as vets off the bench. Maxey as the creator off the bench, given free will to go get buckets. Just need a stretch 4 and shooter at the 2 coming off the bench to complete a well-rounded team.

I see Shake as being an elite perimeter creator/shooter/scorer. So rather than try to trade for one that is a diva, costs a lot and doesn't have chemistry with anyone, let's turn Shake loose on the league and trade for better complementary/fit pieces around Embiid.

Utilize Ben to turn this team into a deep, contending team that has continuity for 3+ years with everyone under contract except Danny and Dwight. And we have Matisse in the Danny mold for next season. Just need to draft or sign a Dwight type.

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We just disagree I guess. I think swapping out Ben for a Dillon Brooks type (just using him as an example since you've brought him up) makes this team significantly worse.

And if Shake can be an elite perimeter creator/shooter/scorer, then he's the exact piece we've been looking for as the 3rd banana with Embiid and Simmons.

I'm optimistic about Shake, but I'm not ready to go that far.

But, going under the premise that he is...

Wouldn't you be way better off sliding him into Green's starting spot and looking to improve your bench to fill the void.

Say you trade ancillary pieces for PJ Tucker and Evan Fournier (both names fresh on my mind from the last RTRS).

Then you'd have:
Shake as your perimeter creator
Curry as your elite shooter
Ben as your distributor/defender/transition threat
Harris as your 3rd scorer
Embiid as your centerpiece

IF Shake is what you believe him to be, that's a lineup with enough shooting, scoring and defense to compete.

Then you'd have:
Maxey, Fournier, Tucker, Dwight, and whatever you haven't traded off the bench.

Maxey and Fournier give you some quality offensive punch. Tucker gives you a defensive chess piece that could allow you to go small and switchable at times.

I mean, personally I think that team would still lack a go-to perimeter guy, but if we're anointing Shake, that problem is solved.

[51X3RF4N]

So if we just had one more Danny Green we'd be unstoppable? The guy that we are clamoring to get a playmaking upgrade over?

It's more like, I want to upgrade the starters by replacing Danny with a better version of himself, while upgrading from Ben to Shake as the playmaker/scorer.

I see the following 10 man lineup as a championship contender:

Embiid/Howard
Harris/Upgrade stretch 4
Upgrade 3&D/Green
Milton/Upgrade vet 3pt shooter
Curry/Maxey

If Ben can be traded for essentially 3 role players on solid long term, cheaper contracts...I see Milton being unleashed and taking the next step into being a Star.

He's already been stellar on defense, and his offense is unquestionable as a 3 level scorer with or without the ball in his hands. He's unafraid of the big moments.

Embiid with 4 shooters is unstoppable. Can't double team him without paying a price with a 3pt shot. Can't cover him with just 1 guy when he catches at the free throw line and has space to work.

Embiid/Shake as the offensive "go-to" and closers. Harris as the 3rd option on offense who takes over when Embiid needs rest. Curry, 3&D wing as the complementary pieces. Howard, Green as vets off the bench. Maxey as the creator off the bench, given free will to go get buckets. Just need a stretch 4 and shooter at the 2 coming off the bench to complete a well-rounded team.

I see Shake as being an elite perimeter creator/shooter/scorer. So rather than try to trade for one that is a diva, costs a lot and doesn't have chemistry with anyone, let's turn Shake loose on the league and trade for better complementary/fit pieces around Embiid.

Utilize Ben to turn this team into a deep, contending team that has continuity for 3+ years with everyone under contract except Danny and Dwight. And we have Matisse in the Danny mold for next season. Just need to draft or sign a Dwight type.

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We just disagree I guess. I think swapping out Ben for a Dillon Brooks type (just using him as an example since you've brought him up) makes this team significantly worse.

And if Shake can be an elite perimeter creator/shooter/scorer, then he's the exact piece we've been looking for as the 3rd banana with Embiid and Simmons.

I'm optimistic about Shake, but I'm not ready to go that far.

But, going under the premise that he is...

Wouldn't you be way better off sliding him into Green's starting spot and looking to improve your bench to fill the void.

Say you trade ancillary pieces for PJ Tucker and Evan Fournier (both names fresh on my mind from the last RTRS).

Then you'd have:
Shake as your perimeter creator
Curry as your elite shooter
Ben as your distributor/defender/transition threat
Harris as your 3rd scorer
Embiid as your centerpiece

IF Shake is what you believe him to be, that's a lineup with enough shooting, scoring and defense to compete.

Then you'd have:
Maxey, Fournier, Tucker, Dwight, and whatever you haven't traded off the bench.

Maxey and Fournier give you some quality offensive punch. Tucker gives you a defensive chess piece that could allow you to go small and switchable at times.

I mean, personally I think that team would still lack a go-to perimeter guy, but if we're anointing Shake, that problem is solved.

I agree with your lineup assessments. Here is my biggest issue.

If Ben is on the floor, defenses simply don't have to account for him in the half court. And this means everyone else has to work that much harder and against more double teams than normal.

When Shake was hot the other night in leading the comeback, they started trapping and double teaming him with Simmons' defender.

That just can't be a thing we continue to see.

Ben is so limited on offense it's like playing 4v5.

And in late game situations, or close games when every possession is more important than usual, I don't want Ben limiting the team's ability to get a bucket.

I'm absolutely fine with Ben during the regular season, and during the first 3.5 quarters of games.

But when the game is on the line, if we are game 7 of the Finals, I don't want Ben in the game. And that is my biggest problem with him at the moment.

If we want to be a championship contender, we can't have a starting player who is going to limit the team when there's 10 seconds left and you need a bucket, and his defender just doesn't even care to defend him.

I'd rather take the defensive hit by getting a lesser defender out there, but one who can hit catch and shoot 3s so that you can't double Embiid?? That makes a big difference in my eyes.

And I personally have given up hope that Ben will develop into anything more than he is now. Which makes me want to maximize on his perceived trade value around the league now, and get back serviceable players to put around Embiid so he can lead us to a championship. I think he's that good, that dominant when there's 4 shooters around him. Maybe it's not Brooks you go get, but someone who can defend the wings and hit 3pt shots. Covington technically but he's also not super consistent as a shooter. Hell, you can make it a star player if you want. It just needs to be a tall wing who can guard Forwards and hit 3s.

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[phillynative]

Ben Simmons is a generational talent that has one massive flaw.

Is that one massive flaw having no offensive game to speak of?

[spikeslovechild]

I mean his massive flaw isn't his offensive game it's that he plays afraid. Maxey 3PT shot is all kinds of ugly but he still shoots it and is working on making it better.

Simmons biggest flaw is happy with where he is as a player and doesn't feel the need to get better.

[phifans]

I mean his massive flaw isn't his offensive game it's that he plays afraid. Maxey 3PT shot is all kinds of ugly but he still shoots it and is working on making it better.

Simmons biggest flaw is happy with where he is as a player and doesn't feel the need to get better.

Or maybe he actually tried just to find out that he simply doesn't have it. You know so he made up his mind to pretend he's satisfied with it as long as nobody figures out what the real deal he is ...

[Sportfan73]

So if we just had one more Danny Green we'd be unstoppable? The guy that we are clamoring to get a playmaking upgrade over?

It's more like, I want to upgrade the starters by replacing Danny with a better version of himself, while upgrading from Ben to Shake as the playmaker/scorer.

I see the following 10 man lineup as a championship contender:

Embiid/Howard
Harris/Upgrade stretch 4
Upgrade 3&D/Green
Milton/Upgrade vet 3pt shooter
Curry/Maxey

If Ben can be traded for essentially 3 role players on solid long term, cheaper contracts...I see Milton being unleashed and taking the next step into being a Star.

He's already been stellar on defense, and his offense is unquestionable as a 3 level scorer with or without the ball in his hands. He's unafraid of the big moments.

Embiid with 4 shooters is unstoppable. Can't double team him without paying a price with a 3pt shot. Can't cover him with just 1 guy when he catches at the free throw line and has space to work.

Embiid/Shake as the offensive "go-to" and closers. Harris as the 3rd option on offense who takes over when Embiid needs rest. Curry, 3&D wing as the complementary pieces. Howard, Green as vets off the bench. Maxey as the creator off the bench, given free will to go get buckets. Just need a stretch 4 and shooter at the 2 coming off the bench to complete a well-rounded team.

I see Shake as being an elite perimeter creator/shooter/scorer. So rather than try to trade for one that is a diva, costs a lot and doesn't have chemistry with anyone, let's turn Shake loose on the league and trade for better complementary/fit pieces around Embiid.

Utilize Ben to turn this team into a deep, contending team that has continuity for 3+ years with everyone under contract except Danny and Dwight. And we have Matisse in the Danny mold for next season. Just need to draft or sign a Dwight type.

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We just disagree I guess. I think swapping out Ben for a Dillon Brooks type (just using him as an example since you've brought him up) makes this team significantly worse.

And if Shake can be an elite perimeter creator/shooter/scorer, then he's the exact piece we've been looking for as the 3rd banana with Embiid and Simmons.

I'm optimistic about Shake, but I'm not ready to go that far.

But, going under the premise that he is...

Wouldn't you be way better off sliding him into Green's starting spot and looking to improve your bench to fill the void.

Say you trade ancillary pieces for PJ Tucker and Evan Fournier (both names fresh on my mind from the last RTRS).

Then you'd have:
Shake as your perimeter creator
Curry as your elite shooter
Ben as your distributor/defender/transition threat
Harris as your 3rd scorer
Embiid as your centerpiece

IF Shake is what you believe him to be, that's a lineup with enough shooting, scoring and defense to compete.

Then you'd have:
Maxey, Fournier, Tucker, Dwight, and whatever you haven't traded off the bench.

Maxey and Fournier give you some quality offensive punch. Tucker gives you a defensive chess piece that could allow you to go small and switchable at times.

I mean, personally I think that team would still lack a go-to perimeter guy, but if we're anointing Shake, that problem is solved.

I’m down, IF we can resign Fournier. I think if we’re moving Green it has to be for someone who we either reallllly think we can retain, or is already signed beyond this year

[76ciology]

I mean his massive flaw isn't his offensive game it's that he plays afraid. Maxey 3PT shot is all kinds of ugly but he still shoots it and is working on making it better.

Simmons biggest flaw is happy with where he is as a player and doesn't feel the need to get better.

I’ll also be afraid if my shot is going to expose to the league that i dont have a shooting touch of an NBA player and more of a shooting touch of a Australian football player

[spikeslovechild]

I mean his massive flaw isn't his offensive game it's that he plays afraid. Maxey 3PT shot is all kinds of ugly but he still shoots it and is working on making it better.

Simmons biggest flaw is happy with where he is as a player and doesn't feel the need to get better.

I’ll also be afraid if my shot is going to expose to the league that i dont have a shooting touch of an NBA player and more of a shooting touch of a Australian football player

The secret has been out for a while though. If that is the reason it isn't working well for him.

[Jhawk03]

I mean his massive flaw isn't his offensive game it's that he plays afraid. Maxey 3PT shot is all kinds of ugly but he still shoots it and is working on making it better.

Simmons biggest flaw is happy with where he is as a player and doesn't feel the need to get better.

I’ll also be afraid if my shot is going to expose to the league that i dont have a shooting touch of an NBA player and more of a shooting touch of a Australian football player

The secret has been out for a while though. If that is the reason it isn't working well for him.

I'll say this, and be done with the whole Ben topic.

What type of nba player can work their way to being Ben with a max contract, and NOT have a reasonable offensive skill??

So I guess Ben is one of a kind... Stans be damned

[Jhawk03]

I mean his massive flaw isn't his offensive game it's that he plays afraid. Maxey 3PT shot is all kinds of ugly but he still shoots it and is working on making it better.

Simmons biggest flaw is happy with where he is as a player and doesn't feel the need to get better.

I think I mentioned this very thing about Ben being happy with his situation, but carry on.

[76ciology]

I’ll also be afraid if my shot is going to expose to the league that i dont have a shooting touch of an NBA player and more of a shooting touch of a Australian football player

The secret has been out for a while though. If that is the reason it isn't working well for him.

I'll say this, and be done with the whole Ben topic.

What type of nba player can work their way to being Ben with a max contract, and NOT have a reasonable offensive skill??

So I guess Ben is one of a kind... Stans be damned

Maybe he’s overpaid then.

[76ciology]

You dont trade Ben for role players.

You only trade him for superior scorers or a bunch of draft picks that could help you acquire a superior scorer.

[sixers4real]

First of all, I wanted Sixers to trade Simmons, Thybulle, 2 FRPs, 3 swaps for James Harden.

I thought Simmons, Maxey, 3FRPs, 3 swaps is way too much, and if Morey turned that down, good.
Harden would make us legit contender, but there is no guarantee (as there is no guarantee with Nets to win it all, I still have both LA teams over them) for a title.
What happened, happened.

Now, if we will look at Simmons as if James Harden would be in Simmons place, this will not go well, we all have to understand that. He is not James Harden. 99% he won't ever be as good on offence.
If we will think about potential Simmons to Houston trade every time Harden and Nets play good and win, this will not end well for us and Simmons.

I'm quite sure Simmons feels all the negative about him going everywhere online. If this will continue, he will request the trade himself, and we will get a couple of first rounders for him, and Morey won't save us here.

Most of us are diehard Sixers fans. We have to support him, that's the way it can work for him being better.

Say what you want about him being mentally soft, but this 24-year kid is struggling right now, we all saw him perform much better on offence.

Bottom line: I wish Simmons well, I'm not making any trades for some role players and picks for him. I would only trade him for clear cut superstar or age fit (Lillard Booker).

[snoopdogg88]

I completely believe the rumors that he’s a fake hard worker. Only works hard when the cameras are on and has a carefully crafted social media image to make people think he’s this Kobe type, when really he’s all about doing the bare minimum and enjoying the LA mansion rentals in the offseason.

He’s like the ultimate millennial athlete. Extremely concerned with his image and looking cool. Totally in his own head and anxious about messing up.

Tries to avoid looking insecure which ironically makes it all the more obvious to spectators how insecure he is.

[elchengue20]

Yep thats exactly right. Its the vibe i always get from Simmons. Hes way too inmature and insecure.

I have to say though that he shot pretty well from the line tonight. 70% in 10 attempts and form looked better. Hope it means something good is happening with his jumpshot.

[sodmoraes]

If things unravel badly in Brooklyn , should we trade Simmons for Irving? I know he's **** crazy but he's a very talented pg that would fit well here.

It's a very risky trade, but Simmons seems to have regressed and his value is droping fast... I worry that ,with his recent injuries , he's not the same athlete he was, and without it, he will be really bad.

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[Sixersftw]

If things unravel badly in Brooklyn , should we trade Simmons for Irving? I know he's **** crazy but he's a very talented pg that would fit well here.

It's a very risky trade, but Simmons seems to have regressed and his value is droping fast... I worry that ,with his recent injuries , he's not the same athlete he was, and without it, he will be really bad.

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Nope nope nope. Remember that we still gotta go through that team. That team has major 2 weaknesses. Kyrie and that they can't defend anyone. Giving them Ben basically remedies both issues. They'd still have depth problems but its far less pronounced in the playoffs.

We may have to move Ben but that isn't the deal.

[Kova]

Leave Ben alone. He again had some crucial defensive plays in the crunch. It's NOT about the points and shots!

[ConstableChaos]

If things unravel badly in Brooklyn , should we trade Simmons for Irving? I know he's **** crazy but he's a very talented pg that would fit well here.

It's a very risky trade, but Simmons seems to have regressed and his value is droping fast... I worry that ,with his recent injuries , he's not the same athlete he was, and without it, he will be really bad.

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Nets would be title favourites if they did that.

[ProcessDoctor]

Find something of value for him now. He doesn’t have it.