2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2

[Negrodamus]

If we're going to take a PG/SG with our first pick, I really would love it if we could snag Michael Young out of Pitt with a second rounder. He was criminally underrated during his time at Pitt and Stallings's system didn't help, along with Artis going shot for shot with him. He's long, ridiculously athletic, can shoot it really well, gets to the foul line, and had a 20 AST% to 11 TO% on 31% USG. Oh, and he's 6'9

He's a scoring machine threat off the bench. Just need to cover up his defense a bit.

[76ciology]

If we're going to take a PG/SG with our first pick, I really would love it if we could snag Michael Young out of Pitt with a second rounder. He was criminally underrated during his time at Pitt and Stallings's system didn't help, along with Artis going shot for shot with him. He's long, ridiculously athletic, can shoot it really well, gets to the foul line, and had a 20 AST% to 11 TO% on 31% USG. Oh, and he's 6'9

He's a scoring machine threat off the bench. Just need to cover up his defense a bit.

Offense can easily cover up any deficiency at D, at the PG position. Best example? IT

[76ciology]

The Fiba U18 semi final and championship are (or were) both available online. Frank was pretty good in the second half of the semi and had a great final. To my eye he isn't explosive and he has miles to go on his ball handling for an NBA PG, but is passable for a wing.

What makes him better than TLC?

[PLO]

If we're going to take a PG/SG with our first pick, I really would love it if we could snag Michael Young out of Pitt with a second rounder. He was criminally underrated during his time at Pitt and Stallings's system didn't help, along with Artis going shot for shot with him. He's long, ridiculously athletic, can shoot it really well, gets to the foul line, and had a 20 AST% to 11 TO% on 31% USG. Oh, and he's 6'9

He's a scoring machine threat off the bench. Just need to cover up his defense a bit.

Offense can easily cover up any deficiency at D, at the PG position. Best example? IT

Boston will never be a true contender while their no. 1 guard is IT.

[Unbreakable99]

If we're going to take a PG/SG with our first pick, I really would love it if we could snag Michael Young out of Pitt with a second rounder. He was criminally underrated during his time at Pitt and Stallings's system didn't help, along with Artis going shot for shot with him. He's long, ridiculously athletic, can shoot it really well, gets to the foul line, and had a 20 AST% to 11 TO% on 31% USG. Oh, and he's 6'9

He's a scoring machine threat off the bench. Just need to cover up his defense a bit.

Offense can easily cover up any deficiency at D, at the PG position. Best example? IT

Boston will never be a true contender while their no. 1 guard is IT.

IT is legit. Boston is a contender now.

[76ciology]

Offense can easily cover up any deficiency at D, at the PG position. Best example? IT

Boston will never be a true contender while their no. 1 guard is IT.

IT is legit. Boston is a contender now.

Depends on your definition of contender perhaps?

If I'm the Cavs or the Warriors, I'll run the 1-3 PnR all day if I ever face them in the play-offs

[Kolkmania]

The comparison with Exum is OK I guess except Exum is quicker, but Ntilikina has a much better game sense at the same stage - Exum was really an iso scorer as a junior (because of how far ahead he was of other juniors) whereas Ntilikina has many more team oriented attributes (can run a PnR etc) because he's been playing at mens level at an earlier stage of his career. Whatever else you can say about Exum he's already a good defender, Ntilikina will likely step into the league and be that straight away, on top of whatever else he could develop into on the other end of the floor.

I've heard one Euro scout say that Ntilikina is a better prospect than Tony Parker at the same age - with our draft and stash strategy of Euro players I figure we would be looking very closely at Ntilikina and be doing the groundwork on him. I'm not saying he's a top 5 prospect in this draft but if we are in that next bracket of picks it would be foolish to discount him as a selection for us. One thing I do know is that we need guards - if, as seems likely, the Laker pick carries over until next year, we'll be 95% picking a guard with our selection, and if we're at pick 8 and Ntilikina is there I would be quite happy with getting him.

Exum is long and listed as a guard, just like Ntilikina, that's their only similarity imo. Exum had an elite first step which made him intriguing, but his basketball skills were underdeveloped. Ntilikina lacks burst, but has a high BBIQ for his age and is a better overall player with his promising shooting, dribbling skills and passing.

Spurs invited Tony Parker at advice of their international scout and let him play against one of their guards and Parker couldn't hit a shot, only in the second try-out he impressed Popovich, primarily because of Parker's mental strength. What I'm trying to say, career developments aren't linear. Plenty of guards were better than Steve Nash at their age, but only a few ended up better than him.

I haven't seen much of Ntilikina, so I'm not the best informed guy. But his strengths seem very similar to TLC, a guard/wing that needs time but has two-way wing potential. Unless Ntilikina is willing to be stashed, I don't think there are plenty of minutes and opportunities which is necessary to develop himself. I'd rather swing for the fences at ~7 and hope that either De'Aaron Fox becomes a decent catch and shoot guard or Dennis Smith jr's mental lapses were a result of the toxic environment at NC State (if you want to draft a guard).

[PLO]

The comparison with Exum is OK I guess except Exum is quicker, but Ntilikina has a much better game sense at the same stage - Exum was really an iso scorer as a junior (because of how far ahead he was of other juniors) whereas Ntilikina has many more team oriented attributes (can run a PnR etc) because he's been playing at mens level at an earlier stage of his career. Whatever else you can say about Exum he's already a good defender, Ntilikina will likely step into the league and be that straight away, on top of whatever else he could develop into on the other end of the floor.

I've heard one Euro scout say that Ntilikina is a better prospect than Tony Parker at the same age - with our draft and stash strategy of Euro players I figure we would be looking very closely at Ntilikina and be doing the groundwork on him. I'm not saying he's a top 5 prospect in this draft but if we are in that next bracket of picks it would be foolish to discount him as a selection for us. One thing I do know is that we need guards - if, as seems likely, the Laker pick carries over until next year, we'll be 95% picking a guard with our selection, and if we're at pick 8 and Ntilikina is there I would be quite happy with getting him.

Exum is long and listed as a guard, just like Ntilikina, that's their only similarity imo. Exum had an elite first step which made him intriguing, but his basketball skills were underdeveloped. Ntilikina lacks burst, but has a high BBIQ for his age and is a better overall player with his promising shooting, dribbling skills and passing.

Spurs invited Tony Parker at advice of their international scout and let him play against one of their guards and Parker couldn't hit a shot, only in the second try-out he impressed Popovich, primarily because of Parker's mental strength. What I'm trying to say, career developments aren't linear. Plenty of guards were better than Steve Nash at their age, but only a few ended up better than him.

I haven't seen much of Ntilikina, so I'm not the best informed guy. But his strengths seem very similar to TLC, a guard/wing that needs time but has two-way wing potential. Unless Ntilikina is willing to be stashed, I don't think there are plenty of minutes and opportunities which is necessary to develop himself. I'd rather swing for the fences at ~7 and hope that either De'Aaron Fox becomes a decent catch and shoot guard or Dennis Smith jr's mental lapses were a result of the toxic environment at NC State (if you want to draft a guard).

Fair points - TLC was never really seen as an initiator - I don't really see his role and Ntilikina's as the same long-term, I think Ntilikina can be a secondary initiator and he fits so well with Simmons because Simmons wont be able to defend the opposing PG, whereas Ntilikina's defense is legit as far as I'm concerned. Ntilikina (really need a nickname for him, bit sick of copy pasting it) is hard to judge for obvious reasons but of the players available say at 8 (I don't think DSJ will be there, probably not Monk either) I think he fits the best with the roster we have. He'll basically be the best guard prospect available that fits with what we have; the arguments against Fox have been done over repeatedly elsewhere. If you think TLC can fill that role long-term, fair enough then we should go in another direction in this draft - but I don't see it at this stage.

The danger obviously is the local prospects have been nitpicked over the entire year - the Fergusons and Ntilikinas there isn't that much information on them, but one thing I do know is odds are Fox wont become the guard you hope he will and Monk is a gaping hole on defense (among other faults). I would argue if you are going to swing for the fences its on a Ntilikina - I mean some people have him going in the 20s - he's probably not the safest prospect in this draft because some of the positive traits I see might just be an illusion brought about because of the competition he's playing against. I can't see him being a bust on defense though - could well be a bust in a lot of offensive areas however.

[PLO]

Boston will never be a true contender while their no. 1 guard is IT.

IT is legit. Boston is a contender now.

Depends on your definition of contender perhaps?

If I'm the Cavs or the Warriors, I'll run the 1-3 PnR all day if I ever face them in the play-offs

This, pretty much - I think if the Celts thought they were legit they would have moved Heaven and Earth to get a Butler or Nerlens.

[Kolkmania]

The comparison with Exum is OK I guess except Exum is quicker, but Ntilikina has a much better game sense at the same stage - Exum was really an iso scorer as a junior (because of how far ahead he was of other juniors) whereas Ntilikina has many more team oriented attributes (can run a PnR etc) because he's been playing at mens level at an earlier stage of his career. Whatever else you can say about Exum he's already a good defender, Ntilikina will likely step into the league and be that straight away, on top of whatever else he could develop into on the other end of the floor.

I've heard one Euro scout say that Ntilikina is a better prospect than Tony Parker at the same age - with our draft and stash strategy of Euro players I figure we would be looking very closely at Ntilikina and be doing the groundwork on him. I'm not saying he's a top 5 prospect in this draft but if we are in that next bracket of picks it would be foolish to discount him as a selection for us. One thing I do know is that we need guards - if, as seems likely, the Laker pick carries over until next year, we'll be 95% picking a guard with our selection, and if we're at pick 8 and Ntilikina is there I would be quite happy with getting him.

Exum is long and listed as a guard, just like Ntilikina, that's their only similarity imo. Exum had an elite first step which made him intriguing, but his basketball skills were underdeveloped. Ntilikina lacks burst, but has a high BBIQ for his age and is a better overall player with his promising shooting, dribbling skills and passing.

Spurs invited Tony Parker at advice of their international scout and let him play against one of their guards and Parker couldn't hit a shot, only in the second try-out he impressed Popovich, primarily because of Parker's mental strength. What I'm trying to say, career developments aren't linear. Plenty of guards were better than Steve Nash at their age, but only a few ended up better than him.

I haven't seen much of Ntilikina, so I'm not the best informed guy. But his strengths seem very similar to TLC, a guard/wing that needs time but has two-way wing potential. Unless Ntilikina is willing to be stashed, I don't think there are plenty of minutes and opportunities which is necessary to develop himself. I'd rather swing for the fences at ~7 and hope that either De'Aaron Fox becomes a decent catch and shoot guard or Dennis Smith jr's mental lapses were a result of the toxic environment at NC State (if you want to draft a guard).

Fair points - TLC was never really seen as an initiator - I don't really see his role and Ntilikina's as the same long-term, I think Ntilikina can be a secondary initiator and he fits so well with Simmons because Simmons wont be able to defend the opposing PG, whereas Ntilikina's defense is legit as far as I'm concerned. Ntilikina (really need a nickname for him, bit sick of copy pasting it) is hard to judge for obvious reasons but of the players available say at 8 (I don't think DSJ will be there, probably not Monk either) I think he fits the best with the roster we have. He'll basically be the best guard prospect available that fits with what we have; the arguments against Fox have been done over repeatedly elsewhere. If you think TLC can fill that role long-term, fair enough then we should go in another direction in this draft - but I don't see it at this stage.

The danger obviously is the local prospects have been nitpicked over the entire year - the Fergusons and Ntilikinas there isn't that much information on them, but one thing I do know is odds are Fox wont become the guard you hope he will and Monk is a gaping hole on defense (among other faults). I would argue if you are going to swing for the fences its on a Ntilikina - I mean some people have him going in the 20s - he's probably not the safest prospect in this draft because some of the positive traits I see might just be an illusion brought about because of the competition he's playing against. I can't see him being a bust on defense though - could well be a bust in a lot of offensive areas however.

Agree that TLC and Ntilikina are on different levels regarding playmaking abilities. But my point was that Ntilikina is probably not a guard, more like a wing playing next to a lead ball handler. So he'll need to compete with Covington, TLC, Anderson, Stauskas, Bayless and possibly Henderson and Korkmaz. I don't think he's good enough to make an immediate impact, combine that with (in my opinion) limited ceiling and he'll struggle to get minutes. Do like the fit with Simmons, but I've never been a proponent of drafting because of fit if there's a discrepancy between talent.

But if Fultz, Tatum, Jackson, Ball, Dennis Smith, Isaac and Fox are gone, I could talk myself into Ntilikina if some of the remaining prospects won't declare.

[smittybanton]

The holiday season begins!

2017 McDonald’s All American High School Basketball Team®

EAST TEAM

11 Mohamed Bamba C 6’11” 210 Westtown School (West Chester, PA) Undecided
34 Wendell Carter, Jr. PF 6’9” 254 Pace Academy (Atlanta, GA) Duke
1 Trevon Duval PG 6’3 183 IMG Academy (Bradenton, FL) Undecided
0 Quade Green PG 6’1” 170 SS. Neumann Goretti High School (Philadelphia, PA) Kentucky
23 Kevin Knox II SF 6’8” 203 Tampa Catholic High School (Tampa, FL) Undecided
4 Nicholas Richards C 6’11” 250 The Patrick School (Hillside, NJ) Kentucky
22 Mitchell Robinson C 6’11” 215 Chalmette High School (Chalmette, LA) Western Kentucky
10 Collin Sexton SG 6’3” 175 Pebblebrook High School (Mableton, GA) Alabama
2 Jarred Vanderbilt PF 6’8” 200 Victory Prep Academy (Houston, TX) Kentucky
14 Lonnie Walker IV SG 6’4” 192 Reading High School (Reading, PA) Miami
25 PJ Washington Jr PF 6’8” 225 Findlay Prep (Henderson, NV) Kentucky
31 Kris Wilkes SF 6’7” 194 North Central High School (Indianapolis, IN) UCLA


WEST TEAM

0 Deandre Ayton C 7’0" 220 Hillcrest Prep (Phoenix, AZ) Arizona
20 Brian “Tugs” Bowen II SF 6’7” 190 La Lumiere School (La Porte, IN) Undecided
5 Troy Brown Jr SF 6’7” 215 Centennial High School (Las Vegas, NV) Oregon
3 Jaylen Hands PG 6’3” 170 Foothills Christian High School (El Cajon, CA) UCLA
8 Jaren Jackson Jr. PF 6’11” 225 La Lumiere School (La Porte, IN) Michigan State
44 Brandon L. McCoy C 6’11” 244 Cathedral Catholic High School (San Diego, CA) Undecided
21 Chuck O’Bannon Jr. SF 6’6” 200 Bishop Gorman High School (Las Vegas, NV) USC
1 Michael Porter Jr. SF 6’10” 212 Nathan Hale High School (Seattle, WA) Missouri
23 Billy Preston PF 6’10” 230 Oak Hill Academy (Mouth of Wilson, VA) Kansas
2 Gary Trent Jr. SG 6’5” 200 Prolific Prep Academy (Napa, CA) Duke
24 MJ Walker SG 6’5” 207 Jonesboro High (Jonesboro, GA) Undecided
11 Trae Young PG 6’2” 170 Norman North High School (Norman, OK) Oklahoma

[PhilasFinest]

The comparison with Exum is OK I guess except Exum is quicker, but Ntilikina has a much better game sense at the same stage - Exum was really an iso scorer as a junior (because of how far ahead he was of other juniors) whereas Ntilikina has many more team oriented attributes (can run a PnR etc) because he's been playing at mens level at an earlier stage of his career. Whatever else you can say about Exum he's already a good defender, Ntilikina will likely step into the league and be that straight away, on top of whatever else he could develop into on the other end of the floor.

I've heard one Euro scout say that Ntilikina is a better prospect than Tony Parker at the same age - with our draft and stash strategy of Euro players I figure we would be looking very closely at Ntilikina and be doing the groundwork on him. I'm not saying he's a top 5 prospect in this draft but if we are in that next bracket of picks it would be foolish to discount him as a selection for us. One thing I do know is that we need guards - if, as seems likely, the Laker pick carries over until next year, we'll be 95% picking a guard with our selection, and if we're at pick 8 and Ntilikina is there I would be quite happy with getting him.

Exum is long and listed as a guard, just like Ntilikina, that's their only similarity imo. Exum had an elite first step which made him intriguing, but his basketball skills were underdeveloped. Ntilikina lacks burst, but has a high BBIQ for his age and is a better overall player with his promising shooting, dribbling skills and passing.

Spurs invited Tony Parker at advice of their international scout and let him play against one of their guards and Parker couldn't hit a shot, only in the second try-out he impressed Popovich, primarily because of Parker's mental strength. What I'm trying to say, career developments aren't linear. Plenty of guards were better than Steve Nash at their age, but only a few ended up better than him.

I haven't seen much of Ntilikina, so I'm not the best informed guy. But his strengths seem very similar to TLC, a guard/wing that needs time but has two-way wing potential. Unless Ntilikina is willing to be stashed, I don't think there are plenty of minutes and opportunities which is necessary to develop himself. I'd rather swing for the fences at ~7 and hope that either De'Aaron Fox becomes a decent catch and shoot guard or Dennis Smith jr's mental lapses were a result of the toxic environment at NC State (if you want to draft a guard).

in RE to the Tony Parker comment (which has been made by a few people)

Parker was certainly raw and needed development, but he was also lightning quick. In his prime, Parker was literally one of the quickest players in the league. If Ntilikina had that type of quickness, he'd be a much more intriguing prospect IMO....but he does not.

[Unbreakable99]

Boston will never be a true contender while their no. 1 guard is IT.

IT is legit. Boston is a contender now.

Depends on your definition of contender perhaps?

If I'm the Cavs or the Warriors, I'll run the 1-3 PnR all day if I ever face them in the play-offs

I think IT will be fine. People are hung up on his height. He's proven he's a legit baller. AI was 6'0 and went to the finals. IT has the right pieces around him. He has good defensive players. All he had to do is worry about offense. The Celtics are peaking at the right time.

[phiphan]

The Fiba U18 semi final and championship are (or were) both available online. Frank was pretty good in the second half of the semi and had a great final. To my eye he isn't explosive and he has miles to go on his ball handling for an NBA PG, but is passable for a wing.

What makes him better than TLC?

Primarily age (TLC is already 22 I think) and length. Defensively, Ntilikina has more potential as a multi-positional and disruptive defender. Offensively, Ntilikina is a better ball handler than TLC, and has more versatility as a result. He has better playmaking potential than TLC due to his superior ball handling, distributing instincts, and BBIQ. I count him as a better prospect than TLC, but a lot depends on his physical development and how his shot translates.

[cksdayoff]

I think Frank gets taken in the later part of the lottery, could change after workouts and such. Frank has an imposing figure, and once he fills out, he's gonna be a monster defensively.

[Unbreakable99]

If you can only have one or the other would you rather have the second pick and get no good free agent or get the 7th pick but get KCP or Otto Porter AND Lowry. And yes I know we could do both and get the 2nd pick and add good free agents. But for this question it's an either or.

Do you also think BC would be more likely to try to sign KCP or Porter or Lowry if we don't get a top 5 pick but if we get the top pick it 2nd pick not go as hard after free agents like the ones I mentioned?

[LloydFree]

I think Frank gets taken in the later part of the lottery, could change after workouts and such. Frank has an imposing figure, and once he fills out, he's gonna be a monster defensively.

... Or you could use a 2nd round pick and take Bruce Brown, and get everything that you are describing in a package, ready to go.

[cksdayoff]

I think Frank gets taken in the later part of the lottery, could change after workouts and such. Frank has an imposing figure, and once he fills out, he's gonna be a monster defensively.

... Or you could use a 2nd round pick and take Bruce Brown, and get everything that you are describing in a package, ready to go.

Does Bruce Brown last until the 2nd round? I think he gets taken in the 20s at the latest

[jaxsontend]

ive tended to think of Fultz as a Mcollum or even DeRozan type without actually watching much of him beyond early in the season.

after watching a mix of his season highlights i actually think he may end up a truly dominant scorer. though far less explosive than both he reminds me of kobe crossed w/ giannis (with way better shooting than both at this point)

i think ppl saying he plays too cool like jrue holiday are just deceived by his length. he uses long strides so well like giannis and can cover a lot of space forward and laterally with out putting on jets which allows him to have a crazy herky-jerky, change of pace game.

I think he should be playing pg tho not sg so not sure he fits here (not thnking wed get him in anyhting other than a draft day trade)

[jaxsontend]

If you can only have one or the other would you rather have the second pick and get no good free agent or get the 7th pick but get KCP or Otto Porter AND Lowry. And yes I know we could do both and get the 2nd pick and add good free agents. But for this question it's an either or.

Do you also think BC would be more likely to try to sign KCP or Porter or Lowry if we don't get a top 5 pick but if we get the top pick it 2nd pick not go as hard after free agents like the ones I mentioned?

id rather continue to TTP and build through the draft and UDFA etc for at least this next year. I think the time to sign free agents is when we lose in the playoffs and know what we need to defeat our rivals at that point.