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2016 NBA Draft/College Basketball Thread

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Re: 2016 NBA Draft/College Basketball Thread 

Post#1521 » by Unbreakable99 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:01 pm

Ericb5 wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:No chance. I've loved Dunn going on two years now and think he's going to be an excellent starter in this league, but Simmons is a perennial contender quality building block. Forwards that play both ends of the floor and distribute are unicorns.

Ingram isn't even in the discussion. He's all tools and potential, at this point. He has not had a great freshman year. He's in that Wiggins category right now.


I agree that Ingram is in the Wiggins tier of prospects. Both of them are guys that have oodles of potential, but(as freshmen) were still behind in production.

They are both very worthy top 3 picks though in pretty much any draft. Guys like Durant that dominate college from the start are REALLY rare.


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I like Ingram better than Wiggins because he doesn't disappear a lot like Wiggins did. Ingram might have an off game but it's not from disappearing and not being involved.
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Re: 2016 NBA Draft/College Basketball Thread 

Post#1522 » by Kobblehead » Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:05 pm

Dell wrote:Brandon Ingram HAS had a great freshman season


To the untrained eye. We deal with a little bit of a larger scope in this thread. Ingram has underachieved. End of story.
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Re: 2016 NBA Draft/College Basketball Thread 

Post#1523 » by Negrodamus » Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:35 pm

Kobblehead wrote:No chance. I've loved Dunn going on two years now and think he's going to be an excellent starter in this league, but Simmons is a perennial contender quality building block. Forwards that play both ends of the floor and distribute are unicorns.

Ingram isn't even in the discussion. He's all tools and potential, at this point. He has not had a great freshman year. He's in that Wiggins category right now.


I mean sure, I would definitely choose Russell Westbrook over Michael Beasley 10/10 times. Who would ever make that mistake?

(note: I'm not saying Simmons will be Beasley, but "no chance" is a silly thing to say when talking about prospects).
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Re: 2016 NBA Draft/College Basketball Thread 

Post#1524 » by Negrodamus » Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:43 pm

Additionally, what position are we playing Simmons? I hope it's SF because I'm not sure how he will defend NBA PFs with his Julius Randle-esque wingspan. And it's great that his vision is elite, because that "bullyball" offense might fly in the SEC but will get tossed in the NBA.
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Re: 2016 NBA Draft/College Basketball Thread 

Post#1525 » by Dell » Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:49 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
Dell wrote:Brandon Ingram HAS had a great freshman season


To the untrained eye. We deal with a little bit of a larger scope in this thread. Ingram has underachieved. End of story.


Saying "end of story" is convincing and all, but... What are you basing that statement on?

This article from Liberty Ballers breaks them down far deeper than I want to right now and gives Ingram head to head vs. Durant.

http://www.libertyballers.com/2016/1/11/10748668/brandon-ingram-nba-draft-good

Ingram is 5th in the ACC in scoring as a freshman while shooting over 40% from 3 on over 5 attempts a game.

Would it be great if he were a little stronger? Sure, but he's not even 18 1/2 years old yet.

It's one thing to say he's not meeting your expectations (I can only imagine you thought he would average 30/15/5 or something like that), but to say he's under-performing is absurd. Oh my god, he struggled against Louisville!!! The sky is falling, the sky is falling! There is simply no metric upon which you can justify saying that he's under-performed.

End of story.
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Re: 2016 NBA Draft/College Basketball Thread 

Post#1526 » by Agnostifarian » Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:58 pm

If Simmons can only shoot with his right hand within eight feet of the basket, he's **** in the NBA. This is not something to gloss over. Other than grabbing a defensive rebound and pushing the ball, how is he going to be used? I feel much better about Saric's game.
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Re: 2016 NBA Draft/College Basketball Thread 

Post#1527 » by Kolkmania » Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:49 am

Agnostifarian wrote:If Simmons can only shoot with his right hand within eight feet of the basket, he's **** in the NBA. This is not something to gloss over. Other than grabbing a defensive rebound and pushing the ball, how is he going to be used? I feel much better about Saric's game.


And what is Saric's game? I really think he is a nice back-up stretch 4/5, but he's not going to handle the ball like some of us here expect. I personally love the intensity of Saric and if he continues to improve on his outside shooting he will become a valuable player, but I feel his impact is going to be overestimated on this board.
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Re: 2016 NBA Draft/College Basketball Thread 

Post#1528 » by Agnostifarian » Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:19 pm

Kolkmania wrote:
Agnostifarian wrote:If Simmons can only shoot with his right hand within eight feet of the basket, he's **** in the NBA. This is not something to gloss over. Other than grabbing a defensive rebound and pushing the ball, how is he going to be used? I feel much better about Saric's game.


And what is Saric's game? I really think he is a nice back-up stretch 4/5, but he's not going to handle the ball like some of us here expect. I personally love the intensity of Saric and if he continues to improve on his outside shooting he will become a valuable player, but I feel his impact is going to be overestimated on this board.


I have only seen Saric highlights and never watched a full game so I am not comfortable making an in depth analysis on his game. Further, I also suspect that some posters here are over estimating Saric's upside. However, Saric's reputation is that he is a solid rebounder with very good handles and excellent passing. He has also developed a jump shot even out to the 3 pt line. He is universally praised as playing with a high basketball IQ and outstanding hustle. Saric has also been playing with professionals for years and has not been coddled and hidden to protect his weaknesses. No doubt in my mind that Saric enters the NBA as a more productive player than Simmons in 2017. Simmons is more athletic than Saric but Simmons is untested as a defensive player. Neither player protects the rim.

From Kevin O'Conner's article previously posted by Sanford:

Simmons has attempted 265 non-jumpers so far this year. Despite being a left-handed shooter, only 10 of his non-jumpers were released with his left hand, 39 were with both hands, and 216 were with his right hand.


That equates to 96.2% of Simmons non jumpers are right handed.

Another fact from the article:

But Simmons still shoots left-handed jumpers. He's hit just 12 of his 35 jump shots, and often appears reluctant to pull the trigger even when defenses dare him to do so.

That equates to 34.3% on mid range jump shots. Simmons has only taken three 3 pt shots all year making one. SIMMONS CAN'T POSSIBLY BE A STRETCH FOUR!!

Now, before anyone barks out, "Yeah, but why should Ben shoot jumpers when he so easily dominates in the paint?" Let's consider LSU's results. Has Simmons elevated his team's play? LSU is not expected to be one of the top 65 teams in Division I. No Tournament appearance. Blakeney, Hornsby and Victor are not scrubs. For all of Ben Simmons' talent handling the ball and distributing, his team is not good.

The 76ers have sucked for three years, at least. We don't have three more years to experiment with fitting another non shooting player into our rotation. I'm damn sure Saric will be more productive for us over the next few years than Ben Simmons. I would love a stretch 4 that is ready to play.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2016/2/16/10966798/ben-simmons-nba-draft-scouting-report-jump-shot
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Re: 2016 NBA Draft/College Basketball Thread 

Post#1529 » by PhilasFinest » Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:29 pm

Im starting to board the Jamal Murray train.
Not putting him ahead of Simmons or even Ingram, but he's fully entrenched as my #3 prospect for us, and will certainly ease my pain of losing the lottery again to LA or Boston.

He may have some developing to do in certain areas (what 18 year old doesn't) but the kid can flat out score the ball, and in a variety of ways.Having a guard who can score and shoot from anywhere on the floor, get hot and carry a team on offense for stretches is a huge asset.Murray has that type of knack and could develop into a lethal scorer and would compliment any of Okafor/Embiid/Noel.

Not to mention the level of success Kentucky guards have had in the NBA.Archie Goodwin,Eric Bledsoe,Brandon Knight,Devin Booker have all had success in the NBA despite underperforming to an extent at UK. People don't realize how much these kids sacrifice individually playing on a team loaded with blue chip prospects.



I don't see any reason why he can't do what CJ McCollum is doing this year, and if you consider the fact that he turns 19 tomorrow, the kids got a ton of room for growth.
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Re: 2016 NBA Draft/College Basketball Thread 

Post#1530 » by Skates » Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:17 pm

I would love to get Simmons or Ingram this year, their talent is obvious, though Ingram will take a few years to develop, and Simmons' skills and weaknesses are ones you simply build around because he is that good.

But...

If we don't get those guys and even if we do, this looks like the year to really fatten up the roster with skilled guys that have a few years of college or international experience, or to move picks for young vets to start filling out the team in a way that compliments guys like Okafor and Embiid. I really believe in Saric's game and can't wait to see him play, to say nothing of my hopes and prayers for Joel to stay healthy, but this draft is fairly deep in the middle with guys who can score the ball from the perimeter either with a drive or a jumpshot, and shot creators. They aren't generally franchise level guys, but the kind you can slot in around a couple, or four in our case, big guys with big time talent, and make the team into a team. Guys who can make you pay for doubling Okafor, guys who hit their open threes and some that aren't so open, guys who can drive the ball and dish or score.

The other strength of this draft is defensive minded, rebounding big men. So if we end up with the third pick, fourth pick, or both if the Laker's pick comes over, I won't lose my mind and will hopefully watch us pick up some guys from the wing/pg group, or if we move a big for a proven perimeter player, then pick up a nice, tough role playing big to replace them in the rotation. It really is a high end role player draft, not a lot of stars, but a lot of guys that can have very productive 10-12 year NBA careers and be really nice pieces to add to our current core.

The one guy I don't want to pick is Bender, not unless it is part of an immediate trade for current and future assets.
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Re: 2016 NBA Draft/College Basketball Thread 

Post#1531 » by Agnostifarian » Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:25 pm

PhilasFinest wrote:Im starting to board the Jamal Murray train.
Not putting him ahead of Simmons or even Ingram, but he's fully entrenched as my #3 prospect for us, and will certainly ease my pain of losing the lottery again to LA or Boston.

He may have some developing to do in certain areas (what 18 year old doesn't) but the kid can flat out score the ball, and in a variety of ways.Having a guard who can score and shoot from anywhere on the floor, get hot and carry a team on offense for stretches is a huge asset.Murray has that type of knack and could develop into a lethal scorer and would compliment any of Okafor/Embiid/Noel.

Not to mention the level of success Kentucky guards have had in the NBA.Archie Goodwin,Eric Bledsoe,Brandon Knight,Devin Booker have all had success in the NBA despite underperforming to an extent at UK. People don't realize how much these kids sacrifice individually playing on a team loaded with blue chip prospects.



I don't see any reason why he can't do what CJ McCollum is doing this year, and if you consider the fact that he turns 19 tomorrow, the kids got a ton of room for growth.


I agree 100%. I love the way he uses screens! We have plenty of big guys now. We need to load up on scorers. Ingram, Murray, Heild, Valentine, Allen... These are what we need the most!
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Re: 2016 NBA Draft/College Basketball Thread 

Post#1532 » by Negrodamus » Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:52 pm

Agnostifarian wrote:
PhilasFinest wrote:Im starting to board the Jamal Murray train.
Not putting him ahead of Simmons or even Ingram, but he's fully entrenched as my #3 prospect for us, and will certainly ease my pain of losing the lottery again to LA or Boston.

He may have some developing to do in certain areas (what 18 year old doesn't) but the kid can flat out score the ball, and in a variety of ways.Having a guard who can score and shoot from anywhere on the floor, get hot and carry a team on offense for stretches is a huge asset.Murray has that type of knack and could develop into a lethal scorer and would compliment any of Okafor/Embiid/Noel.

Not to mention the level of success Kentucky guards have had in the NBA.Archie Goodwin,Eric Bledsoe,Brandon Knight,Devin Booker have all had success in the NBA despite underperforming to an extent at UK. People don't realize how much these kids sacrifice individually playing on a team loaded with blue chip prospects.



I don't see any reason why he can't do what CJ McCollum is doing this year, and if you consider the fact that he turns 19 tomorrow, the kids got a ton of room for growth.


I agree 100%. I love the way he uses screens! We have plenty of big guys now. We need to load up on scorers. Ingram, Murray, Heild, Valentine, Allen... These are what we need the most!


He really does use screens at an elite level. He reminds me a little of Rip Hamilton when he was on the Pistons.
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Re: 2016 NBA Draft/College Basketball Thread 

Post#1533 » by Skates » Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:15 pm

Agnostifarian wrote:
PhilasFinest wrote:Im starting to board the Jamal Murray train.
Not putting him ahead of Simmons or even Ingram, but he's fully entrenched as my #3 prospect for us, and will certainly ease my pain of losing the lottery again to LA or Boston.

He may have some developing to do in certain areas (what 18 year old doesn't) but the kid can flat out score the ball, and in a variety of ways.Having a guard who can score and shoot from anywhere on the floor, get hot and carry a team on offense for stretches is a huge asset.Murray has that type of knack and could develop into a lethal scorer and would compliment any of Okafor/Embiid/Noel.

Not to mention the level of success Kentucky guards have had in the NBA.Archie Goodwin,Eric Bledsoe,Brandon Knight,Devin Booker have all had success in the NBA despite underperforming to an extent at UK. People don't realize how much these kids sacrifice individually playing on a team loaded with blue chip prospects.



I don't see any reason why he can't do what CJ McCollum is doing this year, and if you consider the fact that he turns 19 tomorrow, the kids got a ton of room for growth.


I agree 100%. I love the way he uses screens! We have plenty of big guys now. We need to load up on scorers. Ingram, Murray, Heild, Valentine, Allen... These are what we need the most!


With our big guys all pretty skilled passers and especially with Saric coming over as basically a point forward, I also like the shooting PG's in this class like Demetrius Jackson and Wade Baldwin, plus the guys you mentioned. They are a little bit combo-guardish, but I would rather have that than another PG who can't shoot.
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Re: 2016 NBA Draft/College Basketball Thread 

Post#1534 » by PhilasFinest » Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:16 pm

Agnostifarian wrote:
PhilasFinest wrote:Im starting to board the Jamal Murray train.
Not putting him ahead of Simmons or even Ingram, but he's fully entrenched as my #3 prospect for us, and will certainly ease my pain of losing the lottery again to LA or Boston.

He may have some developing to do in certain areas (what 18 year old doesn't) but the kid can flat out score the ball, and in a variety of ways.Having a guard who can score and shoot from anywhere on the floor, get hot and carry a team on offense for stretches is a huge asset.Murray has that type of knack and could develop into a lethal scorer and would compliment any of Okafor/Embiid/Noel.

Not to mention the level of success Kentucky guards have had in the NBA.Archie Goodwin,Eric Bledsoe,Brandon Knight,Devin Booker have all had success in the NBA despite underperforming to an extent at UK. People don't realize how much these kids sacrifice individually playing on a team loaded with blue chip prospects.



I don't see any reason why he can't do what CJ McCollum is doing this year, and if you consider the fact that he turns 19 tomorrow, the kids got a ton of room for growth.


I agree 100%. I love the way he uses screens! We have plenty of big guys now. We need to load up on scorers. Ingram, Murray, Heild, Valentine, Allen... These are what we need the most!


I love Valentine. He's tailor made for a Spurs/Hawks/Warriors system. If we are trying to play anything like them, he should be a priority target with a 2nd pick in the draft. Id probably trade both OKC/MIA pick to land him.
SparksFly87 wrote:Towns got boat feet and gets off the ground very slow with a lack of explosiveness . He is a rich mans Henry Sims to me. No thanks .
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Re: 2016 NBA Draft/College Basketball Thread 

Post#1535 » by PhilasFinest » Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:26 pm

Wade Baldwin kinda has a Jordan Clarkson like game. Not quite as big, but is long (6'10 wingspan) and has a pretty smooth shot.
SparksFly87 wrote:Towns got boat feet and gets off the ground very slow with a lack of explosiveness . He is a rich mans Henry Sims to me. No thanks .
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Re: 2016 NBA Draft/College Basketball Thread 

Post#1536 » by Kolkmania » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:42 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
Agnostifarian wrote:
PhilasFinest wrote:Im starting to board the Jamal Murray train.
Not putting him ahead of Simmons or even Ingram, but he's fully entrenched as my #3 prospect for us, and will certainly ease my pain of losing the lottery again to LA or Boston.

He may have some developing to do in certain areas (what 18 year old doesn't) but the kid can flat out score the ball, and in a variety of ways.Having a guard who can score and shoot from anywhere on the floor, get hot and carry a team on offense for stretches is a huge asset.Murray has that type of knack and could develop into a lethal scorer and would compliment any of Okafor/Embiid/Noel.

Not to mention the level of success Kentucky guards have had in the NBA.Archie Goodwin,Eric Bledsoe,Brandon Knight,Devin Booker have all had success in the NBA despite underperforming to an extent at UK. People don't realize how much these kids sacrifice individually playing on a team loaded with blue chip prospects.



I don't see any reason why he can't do what CJ McCollum is doing this year, and if you consider the fact that he turns 19 tomorrow, the kids got a ton of room for growth.


I agree 100%. I love the way he uses screens! We have plenty of big guys now. We need to load up on scorers. Ingram, Murray, Heild, Valentine, Allen... These are what we need the most!


He really does use screens at an elite level. He reminds me a little of Rip Hamilton when he was on the Pistons.


Such a shame that I haven't seen 5 decent screens since Aldermir left (let alone off ball). :lol:

But I agree. Perhaps not the best off the dribble scorer, but he really can catch and shoot. Jaylen Brown is playing some great basketball the last month or so as well, his athleticism with that strength is intriguing. Poor fit for the Sixers though.
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Re: 2016 NBA Draft/College Basketball Thread 

Post#1537 » by Negrodamus » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:24 am

Kolkmania wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
Agnostifarian wrote:
I agree 100%. I love the way he uses screens! We have plenty of big guys now. We need to load up on scorers. Ingram, Murray, Heild, Valentine, Allen... These are what we need the most!


He really does use screens at an elite level. He reminds me a little of Rip Hamilton when he was on the Pistons.


Such a shame that I haven't seen 5 decent screens since Aldermir left (let alone off ball). :lol:

But I agree. Perhaps not the best off the dribble scorer, but he really can catch and shoot. Jaylen Brown is playing some great basketball the last month or so as well, his athleticism with that strength is intriguing. Poor fit for the Sixers though.


I honestly don't think he's that bad at scoring off the dribble. He's much better at it than D'Angelo Russell in my opinion.
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Re: 2016 NBA Draft/College Basketball Thread 

Post#1538 » by No-Man » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:01 am

If you draft Simmons you gotta trade Jahlil, if you get Ingram, I'd say try to get strong defenders with the other two picks as well, and move Noel for the best available, if Boston gives you another pick and Smart, go for it.
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Re: 2016 NBA Draft/College Basketball Thread 

Post#1539 » by Ericb5 » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:14 am

Fischella wrote:If you draft Simmons you gotta trade Jahlil, if you get Ingram, I'd say try to get strong defenders with the other two picks as well, and move Noel for the best available, if Boston gives you another pick and Smart, go for it.


I agree with you that drafting Simmons makes Okafor more likely to be traded, but we could try it for a year and see how it goes.


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Re: 2016 NBA Draft/College Basketball Thread 

Post#1540 » by NJ SixerFan » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:27 pm

Keep jah, draft Ingram, trade for parker, hire coach k.

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