Official Andre Iguodala Trade Discussion and Rumors Thread

Post #1521 » by **Foshan** » Tue May 31, 2011 1:28 am

I don't think it's a problem for jrue to be our primary ball handler, and having an iggy or turner next to him will be a big plus--look at Drose, bet that dude would have given a testicle to have someone else on the roster who could handle and create for others

sixerswillrule · Post #1522 » by **sixerswillrule** » Tue May 31, 2011 2:01 am

Foshan wrote:I don't think it's a problem for jrue to be our primary ball handler, and having an iggy or turner next to him will be a big plus--look at Drose, bet that dude would have given a testicle to have someone else on the roster who could handle and create for others

Exactly. I don't see where people get this idea from that teams should have one guy do all of the ball-handling and playmaking. It doesn't work.

76ciology · Post #1523 » by **76ciology** » Tue May 31, 2011 2:30 am

sixerswillrule wrote:
Foshan wrote:I don't think it's a problem for jrue to be our primary ball handler, and having an iggy or turner next to him will be a big plus--look at Drose, bet that dude would have given a testicle to have someone else on the roster who could handle and create for others

Exactly. I don't see where people get this idea from that teams should have one guy do all of the ball-handling and playmaking. It doesn't work.

That's because D-Rose is more of a scoring PG. There is no one who sets him up. It's a completely different scenario.

The problem is that we have already enough ball handlers and play makers on this team even without Iguodala. Jrue is a facilitator. ET is a facilitator. Iggy is a facilitator. Hawes is a facilitator. If you watched the play-offs, we relied heavily on EB42 and our bench (Thad and Lou) for our scoring. We lack a true scorer in our first unit, that we started Meeks at the SG position to compliment both Iggy and Jrue.

Looking at the teams in the play-offs, most of them don't have two main facilitator/ball handlers on their team. And the most common theme with the successful teams is that they have more scorers than facilitators.

Iggy is a good player. It's just that he's not a good fit with this team, specially with the addition of Turner.

It all comes down to who are you going to trade between ET and Iggy? And I think the management is going to trade Iggy over ET. And I can't blame them for that.

sixerswillrule · Post #1524 » by **sixerswillrule** » Tue May 31, 2011 2:35 am

76ciology wrote:
sixerswillrule wrote:
Foshan wrote:I don't think it's a problem for jrue to be our primary ball handler, and having an iggy or turner next to him will be a big plus--look at Drose, bet that dude would have given a testicle to have someone else on the roster who could handle and create for others

Exactly. I don't see where people get this idea from that teams should have one guy do all of the ball-handling and playmaking. It doesn't work.

That's because D-Rose is more of a scoring PG. There is no one who sets him up. It's a completely different scenario.

I was just speaking in general. Teams need multiple ball-handlers, that was my point.

For what it's worth, though, I do think Holiday, Turner, and Iguodala on the team could potentially work if Williams is traded,

76ciology · Post #1525 » by **76ciology** » Tue May 31, 2011 2:36 am

Sixerscan wrote:
But Turner isn't good. He's 22 years old and didn't even make an all rookie team. Let's trade him now while some team still thinks he has value (As you said, he's cheap). He COULD be good, he could also be out of the league in 3 years. Personally, I don't think it's that bad, but I don't think he'll ever be at Iguodala's level.

76ciology:

How can you believe in a Turner/Holiday backcourt when you don't even think they can make the playoffs two years down the road? It's not like they'll be rookies at that point, Holiday will be a free agent at the end of that season! If they can't make the playoffs with Brand/Young/some hawes-like center/others, then we are screwed. We certainly won't be an attractive free agent destination.

In any event, any plan that involves a starting line up three years down the road that you can't name 60% of the guys in it is probably not the most prudent plan.

I really really think that it's too early to give up on Turner. Even if he's sucky, I don't think that it's a right decision for any sports management to give up on a 2nd overall pick after his rookie year.

With regards to why I think the team would struggle in 2012-2013 is because we don't have a center and an aging/disgruntled EB42. Which I can see us trading him for an expiring and some pick(s).

Sixerlover · Post #1526 » by **Sixerlover** » Tue May 31, 2011 2:37 am

76ciology wrote:
sixerswillrule wrote:
Foshan wrote:I don't think it's a problem for jrue to be our primary ball handler, and having an iggy or turner next to him will be a big plus--look at Drose, bet that dude would have given a testicle to have someone else on the roster who could handle and create for others

Exactly. I don't see where people get this idea from that teams should have one guy do all of the ball-handling and playmaking. It doesn't work.

That's because D-Rose is more of a scoring PG. There is no one who sets him up. It's a completely different scenario.

The problem is that we have already enough ball handlers and play makers on this team even without Iguodala. Jrue is a facilitator. ET is a facilitator. Iggy is a facilitator. Hawes is a facilitator. If you watched the play-offs, we relied heavily on EB42 and our bench (Thad and Lou) for our scoring. We lack a true scorer in our first unit, that we started Meeks at the SG position to compliment both Iggy and Jrue.

Why include Dre if it's without Iguodala.. And Spencer Hawes.. Really?

76ciology · Post #1527 » by **76ciology** » Tue May 31, 2011 2:44 am

Sixerlover wrote:Why include Dre if it's without Iguodala.. And Spencer Hawes.. Really?

Sorry, I meant two different statements. What I was saying is that the team is already OK with it's facilitating duties even without or with Iggy.

And yes, Spencer Hawes is more of a facilitator on offense. We frequently run high post plays for him. And he's a pretty good passer with our back door sets.

SJSF · Post #1528 » by **SJSF** » Wed Jun 1, 2011 1:42 pm

Actually Turner played PG in college or at least was a major ball handler there. So him and Jrue handling the ball will be fine. Et> Iggy handling the ball.

Post #1529 » by **Sixerscan** » Wed Jun 1, 2011 1:53 pm

I hear Craig Brackins played some point on his junior high team. He's probably better at handling the ball than Iguodala as well.

Kobblehead · Post #1530 » by **Kobblehead** » Wed Jun 1, 2011 1:56 pm

I don't even consider Iguodala a ball handler because he can't do anything with the rock. He's more of a ball securer.

SJSF · Post #1531 » by **SJSF** » Wed Jun 1, 2011 1:59 pm

Ellis for Iggy. I think this would be a great deal for us. We would have that scorer we need. And we would spending less money for him compared to Iggy. And Ellis in 2 years will be opting out of his contract to get a new one.

Kobblehead · Post #1532 » by **Kobblehead** » Wed Jun 1, 2011 2:05 pm

Ellis plays big minutes. Which means we would have to play Turner out of position and at a disadvantage at the SF spot.

Ruhiel · Post #1533 » by **Ruhiel** » Wed Jun 1, 2011 2:33 pm

"ball securer"

Kobblehead · Post #1534 » by **Kobblehead** » Wed Jun 1, 2011 2:44 pm

It's true. Andre's isolation skills are nonexistent due largely to his average handle/ball skills. He's no ball handler, he's a ball securer.

Do we hand him the ball and say "Andre, go make a play" or "Andre, don't make a mistake"? :wink:

Kobblehead · Post #1535 » by **Kobblehead** » Wed Jun 1, 2011 2:51 pm

On second thought, I wouldn't even call him a ball securer because he's had his issues with turnovers in the past. I would call Andre a "ball stabilizer" more than anything.

Mahorn at the 4 · Post #1536 » by **Mahorn at the 4** » Wed Jun 1, 2011 3:34 pm

An Iguodala / Ellis deal seems to be too easy. They each fit a strong need for their prospective new teams.

GS will be more likely to make moves now that West is there. He is a very good personnel guy and he is a fresh perspective.

One question: will Biedrins be part of this deal? Fans on this and other 6er boards say GS won't deal him. The GS boards would love to get rid of him. The postseason team reports claim they are looking for a replacement.

Ellis and Biedrins fill 2 holes for the 6ers: a defensive big and a scorer. Biedrins is still young (25 yrs old) and a change of scenery may be what he needs.

Ellis / Biedrins for Iguodala, Speights, Nocioni? The trade works salary-wise.

Post #1537 » by **Sixerscan** » Wed Jun 1, 2011 3:45 pm

One of 10 guys in the league to have better than 3:1 A/TO. Only guy over 6'4". Ditto of the 15 guys over 2.75:1.

Paul, Calderon, Kidd, Rondo, Nash, Augustin, Fisher, Lowry, Maynor, Iguodala, Conley, Williams, Miller, Felton, Lawson.

15 "ball stabilizers"

He's also the only person over 6'4" to average 6+ APG besides that Lebron guy.

Post #1538 » by **Sixerscan** » Wed Jun 1, 2011 3:51 pm

RE: Ellis

Golden State is trading him because he can't play shooting guard. Him and Holiday in the same backcourt would be swiss cheese.

Anyway, Ellis dominates the ball more than Iguodala. (His usage rate was 7 points higher than iguodala's this year)

If you are going to trade Iguodala for another high salary guard, at least do it for a shooter instead of a volume scorer like Ellis.

Kobblehead · Post #1539 » by **Kobblehead** » Wed Jun 1, 2011 5:14 pm

Sixerscan wrote:One of 10 guys in the league to have better than 3:1 A/TO. Only guy over 6'4". Ditto of the 15 guys over 2.75:1.

Paul, Calderon, Kidd, Rondo, Nash, Augustin, Fisher, Lowry, Maynor, Iguodala, Conley, Williams, Miller, Felton, Lawson.

15 "ball stabilizers"

He's also the only person over 6'4" to average 6+ APG besides that Lebron guy.

Which goes to show you how good of a decision maker he is because he doesn't have the ball skills of any of those guys. I feel as if you're not getting this.

Skates · Post #1540 » by **Skates** » Wed Jun 1, 2011 9:18 pm

Iggy is an excellent ballhandler. He lacks a power dribble or a potent cross-over which renders his isolation game pretty lacking despite his athleticism, and of course his lack of a jump shot doesn't help. His handle on hte perimeter is very good for a non-PG and his passing is more than decision making, it is about instinctive passing skills like seeing the open man, the proper angle, etc that mark high assist guys. The decision making part is what reduces his TO's. He is essentially a perimeter ball handler, not a penetrating one.

Some guys are great at breaking down thier own player with the dribble, but can't create worth a darn. Others like Iggy are the opposite. Guys like Chris Paul and LeBron (for a non-PG) can do both, hence why they are superstars.

I look at Ellis on the trade machine every once in a while and I get very hyped up about him, then reality sets in. He is Allen Iverson without the playmaking ability. A ball hog, unable to play PG and unable to defend any position. His team plays far better without him on the court and his numbers are a bit inflated from playing in the GS system. In short he is the little man's Al Jefferson, a statistical marvel in some ways, but the opposite of a winning basketball player. BTW, if Jerry West wants iggy and doesn't want Ellis, that should tell you something right there.

Biedrins is no longer even worthy of being a starting C. GS fans are constantly clamoring for a solid defensive center for a reason. He is not strong enough to defend big guys on the block, has no appreciable offensive skills and his injuries are already zapping his energy game.

From GS I like Dorrell Wright, a real bargain on his contract and a better fit as a long, athletic, sweet shooting SF for the Sixers, more than I like Ellis. With Wright you can play Turner next to Holiday and have a team with good size at the 1,2 and 3. With Ellis you end up way undersized at the 2 and Turner being slightly undersized at the 3.