ImageImageImage

Celtics fans seem to favor Noel

Moderators: BullyKing, HartfordWhalers, sixers hoops, Foshan, Sixerscan

Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 33,946
And1: 16,327
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel 

Post#161 » by Sixerscan » Wed Jan 4, 2017 6:40 pm

CoreyGallagher wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:His scoring hasn't regressed as much as his usage has regressed, which is something people thought would happen as the team improved.

I thought and had hoped that his scoring towards the end of last season was more indicative of the scorer that he was.

Oct/Nov - 49.3 TS%
Dec - 49.6 TS%
Jan - 60.2 TS%
Feb - 59.7 TS%

I'm now under the assumption that Ish was more responsible for that uptick (similarly to Noel his rookie and sophomore season). During those latter months he was second in the league in scoring inside to 'dunking' Deandre Jordan and was even shooting well from closer-mid range.


Or it was partially a random hot streak and it was a mistake to ascribe too much confidence to a small sample size, again as was brought up all summer.
CoreyGallagher
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 20,137
And1: 12,928
Joined: Feb 02, 2012
Contact:

Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel 

Post#162 » by CoreyGallagher » Wed Jan 4, 2017 6:41 pm

Could have been, but also would be quite coincidental given when we acquired Ish and the affect he seemed to have on Noel as well, both seasons.

EDIT: Regardless, perhaps he didn't necessarily regress as much as he isn't the scorer that I hoped he was given that stretch - whatever the cause may have been for it.
CoreyGallagher wrote:I hope the Cavs don't take Embiid because then we'll take Embiid.
Ericb5
RealGM
Posts: 10,303
And1: 3,377
Joined: Jan 08, 2014
       

Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel 

Post#163 » by Ericb5 » Wed Jan 4, 2017 6:42 pm

Sixerscan wrote:His scoring hasn't regressed as much as his usage has regressed, which is something people thought would happen as the team improved. Among the many okafor projection mistakes people made last summer, one of the biggest ones was the assumption that okafor would get to play with better teammates without having to sacrifice any possessions to those better teammates.


I don't think that he has regressed either. He is just behind a much better player.

As has been the case with Noel and Okafor since the point when Embiid was drafted, if they can't play a legitimate amount of time at the 4 then they have no future on the sixers, unless they are only going to be 15 minutes a game back ups.

I think that BOTH players are better than 15 mpg backups, and therefore can only survive on the Sixers if they can play with Embiid.

That was my calculus at least between when Embiid and Simmons were drafted. Once Simmons was drafted then it became even LESS likely for them to survive on the Sixers because now there were TWO franchise talents that need to be complimented, and Simmons is likely to play a lot at the 4.

So the most likely outcome of this situation long term is that they will BOTH need to be traded. The problem is that Noel's contract forces us to decide what to do quickly. For the longest while I was more optimistic about Okafor than Noel, but I have since changed my mind, at it isn't because of disappointment with Okafor, or strong play from Noel. It is because the only center on the team that REALLY matters, seems to be inhibited by Okafor on offense, and defense, and that sort of crosses Okafor off of the list for me.

If Noel does the same thing then he will be crossed off the list as well.
Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 33,946
And1: 16,327
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel 

Post#164 » by Sixerscan » Wed Jan 4, 2017 6:44 pm

I don't think Noel's contract really forces anything because of how clean our cap sheet is otherwise so long as half the team is on rookie deals. An extension for okafor might actually be more burdensome (because it will more directly overlap with extensions for Simmons, Saric and the 2017 guys)
eagereyez
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,991
And1: 4,462
Joined: May 05, 2012
   

Re: RE: Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel 

Post#165 » by eagereyez » Wed Jan 4, 2017 7:53 pm

LloydFree wrote:
jbent87 wrote:let's not go having a RT Armageddon on ourselves over Okafor/Nerlens stuff just yet. We're better than that.


We can't have a RT Armageddon regarding the Okafor vs Noel issue. Nearly all of the 'Prokafors' are in hiding, and have stopped posting.

You are triggering a massive amount of people here lol. Best to just let it slide.

Sent from my SM-G900T using RealGM mobile app
tk76
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 9,615
And1: 734
Joined: Jul 21, 2006

Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel 

Post#166 » by tk76 » Wed Jan 4, 2017 9:29 pm

Don't underestimate how reliant most bigs are on PG's creating good looks for them. Look at Noel's career numbers with and without Ish.

Hopefully Simmons helps.
rzzzzz
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,680
And1: 1,759
Joined: Feb 21, 2015
 

Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel 

Post#167 » by rzzzzz » Thu Jan 5, 2017 11:13 pm

Ericb5 wrote:the only center on the team that REALLY matters, seems to be inhibited by Okafor on offense, and defense, and that sort of crosses Okafor off of the list for me.

If Noel does the same thing then he will be crossed off the list as well.


JoJo and OK4 went into the season optimistic, and Noel wanted out in the worst way. now they finally all got on the floor: OK4 don't fit, and Noel still got a real chance. but just that. if he and JoJo don't dominate, we got plenty prospects at pf, and Holmes can back up center. so all apologies to everyone who said we gotta deal either or both early on. i ain't sure we still don't make out better situationally at the deadline. it was worth playing these guys before ditching them.
Winejk
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,511
And1: 446
Joined: Jun 28, 2010

Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel 

Post#168 » by Winejk » Fri Jan 6, 2017 12:25 am

It is too bad that we haven't been able to see any of our bigs with Ben Simmons playing. While I'm not against trading one or two of the bigs at trade deadline, it sure would be helpful if we knew what they looked like with Ben Simmons playing.
Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 33,946
And1: 16,327
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel 

Post#169 » by Sixerscan » Fri Jan 6, 2017 12:34 am

Winejk wrote:It is too bad that we haven't been able to see any of our bigs with Ben Simmons playing. While I'm not against trading one or two of the bigs at trade deadline, it sure would be helpful if we knew what they looked like with Ben Simmons playing.


It'd be helpful to play them with our 2017 picks. Or any free agents we can get. Or see how they mature with SImmons and Embiid. Can't keep waiting for perfect information...
hookshot199
Analyst
Posts: 3,261
And1: 723
Joined: Jun 16, 2014
   

Re: Celtics fans seem to favor Noel 

Post#170 » by hookshot199 » Fri Jan 6, 2017 5:01 pm

Sixerscan wrote:
Winejk wrote:It is too bad that we haven't been able to see any of our bigs with Ben Simmons playing. While I'm not against trading one or two of the bigs at trade deadline, it sure would be helpful if we knew what they looked like with Ben Simmons playing.


It'd be helpful to play them with our 2017 picks. Or any free agents we can get. Or see how they mature with SImmons and Embiid. Can't keep waiting for perfect information...



Agree to a point. There's no doubt in my mind that Noel can play with Embiid - play 4 on defense when Embiid is in the game, play 5 when he's out. The problem to me is that Brown is a blockhead and doesn't want it to work because he can't see it. Self-fulfilling prophesy.

The issue then becomes conveying to Okafor that they're going to move him to a better situation for him and will play him in situations that highlight his skills. He is making $4.7 mil/year. If not the coach, somebody needs to sit him - perhaps Coach K - and tell him what's expected of a pro. Body language counts.

I still don't believe that the trade deadline is the best time to move Okafor unless someone makes an offer you can't refuse. There are too many unknowns. Are we going to get two top-10 picks or one? Is our pick going to be top-5, or are we going to improve when Simmons comes back and draft between 6 and 10? And then there is the issue of teams like the Lakers and Portland, both in trouble because of bad veteran signings, who may see value in him? Teams looking for a developmental big in this year's draft may conclude that Okafor has more upside than some of the centers projected between 10 and 20.

Too many unknowns.

I still believe the Sam's best year was the first year the Sixers brought in Moses to be a 'bigs' coach. I don't know if Moses did F-all, but Sam performed better that season in my opinion.

Return to Philadelphia 76ers