Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll

[sixers4real]

You are absolutely correct that I see Simmons as a transcendent talent, and you don't.

That really is the difference between people like you and me, and that is fair.

I obviously disagree with you because I see him as an OBVIOUS superstar prospect on the level of Iverson, Barkley, Towns, or Davis.

He is good enough to be BEYOND the types of quibbles that people like you are making.

There is nothing to be said other than to see how things play out. We are both confident in our positions, but only one of us is right, and only time will tell.

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Barkley and Iverson were never able to win championships. Neither player had a reliable jump shot and both struggled to make winning shots to close games.

Both players were highly overrated stars. That is the most obvious comparison to Ben Simmons.

How many games are we going to watch Ben Simmons lose in the last two minutes because he can't hit a jumpshot? Been there, seen that before.

Ben Simmons has won 3 National Championships in 4 years and was finals MVP in 2 of them. How many has Ingram won?

Wow, I didn't know that.

[anubis0713]

Barkley and Iverson were never able to win championships. Neither player had a reliable jump shot and both struggled to make winning shots to close games.

Both players were highly overrated stars. That is the most obvious comparison to Ben Simmons.

How many games are we going to watch Ben Simmons lose in the last two minutes because he can't hit a jumpshot? Been there, seen that before.

Ben Simmons has won 3 National Championships in 4 years and was finals MVP in 2 of them. How many has Ingram won?

Wow, I didn't know that.

They may have been high school lol

[cksdayoff]

here's ingram with a basketball in his hand



the rim is at his bicep

[Agnostifarian]

here's ingram with a basketball in his hand



the rim is at his bicep

14 MONTHS YOUNGER THAN BEN!!!

[Aussiepiston1]

I watched a lot of Ben Simmons games as they played all of them here in Australia.
He frustrated me a lot as he looked pretty passive some of the times, but when he turned it on He was unbelievable much like Lebron (not saying he's Lebron)
I watched a few games of Brandon Ingraham and I was very impressed that I almost convinced myself He is the pick, but after watching the playoffs and envisioning that potentially Simmons could Lebron lite and Ingraham could be Durant lite I want Simmons.
Just want to add that I won't be mad with Either and that I'm only comparing them to the greats skill set as they are very similar.

[Ericb5]

That's because you see Simmons as a transcendent talent and I don't. Givony just gave a way more detailed and inside look at what Simmons is and what he is not than I, or anyone here, could give. This is a guy that has been watching Simmons since before he was a household name. Saying things like he's afraid of shooting in shootaround because he's afraid of showing his deficiencies? What the hell is that?

He names Lamar Odom as what Simmons is mostly like. That's a really good player. Definitely worth a top 2 pick in this weak draft. A great comparison I saw for Ingram was a longer Danny Granger in his prime before injuries. Is that a top 5 player in the NBA? Nope. Neither is Lamar Odom. I just don't see anyone in the range of KAT or Davis in this draft. It's interesting you put Wiggins in the second tier since he was so incredibly hyped coming into the draft. It's almost as if he didn't live up to the hype. It does happen.

You are absolutely correct that I see Simmons as a transcendent talent, and you don't.

That really is the difference between people like you and me, and that is fair.

I obviously disagree with you because I see him as an OBVIOUS superstar prospect on the level of Iverson, Barkley, Towns, or Davis.

He is good enough to be BEYOND the types of quibbles that people like you are making.

There is nothing to be said other than to see how things play out. We are both confident in our positions, but only one of us is right, and only time will tell.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Barkley and Iverson were never able to win championships. Neither player had a reliable jump shot and both struggled to make winning shots to close games.

Both players were highly overrated stars. That is the most obvious comparison to Ben Simmons.

How many games are we going to watch Ben Simmons lose in the last two minutes because he can't hit a jumpshot? Been there, seen that before.

If Simmons turns into another Barkley or Iverson we take him ten out of ten times. Flawed superstars are much better than unflawed non stars.


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[Negrodamus]

You are absolutely correct that I see Simmons as a transcendent talent, and you don't.

That really is the difference between people like you and me, and that is fair.

I obviously disagree with you because I see him as an OBVIOUS superstar prospect on the level of Iverson, Barkley, Towns, or Davis.

He is good enough to be BEYOND the types of quibbles that people like you are making.

There is nothing to be said other than to see how things play out. We are both confident in our positions, but only one of us is right, and only time will tell.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Barkley and Iverson were never able to win championships. Neither player had a reliable jump shot and both struggled to make winning shots to close games.

Both players were highly overrated stars. That is the most obvious comparison to Ben Simmons.

How many games are we going to watch Ben Simmons lose in the last two minutes because he can't hit a jumpshot? Been there, seen that before.

Ben Simmons has won 3 National Championships in 4 years and was finals MVP in 2 of them. How many has Ingram won ,how many game winners have you seen him hit?

0 because he went to Kinston and not some charmed situation like an Oak Hill or Monteverde Prep. Monteverde lost in the semi finals this year. I think they're moving on fine without Simmons.

Ingram did win four consecutive North Carolina State championships. I think he's the first to do that.

[freshie2]

Barkley and Iverson were never able to win championships. Neither player had a reliable jump shot and both struggled to make winning shots to close games.

Both players were highly overrated stars. That is the most obvious comparison to Ben Simmons.

How many games are we going to watch Ben Simmons lose in the last two minutes because he can't hit a jumpshot? Been there, seen that before.

If Simmons turns into another Barkley or Iverson we take him ten out of ten times. Flawed superstars are much better than unflawed non stars.[/quote]

If I didn't think there was such a "star" gap between Simmons and Ingram, the Iverson comparison may have pushed me into the Ingram camp. I'm still not sure he's a head case like Iverson.

[Agnostifarian]

And DX moves Brandon Ingram to #1 -- Mocks him to PHI

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2016/

Lol. Laughable. DX is now a joke.

This post by Unbreakable99 is from March 13th, page 13 of this Thread. This is his first post in the thread. For two months prior to this post, while Simmons and Ingram were compiling their respective bodies of work in games, other posters were watching these prospects and discussing their evolutions.

What is actually laughable are all the bandwagon highlight watchers that have come out of the woodwork to laud Simmons' prodigiousness...

We now have 224 votes cast in our poll -- 55% Simmons/45% Ingram. Typically, our board will cast about 120 votes in a well voted poll (my spitball estimate). These scores of pages posted since the Lottery are polluted by a lot of people who didn't spend hours and weeks watching these two prospects actually play basketball.

I keep hearing how PHI prefers Simmons... Simmons is this year's version of Angelo Russell -- he is a media phenomenon. Colangelo has a vested interest in touting Simmons and making this look like a one player first tier. I applaud that effort.

I would take a lunch pale team with a Championship over an MVP leading a treadmill team.

Again, Simmons will be the same as Iverson, Barkley and Dr. J before him, a guy who is great for the first 46 minutes but can't deliver a big win in the last two minutes. None of these guys had a reliable jump shot. Simmons may end up in the HOF just like these other players but I don't want another guy who is going to choke when the game is on the line. Simmons won't shoot jump shots pregame because he is embarrassed, self conscious and lacks confidence. I can only imagine the damage that his fragile self esteem will suffer when NBA players sag off of him at the perimeter and force him away from finishing with his right hand.

Simmons was a "high school champion?" SMH.

[Unbreakable99]

And DX moves Brandon Ingram to #1 -- Mocks him to PHI

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2016/

Lol. Laughable. DX is now a joke.

This post by Unbreakable99 is from March 13th, page 13 of this Thread. This is his first post in the thread. For two months prior to this post, while Simmons and Ingram were compiling their respective bodies of work in games, other posters were watching these prospects and discussing their evolutions.

What is actually laughable are all the bandwagon highlight watchers that have come out of the woodwork to laud Simmons' prodigiousness...

We now have 224 votes cast in our poll -- 55% Simmons/45% Ingram. Typically, our board will cast about 120 votes in a well voted poll (my spitball estimate). These scores of pages posted since the Lottery are polluted by a lot of people who didn't spend hours and weeks watching these two prospects actually play basketball.

I keep hearing how PHI prefers Simmons... Simmons is this year's version of Angelo Russell -- he is a media phenomenon. Colangelo has a vested interest in touting Simmons and making this look like a one player first tier. I applaud that effort.

I would take a lunch pale team with a Championship over an MVP leading a treadmill team.

Again, Simmons will be the same as Iverson, Barkley and Dr. J before him, a guy who is great for the first 46 minutes but can't deliver a big win in the last two minutes. None of these guys had a reliable jump shot. Simmons may end up in the HOF just like these other players but I don't want another guy who is going to choke when the game is on the line. Simmons won't shoot jump shots pregame because he is embarrassed, self conscious and lacks confidence. I can only imagine the damage that his fragile self esteem will suffer when NBA players sag off of him at the perimeter and force him away from finishing with his right hand.

Simmons was a "high school champion?" SMH.

Simmons is nothing like D'Angelo Russell as far as hype goes. Where do you keep coming up with these analogies? Russell wasn't even a top 15 draft pick going into his freshman year. Simmons was projected to go number one since he was like a junior in high school. He had the hype back then and backed it up. He lived up to the hype his freshman season. If anything Ingram is more like Russell because he is the fast riser although Ingram was more highly touted than Russell. Ingram was also projected as a top 5 pick so it's not as much as a major jump like Russell but if you could only choose between Simmons and Ingram on who compares more to Russell as far as pre draft hype then it's Ingram.

And why do you keep bringing up AI and Barkley and Dr. J. I already brought up LeBron and Wade. They are not reliable jump shooters and are great players and closers and won titles. Your analogies are way off.

[Ericb5]

Barkley and Iverson were never able to win championships. Neither player had a reliable jump shot and both struggled to make winning shots to close games.

Both players were highly overrated stars. That is the most obvious comparison to Ben Simmons.

How many games are we going to watch Ben Simmons lose in the last two minutes because he can't hit a jumpshot? Been there, seen that before.

If Simmons turns into another Barkley or Iverson we take him ten out of ten times. Flawed superstars are much better than unflawed non stars.

If I didn't think there was such a "star" gap between Simmons and Ingram, the Iverson comparison may have pushed me into the Ingram camp. I'm still not sure he's a head case like Iverson.[/quote]

I use Barkley and Iverson as examples of superstar talents that were pretty unique. They had their flaws but they were both first ballot hall of famers.

I think Simmons is a talent like that, and that's a good place to start. How hard he works will dictate how his career plays out after being drafted, but that is his upside.

I don't see the same talent level in Ingram.

The point is that superstars with flaws are much better than lesser players with fewer flaws.

If Iverson or Barkley ever had the chance to play with what Embiid can become they would have probably won a title or two.


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[Agnostifarian]

Lol. Laughable. DX is now a joke.

This post by Unbreakable99 is from March 13th, page 13 of this Thread. This is his first post in the thread. For two months prior to this post, while Simmons and Ingram were compiling their respective bodies of work in games, other posters were watching these prospects and discussing their evolutions.

What is actually laughable are all the bandwagon highlight watchers that have come out of the woodwork to laud Simmons' prodigiousness...

We now have 224 votes cast in our poll -- 55% Simmons/45% Ingram. Typically, our board will cast about 120 votes in a well voted poll (my spitball estimate). These scores of pages posted since the Lottery are polluted by a lot of people who didn't spend hours and weeks watching these two prospects actually play basketball.

I keep hearing how PHI prefers Simmons... Simmons is this year's version of Angelo Russell -- he is a media phenomenon. Colangelo has a vested interest in touting Simmons and making this look like a one player first tier. I applaud that effort.

I would take a lunch pale team with a Championship over an MVP leading a treadmill team.

Again, Simmons will be the same as Iverson, Barkley and Dr. J before him, a guy who is great for the first 46 minutes but can't deliver a big win in the last two minutes. None of these guys had a reliable jump shot. Simmons may end up in the HOF just like these other players but I don't want another guy who is going to choke when the game is on the line. Simmons won't shoot jump shots pregame because he is embarrassed, self conscious and lacks confidence. I can only imagine the damage that his fragile self esteem will suffer when NBA players sag off of him at the perimeter and force him away from finishing with his right hand.

Simmons was a "high school champion?" SMH.

Simmons is nothing like D'Angelo Russell as far as hype goes. Where do you keep coming up with these analogies? Russell wasn't even a top 15 draft pick going into his freshman year. Simmons was projected to go number one since he was like a junior in high school. He had the hype back then and backed it up. He lived up to the hype his freshman season. If anything Ingram is more like Russell because he is the fast riser although Ingram was more highly touted than Russell. Ingram was also projected as a top 5 pick so it's not as much as a major jump like Russell but if you could only choose between Simmons and Ingram on who compares more to Russell as far as pre draft hype then it's Ingram.

And why do you keep bringing up AI and Barkley and Dr. J. I already brought up LeBron and Wade. They are not reliable jump shooters and are great players and closers and won titles. Your analogies are way off.

Russell wilted in big games at Ohio State. Same for Simmons at LSU. That is my analogy. You are the one comparing Simmons to LBJ and Wade...

[Unbreakable99]

This post by Unbreakable99 is from March 13th, page 13 of this Thread. This is his first post in the thread. For two months prior to this post, while Simmons and Ingram were compiling their respective bodies of work in games, other posters were watching these prospects and discussing their evolutions.

What is actually laughable are all the bandwagon highlight watchers that have come out of the woodwork to laud Simmons' prodigiousness...

We now have 224 votes cast in our poll -- 55% Simmons/45% Ingram. Typically, our board will cast about 120 votes in a well voted poll (my spitball estimate). These scores of pages posted since the Lottery are polluted by a lot of people who didn't spend hours and weeks watching these two prospects actually play basketball.

I keep hearing how PHI prefers Simmons... Simmons is this year's version of Angelo Russell -- he is a media phenomenon. Colangelo has a vested interest in touting Simmons and making this look like a one player first tier. I applaud that effort.

I would take a lunch pale team with a Championship over an MVP leading a treadmill team.

Again, Simmons will be the same as Iverson, Barkley and Dr. J before him, a guy who is great for the first 46 minutes but can't deliver a big win in the last two minutes. None of these guys had a reliable jump shot. Simmons may end up in the HOF just like these other players but I don't want another guy who is going to choke when the game is on the line. Simmons won't shoot jump shots pregame because he is embarrassed, self conscious and lacks confidence. I can only imagine the damage that his fragile self esteem will suffer when NBA players sag off of him at the perimeter and force him away from finishing with his right hand.

Simmons was a "high school champion?" SMH.

Simmons is nothing like D'Angelo Russell as far as hype goes. Where do you keep coming up with these analogies? Russell wasn't even a top 15 draft pick going into his freshman year. Simmons was projected to go number one since he was like a junior in high school. He had the hype back then and backed it up. He lived up to the hype his freshman season. If anything Ingram is more like Russell because he is the fast riser although Ingram was more highly touted than Russell. Ingram was also projected as a top 5 pick so it's not as much as a major jump like Russell but if you could only choose between Simmons and Ingram on who compares more to Russell as far as pre draft hype then it's Ingram.

And why do you keep bringing up AI and Barkley and Dr. J. I already brought up LeBron and Wade. They are not reliable jump shooters and are great players and closers and won titles. Your analogies are way off.

Russell wilted in big games at Ohio State. Same for Simmons at LSU. That is my analogy. You are the one comparing Simmons to LBJ and Wade...

And you're the one comparing Simmons to AI and Barkley and Dr. J. At least you compare him to hall of famers though so that makes this even easier. Give me the superstar. And Dr. J won a title with Moses. Embiid can be our Moses. Thanks for the comparison. Now that you mentioned it this should make any Simmons doubters stop. It should make them prefer Simmons over Ingram.

[Sixerscan]

Just want to get on the record that I am on board with drafting Julius Erving.

[Ericb5]

Just want to get on the record that I am on board with drafting Julius Erving.

Lol, me too.


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[76ciology]

You are absolutely correct that I see Simmons as a transcendent talent, and you don't.

That really is the difference between people like you and me, and that is fair.

I obviously disagree with you because I see him as an OBVIOUS superstar prospect on the level of Iverson, Barkley, Towns, or Davis.

He is good enough to be BEYOND the types of quibbles that people like you are making.

There is nothing to be said other than to see how things play out. We are both confident in our positions, but only one of us is right, and only time will tell.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Barkley and Iverson were never able to win championships. Neither player had a reliable jump shot and both struggled to make winning shots to close games.

Both players were highly overrated stars. That is the most obvious comparison to Ben Simmons.

How many games are we going to watch Ben Simmons lose in the last two minutes because he can't hit a jumpshot? Been there, seen that before.

Ben Simmons has won 3 National Championships in 4 years and was finals MVP in 2 of them. How many has Ingram won ,how many game winners have you seen him hit?

In a league outside USA where it's easier to win a season playing 2K on hall of fame difficulty.

[tk76]

I see the analogy of AI and Barkley in that they were both unusual players for their size/position that you needed to work hard to build around. They were not the type that you could easily plug into any roster. They also had unique personalities that certainly effected their teams- sometimes for better and sometimes for worse.

This may be the case for every star, but Barkley and AI were extremes. While Erving was more of a prototypical wing for his era.

[PhilasFinest]

And DX moves Brandon Ingram to #1 -- Mocks him to PHI

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2016/

Lol. Laughable. DX is now a joke.

This post by Unbreakable99 is from March 13th, page 13 of this Thread. This is his first post in the thread. For two months prior to this post, while Simmons and Ingram were compiling their respective bodies of work in games, other posters were watching these prospects and discussing their evolutions.

What is actually laughable are all the bandwagon highlight watchers that have come out of the woodwork to laud Simmons' prodigiousness...

We now have 224 votes cast in our poll -- 55% Simmons/45% Ingram. Typically, our board will cast about 120 votes in a well voted poll (my spitball estimate). These scores of pages posted since the Lottery are polluted by a lot of people who didn't spend hours and weeks watching these two prospects actually play basketball.

I keep hearing how PHI prefers Simmons... Simmons is this year's version of Angelo Russell -- he is a media phenomenon. Colangelo has a vested interest in touting Simmons and making this look like a one player first tier. I applaud that effort.

I would take a lunch pale team with a Championship over an MVP leading a treadmill team.

Again, Simmons will be the same as Iverson, Barkley and Dr. J before him, a guy who is great for the first 46 minutes but can't deliver a big win in the last two minutes. None of these guys had a reliable jump shot. Simmons may end up in the HOF just like these other players but I don't want another guy who is going to choke when the game is on the line. Simmons won't shoot jump shots pregame because he is embarrassed, self conscious and lacks confidence. I can only imagine the damage that his fragile self esteem will suffer when NBA players sag off of him at the perimeter and force him away from finishing with his right hand.

Simmons was a "high school champion?" SMH.

SO Your saying you DON'T want a franchise player, multiple all star and hall of famer. Ok,so What exactly are you looking for with the #1 pick?

Also, what the hell is a "lunchpail" team? And how many of those have actually won? To my knowledge, most of those teams don't win very often and turn out to be treadmill teams more often then those led by an MVP candidate.

[Negrodamus]

I see the analogy of AI and Barkley in that they were both unusual players for their size/position that you needed to work hard to build around. They were not the type that you could easily plug into any roster. They also had unique personalities that certainly effected their teams- sometimes for better and sometimes for worse.

This may be the case for every star, but Barkley and AI were extremes. While Erving was more of a prototypical wing for his era.

The case against it is that they were undersized players that had something to prove in order to make it in this league.

Simmons is a 6'11 point guard (that can't shoot) and plays like he knows he's an anomaly, so he coasts at times.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

At the very least, we are a playoff team with Simmons every year until he decides to leave us (assuming we draft him). I don't see Brandon Ingram as a player you build an entire team around, but I do see that with Ben Simmons. He's a player that if you have on your roster, you are never out of a game/series/contention. He's the closest thing to a franchise player in this draft, you take him without question regardless of fit. Between Simmons, Okafor, Noel, Embiid, and Saric an alpha player or two will emerge with possibly a third being a key contributor to the team. I'm willing to bet all the money I have on one of those players being Ben Simmons.

Right now we have no identity and we wont know what that identity is until we have a player we can actually build around. I believe you build off the strengths that you obtain, it's not as simple as blueprints to a building, it's the other way around and it's much more complex in my opinion. I don't think everything is the same, nor is there an exact/simple science towards building a roster that produces winning basketball.

Obviously we can speculate who would fit best with each other, and a lot of times, those theories are correct for the most part. However, if we take Ben Simmons, there will have to be a shuffling of the roster obviously. It's much more comfortable to just draft Ingram who can slide in at the small forward position without potentially getting in the way of Jahlil Okafor, Saric, Noel, or even Embiid. He's a much better "fit" for what we currently have. He's also an exceptional shooter from his position and potentially a matchup nightmare defensively for opposing teams... However....to say he is more talented than Ben Simmons is simply a false statement. We have a top three pick because this team is atrocious. Bad teams have no identity, they have no talent, and they don't have a go to player.

While Ben Simmons isn't the scorer that a Kevin Durant is, he can and will make the other players around him better. He will elevate the production of a Jahlil Okafor, he make role players like Isaiah Cannan and Robert Covington three point shooting marksmen. Even defensively I think he's going to be a great player, he's way too athletic to be a negative defender in the NBA. He'll be a nightmare for opposing teams in transition, and with Ben Simmons we can play basically any style of basketball we want to play. It goes way beyond just being able to shoot the basketball. I think Ben Simmons is better at every single facet of the game besides shooting than Brandon Ingram.

I love Brandon Ingram, I would be fine with us taking him if that is what we decide to do, but i'm team Simmons all the way.