Where is Nerlens?

[Arsenal]

Yeah, it makes no sense to let Noel walk over money when we are struggling to even meet the minimum every year and have a super clean cap for years to come. Even if we want to sign other free agents, we should still match any Noel offer. Then if needed, trade him in the future.

[tk76]

The starter thing seems easy enough to overcome. 4 minutes starting the 1st and 3rd qtr and then the 16 minutes that Embiid is not on the floor. The bigger issue is end of games, where Noel would either be on the bench or on a offense-defense rotation.

Also, what is the worst case scenario or matching... That somewhere down the road you have to give him away plus made a small sweetener? That seems like a small risk given the cost of losing a valuable player for nothing.

[Sixerscan]

Simmons and Dario have 3 years left on their rookie deals.
2017 picks have 4

Not even counting Embiid (or Covington or Stauskas or Holmes or Okafor), half you rotation will be on rookie deals for at least the next 3 years. I know people don't want to spend starter level money for backups... I'm just not sure how you get to $110-120 million without doing that though. Having all of these guys on rookie deals allows you to overpay other people to fill out your roster, whether it's Noel or someone else. Any 4 year contract signed this summer would only have one year left by the time Simmons became a free agent.

[Ericb5]

We have more cap space than any team in the league. We could match any offer for Noel. But should we, if a team signs him to a max offer sheet?

Now, the downside is that there is almost zero FA rim protecting centers like Noel (maybe ibaka if he's considered a center?). This works against us.

Fortunately, there are very few teams that have either a) the resources and b) the need for someone like Noel:

My list is 3 teams, but really only one.

1. Rockets: rockets can afford noel...hed fit great in their system. But they have capella who is their Noel. He makes nothing though, so they may want to take a swing at Noel. I still dont think they go max money for noel, however, with clint in fold.

2. Mavs: bogut will be gone. They need a center. Dirk will be gone. Still, i dont see dallas when they have so much money tied to barnes and mathews. But they could.

And then finally,

3. Celtics. They have a ton of cap space and a huge need for a rim protecting center. This one scares me to death. They could easily force our hand.

If, somehow, we were able to make the celtics not need a center, than the price would be much lower.

Solution: we trade okafor to boston for a deal they cant refuse.... maybe a protected future first round pick.... if boston is out of the noel running, we could keep noel on a 4 yr/12-15 mill a year contract, give embiid his max next year...
And then have cap room to play around while simmons remains on his rookie deal.

Don't count on that. The cap goes up again this offseason. Brooklyn has more cap space than the 76ers, I believe. If Noel settles down and plays near what he's done his 1st 2 years, he will get Bizmack money from somebody. That's 18 per, for 4 years. Not only that, a team can sign him to a Crabbe-like contract that includes a trade kicker. So if Noel gets a 4 year 80 million dollar offer sheet, that includes a 15% trade kicker, that would take him up to 23 million per if traded. That may be distasteful to the 76ers since he will be a backup, and their ultimate goal may be to sign him and eventually use him as an asset to trade.

How do you know he's going to be a backup? Just because Brown can't see the possibilities of ways to integrate them doesn't mean that a more skilled coach won't. Your role model for Noel should be Marcus Camby. Do you think that Camby in his prime couldn't have played alongside an Olajuwon or Patrick Ewing in his prime?

Camby was a way more talented player offensively than Noel is. Noel is as devoid of offensive ability as Ben Wallace was. He can't do anything other than tip backs, and lobs. Anything beyond that is not worth trying to encourage.




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[Ericb5]

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20161226_Noel_or_Okafor__Trade_scenarios_for_each.html?mobi=true

You have to love Pompey. An Article about trade scenarios for each player that doesn't mention a single trade scenario, just a bunch of words stating the obvious.


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[LloydFree]

We're sitting here worrying about overpaying one (1) player @ 20 million per, and the Trailblazers are paying 5 guys close to 20 million each (and only two of them are any good). Worrying about Noel's potential, one year, negative effect on the team's 2020 payroll seems silly in comparison.

[Sixerscan]

Don't count on that. The cap goes up again this offseason. Brooklyn has more cap space than the 76ers, I believe. If Noel settles down and plays near what he's done his 1st 2 years, he will get Bizmack money from somebody. That's 18 per, for 4 years. Not only that, a team can sign him to a Crabbe-like contract that includes a trade kicker. So if Noel gets a 4 year 80 million dollar offer sheet, that includes a 15% trade kicker, that would take him up to 23 million per if traded. That may be distasteful to the 76ers since he will be a backup, and their ultimate goal may be to sign him and eventually use him as an asset to trade.

How do you know he's going to be a backup? Just because Brown can't see the possibilities of ways to integrate them doesn't mean that a more skilled coach won't. Your role model for Noel should be Marcus Camby. Do you think that Camby in his prime couldn't have played alongside an Olajuwon or Patrick Ewing in his prime?

Camby was a way more talented player offensively than Noel is. Noel is as devoid of offensive ability as Ben Wallace was. He can't do anything other than tip backs, and lobs. Anything beyond that is not worth trying to encourage.




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Wallace couldn't finish lobs or tip ins though, on top of being a sub 50% FT shooter. Noel has a very limited skillset but at least he's somewhat efficient in that skill set.

Camby really wasn't much beyond what Noel is now offensively either. Dude had one of the ugliest jump shots of all time. I'm more confident that Noel will reach Camby's offensive level than his defensive level (which was somewhat overrated but still very very good).

[spikeslovechild]

How do you know he's going to be a backup? Just because Brown can't see the possibilities of ways to integrate them doesn't mean that a more skilled coach won't. Your role model for Noel should be Marcus Camby. Do you think that Camby in his prime couldn't have played alongside an Olajuwon or Patrick Ewing in his prime?

Camby was a way more talented player offensively than Noel is. Noel is as devoid of offensive ability as Ben Wallace was. He can't do anything other than tip backs, and lobs. Anything beyond that is not worth trying to encourage.




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Wallace couldn't finish lobs or tip ins though, on top of being a sub 50% FT shooter. Noel has a very limited skillset but at least he's somewhat efficient in that skill set.

Camby really wasn't much beyond what Noel is now offensively either. Dude had one of the ugliest jump shots of all time. I'm more confident that Noel will reach Camby's offensive level than his defensive level (which was somewhat overrated but still very very good).

Will he rebound is the question. Right now his rebounding numbers aren't that much better then Okafor. If he played great defense rebounded and cut down on the turnovers there would be a case that it doesn't matter what he does offensively.

But he only does certain things well on defense. He's not Tyson Chandler. He's .080 WS/48 player right now. I don't think people are being honest about his overall impact.

[spikeslovechild]

The starter thing seems easy enough to overcome. 4 minutes starting the 1st and 3rd qtr and then the 16 minutes that Embiid is not on the floor. The bigger issue is end of games, where Noel would either be on the bench or on a offense-defense rotation.

Also, what is the worst case scenario or matching... That somewhere down the road you have to give him away plus made a small sweetener? That seems like a small risk given the cost of losing a valuable player for nothing.

Sure we can find minutes for him at PF. The question is why should we? It's one of our deepest positions. We'd essentially be taking minutes away from players who can play the position to a player who as of yet shown he can't.

We can also have him steal minutes from Embiid. Once again the question is why would we want him too? I don't get some posters here at all. It's like they are more concerned with making Noel work then making the Sixers work.

My stance remains unchanged since the beginning of the season. Noel has to go. The only way it makes sense is if he is willing to accept a limited backup role to Embiid for backup money. That doesn't appear to be happening anytime soon.

[Ericb5]

How do you know he's going to be a backup? Just because Brown can't see the possibilities of ways to integrate them doesn't mean that a more skilled coach won't. Your role model for Noel should be Marcus Camby. Do you think that Camby in his prime couldn't have played alongside an Olajuwon or Patrick Ewing in his prime?

Camby was a way more talented player offensively than Noel is. Noel is as devoid of offensive ability as Ben Wallace was. He can't do anything other than tip backs, and lobs. Anything beyond that is not worth trying to encourage.




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Wallace couldn't finish lobs or tip ins though, on top of being a sub 50% FT shooter. Noel has a very limited skillset but at least he's somewhat efficient in that skill set.

Camby really wasn't much beyond what Noel is now offensively either. Dude had one of the ugliest jump shots of all time. I'm more confident that Noel will reach Camby's offensive level than his defensive level (which was somewhat overrated but still very very good).

Do you remember Camby's junior year in college? I happened to be in college at the time and a big time Temple fan during those years. Camby was a star on offense and defense that year. In fact, that season of his was one of the 5-10 best college seasons that I remember in my lifetime of being a fan of anyone. One and done era guys don't stick around long enough to get that good in college anymore.

Still, the NBA is where it matters.

Camby was an excellent rebounder, and at least as good as a rim protector. Noel hasn't shown any potential for rebounding like Camby did. He didn't have Noel's quick hands, or foot speed, but he was just as good on defense overall. Noel is probably more equipped to defend the 4, but as 5's they are comparable.

He also had touch around the rim. The problem was that he never got strong enough to get deep post position in the NBA. In college, he was lights out in the post though. My point is that he was much more skilled on offense than Noel is. He just suffered from the same fatal flaw of physical weakness.


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[Sixerscan]

Camby was a way more talented player offensively than Noel is. Noel is as devoid of offensive ability as Ben Wallace was. He can't do anything other than tip backs, and lobs. Anything beyond that is not worth trying to encourage.




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Wallace couldn't finish lobs or tip ins though, on top of being a sub 50% FT shooter. Noel has a very limited skillset but at least he's somewhat efficient in that skill set.

Camby really wasn't much beyond what Noel is now offensively either. Dude had one of the ugliest jump shots of all time. I'm more confident that Noel will reach Camby's offensive level than his defensive level (which was somewhat overrated but still very very good).

Do you remember Camby's junior year in college? I happened to be in college at the time and a big time Temple fan during those years. Camby was a star on offense and defense that year. In fact, that season of his was one of the 5-10 best college seasons that I remember in my lifetime of being a fan of anyone. One and done era guys don't stick around long enough to get that good in college anymore.

Still, the NBA is where it matters.

Camby was an excellent rebounder, and at least as good as a rim protector. Noel hasn't shown any potential for rebounding like Camby did. He didn't have Noel's quick hands, or foot speed, but he was just as good on defense overall. Noel is probably more equipped to defend the 4, but as 5's they are comparable.

He also had touch around the rim. The problem was that he never got strong enough to get deep post position in the NBA. In college, he was lights out in the post though. My point is that he was much more skilled on offense than Noel is. He just suffered from the same fatal flaw of physical weakness.


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Well like you said the NBA is where it matters. And he was pretty much a P&R and dunk guy in the league. His post moves and jumpers were super ineffective. He was a 10-12 PPG on less than 50% from the field guy during most of his prime, do we really think Nerlens can't do that during his?

And as I said Nerlens has a bit to go before he's Camby as a defender. But FWIW, Nerlens grabbed more rebounds (per game per minute per possession) in his first two years in the league than Camby did in his (younger too). Averaged more rebounds (per game per minute, I assume per possession those numbers don't go back that far) as a freshman than Camby did any of his 3 years in college etc. Camby was a weak rebounder when he was younger.

[hookshot199]

How do you know he's going to be a backup? Just because Brown can't see the possibilities of ways to integrate them doesn't mean that a more skilled coach won't. Your role model for Noel should be Marcus Camby. Do you think that Camby in his prime couldn't have played alongside an Olajuwon or Patrick Ewing in his prime?

Camby was a way more talented player offensively than Noel is. Noel is as devoid of offensive ability as Ben Wallace was. He can't do anything other than tip backs, and lobs. Anything beyond that is not worth trying to encourage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wallace couldn't finish lobs or tip ins though, on top of being a sub 50% FT shooter. Noel has a very limited skillset but at least he's somewhat efficient in that skill set.

Camby really wasn't much beyond what Noel is now offensively either. Dude had one of the ugliest jump shots of all time. I'm more confident that Noel will reach Camby's offensive level than his defensive level (which was somewhat overrated but still very very good).

Camby played three years in college. Noel: 2/3 of a season. Missed his entire first NBA year.

He and Noel have many similar defensive skills. Concerning offense, Camby made 18 threes in 17 years, shot .466 overall. His jump shot wasn't pretty.

Watch on YouTube

[hookshot199]

The starter thing seems easy enough to overcome. 4 minutes starting the 1st and 3rd qtr and then the 16 minutes that Embiid is not on the floor. The bigger issue is end of games, where Noel would either be on the bench or on a offense-defense rotation.

Also, what is the worst case scenario or matching... That somewhere down the road you have to give him away plus made a small sweetener? That seems like a small risk given the cost of losing a valuable player for nothing.

Sure we can find minutes for him at PF. The question is why should we? It's one of our deepest positions. We'd essentially be taking minutes away from players who can play the position to a player who as of yet shown he can't.

We can also have him steal minutes from Embiid. Once again the question is why would we want him too? I don't get some posters here at all. It's like they are more concerned with making Noel work then making the Sixers work.

My stance remains unchanged since the beginning of the season. Noel has to go. The only way it makes sense is if he is willing to accept a limited backup role to Embiid for backup money. That doesn't appear to be happening anytime soon.

Ilyasova is a rental. Saric can/will play part time at three. Okafor will have to be moved. I don't see the problem.

[Ericb5]

Wallace couldn't finish lobs or tip ins though, on top of being a sub 50% FT shooter. Noel has a very limited skillset but at least he's somewhat efficient in that skill set.

Camby really wasn't much beyond what Noel is now offensively either. Dude had one of the ugliest jump shots of all time. I'm more confident that Noel will reach Camby's offensive level than his defensive level (which was somewhat overrated but still very very good).

Do you remember Camby's junior year in college? I happened to be in college at the time and a big time Temple fan during those years. Camby was a star on offense and defense that year. In fact, that season of his was one of the 5-10 best college seasons that I remember in my lifetime of being a fan of anyone. One and done era guys don't stick around long enough to get that good in college anymore.

Still, the NBA is where it matters.

Camby was an excellent rebounder, and at least as good as a rim protector. Noel hasn't shown any potential for rebounding like Camby did. He didn't have Noel's quick hands, or foot speed, but he was just as good on defense overall. Noel is probably more equipped to defend the 4, but as 5's they are comparable.

He also had touch around the rim. The problem was that he never got strong enough to get deep post position in the NBA. In college, he was lights out in the post though. My point is that he was much more skilled on offense than Noel is. He just suffered from the same fatal flaw of physical weakness.


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Well like you said the NBA is where it matters. And he was pretty much a P&R and dunk guy in the league. His post moves and jumpers were super ineffective. He was a 10-12 PPG on less than 50% from the field guy during most of his prime, do we really think Nerlens can't do that during his?

And as I said Nerlens has a bit to go before he's Camby as a defender. But FWIW, Nerlens grabbed more rebounds (per game per minute per possession) in his first two years in the league than Camby did in his (younger too). Averaged more rebounds (per game per minute, I assume per possession those numbers don't go back that far) as a freshman than Camby did any of his 3 years in college etc. Camby was a weak rebounder when he was younger.

I know that production is what matters, but what I am saying is that Camby is starting with more ability on offense and defense.


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[hookshot199]

Do you remember Camby's junior year in college? I happened to be in college at the time and a big time Temple fan during those years. Camby was a star on offense and defense that year. In fact, that season of his was one of the 5-10 best college seasons that I remember in my lifetime of being a fan of anyone. One and done era guys don't stick around long enough to get that good in college anymore.

Still, the NBA is where it matters.

Camby was an excellent rebounder, and at least as good as a rim protector. Noel hasn't shown any potential for rebounding like Camby did. He didn't have Noel's quick hands, or foot speed, but he was just as good on defense overall. Noel is probably more equipped to defend the 4, but as 5's they are comparable.

He also had touch around the rim. The problem was that he never got strong enough to get deep post position in the NBA. In college, he was lights out in the post though. My point is that he was much more skilled on offense than Noel is. He just suffered from the same fatal flaw of physical weakness.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well like you said the NBA is where it matters. And he was pretty much a P&R and dunk guy in the league. His post moves and jumpers were super ineffective. He was a 10-12 PPG on less than 50% from the field guy during most of his prime, do we really think Nerlens can't do that during his?

And as I said Nerlens has a bit to go before he's Camby as a defender. But FWIW, Nerlens grabbed more rebounds (per game per minute per possession) in his first two years in the league than Camby did in his (younger too). Averaged more rebounds (per game per minute, I assume per possession those numbers don't go back that far) as a freshman than Camby did any of his 3 years in college etc. Camby was a weak rebounder when he was younger.

I know that production is what matters, but what I am saying is that Camby is starting with more ability on offense and defense.


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Camby's freshman year wasn't as good as Noel's freshman year.

Marcus Camby - U-Mass

Season G MP FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1993-94 29 21.9 4.0 8.2 .494 4.0 8.0 .502 0.0 0.1 .000 2.1 3.6 .596 6.4 1.2 0.6 3.6 1.7 3.5 10.2
1994-95 30 22.6 5.5 10.1 .550 5.5 10.0 .548 0.0 0.0 1.000 2.8 4.3 .643 6.2 1.2 0.8 3.4 1.8 2.5 13.9
1995-96 33 30.6 7.8 16.3 .477 7.8 16.0 .484 0.0 0.2 .000 4.9 7.1 .700 8.2 1.8 1.0 3.9 2.5 2.6 20.5
Career 92 25.3 5.9 11.7 .501 5.8 11.6 .506 0.0 0.1 .077 3.3 5.1 .661 7.0 1.4 0.8 3.7 2.0 2.8 15.1


Nerlens Noel - Kentucky

Season G MP FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
2012-13 24 31.9 4.1 6.9 .590 4.1 6.9 .590 0.0 0.0 2.3 4.3 .529 9.5 1.6 2.1 4.4 1.9 2.6 10.5
Career 24 31.9 4.1 6.9 .590 4.1 6.9 .590 0.0 0.0 2.3 4.3 .529 9.5 1.6 2.1 4.4 1.9 2.6 10.5

[LloydFree]

...And as someone who believes that Okafor is a great prospect - he turns 21 this week - I can live with that. Can't blame Brown yet, but if he doesn't start playing Okafor and Embiid together in the next 20-25 games... it will be coaching malpractice... And I expect that Brown will be ordered to play Okafor and Embiid together for some parts of every game for the rest of the season. - 12/11/16

5 games later:

... Okafor will have to be moved. I don't see the problem. - 12/26/16

[hookshot199]

...And as someone who believes that Okafor is a great prospect - he turns 21 this week - I can live with that. Can't blame Brown yet, but if he doesn't start playing Okafor and Embiid together in the next 20-25 games... it will be coaching malpractice... And I expect that Brown will be ordered to play Okafor and Embiid together for some parts of every game for the rest of the season. - 12/11/16

5 games later:

... Okafor will have to be moved. I don't see the problem. - 12/26/16

Precedning my 2/11/2015 post (#1402), I wrote as follows.


And as someone who believes that Okafor is a great prospect - he turns 21 this week - I can live with that. Can't blame Brown yet, but if he doesn't start playing Okafor and Embiid together in the next 20-25 games and ditto for Noel and Embiid, it will be coaching malpractice.


Then again same day (#1403):

Without getting into advanced statistics and trying to interpret veterans, even retired players with a 22-year-old, if we are lucky enough to keep Noel - find him his 30 minutes - two of the ugliest shots of major contributors to winning teams in the past 25 years belong to Yoakim Noah (active but declining) and Marcus Camby (retired).

They also are players very similar to what Noel's potential is.

And if you look at Camby and Noah's career 'basic' stats, they are also very similar to Noel's first two years: minutes/game (29.5, 29.2 and 30.0; Camby, Noah, Noel), points/game (9.5, 9.1, 10.5), rebounds/game (9.8, 9.4 and 8.1), blocks/game (2.4, 1.4, 1.7), steals/game (1.0, 0.8, 1.8), field goal percentage (.466, .490, and .491). And Camby and Noah - so far Noel as well - have missed an average of 15% of games because of minor injuries.

I have resigned myself to Noel being traded. I hope it doesn't happen. That said, I remember a day when pitchers used to go well over 100 pitches/game. I see no reason why athletic 7-footers can't have some sort of minute restrictions. I see no reason why a creative coach - especially since Embiid can shoot - can't find a way to divide their minutes to make both happy. Play them together at times; play them apart at other times.


Then on 12/20/2015, Embiid tweeted that Noel is his 'best friend on the team'.


You took my first comment out of context. I said that I was 'resigned' to Noel being traded…' It was in that context I made my Okafor comment.

Then following Embiid's tweets, the discussion changed.

Context is important. You can't cherry-pick and ignore the context. Both players, Noel and Okafor, deserve to be given a chance. My preference has always been for Noel. I also don't believe there's a need to rush a trade like a shotgun marriage.

[LloydFree]

...And as someone who believes that Okafor is a great prospect - he turns 21 this week - I can live with that. Can't blame Brown yet, but if he doesn't start playing Okafor and Embiid together in the next 20-25 games... it will be coaching malpractice... And I expect that Brown will be ordered to play Okafor and Embiid together for some parts of every game for the rest of the season. - 12/11/16

5 games later:

... Okafor will have to be moved. I don't see the problem. - 12/26/16

Precedning my 2/11/2015 post (#1402), I wrote as follows.


And as someone who believes that Okafor is a great prospect - he turns 21 this week - I can live with that. Can't blame Brown yet, but if he doesn't start playing Okafor and Embiid together in the next 20-25 games and ditto for Noel and Embiid, it will be coaching malpractice.


Then again same day (#1403):

Without getting into advanced statistics and trying to interpret veterans, even retired players with a 22-year-old, if we are lucky enough to keep Noel - find him his 30 minutes - two of the ugliest shots of major contributors to winning teams in the past 25 years belong to Yoakim Noah (active but declining) and Marcus Camby (retired).

They also are players very similar to what Noel's potential is.

And if you look at Camby and Noah's career 'basic' stats, they are also very similar to Noel's first two years: minutes/game (29.5, 29.2 and 30.0; Camby, Noah, Noel), points/game (9.5, 9.1, 10.5), rebounds/game (9.8, 9.4 and 8.1), blocks/game (2.4, 1.4, 1.7), steals/game (1.0, 0.8, 1.8), field goal percentage (.466, .490, and .491). And Camby and Noah - so far Noel as well - have missed an average of 15% of games because of minor injuries.

I have resigned myself to Noel being traded. I hope it doesn't happen. That said, I remember a day when pitchers used to go well over 100 pitches/game. I see no reason why athletic 7-footers can't have some sort of minute restrictions. I see no reason why a creative coach - especially since Embiid can shoot - can't find a way to divide their minutes to make both happy. Play them together at times; play them apart at other times.


Then on 12/20/2015, Embiid tweeted that Noel is his 'best friend on the team'.


You took my first comment out of context. I said that I was 'resigned' to Noel being traded…' It was in that context I made my Okafor comment.

Then following Embiid's tweets, the discussion changed.

Context is important. You can't cherry-pick and ignore the context. Both players, Noel and Okafor, deserve to be given a chance. My preference has always been for Noel. I also don't believe there's a need to rush a trade like a shotgun marriage.

Thumbs up. I think it's great that you clarified your comments and pointed out the changes in circumstances that caused you to adjust your stance. I do not agree that Okafor is a "great prospect" and I found it funny that you felt he was a great prospect, and now after 5 games, of something you demanded had to be done, you've quickly decided "he has to go".

I did not agree with some of your posts, hinting that Brown's refusal to play Okafor with Embiid was somehow damaging to the team, or to Okafor. I'm also ambivalent towards having to see Noel paired with Embiid. We don't need to see Okafor or Noel next to Embiid, to know what either player can do. The player's skills and deficiencies stand on their own. You are either a good player, with useful skills for the NBA, or you're not. It's not the coach, it's not the guards and it's not Embiid. It doesn't take 5 games paired in a specific lineup, with specific players, to see what basic skills each of these guys bring to a team.

[rzzzzz]

if you're a center, and you push and body up on a big defender to get position, and nobody throws you the ball, you're not happy. just like you're not happy if on the other end your guards play matador and let their man just fly into the paint. or put up no resistance to long range bombs that that fly off the rim if they don't land. we all know what Ish did for Nerlens and Jah, and what they had to say about it. same with what's going on with Davis and Jrue right now. ask Cousins what he thinks of the Kings last couple of drafts. (we already know how Nerlens feels.) Isaiah Thomas is correct about this.

yes, i want to see what a really good backcourt does for Nerlens and Okafor and Embiid. and i'd rather be patient and develop talent instead of giving it away, even i'm sympathetic to the chance that a couple of our bigs could prosper elsewhere.

[LloydFree]

if you're a center, and you push and body up on a big defender to get position, and nobody throws you the ball, you're not happy. just like you're not happy if on the other end your guards play matador and let their man just fly into the paint. or put up no resistance to long range bombs that that fly off the rim if they don't land. we all know what Ish did for Nerlens and Jah, and what they had to say about it. same with what's going on with Davis and Jrue right now. ask Cousins what he thinks of the Kings last couple of drafts. (we already know how Nerlens feels.) Isaiah Thomas is correct about this.

yes, i want to see what a really good backcourt does for Nerlens and Okafor and Embiid. and i'd rather be patient and develop talent instead of giving it away, even i'm sympathetic to the chance that a couple of our bigs could prosper elsewhere.

Nonsense. Using the false comparison of the difference between the Pelicans w/without J'rue Holiday and Okafor w/without a good guard is pure subterfuge. That's for people who don't know any better. With or without J'rue Holiday, w/without Tim Frazier, Anthony Davis is great... and he was great when he had nobody on his team as a 19 year old Rookie... and he was MVP great at the beginning of this season without J'rue Holiday. No matter who the guards are (and the Pelicans have had below avg players his entire career) Davis still shows the basic skills of a great player. Same for Cousins. They both came into the league as Freshmen, both surrounded by terrible teammates and Head Coaches and still showed greatness. Holiday doesn't transform Davis into a good player (he's always great without him). Holiday helps the team have a better chance to compete for wins. Good guard play would help the overall team competitiveness (just as Holiday has helped the Pelicans) but it will not magically transform Okafor's basic skills and weaknesses.

So stop with the ridiculous "it's the guards, it's the coach" BS. It's pathetic. Okafor is terrible on his own. If he was good or a great prospect, the basic skills would be obvious, just as those basic skills have been obvious with Davis, Cousins and the other big men in the league playing with terrible players.