Summer 2019 Free Agency Thread

[Ben]

Plenty of smoke, this could be an amazing gift to the Sixers. 5 years of Butler is a scary proposition. Age aside, 90% of his time here, fit concerns were legit. If our front office can turn Butler into several capable NBA bodies (which we’ve lacked for years), it’s a win.

We converted Covington and Saric into Butler. Now you want to convert him into 2 or 3 other players?

[Arsenal]

Plenty of smoke, this could be an amazing gift to the Sixers. 5 years of Butler is a scary proposition. Age aside, 90% of his time here, fit concerns were legit. If our front office can turn Butler into several capable NBA bodies (which we’ve lacked for years), it’s a win.

We converted Covington and Saric into Butler. Now you want to convert him into 2 or 3 other players?

I want to get 2 players from free agency, like D'Lo and Danny Green. Then pocket some draft picks to boot.

That resets our contention window further into the future. Plus it gets us assets back for if/when we need to trade for a star again.

[FlyingArrow]

Plenty of smoke, this could be an amazing gift to the Sixers. 5 years of Butler is a scary proposition. Age aside, 90% of his time here, fit concerns were legit. If our front office can turn Butler into several capable NBA bodies (which we’ve lacked for years), it’s a win.

What fit concerns? Butler was happy to take a back seat for 3 quarters and then close out games. Somehow all 5 starters averaged 16.9pts or better. And they had playoff success - not as much as we wanted but enough to show that this squad works.

[LloydFree]

Plenty of smoke, this could be an amazing gift to the Sixers. 5 years of Butler is a scary proposition. Age aside, 90% of his time here, fit concerns were legit. If our front office can turn Butler into several capable NBA bodies (which we’ve lacked for years), it’s a win.

A sign and trade would be a huge gift to the 76ers. Relieves the pressure of grossly overpaying Butler to be an aging Iill-fitting 3rd tier star on a young team trying to contend the next four years. Better off using the money for players that compliment Embiid and/or Simmons.

[BullyKing]

I agree. Just doesn't make any sense. Butler is going to say to the Sixers: I not only want to go to Houston, but am willing to sign with a different team altogether (and lose the fifth year max) if you won't S&T me to the Rockets. That's how much I don't want to be here in Philly.

Just doesn't ring true. I mean, if the Sixers prefer to convert Butler into other assets, and thus prefer a Houston S&T, that'd be one thing. (I for one sure as heck don't want a declining Eric Gordon in his place.) But not this nonsense about Butler trying to force Philly into a S&T.

If Houston first goes and dumps Capela's and Gordon's contracts for no returning salary so that they can sign Butler outright, then maybe I'll get a little more convinced. Until then this seems like smoke.

They can't sign him outright even if they dump Capela and Gordon. Trading them away in a 3 way deal allows them to take back Butler's MAX in a trade.

Can they sign him outright if they dump Tucker, too? If not, then it's even more nonsensical as it defaults to my first characterization:
Jimmy would have to be saying that he would rather be on Houston OR a different team without a 5th year, instead of on a max with Philly.
His committed preference would have to be:
Houston 5-year Max >>> LA/ NY/ Boston 4-year Max >>> Philly 5-year Max.

Amazingly enough, it's not actually mathematically possible for them to open up enough cap space to sign Butler. Assuming a 109 million cap, just deducting Harden and Paul's salaries alone gets them down to 32.7 million in space - i.e., Butler's max. But that doesn't account for minimum roster holds and the like so it's simply not possible.

[Stanford]

A sign and trade would be a huge gift to the 76ers. Relieves the the pressure of grossly overpaying Butler to be an aging Iill-fitting 3rd tier star on a young team trying to contend the next four years. Better off using the money for players that compliment Embiid and/or Simmons.

Ha, I kind of agree. I still don't know what we're getting, but if picks are coming with guys like Gordon and Tucker, I think they should consider it.

[HankTheTank]

Plenty of smoke, this could be an amazing gift to the Sixers. 5 years of Butler is a scary proposition. Age aside, 90% of his time here, fit concerns were legit. If our front office can turn Butler into several capable NBA bodies (which we’ve lacked for years), it’s a win.

We converted Covington and Saric into Butler. Now you want to convert him into 2 or 3 other players?

Yes. Hopefully 3-4. If Capela were part of a deal, he could be flipped for a nice return.

Half our roster was unplayable in the playoffs. Surround Embiid with actual NBA players and see what happens.

[Arsenal]

I agree. Just doesn't make any sense. Butler is going to say to the Sixers: I not only want to go to Houston, but am willing to sign with a different team altogether (and lose the fifth year max) if you won't S&T me to the Rockets. That's how much I don't want to be here in Philly.

Just doesn't ring true. I mean, if the Sixers prefer to convert Butler into other assets, and thus prefer a Houston S&T, that'd be one thing. (I for one sure as heck don't want a declining Eric Gordon in his place.) But not this nonsense about Butler trying to force Philly into a S&T.

If Houston first goes and dumps Capela's and Gordon's contracts for no returning salary so that they can sign Butler outright, then maybe I'll get a little more convinced. Until then this seems like smoke.

They can't sign him outright even if they dump Capela and Gordon. Trading them away in a 3 way deal allows them to take back Butler's MAX in a trade.

Can they sign him outright if they dump Tucker, too? If not, then it's even more nonsensical as it defaults to my first characterization:
Jimmy would have to be saying that he would rather be on Houston OR a different team without a 5th year, instead of on a max with Philly.
His committed preference would have to be:
Houston 5-year Max >>> LA/ NY/ Boston 4-year Max >>> Philly 5-year Max.

Actually with the new CBA I don't think they can do a 5 year deal in a S&T. So the 1st preference would be a Houston 4-year MAX.

[Negrodamus]

Plenty of smoke, this could be an amazing gift to the Sixers. 5 years of Butler is a scary proposition. Age aside, 90% of his time here, fit concerns were legit. If our front office can turn Butler into several capable NBA bodies (which we’ve lacked for years), it’s a win.

We converted Covington and Saric into Butler. Now you want to convert him into 2 or 3 other players?

It's a good point, especially since everyone could see this was going to be the case from the moment we traded for him. I still don't understand why we traded for an expiring star who will be in his mid thirties by the end of his next deal; perhaps to literally win now, as in this past season. It was short sighted, but that appears to be our new strategy.

[FlyingArrow]

Plenty of smoke, this could be an amazing gift to the Sixers. 5 years of Butler is a scary proposition. Age aside, 90% of his time here, fit concerns were legit. If our front office can turn Butler into several capable NBA bodies (which we’ve lacked for years), it’s a win.

We converted Covington and Saric into Butler. Now you want to convert him into 2 or 3 other players?

I want to get 2 players from free agency, like D'Lo and Danny Green. Then pocket some draft picks to boot.

That resets our contention window further into the future. Plus it gets us assets back for if/when we need to trade for a star again.

That sounds good, but it requires D'Lo to not be close to a max player (he probably is), and for Danny Green to want to leave Toronto without having to overpay him (he probably doesn't). There could be an offer (enough draft picks) where I'd sign-and-trade Jimmy, but signing and keeping him is option #1 to me. He's going into his age 30 season, and he's worth a max for probably 2 of those 5 seasons. But he's still a positive on the court as a starter for at least 3, and probably all 5 of them. He'll be overpaid the last season or 2 (and probably by a lot in that final season), but it's worth it to take a shot at a championship.

[Negrodamus]

The good news is that if we are to consider a S&T with Houston, we have all the leverage. We are their only path to getting Jimmy.

[Arsenal]

A sign and trade would be a huge gift to the 76ers. Relieves the the pressure of grossly overpaying Butler to be an aging Iill-fitting 3rd tier star on a young team trying to contend the next four years. Better off using the money for players that compliment Embiid and/or Simmons.

Ha, I kind of agree. I still don't know what we're getting, but if picks are coming with guys like Gordon and Tucker, I think they should consider it.

In the immoral words of Phillies legend Nailz when he heard Von Hayes had been traded:

"Great trade! Who'd we get?"

[Stanford]

we have all the leverage.

Finally! I'd love to see them use it.

Butler-Harden-Paul and nobody else would be hilarious

[Processing76]

Wait can someone explain all the mechanics of this potential trade to me?

If we sign Jimmy and trade him, best case scenario who could we take on from the Rockets? What else would we get in return (i.e. i'm guessing picks?) and how much room would we have to sign other FAs?

[Negrodamus]

Read on Twitter

[TorturedFan76]

Wait can someone explain all the mechanics of this potential trade to me?

If we sign Jimmy and trade him, best case scenario who could we take on from the Rockets? What else would we get in return (i.e. i'm guessing picks?) and how much room would we have to sign other FAs?

In a sign and trade he is not eligible for his 5 year max. Its the 4 year max. However the salary match is based on the larger of 50% of his new salary, or his previous years cap number. Thats the number we go by which is close to 20M. And since we are considered over the cap in this scenario, we cant take back more than ~25M.
So the previously rumored Gordon/Capela deal doesnt work. That comes to around 28M. We would have to add someone else in, but we have no one. If its Gordon/Capela, you need a 3rd team to somehow help.
The combo that works is Gordon/Tucker. Thats about 21M, and Butler's cap number is close to 21M.

Problem, I hate to pay Tucker 8M the next two years, as a bench player in our cap situation despite him being a nice bench player. Technically, it works but Id still prefer to find a 3rd team to take him.

[Negrodamus]

we have all the leverage.

Finally! I'd love to see them use it.

Butler-Harden-Paul and nobody else would be hilarious

Unfortunately I don't feel too confident with this group winning a trade like this.

[Arsenal]

Wait can someone explain all the mechanics of this potential trade to me?

If we sign Jimmy and trade him, best case scenario who could we take on from the Rockets? What else would we get in return (i.e. i'm guessing picks?) and how much room would we have to sign other FAs?

Best case scenario is a 3 way trade. We send a newly signed to the MAX Butler to HOU. HOU sends some combo of Capela + Gordon + Tucker + Nene to a 3rd and/or 4th team, and we get draft picks. That leaves us with $39M in cap room keeping Tobias Harris' cap hold on the books.

We can sign players for $39M total, then resign Harris above the cap. Plus we pocket the draft picks for Jimmy.

[FireMorey]

Read on Twitter

Will cost more than the MLE I’d assume. I consider it unrealistic. And even if they could it would take the whole thing, I think we should split it up. Rather add a Collison/Hill and a Volneh than just Ross.

[Arsenal]

Wait can someone explain all the mechanics of this potential trade to me?

If we sign Jimmy and trade him, best case scenario who could we take on from the Rockets? What else would we get in return (i.e. i'm guessing picks?) and how much room would we have to sign other FAs?

In a sign and trade he is not eligible for his 5 year max. Its the 4 year max. However the salary match is based on the larger of 50% of his new salary, or his previous years cap number. Thats the number we go by which is close to 20M. And since we are considered over the cap in this scenario, we cant take back more than ~25M.
So the previously rumored Gordon/Capela deal doesnt work. That comes to around 28M. We would have to add someone else in, but we have no one. If its Gordon/Capela, you need a 3rd team to somehow help.
The combo that works is Gordon/Tucker. Thats about 21M, and Butler's cap number is close to 21M.

Problem, I hate to pay Tucker 8M the next two years, as a bench player in our cap situation despite him being a nice bench player. Technically, it works but Id still prefer to find a 3rd team to take him.

Gordon + Tucker doesn't work for HOU. They would need to also add Nene.

But that's all irrelevant as I don't see us taking any of those players. They would all go to 3rd teams. We don't want them.