The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV

[Iverson Armband]

I think we're creating our own identity and trend with Simmons. He's a unique player and a lot of people can't handle that. It freaks them out. The thing is, is that every team that wins a ring is unique and has unique one of a kind players. They go against the trends of all the other copycat teams and they create their own.

Every team that wins a ring also has atleast one elite shot creator from the perimeter, let’s not forget about that either. So no, it’s not that people can’t handle Ben’s “uniqueness”, it’s about the fact that people know what it takes to win a championship and the Sixers likely aren’t getting there without it.

So yeah, enjoy the wins now. Be as different as you want. Thats cool n all, but it’s likely that won’t be enough when it’s money time...you saw what happened to the Bucks the past two years after whooping everybody in the regular season.

If the Sixers get bounced out again because they can’t compete offensively and Ben is scoring 12ppg, nobody will want to hear about him being unique...and rightfully so. I guess we just have to see what happens.

[Skates]

People always talk about adding players around Embiid that fit Embiid, honestly he is a one man wrecking crew and other than not adding ball pounding high usage guys that take the ball out of his hands too much, most players can fit with Embiid if they can just shoot corner threes. Simmons is the guy that suffers from the unathletic wings this team has running, well, more like fast walking with him. Give Simmons a couple of greyhound running mates on the wings, maybe even one, and his effect on the game would multiply quickly, and we have already seen how important he is, not just the other night, but in the playoffs last year as well. The way Simmons is playing again is starting to look like prime Simmons before Covid/injuries last year. He gets out on the break from steals, rebounds, even made baskets, and other than Tobias, there is no one running with him unless Thybulle or Maxey is in the game.

Nice to see Curry hit some shots today, but trading Simmons is not the answer. Harden was one of the few guys that might not fit with Embiid given they both are very ball dominant, and the Rockets were literally never going to trade him to Morey. The Nets gave up no big name players in the deal, so why do we have to give up Simmons in every trade? If Thybulle cold consistently hit the three he would be a perfect replacement for Danny Green, but he can't. Green and Curry are unathletic role players who do not complement Simmons well at all. He makes those two look good, and Green at least can defend at times still, but those are the spots that need upgraded.

Lavine is probably the prototype of the player you could add to Simmons, Tobias and Embiid. Athletic, shooter, young, not a great defender, but start he and Thybulle as your first team specialist, because with those other four guys the occasional three and stifling, disruptive D would be all you need there. Assume Danny Green, Milton, Maxey, Scott and picks head the other way, with maybe one minimum playable guy coming back with Lavine. That puts Curry on the second unit with Korkmaz, Howard and you find a serviceable point guard and decent shooting 3/4 to pair with them. Put a top level athlete on the wing with Simmons and watch the numbers this team puts up fly higher and higher, without stealing much usage from Jojo and staggering the starters so that Tobias is the go to guy man with the second unit.

[Iverson Armband]

Nobody is saying Ben is not valuable.

Some (like me) are just saying we need someone more valuable.

Sixers fans only include Ben on trades for Harden, Beal and sometimes Lavine. You dont see Sixers fans trying to trade Ben for expiring or for more depth.

That is if you want to win the championship.

If you just want another first to second round exit, then carry on.

Exactly. People act like if you trade Ben, you just lose all his great qualities, but then don’t gain any of the great qualities the guy you traded him for brings.

[DCasey91]

I think we're creating our own identity and trend with Simmons. He's a unique player and a lot of people can't handle that. It freaks them out. The thing is, is that every team that wins a ring is unique and has unique one of a kind players. They go against the trends of all the other copycat teams and they create their own.

Yes all have championship level teams have unique quirks or straight up busted systems (GSW).

But with us the best cause of action is cut and dry. Embiid is an elite two way big could name ten of the same with the exact same archetype players to go along with them, and delivered not just one but multiple chips.

Hakeem
Nowitzki aside

Chamberlain
Duncan
Shaq
James
Abdul-jabbar
Wallace
Russell
Mchale
Garnett
Davis
Walton
Malone
Durant

All had the same “archetype” of players that they paired with. Now correlation does not causation but this I bet 100% on the former. Now that’s like 80-85% ( higher if you discount the bulls) of all championship wins.
Embiid with the right pairing causes massive amount of dividends down the line (I’m talking more than one championship).

[kio80]

I dont “hate” or dislike Ben Simmons that I just want to get rid of him.

But I do acknowledge this team has far greater needs to make it deep in the playoffs. More than just “complimentary pieces”.

If I can get James Harden for expirings and second round picks, why wouldnt I want that?

Right now, I dont think there’s anyone available for a trade in the archetype of the player we want. So I dont mind treading water trying our best with what we have right now. Then be smart in accumulating and not wasting assets, then just be ready to pounce when there’s an opportunity.

Kind of like how Celtics do their thing.

You are missing a very important point, which I stressed over and over many times, which is player development.
As well as Embiid is playing, this is not the only year he’s going to play like an MVP, there’s going to be a 3-4 year window for us, at this current pace to be winning a championship. it is about all things clicking, you can’t force it by making trades all over the place, team chemistry and player development is utmost important.


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[DCasey91]

I dont “hate” or dislike Ben Simmons that I just want to get rid of him.

But I do acknowledge this team has far greater needs to make it deep in the playoffs. More than just “complimentary pieces”.

If I can get James Harden for expirings and second round picks, why wouldnt I want that?

Right now, I dont think there’s anyone available for a trade in the archetype of the player we want. So I dont mind treading water trying our best with what we have right now. Then be smart in accumulating and not wasting assets, then just be ready to pounce when there’s an opportunity.

Kind of like how Celtics do their thing.

You are missing a very important point, which I stressed over and over many times, which is player development.
As well as Embiid is playing, this is not the only year he’s going to play like an MVP, there’s going to be a 3-4 year window for us, at this current pace to be winning a championship. it is about all things clicking, you can’t force it by making trades all over the place, team chemistry and player development is utmost important.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Our player development/Player evaluation is arguably the worst in the league.

Take it for granted but Ingram/Brown have improved a lot more then Ben. But for the 76ers I’d have to be forced to take Ben because there’s zero chance we could develop either Brown/Ingram under the tenure of colagelo/coach brown era. No young player has developed under that reign. (Embiid is a savant, and Ben well Ben reached his apex along time ago.)

[PLO]

Our player eval is actually top notch, now and historically. Top notch, even with notable whiffs. Look at the players we have now and others we've had who are in the league. Simmons has an extreme flaw in his game and was coming off a very high floor when he came into the league compared to Brown and Ingram. Ingram was sub 200 lbs pre draft, Brown was an awesome athlete but very very raw across his entire game. Simmons could have been playing in the NBA 18 months before he was drafted, even if it was from the bench.

[Bum Adebayo]

Yeah, I don't get this Simmons hate. Dude is not great at scoring the ball, but you know he will contribute everywhere else, you can't be disappointed in that.

[76ciology]

I dont “hate” or dislike Ben Simmons that I just want to get rid of him.

But I do acknowledge this team has far greater needs to make it deep in the playoffs. More than just “complimentary pieces”.

If I can get James Harden for expirings and second round picks, why wouldnt I want that?

Right now, I dont think there’s anyone available for a trade in the archetype of the player we want. So I dont mind treading water trying our best with what we have right now. Then be smart in accumulating and not wasting assets, then just be ready to pounce when there’s an opportunity.

Kind of like how Celtics do their thing.

You are missing a very important point, which I stressed over and over many times, which is player development.
As well as Embiid is playing, this is not the only year he’s going to play like an MVP, there’s going to be a 3-4 year window for us, at this current pace to be winning a championship. it is about all things clicking, you can’t force it by making trades all over the place, team chemistry and player development is utmost important.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Our player development/Player evaluation is arguably the worst in the league.

Take it for granted but Ingram/Brown have improved a lot more then Ben. But for the 76ers I’d have to be forced to take Ben because there’s zero chance we could develop either Brown/Ingram under the tenure of colagelo/coach brown era. No young player has developed under that reign. (Embiid is a savant, and Ben well Ben reached his apex along time ago.)

Brown and Ingram have chip on their shoulder.

Player development is most of the time based on the will or background of the player.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

I think we're creating our own identity and trend with Simmons. He's a unique player and a lot of people can't handle that. It freaks them out. The thing is, is that every team that wins a ring is unique and has unique one of a kind players. They go against the trends of all the other copycat teams and they create their own.

Every team that wins a ring also has atleast one elite shot creator from the perimeter, let’s not forget about that either. So no, it’s not that people can’t handle Ben’s “uniqueness”, it’s about the fact that people know what it takes to win a championship and the Sixers likely aren’t getting there without it.

So yeah, enjoy the wins now. Be as different as you want. Thats cool n all, but it’s likely that won’t be enough when it’s money time...you saw what happened to the Bucks the past two years after whooping everybody in the regular season.

If the Sixers get bounced out again because they can’t compete offensively and Ben is scoring 12ppg, nobody will want to hear about him being unique...and rightfully so. I guess we just have to see what happens.

My gosh, I must have really struck a nerve with you. From the way this reads, you're being borderline crotchety about my opinion. In fact, you're just downright negative. Have a good day dude...I hope things get better for you. Try to just enjoy life a little, enjoy Embiid while you can, same with Simmons. It's gonna be alright. Sheesh. All I said was I think we're creating our own identity. I'm sorry that I support that and you don't. No need to be all snotty about it lol. Here, let me find the ignore button, I can see you're the type to get ugly quick.

[76ciology]

Yeah, I don't get this Simmons hate. Dude is not great at scoring the ball, but you know he will contribute everywhere else, you can't be disappointed in that.

It’s just a cycle.
Step 1: after a loss, fans realize our team has a big hole to fill in order to be a champion
Step 2: create a trade proposal involving ben
Step 3: “but ben is special”
Step 4: “we need different kind of special”
Step 5: why do you hate ben?
..Silence then repeat step 1.

There’s no hate.

I think we all just have different standards and beliefs.

Some are old, and wants to win a championship before the next pandemic. “Trade for Kyle Lowry Now!”

Some believe you can win with this team, and some minor tweaks.

Some are young and can wait 10 more years for Ben to develop. Maybe they haven’t has much experience to see how much incoming talent there is every year.

Im not as old as some here, but I believe that you have to have no sentimental value to any talent. Unless you have an all time great talent like Steph Curry or Embiid, and if you fail, there’s an ABUNDANT pool of talent to make up for it.

Think about the process. We wasted a lot of talents like Noel, MCW or Okafor. But along the way, guys like Christian Wood or Jerami Grant were even part of this team.

Wood can replace both our ex-lottery pick centers. Jerami Grant can replace Ben and I dont expect us to drop that much on defense.

If you are skilled, it’s easy to be successful now in this league. Just think about Doncic. He’s about to be the best player in the league and he has sub par athleticism and average length for a wing.

Dont worry in failing. Fail then get back up again. Who cares. But worry that you are wasting time in not trying to get better.

[HotelVitale]

Our player development/Player evaluation is arguably the worst in the league.

Take it for granted but Ingram/Brown have improved a lot more then Ben. But for the 76ers I’d have to be forced to take Ben because there’s zero chance we could develop either Brown/Ingram under the tenure of colagelo/coach brown era. No young player has developed under that reign. (Embiid is a savant, and Ben well Ben reached his apex along time ago.)

Brown and Ingram have chip on their shoulder.

Player development is most of the time based on the will or background of the player.

Can’t help but say that imo there is nothing worse about realgm than people judging player development by results alone. Maybe 10% of development comes down to alpha attitudes or whatever, the vast vast majority of it is simply about what your body/mind can adapt itself to do in real nba games at full nba speed. Everyone goes through the same practices, drills, private coaching regimens, etc and almost all players work very very hard at their games. A player like J Brown isn’t working any harder than someone like Luwawu, his body was just able to start doing things like hitting shots on the move and in small spaces at a tremendous rate while Luwawu’s didn’t. Top prospects usually have better abilities and much better athletic/skill packages but most of development is just up to that pretty unknowable thing of ‘can they learn to do really really hard things in real games?’ Look no further than Shake for someone who had an okay handle and shot but also developed a bunch of crazy abilities to finish in tight spaces, on the go, etc. It’s not because of a special coach or some kind of magic advice he got, he just had the ability/potential and practice and reps actualized it.

[Negrodamus]

Our player eval is actually top notch, now and historically. Top notch, even with notable whiffs. Look at the players we have now and others we've had who are in the league. Simmons has an extreme flaw in his game and was coming off a very high floor when he came into the league compared to Brown and Ingram. Ingram was sub 200 lbs pre draft, Brown was an awesome athlete but very very raw across his entire game. Simmons could have been playing in the NBA 18 months before he was drafted, even if it was from the bench.

Have to say, I completely missed on Jaylen Brown being as good as he is.

[PLO]

Our player eval is actually top notch, now and historically. Top notch, even with notable whiffs. Look at the players we have now and others we've had who are in the league. Simmons has an extreme flaw in his game and was coming off a very high floor when he came into the league compared to Brown and Ingram. Ingram was sub 200 lbs pre draft, Brown was an awesome athlete but very very raw across his entire game. Simmons could have been playing in the NBA 18 months before he was drafted, even if it was from the bench.

Have to say, I completely missed on Jaylen Brown being as good as he is.

Anyone who missed on Brown is very understandable because his progression is largely down to his own IQ/mentality, which you can't measure visually from college. Which is to say, your exemplary scouting chops are intact (I see Jaylen N is beasting it up lately).

[Negrodamus]

Our player eval is actually top notch, now and historically. Top notch, even with notable whiffs. Look at the players we have now and others we've had who are in the league. Simmons has an extreme flaw in his game and was coming off a very high floor when he came into the league compared to Brown and Ingram. Ingram was sub 200 lbs pre draft, Brown was an awesome athlete but very very raw across his entire game. Simmons could have been playing in the NBA 18 months before he was drafted, even if it was from the bench.

Have to say, I completely missed on Jaylen Brown being as good as he is.

Anyone who missed on Brown is very understandable because his progression is largely down to his own IQ/mentality, which you can't measure visually from college. Which is to say, your exemplary scouting chops are intact (I see Jaylen N is beasting it up lately).

For sure, the intangibility and mental makeup are impossible for us to gauge. He obviously had the tools to be great, but just didn't show them off at Cal. That's why guys like him are hard to really evaluate: one year at their school, elite size and length for their position, ball handling chops... I'm fine with those misses because sometimes you get stuck with Stanley Johnson with the 8th pick. But it's the same reason why I'm not taking Anthony Edwards with the 1st pick. He definitely has the skills to eventually be a good player in the NBA, but I wouldn't want to risk that with a top 3 pick. Falls outside of my comfort zone for a prospect.

But yea, Jaylen Nowell is having some nice games. That stroke is definitely translating to the NBA when he gets some time.

[HotelVitale]

Have to say, I completely missed on Jaylen Brown being as good as he is.

Anyone who missed on Brown is very understandable because his progression is largely down to his own IQ/mentality, which you can't measure visually from college. Which is to say, your exemplary scouting chops are intact (I see Jaylen N is beasting it up lately).

For sure, the intangibility and mental makeup are impossible for us to gauge. He obviously had the tools to be great, but just didn't show them off at Cal. That's why guys like him are hard to really evaluate: one year at their school, elite size and length for their position, ball handling chops... I'm fine with those misses because sometimes you get stuck with Stanley Johnson with the 8th pick. But it's the same reason why I'm not taking Anthony Edwards with the 1st pick. He definitely has the skills to eventually be a good player in the NBA, but I wouldn't want to risk that with a top 3 pick. Falls outside of my comfort zone for a prospect..

Agree with Edwards, but I don't think Jaylen Brown's success is solely his IQ/mentality--he's also just become a much much better shooter than he was in college and totally mastered taking and making attempts while going full speed, half speed, and in between. You can be a very smart and focused player and not be able to go from weak shooter to excellent one in a couple years, and not develop masterful touch on the go while still on your rookie deal. He's had one of those unusual, Kawhi-like leaps from nice athlete with passable form to master of all jumpers and touch-shots, and that's something rare that should be recognized and celebrated rather than taken as 'just what every guy with a good head on his shoulders can do.' Always annoyed that people on realgm see failing to make the league as a moral failure or something, instead of seeing success in the league as a serious triumph.

[Bum Adebayo]

Yeah, there is definitely no such thing as low work ethic in the NBA, all players work bery bery hard, it is all about talent guys.

[Skates]

I simply don't get the intense devotion to the narrative that we must give up Simmons to gain another good player. Yes, teams will ask for him, but no established player of Simmons' age and quality went out in the David, Harden or second Paul Gorge trade, even the first PG13 trade, Oladipo was not developed offensively yet. The Raps gave up Derozan for Kawhi, and while still near the top of his all star form, his player archetype was not in league vogue and he was near his decline stage.

We have enough tradable contracts, young guys on good contracts and draft picks to add someone to our current big three, hell, we did it once before and were four bounces of Kawhi's shot to possibly going further that year, then effed it up that summer. It isn't who can we trade Simmons for, it is who can we get to put alongside Simmons, Embiid and Tobi.

[ivysixer2000]

I simply don't get the intense devotion to the narrative that we must give up Simmons to gain another good player. Yes, teams will ask for him, but no established player of Simmons' age and quality went out in the David, Harden or second Paul Gorge trade, even the first PG13 trade, Oladipo was not developed offensively yet. The Raps gave up Derozan for Kawhi, and while still near the top of his all star form, his player archetype was not in league vogue and he was near his decline stage.

We have enough tradable contracts, young guys on good contracts and draft picks to add someone to our current big three, hell, we did it once before and were four bounces of Kawhi's shot to possibly going further that year, then effed it up that summer. It isn't who can we trade Simmons for, it is who can we get to put alongside Simmons, Embiid and Tobi.

Be nice if we could concentrate on that instead of all the crazy trades that can possibly be thought of after a few drinks.

Just be patient and wait on the next star that decides he wants out. Don't go begging for someone, then you will end up with a horrible deal wishing you could take it back. We haven't even mentioned wanting a 4 in a trade, always Beal, Lavine, and such...yet we always talk about trading Ben or Tobais.

Upgrading us at the 2 when we would totally suck at the 4 in the process.....makes no progress at all.

[DCasey91]

I simply don't get the intense devotion to the narrative that we must give up Simmons to gain another good player. Yes, teams will ask for him, but no established player of Simmons' age and quality went out in the David, Harden or second Paul Gorge trade, even the first PG13 trade, Oladipo was not developed offensively yet. The Raps gave up Derozan for Kawhi, and while still near the top of his all star form, his player archetype was not in league vogue and he was near his decline stage.

We have enough tradable contracts, young guys on good contracts and draft picks to add someone to our current big three, hell, we did it once before and were four bounces of Kawhi's shot to possibly going further that year, then effed it up that summer. It isn't who can we trade Simmons for, it is who can we get to put alongside Simmons, Embiid and Tobi.

Be nice if we could concentrate on that instead of all the crazy trades that can possibly be thought of after a few drinks.

Just be patient and wait on the next star that decides he wants out. Don't go begging for someone, then you will end up with a horrible deal wishing you could take it back. We haven't even mentioned wanting a 4 in a trade, always Beal, Lavine, and such...yet we always talk about trading Ben or Tobais.

Upgrading us at the 2 when we would totally suck at the 4 in the process.....makes no progress at all.

Ben’s perfect position in fact the position he’s played all his life before going to the NBA was the 4. (He’s an all nba/all star lvl Elite defender + Playmaking PF/Wing). That’s where I see him excel at. One hook or floater that’s solidified as his go to move is 18/8/8 territory.
Or something like 16/8/8 in the Playoffs (elite third best player on the team.)

That’s my realistic expectation from Ben. Not a scorer or some gun 3 lvl shot creator attached on. Not his game at all

And if we can trade Harris for the ideal 2 position player that fits with Embiid/Simmons now we’re talking. Slide Ben to the 3/4 (his correct position) and things will be great.

I know it’s hindsight but Embiid/Butler/Simmons and co. Was the ideal setup moving forward. (I know butler isn’t the perfect shooter but what he does more than makes up for our half court problems). He was always going to Miami, Lavine/Beal/Oladipo or potential young players is what the 76ers should be looking at now.

If you truely want to hang onto Ben, okay Lavine/oladipo fits that mold (booker too but that’s the same proposition with Beal).

Either that or you develop/grab one from another team earlier than expected.

So Maxey/Milton. If we sit tight one of them has to make the big jump in the coming years. Do you bank on that?

or a young player from another team that has the potential too in the next couple of years to get to an all star/all nba threat on the outside.

Highest priority comes first then other complimentary exchanges come later.

What to do with Harris’s contract?
Too much depth at the sg/wing position, who has that potential to pair with Embiid/Simmons long term?
Do we move Ben for something that’s a better fit with our best player and roll with Embiid/???/Harris?.

For me I like Ben way way more than Harris as the 3rd best player on our team.

For Beal - Ben is gone

Lavine/Oladipo - is there possibility of holding onto Ben? Maxey/Milton could be very enticing.

I honestly can’t see many other ideal options for us at the 2 position looking on the outside.

Lavine + Simmons backcourt is a very complimentary to each other to go along with Embiid. The upside is very high.

Harris’s value is high as it’s ever going to be now of there was ever a time to get something of value maybe just maybe there’s a chance.

(I was super high on the Markannen/Harris swap. Markannen was super undervalued, didn’t get an extension and isn’t a 2 but a stretch 4 but the flexibility moving forward would have been massive for us in years to come and also having a value trade piece if needed as well, best of both worlds).

I could be 100% wrong and Harris’s contract is immovable for our stud 2 position. Then okay the proposition of role players/lower scaled contracts from productive players could be on the cards too.

This isn’t trading for trading sake. In my eyes it’s for the team to gets it’s ideal core moving forward.