Be The GM: Team Summaries, sim time- TGO?

[KrazySixersD]

loving that my team was tied for 2nd overall by sixerfans rankings

we can still do that style... take the top 16... seed them.. then have a vote for the matchups from there on out

any sims finished yet?

[tk76]

I have the results from Jordan Sams (Libertyballers.com). I am asking for some clarification on his scoring since he has a wider range of scores than most, and I'll let you know what he says.

[83SixersRocked]

As far as my voting, I reluctantly had to pull out. I was using every spare moment (about an hour a team) and ran out of moments. You guys worked hard on your teams and I didn't want to rush it; it would have done you guys a disservice. If I had had a week off from work, that's what it would have taken me. I got 1/3 of the way through.

I'm not saying this is the best way to do it, but just to share thought process: As far as a system, eventually I started off grading the starters. 5 pts for 'A', 4 for 'B', etc. Which amounted to 'can a team with this guy win a championship'. As we've seen, you can throw a 'big three' together and they do very well. The complementary players filled out the other 5 pts. Maybe it should have been 10. As a result, there weren't many 'stinkers'. One or two teams finished with 28 or so, most in the 30s (many ties). Most of my votes other than top 5 were in line with the other judges. The highest my 'top' team finished with the others was between 7-10.

'Some' points taken off for guys playing too many minutes (I saw some guys with 20 mpg being pushed into 35-40 mpg roles). Ironically the same team I'm thinking of got the highest grade for '5 years later'. Some up and coming guys were dropped to 10 mpg on their teams.

Anyway, just wanted to say 'something' rather than just PMing the mods. You guys did excellent jobs.

[ZarcMumoff]

loving that my team was tied for 2nd overall by sixerfans rankings

we can still do that style... take the top 16... seed them.. then have a vote for the matchups from there on out

any sims finished yet?

Ugh. How many times are you going to ask that? READ THE THREAD!!!!! IT'S ONLY A PAGE OR TWO BACK!!!!

[ZarcMumoff]

We'll give the judges until tonight around 8:00 PM. Then we'll have our polls for the playoffs over the next few days, and then the simming.

[The Sixer Fixer]

Who are we still waiting on...just Derek at this point?

[tk76]

I believe so.

[tk76]

PK5, given the variation in scoring, we should combine the judges score by averaging out the rankings (1st-30th) instead of just summing up the scores..

Meaning if you came in 7th, 9th, 5th(tied) and 14th place from 4 judges, your ranking would be:
(7+9+5+14)/4= 8.75

This makes more sense then just averaging out the scores, because if only take the scores then the judges who used a wider scoring range would count more than the judges who rated the teams in a tighter range.

Not sure I am explaining this well. But for example Jordan had some teams as low as 3 and other teams in the 40's. While Tom's teams were more tightly packed between 20-40. If we simply added average scores then Jordan's scores would effect the overall score more than Tom's. But if we combine the results looking at rank instead of total score then each judge will count equally.

[ZarcMumoff]

PK5, given the variation in scoring, we should combine the judges score by averaging out the rankings (1st-30th) instead of just summing up the scores..

Meaning if you came in 7th, 9th, 5th(tied) and 14th place from 4 judges, your ranking would be:
(7+9+5+14)/4= 8.75

This makes more sense then just averaging out the scores, because if only take the scores then the judges who used a wider scoring range would count more than the judges who rated the teams in a tighter range.

Not sure I am explaining this well. But for example Jordan had some teams as low as 3 and other teams in the 40's. While Tom's teams were more tightly packed between 20-40. If we simply added average scores then Jordan's scores would effect the overall score more than Tom's. But if we combine the results looking at rank instead of total score then each judge will count equally.

Yeah, we can do that. But we are only doing the ranking from the championship score...because the voting will just be us voting on who would win in the playoffs. That's why it's Top 8 from each conference.

[Kobblehead]

I think the judging system is too simple and it's too influenced by initial impressions. We all spent alot of time drafting players to fit specific gameplan that we might have not been able to articulate through our writeup. And I'm not sure the judges looked all that closely at each team (not their fault, there's alot on their plate). I think this should be judged almost like an RPG video game for optimum justification. For instance...

Low post offense:
High post offense:
Pick and roll:
Ball movement:
Ball Security:
Three point scoring:
Fast break offense:
Isolation:

Each offensive category judged out of 5 points. A total of 40 possible points for the offensive side of the ball.

[ZarcMumoff]

I think the judging system is too simple and it's too influenced by initial impressions. We all spent alot of time drafting players to fit specific gameplan that we might have not been able to articulate through our writeup. And I'm not sure the judges looked all that closely at each team (not their fault, there's alot on their plate). I think this should be judged almost like an RPG video game for optimum justification. For instance...

Low post offense:
High post offense:
Pick and roll:
Ball movement:
Ball Security:
Three point scoring:
Fast break offense:
Isolation:

Each offensive category judged out of 5 points. A total of 40 possible points for the offensive side of the ball.

Like I said, I'm definitely open to changing the judging system next time. Not saying we are definitely doing this, but it's a good idea.

[Kobblehead]

As a matter of fact, let me finish brainstorming my template and I'll do a judging example between two teams.

[tk76]

I think parsing the scores is a good idea. But I also don't think you can judge how good overall a team is by multiple sub-scores like that. I think teams win titles primarily based on having high level talent. You can have a really balanced team that ticks all of the boxes but still gets beat by the Heat in 5 games.

Not saying that mismatched talent always beats a solid, well constructed team without superstars. But most of the time it does. Also, when you have scores like that it sometimes puts too much weight on lesser, bench players.

[Kobblehead]

See I think the scale would do a decent job at weighing talent in comparance to the more well-constructed teams.

This is somewhat how the Heat would round out on offense.

Low post offense: 0
High post offense: 4
Pick and roll: 5
Ball movement: 3
Ball Security: 2
Three point scoring: 3
Fast break offense: 5
Isolation: 5

And their defensive score would be off the charts. So even though the Heat isn't the best constructed team, their talent still represents through the chart. Particularly in the isolation category. Teams without a superstar will have significantly lower grade in this category.

And in terms of the scale putting weight on the bench players, the judges can be instructed to focus on the primary 9 or so rotation players. Only the ones that were allocated enough minutes to be considered. Someone like Eddie House being pegged 6-8 minutes obviously wouldn't influence a teams three point shooting score.

[The Sixer Fixer]

What if we are judges. Make all 30 people rank the teams (excludng their own team since people will be biased). So each person will do a 1-29 rank of best to worst and then we can average all the scores.

Any time you use individuals to rank this stuff you will deal with player bias. At least with 30 people doing the rankings that will even out some.

[ZarcMumoff]

What if we are judges. Make all 30 people rank the teams (excludng their own team since people will be biased). So each person will do a 1-29 rank of best to worst and then we can average all the scores.

Any time you use individuals to rank this stuff you will deal with player bias. At least with 30 people doing the rankings that will even out some.

Anyway we do it, there will be bias. Whether against the poster or a player.

[Kobblehead]

And my scaling system would be for the regular season. Once the playoffs start, we can team vs. team voting by the other gms. And having the scale can just make that easier and more accurate. A team with a 5 low post offense going up against a team with a 2 post defense could be a deciding factor. Or a team with 5 isolation and 5 pick and roll going up against a team with a 5 perimeter defense and a 5 helpside defense could negate their biggest strength.

[tk76]

I'm fine with whatever people want to do. This is about making it interesting more than finding the most accurate way of scoring- which probably is an impossible goal anyway.

I like the sub-scores because they give us more feedback on our teams. But I would be just as happy with short write-up like Brian provided. Our goal should be to get as much info as possible without asking for too much work from the judges. And since we are all more invested, maybe it does make sense to have us be judges.

[Kobblehead]

Low post offense
High post offense
Offensive rebounding
Pick and roll
Ball movement
Ball Security
Three point scoring
Fast break offense
Isolation
Clutch

Post defense
Shotblocking
Perimeter defense
Helpside defense
Defensive rebounding
Forcing turnovers

Talented youth
Veteran leadership
Compatibility
Character

Okay, I have 20 total categories covering basically every aspect of the game. 10 offensive, 6 defensive, and 4 intangibles for a total of 100 possible points per team. Most playoff teams should be in the 58-65 range. Nobody will be in the 80's or 90's. It's just not possible with strict and objective scoring.

[Kobblehead]

2011 Miami Heat example

Low post offense: 0
High post offense: 4
Offensive rebounding: 1
Pick and roll: 5
Ball movement: 3
Ball Security: 2
Three point scoring: 3
Fast break offense: 5
Isolation: 5
Clutch: 2

Post defense: 4
Shotblocking: 4
Perimeter defense: 5
Helpside defense: 4
Defensive rebounding: 5
Forcing turnovers: 3

Talented youth: 0
Veteran leadership: 4
Compatibility: 3
Character: 3

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