Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4

[rocketsfan100]

Just that. It’s considered a breech of contract and the Sixers could refuse to release him to free agency.


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It's ok to admit you don't really know something.

That isn't answering what I asked.

If the Sixers don't release him, then what?

Sixers keep him contracted for another year on the same salary?

If he fails to show up for 30 days next season, wash rinse repeat ? For ever?

James picked up the one year option on his contract. His contract expires when he gets credit for one year of service. If he never completes a season for the Sixers, he will continue to be under contract for them indefinitely, so yes he would be under contract for the next season at the same salary. In the new CBA, not reporting in the first 30 days of the opening of training camp could cause you to lose a year of service. I didn’t know that was left up to the team to decide, but perhaps so.

James will show up to camp, so I don’t think this is an issue. He will show up, disrupt practice, criticize the team, fake an injury, not cooperate with the medical team, and take a bunch of fines and one game suspensions for conduct detrimental to the team. I’m not sure if he could lose a year of service going this route, but I don’t know that he cares. As long as he knows he isn’t playing for the Sixers, then getting to free-agency isn’t his goal, getting traded is. And he is prob pretty confident either way that they will trade him before the deadline.

All he has to do is show up a few days so the cba clause can’t be used

[sixers hoops]

^The majority of the general board thinks i'm a nutcase for saying that, btw. Most people see it as absolutely inconceivable that Harden would ever give up $ if he didn't have a full guarantee about it. In particular everyone roasts me for the idea that Harden's motive could've been a combo of: 1) to prove himself to the world after a weak 2022, 2) to rehab his rep as a good guy who cared about winning, 3) to actually increase his chances of getting to a Finals and upping his legacy, and 4) to 'earn' a full 4/5-year max that the Sixers weren't interested in offering last summer. I know it's hard to convince someone of that, but it honestly tracks pretty well to me with what we know of Harden's personality.

I don’t think there was a specific guarantee, but I do think Harden only did this because he thought Morey would take care of him. It was a win-win in Harden’s mind until Morey didn’t show up with a big offer. He thought he would look unselfish, get his friends on the team, and have his GM owe him a solid leading into a contract year. One of the writer’s specifically said that Harden was disappointed in Morey’s lack of a max offer. He assumed Morey was giving him the usual max contract, so that $14 million he gave up wasn’t really a big deal.

I think the confusion could stem from Harden assuming he was clearly a max player, so he is interpreting his conversation with Morey from the lens of a guy who is obviously getting a max contract. For instance, if Morey, who clearly needs to be as-vague-as-possible in these backroom discussions, said we will take care of you next summer, James may have interpreted it as Morey confirming a max contract offer. Very easy for two guys to leave a room with different interpretations of a conversation, especially when they are both trying to maintain plausible deniability when it comes to potential tampering.

[sixers hoops]

It's ok to admit you don't really know something.

That isn't answering what I asked.

If the Sixers don't release him, then what?

Sixers keep him contracted for another year on the same salary?

If he fails to show up for 30 days next season, wash rinse repeat ? For ever?

James picked up the one year option on his contract. His contract expires when he gets credit for one year of service. If he never completes a season for the Sixers, he will continue to be under contract for them indefinitely, so yes he would be under contract for the next season at the same salary. In the new CBA, not reporting in the first 30 days of the opening of training camp could cause you to lose a year of service. I didn’t know that was left up to the team to decide, but perhaps so.

James will show up to camp, so I don’t think this is an issue. He will show up, disrupt practice, criticize the team, fake an injury, not cooperate with the medical team, and take a bunch of fines and one game suspensions for conduct detrimental to the team. I’m not sure if he could lose a year of service going this route, but I don’t know that he cares. As long as he knows he isn’t playing for the Sixers, then getting to free-agency isn’t his goal, getting traded is. And he is prob pretty confident either way that they will trade him before the deadline.

All he has to do is show up a few days so the cba clause can’t be used

Yeah. It’s kind of a non-issue. Players aren’t going to holdout and give up pay when they can just fake an injury and collect their salary. I see why they put the clause in there, but you don’t see many holdouts in the NBA. You just show up and make it so the team doesn’t want you there.

[NatiboyB]

I don’t give Harden credit for opting out to bring in his friends Tucker and House. He wouldn’t have done that for other players so to me this further shows how he is. Those same players he wanted to play with I guess he didn’t have an issue leaving them if he goes to the clippers.

[rocketsfan100]

I don’t give Harden credit for opting out to bring in his friends Tucker and House. He wouldn’t have done that for other players so to me this further shows how he is. Those same players he wanted to play with I guess he didn’t have an issue leaving them if he goes to the clippers.

Tucker by all reports will be added to any harden trade

[76thBearCub]

Just release his fat ass. Wer not getting anything worthwhile in a trade at this point.

[76thBearCub]

He can go falter in LA or be a hero in China, his choice!

[Jhawk03]

You guys finally lost me at Anna fuccing Horford. 20 years here and 30 years as a fan.

God bless!

[hookshot199]

You might be giving them too much credit. Especially Harden, since he has been pretty delusional about his situation these last few years. While at the same time, this tampering was clearly coordinated with his tampering of House and Tucker. He offered them contracts before they were free-agents based on money becoming available from his backroom agreement with Harden. The evidence is pretty clear that Stein reported weeks in advance that they offered PJ that contract, and they didn’t even have the cap space. Then to Morey’s luck, Harden becomes a great guy and opts out.

You are correct. I can’t say Morey “lied” because I don’t know the specifics of his conversation to get Harden to help him free-up cap space. I don’t think Morey offered Harden anything specific, but I think he told him he will make the money back in a new contract. That left Harden with expectations that blew up in Morey’s face. He made a backroom deal with Harden to free up cap space, and with Harden’s delusions of grandeur, his interpretation was he was getting rewarded handsomely for his sacrifice. Morey made a dumb play and this is the result.

I think I basically agree, I just don't think anything was said at all to the effect of 'we'll absolutely take take care of you down the line, don't worry about it.' There was no reason for the Sixers to say that and I think it would've come off as disingenuous at the time, since we were definitely not interested in a large+long contract last year either. I also just don't think it's Morey's style--which is more cold-blooded and direct about strategy--and it just doens't seem like the nature of Morey's negotiations. Best guess is that Morey was like 'James we obviously want you here and can't win without you' and Harden was like 'sick cuz I'm going to light the world on fire and you'll happily back up the truck next season.' (And the Tucker/House thing also seems like something that Harden would've been at least as interested in as Morey was.)

In the end I think both sides were banking heavily on things working out right--Morey on the team getting to the CF at least and Harden on bouncing back from a junk 2022--but I also think that Harden is likely to the one who initiated that, based on how self-aggrandizing he's been in general over the past 3-4 years.

I think it was an easily decision for Harden. He gets Tucker and House here, while looking like a great guy, but in reality he knows Morey will take care of him in the end. I don’t think Harden was initially worried at all. He has a long history of being his own agent since Morey just hands him max contracts without negotiating. In Harden’s mind, he is still that elite player, so Morey will just take care of it. After his discussion with Morey, Harden clearly was under the impression that Morey would reward him for helping the team.

Then as we got closer to Christmas, his team must’ve started to get concerned about his market not being competitive and the Sixers having the leverage to get tough with negotiations, so they leaked the Rockets nonsense. When Morey wouldn’t discuss a deal with him prior to the start of free-agency, it was at that moment he knew he was screwed. Morey wasn’t handing over a monster deal and Harden had no competitive offers.

Harden decided that he was screwed over by Morey, since Morey likely told him in uncertain terms that he will make the money back, but I highly doubt they discussed specific terms of an agreement. Nevertheless, Harden feels like he did Morey and the team a favor behind the scenes, then when it was time for his deal, he said Morey and the Sixers wouldn’t even communicate with him.

I’m sure whatever vague assertions, implications, nods-and-winks occurred between Morey and Harden, Harden left believing he would get his money back. They had such a long relationship, they didn’t feel the need to recklessly discuss specifics. At the end of the day, it was Harden with no offers and Morey avoiding communications with him. Their trusted relationship allowed for us to clear cap space, presumably at Morey suggestion. In Harden’s mind, when it was time for Morey to help him out, Morey put business ahead of their trusted relationship. I think Harden feels double-crossed by someone he viewed as a trusted friend who implied he would take care of him, and doesn’t even want to be around the guy he believes stabbed him in the back.

<<I don’t think Morey offered a specific contract, but I believe he gave James the impression that he would make his money back. I think that is enough for an angry Harden to call Morey a liar; however, I don’t know that I believe Morey technically lied.

The big "still don't know": Did Morey offer him a three-year deal? Or a three-year deal including one year team option? Or a two-year deal, one year team option? I suspect that Morey made no four-year deal offer. He couldn't after Harden's playoff collapse. I believe Harden overplayed his hand. Then the wild card happened. The Rockets hired Udoka. Harden's plan B disappeared. Truth is, I'd still be willing to offer Harden a two-year deal if he plays and has a good season. It won't happen. But I felt that he was worth three years/$120 mil plus some sweetener for PJ's salary. I would also enlist Harden's agent to make a deal with the Clippers - or someone else. Put the ball in his court.

[Warfelg]

https://x.com/thedunkcentral/status/1691911684003139617?s=46&t=xd5QJpZuXv2k7qD0xqd6aA


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[Stanford]

A max deal. Good lord.

[fkd215]

If Morey's choices were to give Harden a max deal, or incur all this BS, I still think this is the right choice for the franchise. That said, he has to limit the potential damage with regards to Embiid, so I don't think this is the time to dig in for the absolute best return and hold Harden well into the season. Until training amp starts, Harden can't do all that much damage. My hope is that he takes the best offer on the table by mid- late- September, and we move on from there.

[Arsenal]

Will Harden be subject to major sanctions for an under-the-table contract if he admits he thought he had one?

Did James Harden just admit to violating the CBA?

[Sixersftw]

Will Harden be subject to major sanctions for an under-the-table contract if he admits he thought he had one?

Did James Harden just admit to violating the CBA?

If Morey agreed to it? Nope. We would be penalized into the stone age ala the T-Wolves and the Joe Smith under-the-table contract. IIRC Smith had no sanctions imposed on him. Different CBA but I can't imagine the current CBA has any different rules.

[FireMorey]

Whatever misery he's going to cause acting out over the coming months isn't 1/100000 what misery would've been brought upon this franchise if they gave him a max deal. It would've been one of the worst decisions in Philly history. I think Morey blows, but have to credit him for standing firm on that one. He adores Harden, you know it would've been bad if even Morey refuses to pay the guy.

[sixers hoops]

Will Harden be subject to major sanctions for an under-the-table contract if he admits he thought he had one?

Did James Harden just admit to violating the CBA?

Joe Smith didn’t really get punished other than he lost a ton of money when the illegal deal was denied. The T-Wolves lost their picks and had their GM and, I believe, owner suspended.

If Harden were to admit that he and Morey entered into an illegal agreement for him to take less money last year in return for a specific contract guarantee this off-season, they both should be suspended and punished.

It is hard to get caught. In the Joe Smith case, the agents got the illegal agreement in writing. Then when the agents had a falling out, I believe one agent informed the league of the illegal agreement. I’m not sure the league disclosed its evidence that found Morey guilty of tampering. The league already investigated the Harden situation last summer and found no wrongdoing. Unless Harden has some concrete proof, it would be pretty difficult to find Morey guilty of an illegal agreement that never actually came to fruition.

[sixers hoops]

Whatever misery he's going to cause acting out over the coming months isn't 1/100000 what misery would've been brought upon this franchise if they gave him a max deal. It would've been one of the worst decisions in Philly history. I think Morey blows, but have to credit him for standing firm on that one. He adores Harden, you know it would've been bad if even Morey refuses to pay the guy.

Harden is a mess. I’m glad we escape a long term deal with him. And while he could have not opted-in and left us with nothing, I still would like to get some value for him.

[Arsenal]

Will Harden be subject to major sanctions for an under-the-table contract if he admits he thought he had one?

Did James Harden just admit to violating the CBA?

If Morey agreed to it? Nope. We would be penalized into the stone age ala the T-Wolves and the Joe Smith under-the-table contract. IIRC Smith had no sanctions imposed on him. Different CBA but I can't imagine the current CBA has any different rules.

Morey has never admitted to any under-the-table deal. Harden apparently just did.

That makes Harden guilty. But Morey is not guilty unless they find evidence against him.

[Skates]

Harden had an agreement to get a max deal, yet spent months and months last season and early summer floating return to Houston rumors as a leverage play? Those two things make no sense together.

[FireMorey]

Whatever misery he's going to cause acting out over the coming months isn't 1/100000 what misery would've been brought upon this franchise if they gave him a max deal. It would've been one of the worst decisions in Philly history. I think Morey blows, but have to credit him for standing firm on that one. He adores Harden, you know it would've been bad if even Morey refuses to pay the guy.

Harden is a mess. I’m glad we escape a long term deal with him. And while he could have not opted-in and left us with nothing, I still would like to get some value for him.

It’ll probably require an injury to a contending team. They’ll panic and pursue Harden if one of them loses a top guard to injury.