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Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?)

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Re: Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?) 

Post#1681 » by 76ciology » Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:14 am

Stanford wrote:Beal would be a disaster. On top of being a loser, he plays less games than Embiid and his 3PAr has been hovering around .260 for three years. He shoots less threes than Tobias. And his contract sucks.


i agree.

Beal is a reg season stat padder. a different flavor of dejounte murray type player. Fools everyone with reg season stat. Skillset is for mediocre team and reg season. but shows no evidence of being good on high pressured games or in playoff situations.

I’d rather take my chances on Jordan Poole. 2021-2022 Poole was good, he also can shoot 3s better than Beal. And I can probably get Kuminga or Moody back as sweetener in a Tobias trade. And i dont need to give up maxey.

That was in context of Beal vs Poole, so dont overreact. I still think Derozan is the best candidate for now.
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Re: Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?) 

Post#1682 » by 76ciology » Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:25 am

Btw, how do you guys think Biid should change his game.

To start, I think he should be a better three point shooter. That would empower everyone.



I always feel like our team’s offense looks a lot better if biid is knocking those 3s. It also frees up lane for Maxey for drives.

It will also free up guys like Maxey or Harden to be an initial creator, allowing us to have more movement and pace to our offense. Adding more dimension to our offense, where we can still run some slow paced 2 man game if we’re effective with it.
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Re: Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?) 

Post#1683 » by 76ciology » Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:28 am

Read on Twitter


Look at how many allstar players Giannis and Jokic has to play with to win a championship
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Re: Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?) 

Post#1684 » by 76ciology » Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:47 am

Giannis in 2019: won mvp; no ring
Giannis in 2020: won mvp; no ring
Giannis in 2021: no mvp; won ring
Jokic in 2021: won mvp; no ring
Jokic in 2022: won mvp; no ring
Jokic in 2023: no mvp; won ring
Embiid in 2023: won mvp; no ring
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Re: Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?) 

Post#1685 » by Mik317 » Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:48 am

Giannis literally has 3 all stars on his roster lol and if former Al stars doesn’t count then neither did Biid this year lol

Murray so screwed because he plays out west where there are a bunch of guards but he is an all star level guy. Gordon also had some all star buzz this year. We aren’t going to act like Denver is a one man band team lol
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Re: Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?) 

Post#1686 » by 76ciology » Tue Jun 13, 2023 5:12 am

Mik317 wrote:Giannis literally has 3 all stars on his roster lol and if former Al stars doesn’t count then neither did Biid this year lol

Murray so screwed because he plays out west where there are a bunch of guards but he is an all star level guy. Gordon also had some all star buzz this year. We aren’t going to act like Denver is a one man band team lol


4.0 BPM and above = allstar consideration
https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/bpm2.html

Regseason
Jrue 3
Middleton 1
Brolo 0

Playoffs
Jrue 2
Middleton 2
Brolo 2

Closest was Jrue and his numbers say he’s just a borderline star.
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Re: Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?) 

Post#1687 » by LeonJordanJr24 » Tue Jun 13, 2023 5:31 am

Enough is enough. We already had two playoff runs with harden and it was unsuccessful so we gotta move on. Also we had Tobias for 6-7 years now it's time to move on.
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Re: Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?) 

Post#1688 » by 76ciology » Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:19 am

LeonJordanJr24 wrote:Enough is enough. We already had two playoff runs with harden and it was unsuccessful so we gotta move on. Also we had Tobias for 6-7 years now it's time to move on.


Ok sir. Whats your plan then?
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Re: Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?) 

Post#1689 » by Jay555 » Tue Jun 13, 2023 7:47 am

LeonJordanJr24 wrote:Enough is enough. We already had two playoff runs with harden and it was unsuccessful so we gotta move on. Also we had Tobias for 6-7 years now it's time to move on.


And how many playoff runs did we have with Embiid? Lol
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Re: Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?) 

Post#1690 » by M2J » Tue Jun 13, 2023 8:06 am

76ciology wrote:
mjkvol wrote:
76ciology wrote:There’s a video in youtube that got me thinking about Embiid.

Basically he said how the biggest problem on Embiid on Sixers offense is how it takes a lot of time to set him up then he would survey the court. With surveying the court he would read where his teammates are and where the defense is. Then he would do his move.

The problem is against good teams. Specially in a 7 game series. Teams eventually can figure him out on defense and what his tendencies are. In the moment he surveys the court, the defense also surveys the sixers offense. Where is he likely to kick it out and how they are going to rotate on defense. There’s no “scrambling” on defense moment because everyone knows where to rotate. And whats worse is with all of these action, time is on the defense side and not on Sixers side.

And this is one of the biggest reason why Biid has a hard time on playoffs than reg season. In the reg season, defense is vanilla. Bad teams with not enough familiarity. In the playoffs, mostly good teams and teams eventually has a better read on Sixers and Embiid, and when that moment comes Sixers are in a handicap on offense despite whatever edge we have on talent.


This is where Nurse's effect on what we do offensively is going to be critical, because as a coach who has schemed against Embiid in multiple playoff series, he knows these things as well as anyone.

We ran as unimaginative a scheme, with little adjustment, as could be imagined, as Rivers was content to keep Embiid as the focal point come hell or high water. As you alluded to it was easy to defend once good defenses locked in on Embiid's tendencies.

I would hope that part of Nurse's message to Harden would be that he would be playing much more of a Jamal Murray role in the offense as primarily a scorer as well as distributor. The second part of the equation would be selling Embiid on more of a Joker-esque role but utilizing his own strengths as a finisher against mismatches created by P&R and ball movement. It's still going to come down to improving his decision making, and I can't help but think Nurse will be heavily addressing that.


It was the same problem with Brett back then. I think Biid is just poor and slow at reading and analyzing situations and poor at handling the ball. So he needs space and he needs time to read the situation slower than geniuses like Jokic or LeBron. The guys also couldn’t move because Biid wont be able to locate them so they just stand still

So if you run a Jojo centric offense. The offense has to be very simplified and vanilla plus the pace should be slow. If you do that then its an environment where defense is empowered.

Then for sure you can take risk and experiment, but its quite a boom or bust. But sample size say its likely going to bust for we’ve seen how Biid plays and we have a large sample size that says coaches also feels that they need to simplify the offense and slow the pace for Biid. Then again, im not saying in definite, maybe Nurse can turn it around.


Iso heavy offenses still require proper motion to function properly. There's, generic action around the iso, which we saw last season, that won't really be a part of the offense and there's systematic action that you're describing with Joker. Their offense is essentially him pulling the center away from the basket, and intentional cutting or ducking in with a mismatch with a guy like Gordon.

I think a proper offense for this team would be more action off the ball with your stars or off of a Harden ISO, because you know he's not working off the ball. Different ways to duck Joel into the post off of a screener, or pulling up off screens mid range, with Maxey being active on the opposite end of the floor

But the Bulls and Lakers utilized heavy iso offense with deliberate motion built in. Spurs were always deliberate with it, Celtics with Rivers had Ray Allen doing his thing. Heat inserted a motion offense with the big 3 and their version helped Jimmy Butler take a leap. Warriors of course under Kerr.
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Re: Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?) 

Post#1691 » by mjkvol » Tue Jun 13, 2023 10:48 am

76ciology wrote:
mjkvol wrote:
76ciology wrote:There’s a video in youtube that got me thinking about Embiid.

Basically he said how the biggest problem on Embiid on Sixers offense is how it takes a lot of time to set him up then he would survey the court. With surveying the court he would read where his teammates are and where the defense is. Then he would do his move.

The problem is against good teams. Specially in a 7 game series. Teams eventually can figure him out on defense and what his tendencies are. In the moment he surveys the court, the defense also surveys the sixers offense. Where is he likely to kick it out and how they are going to rotate on defense. There’s no “scrambling” on defense moment because everyone knows where to rotate. And whats worse is with all of these action, time is on the defense side and not on Sixers side.

And this is one of the biggest reason why Biid has a hard time on playoffs than reg season. In the reg season, defense is vanilla. Bad teams with not enough familiarity. In the playoffs, mostly good teams and teams eventually has a better read on Sixers and Embiid, and when that moment comes Sixers are in a handicap on offense despite whatever edge we have on talent.


This is where Nurse's effect on what we do offensively is going to be critical, because as a coach who has schemed against Embiid in multiple playoff series, he knows these things as well as anyone.

We ran as unimaginative a scheme, with little adjustment, as could be imagined, as Rivers was content to keep Embiid as the focal point come hell or high water. As you alluded to it was easy to defend once good defenses locked in on Embiid's tendencies.

I would hope that part of Nurse's message to Harden would be that he would be playing much more of a Jamal Murray role in the offense as primarily a scorer as well as distributor. The second part of the equation would be selling Embiid on more of a Joker-esque role but utilizing his own strengths as a finisher against mismatches created by P&R and ball movement. It's still going to come down to improving his decision making, and I can't help but think Nurse will be heavily addressing that.


It was the same problem with Brett back then. I think Biid is just poor and slow at reading and analyzing situations and poor at handling the ball. So he needs space and he needs time to read the situation slower than geniuses like Jokic or LeBron. The guys also couldn’t move because Biid wont be able to locate them so they just stand still

So if you run a Jojo centric offense. The offense has to be very simplified and vanilla plus the pace should be slow. If you do that then its an environment where defense is empowered.

Then for sure you can take risk and experiment, but its quite a boom or bust. But sample size say its likely going to bust for we’ve seen how Biid plays and we have a large sample size that says coaches also feels that they need to simplify the offense and slow the pace for Biid. Then again, im not saying in definite, maybe Nurse can turn it around.


Well, it's pretty simple. If Nurse isn't able to change the Embiid-centric focus of the offense to some degree and improve his decision making at least to a degree then nothing is really going to change here.

We have to hope that Jokic's play in the playoffs sends a message to Embiid that working on his 'bag' shouldn't be his emphasis, but better footwork, decision making, passing, conditioning, and a focus on being DPOY will go a lot further toward team success here than averaging 33 pts. a game. His target stat line should be something like 25-14-5-3.
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Re: Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?) 

Post#1692 » by mjkvol » Tue Jun 13, 2023 10:51 am

76ciology wrote:Btw, how do you guys think Biid should change his game.

To start, I think he should be a better three point shooter. That would empower everyone.



I always feel like our team’s offense looks a lot better if biid is knocking those 3s. It also frees up lane for Maxey for drives.

It will also free up guys like Maxey or Harden to be an initial creator, allowing us to have more movement and pace to our offense. Adding more dimension to our offense, where we can still run some slow paced 2 man game if we’re effective with it.


I'm not a fan of Embiid hanging around the 3-pt. line, I'd much rather he be a monster on the offensive glass. We don't need more offense from him, we need more 'little' things that win big games.
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Re: Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?) 

Post#1693 » by mjkvol » Tue Jun 13, 2023 10:58 am

M2J wrote:
76ciology wrote:
mjkvol wrote:
This is where Nurse's effect on what we do offensively is going to be critical, because as a coach who has schemed against Embiid in multiple playoff series, he knows these things as well as anyone.

We ran as unimaginative a scheme, with little adjustment, as could be imagined, as Rivers was content to keep Embiid as the focal point come hell or high water. As you alluded to it was easy to defend once good defenses locked in on Embiid's tendencies.

I would hope that part of Nurse's message to Harden would be that he would be playing much more of a Jamal Murray role in the offense as primarily a scorer as well as distributor. The second part of the equation would be selling Embiid on more of a Joker-esque role but utilizing his own strengths as a finisher against mismatches created by P&R and ball movement. It's still going to come down to improving his decision making, and I can't help but think Nurse will be heavily addressing that.


It was the same problem with Brett back then. I think Biid is just poor and slow at reading and analyzing situations and poor at handling the ball. So he needs space and he needs time to read the situation slower than geniuses like Jokic or LeBron. The guys also couldn’t move because Biid wont be able to locate them so they just stand still

So if you run a Jojo centric offense. The offense has to be very simplified and vanilla plus the pace should be slow. If you do that then its an environment where defense is empowered.

Then for sure you can take risk and experiment, but its quite a boom or bust. But sample size say its likely going to bust for we’ve seen how Biid plays and we have a large sample size that says coaches also feels that they need to simplify the offense and slow the pace for Biid. Then again, im not saying in definite, maybe Nurse can turn it around.


Iso heavy offenses still require proper motion to function properly. There's, generic action around the iso, which we saw last season, that won't really be a part of the offense and there's systematic action that you're describing with Joker. Their offense is essentially him pulling the center away from the basket, and intentional cutting or ducking in with a mismatch with a guy like Gordon.

I think a proper offense for this team would be more action off the ball with your stars or off of a Harden ISO, because you know he's not working off the ball. Different ways to duck Joel into the post off of a screener, or pulling up off screens mid range, with Maxey being active on the opposite end of the floor

But the Bulls and Lakers utilized heavy iso offense with deliberate motion built in. Spurs were always deliberate with it, Celtics with Rivers had Ray Allen doing his thing. Heat inserted a motion offense with the big 3 and their version helped Jimmy Butler take a leap. Warriors of course under Kerr.


I'd love for Nurse to emphasize screens to get Embiid the kinds of mismatches that Jokic had throughout the finals, and from there utilize cutters. The success of these kinds of actions will obviously require better decision making by Embiid, but I see no reason he can't be as good a passer as Adebayo.
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Re: Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?) 

Post#1694 » by Mik317 » Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:48 pm

how the hell is Beal only 29 lol.

wtf
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Re: Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?) 

Post#1695 » by the_process » Tue Jun 13, 2023 1:05 pm

76ciology wrote:
Stanford wrote:Beal would be a disaster. On top of being a loser, he plays less games than Embiid and his 3PAr has been hovering around .260 for three years. He shoots less threes than Tobias. And his contract sucks.


i agree.

Beal is a reg season stat padder. a different flavor of dejounte murray type player. Fools everyone with reg season stat. Skillset is for mediocre team and reg season. but shows no evidence of being good on high pressured games or in playoff situations.

I’d rather take my chances on Jordan Poole. 2021-2022 Poole was good, he also can shoot 3s better than Beal. And I can probably get Kuminga or Moody back as sweetener in a Tobias trade. And i dont need to give up maxey.

That was in context of Beal vs Poole, so dont overreact. I still think Derozan is the best candidate for now.


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Re: Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?) 

Post#1696 » by ProcessDoctor » Tue Jun 13, 2023 1:38 pm

If we did Harris + pick for Beal, then we trade Melton for a similarly-priced forward...

Harden/Maxey/McClung
Beal/Springer/Korkmaz
(Trade)/McDaniel/House
Tucker/Niang/(project)
Embiid/Reed/Harrell

Not sure how we'd pay Maxey next summer though.

Edit: Also, I finally got around to the Simmons audio clip. He did not include Maxey, and it was only Harris + picks for Beal. He also threw out the TPE for Beal idea if Harden goes to Houston and we get the $47 mil TPE in return. We'd keep Harris in that scenario.
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Edgecombe/Grimes/Gordon
George/Oubre/Edwards
Barlow/Watford/Walker
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Re: Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?) 

Post#1697 » by 76ciology » Tue Jun 13, 2023 1:57 pm

the_process wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Stanford wrote:Beal would be a disaster. On top of being a loser, he plays less games than Embiid and his 3PAr has been hovering around .260 for three years. He shoots less threes than Tobias. And his contract sucks.


i agree.

Beal is a reg season stat padder. a different flavor of dejounte murray type player. Fools everyone with reg season stat. Skillset is for mediocre team and reg season. but shows no evidence of being good on high pressured games or in playoff situations.

I’d rather take my chances on Jordan Poole. 2021-2022 Poole was good, he also can shoot 3s better than Beal. And I can probably get Kuminga or Moody back as sweetener in a Tobias trade. And i dont need to give up maxey.

That was in context of Beal vs Poole, so dont overreact. I still think Derozan is the best candidate for now.


DDR is the ultimate regular season player.


Jokic will never win a championship because you can’t win with a bad defense center.
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Re: Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?) 

Post#1698 » by 76ciology » Tue Jun 13, 2023 1:59 pm

mjkvol wrote:
76ciology wrote:Btw, how do you guys think Biid should change his game.

To start, I think he should be a better three point shooter. That would empower everyone.



I always feel like our team’s offense looks a lot better if biid is knocking those 3s. It also frees up lane for Maxey for drives.

It will also free up guys like Maxey or Harden to be an initial creator, allowing us to have more movement and pace to our offense. Adding more dimension to our offense, where we can still run some slow paced 2 man game if we’re effective with it.


I'm not a fan of Embiid hanging around the 3-pt. line, I'd much rather he be a monster on the offensive glass. We don't need more offense from him, we need more 'little' things that win big games.


Both of us can be right. Embiid can be both.
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Re: Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?) 

Post#1699 » by mksp » Tue Jun 13, 2023 2:06 pm

ProcessDoctor wrote:If we did Harris + pick for Beal, then we trade Melton for a similarly-priced forward...

Harden/Maxey/McClung
Beal/Springer/Korkmaz
(Trade)/McDaniel/House
Tucker/Niang/(project)
Embiid/Reed/Harrell

Not sure how we'd pay Maxey next summer though.


So much loser energy on this team, has no chance of competing. Beal is a non-starter to me. Last kind of guy we need.
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Re: Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?) 

Post#1700 » by ProcessDoctor » Tue Jun 13, 2023 2:07 pm

mksp wrote:
ProcessDoctor wrote:If we did Harris + pick for Beal, then we trade Melton for a similarly-priced forward...

Harden/Maxey/McClung
Beal/Springer/Korkmaz
(Trade)/McDaniel/House
Tucker/Niang/(project)
Embiid/Reed/Harrell

Not sure how we'd pay Maxey next summer though.


So much loser energy on this team, has no chance of competing. Beal is a non-starter to me. Last kind of guy we need.


Do you take him over Tobias though?
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Edgecombe/Grimes/Gordon
George/Oubre/Edwards
Barlow/Watford/Walker
Embiid/Drummond/Bona/Broome

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