2025 NBA Draft (2)

[Iverson Armband]

Has anyone been able to figure out where LeonJordanJr24 stands on the third pick?

Leo sounds like a guy who likes to keep things close to the vest

[Negrodamus]

Finally got around to looking at Queen's final 8 minutes against top 80 teams:

1.00 FTr (lol), 10.6 AST%, 7.5 TO%, 80.4% FT. Struggles from three and from midrange. Impressive foul generator in crunch time.

[zaz102]

Has anyone been able to figure out where LeonJordanJr24 stands on the third pick?

Leo sounds like a guy who likes to keep things close to the vest

I'm not sure who it is, but I know it's not kippe

[Arsenal]

I meant the similarities in their driving game. They both are very shifty when they're dealing with P&R's, using their wide bodies and plenty of fakes to get efficient shots despite their limited athleticism and relative positional length.
I get the Allen comparison, but I feel he's more a traditional SG with a more dynamic shooting style, but more limited playmaking/P&R capabilities.

The Knueppel intrigue from my side is based on his upside as a secondary playmaker. I feel that he's capable of far more than what he has showed at Duke this year.

Grayson Allen was also a far superior athlete vs. Kon. That's why Kon skipped the athletic testing at the combine with a bogus injury, and appears to be running out the clock on ever doing those tests before the draft.

He's obviously not outrunning or outjumping other prospects, but aside from lateral quickness issues with his one-on-one defending, I don't see his athletic limitations lead to major deficiencies on the court. I personally don't rate those combine measurements at all, it's the type of stuff that make you pick Bagley and Ayton instead of Doncic.

No. Measurements and athletic testing matter, that's why they do them. They aren't the only thing that matters like in your straw man example, but they do matter. Kon ducked the testing with a fake injury because he knows those tests will expose his lacking athleticism. The measurements which he couldn't duck exposed his t-rex wingspan.

The NBA is a massive jump in terms of speed and athleticism. Just because you can feast on open 3's against future accountants due to a stacked team surrounding you opening up the floor, doesn't mean you'll be able to do the same in the NBA against the best athletes in the world where the talent disparity on different teams isn't that much.

[Arsenal]

Finally got around to looking at Queen's final 8 minutes against top 80 teams:

1.00 FTr (lol), 10.6 AST%, 7.5 TO%, 80.4% FT. Struggles from three and from midrange. Impressive foul generator in crunch time.

Holy small sample size Batman!

[Negrodamus]

Finally got around to looking at Queen's final 8 minutes against top 80 teams:

1.00 FTr (lol), 10.6 AST%, 7.5 TO%, 80.4% FT. Struggles from three and from midrange. Impressive foul generator in crunch time.

Holy small sample size Batman!

My bad, we only consider those stats when it's Ace Bailey. Carry on.

[Negrodamus]

My favorite part of this draft process is that any prospect that's not on an abject dog **** roster is now having their stats considered inflated in comparison to Ace. Lets forget that superstars have been coming from some of the most talented teams in the last 20 years (AD, KAT & Booker, Zion).

[76ciology]

Has anyone been able to figure out where LeonJordanJr24 stands on the third pick?

He’s picking Ace even if both Mavs and Spurs pass up Flagg.

[zaz102]

My favorite part of this draft process is that any prospect that's not on an abject dog **** roster is now having their stats considered inflated in comparison to Ace. Lets forget that superstars have been coming from some of the most talented teams in the last 20 years (AD, KAT & Booker, Zion).

The reason I take it into account is because this is the first time I can remember that a top prospect went to a lower tier school. Rutgers barely ever made the tournament in their history. This all thanks due to the new NIL rules.

Those other players you mentioned all still went to top tier schools. We would have to look at their teammates just like I did earlier in this thread to get context. It could be excuses, but there's a legitimate reason why Ace's situation is different than others.

[CPops57]

The NBA is a massive jump in terms of speed and athleticism. Just because you can feast on open 3's against future accountants due to a stacked team surrounding you opening up the floor, doesn't mean you'll be able to do the same in the NBA against the best athletes in the world where the talent disparity on different teams isn't that much.

Obviously, there's no guarantee of how any prospect's game translating to the pros, but here's 2 small counterpoints in terms of speed and athleticism as relates to offense.

Ever notice that sometimes the most athletic guys just aren't driving, scoring, or dunking unless they're wide open? (or they are slow at other things like being late to rotate defensively, but that's a topic for another post) I'm thinking a little in terms of Mario Hezonja's career, but I'm sure there are other examples of good athletes who seemed to play very slow. Athletic measurements at the combine can't measure things that also really matter for playing fast like processing speed and court vision. You know what's even faster than the fastest athlete driving the lane and doing a monster dunk? What's even faster than that is a guy that sees the play developing a second or two ahead of time and is in the right spot faster. Or a guy recognizes the right window to throw up a lob pass for the guy already at the hoop. The pass is faster than the drive.

At Duke, opponents knew Kon likely was going to the rim rather than pulling up, and they still couldn't stop it. He was actually good at getting to the rim and finishing. Crafty scorers find a way to get a good shot off regardless of size constraints. Another component of athletic ability isn't just speed and explosion but strength. Guys with good frames/weight who are willing to mix it up and have good timing can bump guys off balance and create space and opportunities though more ways than just raw speed. At Kon's height, his weight (I believe 217) make him like a boulder in comparison to taller and far skinnier prospects and give him ways to score that other prospects won't have access to for years.

[OleSchool]

My favorite part of this draft process is that any prospect that's not on an abject dog **** roster is now having their stats considered inflated in comparison to Ace. Lets forget that superstars have been coming from some of the most talented teams in the last 20 years (AD, KAT & Booker, Zion).

The reason I take it into account is because this is the first time I can remember that a top prospect went to a lower tier school. Rutgers barely ever made the tournament in their history. This all thanks due to the new NIL rules.

Those other players you mentioned all still went to top tier schools. We would have to look at their teammates just like I did earlier in this thread to get context. It could be excuses, but there's a legitimate reason why Ace's situation is different than others.

Simmons went to LSU and he didn't make the tourney

And the rest of the LSU COMBINED didn't have the talent that Harper has

[76ciology]

Anyone surprised that CMB didn’t receive greenroom
Invite?

[76ciology]

At Duke, opponents knew Kon likely was going to the rim rather than pulling up, and they still couldn't stop it. He was actually good at getting to the rim and finishing. Crafty scorers find a way to get a good shot off regardless of size constraints. Another component of athletic ability isn't just speed and explosion but strength. Guys with good frames/weight who are willing to mix it up and have good timing can bump guys off balance and create space and opportunities though more ways than just raw speed. At Kon's height, his weight (I believe 217) make him like a boulder in comparison to taller and far skinnier prospects and give him ways to score that other prospects won't have access to for years.

Yes, and playing alongside an elite lob threat like Khaman Maluach makes things easier for Kon around the rim. Rim protectors can’t fully commit to contesting his drives without risking an easy lob finish to Maluach. That dynamic inflates his paint finishing to some extent, which makes evaluating Kneuppel tricky.

[Arsenal]

The NBA is a massive jump in terms of speed and athleticism. Just because you can feast on open 3's against future accountants due to a stacked team surrounding you opening up the floor, doesn't mean you'll be able to do the same in the NBA against the best athletes in the world where the talent disparity on different teams isn't that much.

Obviously, there's no guarantee of how any prospect's game translating to the pros, but here's 2 small counterpoints in terms of speed and athleticism as relates to offense.

Ever notice that sometimes the most athletic guys just aren't driving, scoring, or dunking unless they're wide open? (or they are slow at other things like being late to rotate defensively, but that's a topic for another post) I'm thinking a little in terms of Mario Hezonja's career, but I'm sure there are other examples of good athletes who seemed to play very slow. Athletic measurements at the combine can't measure things that also really matter for playing fast like processing speed and court vision. You know what's even faster than the fastest athlete driving the lane and doing a monster dunk? What's even faster than that is a guy that sees the play developing a second or two ahead of time and is in the right spot faster. Or a guy recognizes the right window to throw up a lob pass for the guy already at the hoop. The pass is faster than the drive.

At Duke, opponents knew Kon likely was going to the rim rather than pulling up, and they still couldn't stop it. He was actually good at getting to the rim and finishing. Crafty scorers find a way to get a good shot off regardless of size constraints. Another component of athletic ability isn't just speed and explosion but strength. Guys with good frames/weight who are willing to mix it up and have good timing can bump guys off balance and create space and opportunities though more ways than just raw speed. At Kon's height, his weight (I believe 217) make him like a boulder in comparison to taller and far skinnier prospects and give him ways to score that other prospects won't have access to for years.

That's fine. However, what you seem to discount is it's a lot easier to get to the rim when you have a premium lob threat like Maluach keeping shotblockers away, sharpshooters like Proctor and James spacing the floor and opening up driving lanes, and an all-world teammate like Flagg who had to be accounted for at all times, as opposed to weaker teammates that don't present an offensive threat.

Kon was in the absolutely PERFECT situation to make him look better than he really is.

[Negrodamus]

My favorite part of this draft process is that any prospect that's not on an abject dog **** roster is now having their stats considered inflated in comparison to Ace. Lets forget that superstars have been coming from some of the most talented teams in the last 20 years (AD, KAT & Booker, Zion).

The reason I take it into account is because this is the first time I can remember that a top prospect went to a lower tier school. Rutgers barely ever made the tournament in their history. This all thanks due to the new NIL rules.

Those other players you mentioned all still went to top tier schools. We would have to look at their teammates just like I did earlier in this thread to get context. It could be excuses, but there's a legitimate reason why Ace's situation is different than others.

Simmons went to LSU and he didn't make the tourney

And the rest of the LSU COMBINED didn't have the talent that Harper has

Look at what Fultz did with a total absence of offensive players on his team, lol.

https://barttorvik.com/team.php?year=2017&team=Washington

Matisse Thybulle, as a sophomore, was the second best player on this team. Somehow Markelle still found ways to be a distributor, foul drawer, etc.

[zaz102]

My favorite part of this draft process is that any prospect that's not on an abject dog **** roster is now having their stats considered inflated in comparison to Ace. Lets forget that superstars have been coming from some of the most talented teams in the last 20 years (AD, KAT & Booker, Zion).

The reason I take it into account is because this is the first time I can remember that a top prospect went to a lower tier school. Rutgers barely ever made the tournament in their history. This all thanks due to the new NIL rules.

Those other players you mentioned all still went to top tier schools. We would have to look at their teammates just like I did earlier in this thread to get context. It could be excuses, but there's a legitimate reason why Ace's situation is different than others.

Simmons went to LSU and he didn't make the tourney

And the rest of the LSU COMBINED didn't have the talent that Harper has

That's a good point. I could see his assist numbers being higher since he's a point, but I would think he would have problems getting to rim or generating free throws. He had really strong assist, rim, and free throw numbers.

Maybe I'm overthinking how much the crap team impacted Ace.

[76ciology]

I’ll go back to the chart I made on unassisted shots in the halfcourt, it clearly shows how low Kon’s shot volume is compared to other prospects we’re evaluating. Even he admit that his off-the-dribble 3pt shooting needs improvement and gave himself the Klay Thompson comp. While he might show flashes of shot creation, I don’t think he has the skill level to be a primary scorer who can scale down into a secondary role. He looks more like a true third option who can rise to be a second option, someone who thrives off the gravity of his teammates, similar to how Maxey played alongside Harden and Embiid early on.

[Arsenal]

The reason I take it into account is because this is the first time I can remember that a top prospect went to a lower tier school. Rutgers barely ever made the tournament in their history. This all thanks due to the new NIL rules.

Those other players you mentioned all still went to top tier schools. We would have to look at their teammates just like I did earlier in this thread to get context. It could be excuses, but there's a legitimate reason why Ace's situation is different than others.

Simmons went to LSU and he didn't make the tourney

And the rest of the LSU COMBINED didn't have the talent that Harper has

That's a good point. I could see his assist numbers being higher since he's a point, but I would think he would have problems getting to rim or generating free throws. He had really strong assist, rim, and free throw numbers.

Maybe I'm overthinking how much the crap team impacted Ace.

No, Rutgers was much worse than Ben's LSU team. FIVE players from that Tigers squad played in the NBA.

For this Rutgers team it will be Ace and Harper and that's it.

[CPops57]

Kon was in the absolutely PERFECT situation to make him look better than he really is.

1) So he's proven the ability to coexist with and feed into the strengths of other good players on good teams, and this is bad why? I want smart players who figure out how to capitalize on their team's strengths. We don't dismiss star players who are able to play well with other star players.

2) Kon has demonstrated the ability to be a great scorer at every level of basketball. Kneuppel's elite high school, EYBL (I didn't know this before looking it up, but he led it in scoring), and even the ACC Tournament when Cooper Flagg was hurt where he averaged 21.0 points per game on 48.6% field goal shooting, with 5.0 rebounds, 4.7 assists, and 1.3 steals per game all illustrate that he can succeed as a prime scorer regardless of team quality.

3) Kneuppel playing with Cooper Flagg is pretty interesting because I think it actually might have limited him a bit. The only time Kneuppel hasn't clearly been the #1 option in his basketball career is as a freshman at Duke playing with a generational talent. When Flagg was hurt, Kon was the clear #1 option on that team as a freshman and won the MVP of the ACC tournament. That's a small sample size, but should give considerable doubt to the idea that he was only efficient because he played with Flagg.

4) For what it's worth, while Maluach's abilities do help Kon, the vice versa is also true. Maluach doesn't shoot 70% without Kon's spacing and good lobs either.

[Negrodamus]

Anyone surprised that CMB didn’t receive greenroom
Invite?

I'd take him before a lot of these players and just lock him in a gym with a shot coach. He's really a jumpshot away from being a freak in the NBA. Unfortunately, it's hard to fix that jumper.