So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors

[Negrodamus]

Ross provides the scoring that Shake does (probably better), but neither of them are facilitators. Barnes is even more questionable in my mind. I get the valuation; I don’t understand the timing. This year is probably our best chance at a championship, so I’d think we would go after guys that fill deficiencies rather than a redundant player + a future asset.

[the_process]

Read on Twitter

How about this guy? He’s having his Tobi-lite season with like 50-40-90 on 16ppg.

I’d take him and a pick swap from the Kings, for expirings, 2nd rounder and Milton. Tobias Harris

FIFY.

Honestly, I know it is something that will handled in the offseason because it seems like the Sixers are going to in to the playoffs basically as is to see how they fare this time... but Tobias’ salary is an issue that has to be addressed sooner rather than later.

[Sixerscan]

Ive probably made trades here for everyone except for Embiid.

Ive even made a list of possible trades for Tobias in the trade board.

Its not like Im just trading Shake just to dispose him. The trade makes us a good of a team right now and potentially a lot better team in the future. So I dont know where I made my mistake.

It’s not that it’s fair or unfair, it just seems pretty unrealistic. I don’t think the Sixers in the middle of the season are going to trade Shake if they don’t get a point guard back or value a future asset to maybe make another trade down the road and I don’t think these lottery teams are going to do a pick swap for an unprotected pick a few months from now for Shake Milton.

Sorry, maybe its my misunderstanding.

I was referring to youngcrev’s reply to why i keep wanting to trade Shake.

Simply, I want to trade shake so we can leverage our assets with our expiring and time so we can get a really good player without having to trade Ben and even possibly Tobi.

It’s not just a pick swap with our low end first and another team’s lottery, but Im getting either Barnes or Ross. Both guys can be the scorer we need off the bench.

If we need a point guard, then we can probably sign another PG. Or even trade Barnes or Ross and a couple of second rounders for Lowry. Maybe even add Maxey.

Kings:
Shake Milton
Expiring contract
- young player and cap relief

Raptors:
Harrison Barnes
Tyrese Maxey
2nd Round Pick
- player who can contribute now and a player who can contribute later

Sixers:
Lowry
Kings lottery pick via pick swap
- lowry being a big upgrade over milton and maxey then also adding a likely lottery pick via pick swap


That way you can get Lowry and a lottery pick with just Milton, expiring contracts and 2nd rounders.

You’d then become a much better team right now (Milton+Maxey for Lowry) then a much better team in the future (lottery).

But yeah, these are all just fantasy trades and im just throwing out ideas. Im not saying these are easy trades to pull off.

I just responded to your latest post, was a general reaction to these trades you are proposing. Yes that trade would make us better now and in the future, but that is probably a sign that it isn’t a fair trade.

I don’t see why a lottery team would do an unprotected pick swap with a contending team for a backup point guard. If Shake had that much value I feel like the Sixers would just trade him for this contending player you want them to trade this pick for. Contending teams generally don’t trade for draft picks outside of weird situations like the Cavs and Kyrie.

[Kobblehead]

Those guys might be able to provide scoring production and shooting splits, but they can't create. Ross is an assisted scorer. As is Barnes. They're significant downgrades from Milton from a usefulness aspect, IMO. Again, Milton is our second best creator this year, behind Maxey.

[LloydFree]

Read on Twitter

How about this guy? He’s having his Tobi-lite season with like 50-40-90 on 16ppg.

I’d take him and a pick swap from the Kings, for expirings, 2nd rounder and Milton.

That's an insult to Harris!

Barnes is being assisted on a whopping 58% of his field goals inside the arc. Virtually zero shotcreation. Harris is only assisted on 39% of his field goals inside the arc. Barnes is just an expensive Mike Scott upgrade. Tall spacer with no defense or shotcreation.

76iology, you're pretty down on Milton, huh. Shake's jumper disappeared but he's still our second best creator behind Maxey. Why lose him and 2nd rounders for some low impact role player like Barnes? I know Morey wants a frontcourt spacer to play PF minutes, but I'm not willing to lose creators plus picks for that.

Exactly. For all the crying about overpaying Tobias Harris, you got guys on here going out of their way to think up ridiculous trades for worse players who are overpaid, like Harrison Barnes and Davis Bertans. SMH.

[76ciology]

Those guys might be able to provide scoring production and shooting splits, but they can't create. Ross is an assisted scorer. As is Barnes. They're significant downgrades from Milton from a usefulness aspect, IMO. Again, Milton is our second best creator this year, behind Maxey.

Can you define “creator”?

Because if you mean creating shots, I have Embiid by a huge margin (probably a couple of solar system) then Tobi.

[76ciology]

Spoiler:

It’s not that it’s fair or unfair, it just seems pretty unrealistic. I don’t think the Sixers in the middle of the season are going to trade Shake if they don’t get a point guard back or value a future asset to maybe make another trade down the road and I don’t think these lottery teams are going to do a pick swap for an unprotected pick a few months from now for Shake Milton.

Sorry, maybe its my misunderstanding.

I was referring to youngcrev’s reply to why i keep wanting to trade Shake.

Simply, I want to trade shake so we can leverage our assets with our expiring and time so we can get a really good player without having to trade Ben and even possibly Tobi.

It’s not just a pick swap with our low end first and another team’s lottery, but Im getting either Barnes or Ross. Both guys can be the scorer we need off the bench.

If we need a point guard, then we can probably sign another PG. Or even trade Barnes or Ross and a couple of second rounders for Lowry. Maybe even add Maxey.

Kings:
Shake Milton
Expiring contract
- young player and cap relief

Raptors:
Harrison Barnes
Tyrese Maxey
2nd Round Pick
- player who can contribute now and a player who can contribute later

Sixers:
Lowry
Kings lottery pick via pick swap
- lowry being a big upgrade over milton and maxey then also adding a likely lottery pick via pick swap


That way you can get Lowry and a lottery pick with just Milton, expiring contracts and 2nd rounders.

You’d then become a much better team right now (Milton+Maxey for Lowry) then a much better team in the future (lottery).

But yeah, these are all just fantasy trades and im just throwing out ideas. Im not saying these are easy trades to pull off.

I just responded to your latest post, was a general reaction to these trades you are proposing. Yes that trade would make us better now and in the future, but that is probably a sign that it isn’t a fair trade.

I don’t see why a lottery team would do an unprotected pick swap with a contending team for a backup point guard. If Shake had that much value I feel like the Sixers would just trade him for this contending player you want them to trade this pick for. Contending teams generally don’t trade for draft picks outside of weird situations like the Cavs and Kyrie.

Agree with your sentiment.

But then read a couple of posts above this post and you have them not wanting to trade for Barnes even if we are compensated with the PROJECTED 6TH OVERALL PICK. And that lead me to being lost.

Not referring to you sixerscan. But guys.. please read my proposal.

Im not trading for Barnes or Ross. It’s just a diversion. My real intent was to acquire that lottery pick while I dont want us to have a setback this season so we get Barnes or Ross in return to play Milton’s role. While yeah, no sane team will just handover their lottery picks without any garbage (bad contract?)

[stormi]

I think the thing about Shake is that he isn't the most natural 1. He's more of a scoring 2 that's through trial-by-fire, being forced to facilitate and navigate through tough on ball defenders, while still trying to get his own. It's not the most aesthetically pleasing product to watch sometimes and his jumper has been up and down this year, but his developmental arc is so promising, and he's on quite possibly the best contract in the league. You don't trade that away for non superstars.

[76ciology]

Read on Twitter

How about this guy? He’s having his Tobi-lite season with like 50-40-90 on 16ppg.

I’d take him and a pick swap from the Kings, for expirings, 2nd rounder and Milton. Tobias Harris

FIFY.

Honestly, I know it is something that will handled in the offseason because it seems like the Sixers are going to in to the playoffs basically as is to see how they fare this time... but Tobias’ salary is an issue that has to be addressed sooner rather than later.

We’ll just let it play out.

If clippers will call us to trade Kawhi for Tobi, sure.
If some team will call us to give us cap relief for Tobi, we’ll hang up the phone.

This team is so thirsty with scorer right now that I think Tobi has his place on the team.

I also kind of like him but I need more CONTINUOUS improvement from him.

[Kobblehead]

Those guys might be able to provide scoring production and shooting splits, but they can't create. Ross is an assisted scorer. As is Barnes. They're significant downgrades from Milton from a usefulness aspect, IMO. Again, Milton is our second best creator this year, behind Maxey.

Can you define “creator”?

Because if you mean creating shots, I have Embiid by a huge margin (probably a couple of solar system) then Tobi.

Percentage of field goals scored, unassisted. Particularly inside the arc because those are in the teeth of the defense. Guys that are assisted less are better creators, obviously.

1. Maxey - 33.7%
2. Milton - 35.2%
3. Harris - 39.2%
4. Simmons - 39.4%

Barnes at 57.8% and Ross at 52.3% are more in line with ancillary scorers like Seth Curry (59.7%) and Furkan Korkmaz (55.6%).

If you compare the scoring production, those guys are similar to Shake, but Milton is just on another level in terms of value based on his shotcreation.

[Kobblehead]

If you wanted to flip Milton for a better creator, I'd propose a guy like Delon Wright. If you can get Wright and a 2nd rounder for Milton, that's something I'd be interested in pursuing.

[Negrodamus]

Spoiler:

Sorry, maybe its my misunderstanding.

I was referring to youngcrev’s reply to why i keep wanting to trade Shake.

Simply, I want to trade shake so we can leverage our assets with our expiring and time so we can get a really good player without having to trade Ben and even possibly Tobi.

It’s not just a pick swap with our low end first and another team’s lottery, but Im getting either Barnes or Ross. Both guys can be the scorer we need off the bench.

If we need a point guard, then we can probably sign another PG. Or even trade Barnes or Ross and a couple of second rounders for Lowry. Maybe even add Maxey.

Kings:
Shake Milton
Expiring contract
- young player and cap relief

Raptors:
Harrison Barnes
Tyrese Maxey
2nd Round Pick
- player who can contribute now and a player who can contribute later

Sixers:
Lowry
Kings lottery pick via pick swap
- lowry being a big upgrade over milton and maxey then also adding a likely lottery pick via pick swap


That way you can get Lowry and a lottery pick with just Milton, expiring contracts and 2nd rounders.

You’d then become a much better team right now (Milton+Maxey for Lowry) then a much better team in the future (lottery).

But yeah, these are all just fantasy trades and im just throwing out ideas. Im not saying these are easy trades to pull off.

I just responded to your latest post, was a general reaction to these trades you are proposing. Yes that trade would make us better now and in the future, but that is probably a sign that it isn’t a fair trade.

I don’t see why a lottery team would do an unprotected pick swap with a contending team for a backup point guard. If Shake had that much value I feel like the Sixers would just trade him for this contending player you want them to trade this pick for. Contending teams generally don’t trade for draft picks outside of weird situations like the Cavs and Kyrie.

Agree with your sentiment.

But then read a couple of posts above this post and you have them not wanting to trade for Barnes even if we are compensated with the PROJECTED 6TH OVERALL PICK. And that lead me to being lost.

Not referring to you sixerscan. But guys.. please read my proposal.

Im not trading for Barnes or Ross. It’s just a diversion. My real intent was to acquire that lottery pick while I dont want us to have a setback this season so we get Barnes or Ross in return to play Milton’s role. While yeah, no sane team will just handover their lottery picks without any garbage (bad contract?)

A follow up question I have: are the Kings swapping their 6th overall pick (along with Barnes) for Shake in this scenario? They have Fox, Hield, and Halliburton. Why are they paying so much for Shake?

[stormi]

If you wanted to flip Milton for a better creator, I'd propose a guy like Delon Wright. If you can get Wright and a 2nd rounder for Milton, that's something I'd be interested in pursuing.

That's just bad business.

[dkj5061]

Those guys might be able to provide scoring production and shooting splits, but they can't create. Ross is an assisted scorer. As is Barnes. They're significant downgrades from Milton from a usefulness aspect, IMO. Again, Milton is our second best creator this year, behind Maxey.

Can you define “creator”?

Because if you mean creating shots, I have Embiid by a huge margin (probably a couple of solar system) then Tobi.

Percentage of field goals scored, unassisted. Particularly inside the arc because those are in the teeth of the defense. Guys that are assisted less are better creators, obviously.

1. Maxey - 33.7%
2. Milton - 35.2%
3. Harris - 39.2%
4. Simmons - 39.4%

Barnes at 57.8% and Ross at 52.3% are more in line with ancillary scorers like Seth Curry (59.7%) and Furkan Korkmaz (55.6%).

If you compare the scoring production, those guys are similar to Shake, but Milton is just on another level in terms of value based on his shotcreation.

I don't entirely agree that being assisted less automatically makes you a better creator. Take Tobias for example. He's able to capitalize on advantages better than most of our players. When Tobias receives a pass and has a slight angle on his defender, he's done a really great job of using his strength and quickness to capitalize on that angle and score. Even though it's counting as an assisted bucket, Tobias is still "creating" an opportunity to score that another player might not have.

[Kobblehead]

If you wanted to flip Milton for a better creator, I'd propose a guy like Delon Wright. If you can get Wright and a 2nd rounder for Milton, that's something I'd be interested in pursuing.

That's just bad business.

Not necessarily. Milton without a jumper is a pretty compromised player, due to his pitiful defense.

Wright is a superior creator to Shake, and plays defense at a high level. Based on skillset, alone, Wright blows Shake out of the water. The only question with Delon is his scoring assertiveness and his shooting range.

Besides, getting that 2nd rounder from Detroit along with Wright would account for Shake's youth and contract.

[stormi]

If you wanted to flip Milton for a better creator, I'd propose a guy like Delon Wright. If you can get Wright and a 2nd rounder for Milton, that's something I'd be interested in pursuing.

That's just bad business.

Not necessarily. Milton without a jumper is a pretty compromised player, due to his pitiful defense.

Wright is a superior creator to Shake, and plays defense at a high level. Based on skillset, alone, Wright blows Shake out of the water. The only question with Delon is his scoring assertiveness and his shooting range.

Besides, getting that 2nd rounder from Detroit along with Wright would account for Shake's youth and contract.

Wright was just traded for two seconds, and then cap space last offseason - so you're undervaluing Shake regardless.

But why does it have to be either - or. Or are we only allowed to have one competent ballhandler on this roster at a time.

[Kobblehead]

I don't entirely agree that being assisted less automatically makes you a better creator. Take Tobias for example. He's able to capitalize on advantages better than most of our players. When Tobias receives a pass and has a slight angle on his defender, he's done a really great job of using his strength and quickness to capitalize on that angle and score. Even though it's counting as an assisted bucket, Tobias is still "creating" an opportunity to score that another player might not have.

The numbers are accounting for Harris' improved shotcreating, though. He's getting credit for that.

Harris is a career 49.9% "assisted inside the arc" guy scoring unassisted buckets at a 10% increase over his career average.

[Kobblehead]

But why does it have to be either - or. Or are we only allowed to have one competent ballhandler on this roster at a time.

Just responding to 76iology's idea of using Shake to upgrade shotcreation.

I'm just assuming Milton is more desirable. If they wanted Curry for Wright, I'd do it in a nanosecond. The more creators, the better..

[dkj5061]

I don't entirely agree that being assisted less automatically makes you a better creator. Take Tobias for example. He's able to capitalize on advantages better than most of our players. When Tobias receives a pass and has a slight angle on his defender, he's done a really great job of using his strength and quickness to capitalize on that angle and score. Even though it's counting as an assisted bucket, Tobias is still "creating" an opportunity to score that another player might not have.

The numbers are accounting for Harris' improved shotcreating, though. He's getting credit for that.

Harris is a career 49.9% "assisted inside the arc" guy scoring unassisted buckets at a 10% increase over his career average.

Right, I was more so speaking to your general assertion while using Harris as an example. I just think simply looking at % of assisted buckets and using that as the only determining factor of "who is a better creator" isn't always accurate.

A more general example:
Player A:
4/10 on isolation possessions per game, 4/10 on assisted possessions per game = 16 ppg, 50% assisted

Player B:
5/10 on isolation possessions per game, 6/10 on assisted possessions per game = 22 ppg, 55% assisted

Player B's creation ability shouldn't be punished because he also finishes more of his assisted opportunities.

[the_process]

If you wanted to flip Milton for a better creator, I'd propose a guy like Delon Wright. If you can get Wright and a 2nd rounder for Milton, that's something I'd be interested in pursuing.

DET gets Ferguson, Poirier, Scott, Milton, and NYK 2nd
PHI gets Wright, Jackson, and Ellington

Wright/Curry/Maxey
Green/Thybulle/Ellington
Simmons/Korkmaz/Joe
Harris/Jackson
Embiid/Howard/Bradley