Ben Simmons Trade Thread part V

Samson · Post #1721 » by **Samson** » Mon Oct 4, 2021 1:12 pm

It's funny, the whole "mental health issues" would be a FASCINATING 'injury defense' if he plays that card.

It was already trotted out ... the batstuff-crazy Kyrie Irving busted it out during the - depending on your perspective- 'racial unrest' last year - or you know, when people were burning down police stations, setting up armed occupation zones and telling the cops they can't go in and we just let it happen lol - Irving just didn't play. Not feeling it ... he's sad... *and they still paid him* - and he just would not show up when he didn't feel like it... Sorry not sorry, not feeling it today, there are more important things than basketball, I'm gonna stay home and burn sage and have a nice hot cup of herbal tea...

So I could *totally* see Simmons pulling a Leon Commercial and saying "Coach, I think I just hurt my psyche, can't play..." and they get some hotshot lawyer to make the injury case.

I would laugh at it but it would make a fascinating "legal" case between the NBA, one of their teams, and a disgruntled player. It would be the next big issue. Last year was all about race- and the last thing they wanted was to look bad , this year could be all about mental health, another issue they would be terrified of looking bad on.

Da Doctor · Post #1722 » by **Da Doctor** » Mon Oct 4, 2021 1:23 pm

syntax wrote:
Da Doctor wrote:
syntax wrote:
You're either a basketball fan or you're not. Enjoy being a Philly stan. Maybe one day you will understand the game.
I was born here and support my city. That's how it normally works, no? As opposed to frontrunning or weirdly obsessing over a mediocre #1 pick who is too scared to make a free throw.

So disregard all basketball skills, ability, knowledge, impact, value (you know the game being played) and just irrationally support and parrot the narative from your city. Sounds like a Philly fan.

Everyone here criticizes Embiid when he deserves it. Wtf are you talking about? And how do you not see the irony of spouting that crap when creepily obsessing over a guy who had zero impact or value in the playoffs?

Why are you here if you hate Philadelphia so much? Go hang with the other Ben stans on twitter.

Post #1723 » by **Sixerscan** » Mon Oct 4, 2021 1:24 pm

Samson wrote:It's funny, the whole "mental health issues" would be a FASCINATING 'injury defense' if he plays that card.

It was already trotted out ... the batstuff-crazy Kyrie Irving busted it out during the - depending on your perspective- 'racial unrest' last year - or you know, when people were burning down police stations, setting up armed occupation zones and telling the cops they can't go in and we just let it happen lol - Irving just didn't play. Not feeling it ... he's sad... *and they still paid him* - and he just would not show up when he didn't feel like it... Sorry not sorry, not feeling it today, there are more important things than basketball, I'm gonna stay home and burn sage and have a nice hot cup of herbal tea...

So I could *totally* see Simmons pulling a Leon Commercial and saying "Coach, I think I just hurt my psyche, can't play..." and they get some hotshot lawyer to make the injury case.

I would laugh at it but it would make a fascinating "legal" case between the NBA, one of their teams, and a disgruntled player. It would be the next big issue. Last year was all about race- and the last thing they wanted was to look bad , this year could be all about mental health, another issue they would be terrified of looking bad on.

Well, I'm not sure how an NBA player can go from being a consistent 60+% free throw shooter for several years to shooting as poorly as he did towards the end of the regular season and the playoffs, to the point that he clearly did not want to touch the basketball in a position where he might get sent to the line. Some sort of mental block seems as good a guess as any.

Say what you want about Kyrie but when he shows up he plays well.

Bum Adebayo · Post #1724 » by **Bum Adebayo** » Mon Oct 4, 2021 1:25 pm

How can a guy complain about being a Philly stan when he himself is a Simmons stan?

Negrodamus · Post #1725 » by **Negrodamus** » Mon Oct 4, 2021 1:30 pm

Samson wrote:It's funny, the whole "mental health issues" would be a FASCINATING 'injury defense' if he plays that card.

It was already trotted out ... the batstuff-crazy Kyrie Irving busted it out during the - depending on your perspective- 'racial unrest' last year - or you know, when people were burning down police stations, setting up armed occupation zones and telling the cops they can't go in and we just let it happen lol - Irving just didn't play. Not feeling it ... he's sad... *and they still paid him* - and he just would not show up when he didn't feel like it... Sorry not sorry, not feeling it today, there are more important things than basketball, I'm gonna stay home and burn sage and have a nice hot cup of herbal tea...

So I could *totally* see Simmons pulling a Leon Commercial and saying "Coach, I think I just hurt my psyche, can't play..." and they get some hotshot lawyer to make the injury case.

I would laugh at it but it would make a fascinating "legal" case between the NBA, one of their teams, and a disgruntled player. It would be the next big issue. Last year was all about race- and the last thing they wanted was to look bad , this year could be all about mental health, another issue they would be terrified of looking bad on.

Boy that'd be a quick way to kill his valuation. FO discussions will be about how he's mentally unstable and, thus, unplayable in playoff situations. Whether that's true or not doesn't matter, no team will look bad by not offering a ton for him.

The downsides to "mental health issues" as an injury would be 1) attempting that as an injury and failing (thus not getting paid), and 2) his legacy as a player. If he's sitting for over a year due to killing his value and being injured, then he's missing prime years of his play. Then again, maybe he doesn't really care about that if he's collecting a paycheck.

All that said, if he's really having a debilitating mental health decline, I truly hope he is able to make a full recovery.

Samson · Post #1726 » by **Samson** » Mon Oct 4, 2021 1:33 pm

Sixerscan wrote:Well, I'm not sure how an NBA player can go from being a consistent 60+% free throw shooter for several years to shooting as poorly as he did towards the end of the regular season and the playoffs, to the point that he clearly did not want to touch the basketball in a position where he might get sent to the line. Some sort of mental block seems as good a guess as any.

Say what you want about Kyrie but when he shows up he plays well.

I am not unwilling to entertain the idea he has real mental issues of one kind or another - I mean everyone does to some degree, no? - but I think it's not really that. I think straight-up, he's rich & famous spoiled brat, and is being spoon-fed a buffet of LeBron's player empowerment BS. I am pretty sure you could find posts of mine from several years ago calling this. There was stuff on places online, I can't remember where, saying that LeBron told Simmons to demand the supermax contract and give it a year or two before demanding a trade to LA. I don't see that happening but I didn't see the Westbrook trade either , that still happened.

I think he's just a half-egomaniac half-spoiled brat... he's got all the money in the world coming to him, he Keeps Up With Kardashians and has Ferraris and a house with a tree in it etc. And LeBron and Paul are almost certainly just feeding him "You can do whatever you want, we rule the world, don't you know I'm King James and my jersey-seller-at-the-airport-agent has got Adele and btw I'm King James, that mean I'm the boss! I almost dropped out of HS early but I'm super smart , obviously, because I'm really good at running & jumping & shooting basketballs. Therefore, === King James *confirmed.... Thank you for your anticipated cooperation in this matter. Respectfully, -LeBron"

P.S. "Now trade my boy to LA right now. Nevermind about the salary cap. We're entitled. And hurry up about it. Thank you for your time. Again, sincerely, King James."

Post #1727 » by **Sixerscan** » Mon Oct 4, 2021 1:54 pm

Samson wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:Well, I'm not sure how an NBA player can go from being a consistent 60+% free throw shooter for several years to shooting as poorly as he did towards the end of the regular season and the playoffs, to the point that he clearly did not want to touch the basketball in a position where he might get sent to the line. Some sort of mental block seems as good a guess as any.

Say what you want about Kyrie but when he shows up he plays well.

I am not unwilling to entertain the idea he has real mental issues of one kind or another - I mean everyone does to some degree, no? - but I think it's not really that. I think straight-up, he's rich & famous spoiled brat, and is being spoon-fed a buffet of LeBron's player empowerment BS. I am pretty sure you could find posts of mine from several years ago calling this. There was stuff on places online, I can't remember where, saying that LeBron told Simmons to demand the supermax contract and give it a year or two before demanding a trade to LA. I don't see that happening but I didn't see the Westbrook trade either , that still happened.

I think he's just a half-egomaniac half-spoiled brat... he's got all the money in the world coming to him, he Keeps Up With Kardashians and has Ferraris and a house with a tree in it etc. And LeBron and Paul are almost certainly just feeding him "You can do whatever you want, we rule the world, don't you know I'm King James and my jersey-seller-at-the-airport-agent has got Adele and btw I'm King James, that mean I'm the boss! I almost dropped out of HS early but I'm super smart , obviously, because I'm really good at running & jumping & shooting basketballs. Therefore, === King James *confirmed.... Thank you for your anticipated cooperation in this matter. Respectfully, -LeBron"

P.S. "Now trade my boy to LA right now. Nevermind about the salary cap. We're entitled. And hurry up about it. Thank you for your time. Again, sincerely, King James."

Well I would say figuring out how to not be a rich & famous spoiled brat is a mental thing too (and probably at least indirectly contributed to the free throw stuff). Clearly doing what he was doing for the last 6 years wasn't addressing what is going on with him. You can compare it to the change in mindset that Lebron had to go through after blowing the 2011 finals. The question is is he using the offseason and now this time to do that versus playing Call of Duty and staging instagram posts. Probably the latter, but my point is he does seem like a clear example of a guy that needs to get his head on straight if he wants to maximize himself on the court (which, maybe he just doesn't.)

And Klutch is clearly playing a role (not sure how involved Lebron is, feel like that has always been overstated) but at the same time they have dozens of clients and most of them don't act like this. For example, Anthony Edwards was also a number one pick and you don't hear the stories about him that you've heard about Ben to some extent since he was in high school. Sure they had AD demand a trade, but so have other players with other agencies like Harden. And Ben is pretty unique from the standpoint of defiantly not addressing a fundamental aspect of basketball.

All reports recently have been that he's fine with going anywhere, not just LA, fwiw.

Mik317 · Post #1728 » by **Mik317** » Mon Oct 4, 2021 3:28 pm

I don't like talking about someone elses mental health.

**** is tricky as ****. Money does not solve all problems either.

And again...taking my own fandom out of it. Ben had one of the WOAT playoff exits. And fair or not; no one having your back right after that had to come as a shock to the system. Also going from untouchable to potentially Houston bound also had to be a hit to the ole ego. If I was in Ben's situation I probably would have acted worse lol. My post game presser would have been even more petty and childish lol. So I do get it. Its hard to take blame yall. However his peeps going the "actually its everyone else who is wrong" route doesn't seem like the right answer either. IDK what is tho.... because coming back to this enviroment after that implosion is rough..and because Morey went full stupid out the gate asking for Jesus and his disciples in return it kinda was always going to lead to this. I might have played the injury card earlier and before all of this back and forth happen actually.

oldschool1 · Post #1729 » by **oldschool1** » Mon Oct 4, 2021 4:48 pm

[quote="Phila Tough"]A lot of what I'm feeling is just disappointment. I really thought Ben was one of us and wanted to win here[/quote]

Exactly my sentiment. At 60 years old, I need to grow up and realize "some" players are not about winning as intensely as most fans are.

spikeslovechild · Post #1730 » by **spikeslovechild** » Mon Oct 4, 2021 5:56 pm

Sixerscan wrote:
Mik317 wrote:who the **** was Horford for if not Ben?

damn sure wasn't there to help Embiid....wtf.

I get the argument that he could help spell Embiid… but a major reason why he was thought to be able to give Embiid more breaks was because he was a very good fit with Simmons. There’s a clear reason they made a move to sign someone with range like Horford as opposed to a more traditional center. It was a move to benefit both of them (though they clearly miscalculated how bad of a fit Embiid and Horford were when they were on the court together), which is how things generally work. Similar thing with Butler, among other reasons they clearly wanted to let Ben handle the ball more.

Apparently some are under the impression that accommodating Simmons means you have to do moves that only benefit him to the detriment of everyone else on the team. Which is wrong/says a lot about what their priorities are (and Ben’s, if this is how he feels).

Howard did just fine Embiid didn't need a stretch five to spell him Simmons did to remain on the court. I was all in on that move when it happened including moving on from Jimmy but that was with the idea of keeping Simmons and having his game develop which never happened.

You couldn't keep Butler and Simmons. Embiid is just sayin a truth that everyone was afraid to admit to. He wanted us to choose Jimmy over Simmons which maybe we should have done but keeping Simmons allowed us to spend money going after FA while still having him under his rookie deal so there were other considerations too

Bum Adebayo · Post #1731 » by **Bum Adebayo** » Mon Oct 4, 2021 8:05 pm

We chose a diva, a primadonna who is allergic to improve his game, over a ultra hard working dude that always gives his best, and why? because hurr durr youth and potential. There is no potential when a player is a primadonna who would rather spend his days playing fortnite and COD and no intention on putting in the work. Give me the hard worker any day of the week. This is why I'm all in to get Sexton, I want a player that works very hard and has at least some potential, even if it's not insane potential.

Trafford10 · Post #1732 » by **Trafford10** » Mon Oct 4, 2021 9:54 pm

Samson wrote:It's funny, the whole "mental health issues" would be a FASCINATING 'injury defense' if he plays that card.

It was already trotted out ... the batstuff-crazy Kyrie Irving busted it out during the - depending on your perspective- 'racial unrest' last year - or you know, when people were burning down police stations, setting up armed occupation zones and telling the cops they can't go in and we just let it happen lol - Irving just didn't play. Not feeling it ... he's sad... *and they still paid him* - and he just would not show up when he didn't feel like it... Sorry not sorry, not feeling it today, there are more important things than basketball, I'm gonna stay home and burn sage and have a nice hot cup of herbal tea...

So I could *totally* see Simmons pulling a Leon Commercial and saying "Coach, I think I just hurt my psyche, can't play..." and they get some hotshot lawyer to make the injury case.

I would laugh at it but it would make a fascinating "legal" case between the NBA, one of their teams, and a disgruntled player. It would be the next big issue. Last year was all about race- and the last thing they wanted was to look bad , this year could be all about mental health, another issue they would be terrified of looking bad on.

It doesn't seem likely Simmons will pull the mental health or injury card. While Simmons has said nothing publicly from what has been reported his agent has said he's ready to play just not at Philadelphia.

Trafford10 · Post #1733 » by **Trafford10** » Mon Oct 4, 2021 10:11 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
Samson wrote:It's funny, the whole "mental health issues" would be a FASCINATING 'injury defense' if he plays that card.

It was already trotted out ... the batstuff-crazy Kyrie Irving busted it out during the - depending on your perspective- 'racial unrest' last year - or you know, when people were burning down police stations, setting up armed occupation zones and telling the cops they can't go in and we just let it happen lol - Irving just didn't play. Not feeling it ... he's sad... *and they still paid him* - and he just would not show up when he didn't feel like it... Sorry not sorry, not feeling it today, there are more important things than basketball, I'm gonna stay home and burn sage and have a nice hot cup of herbal tea...

So I could *totally* see Simmons pulling a Leon Commercial and saying "Coach, I think I just hurt my psyche, can't play..." and they get some hotshot lawyer to make the injury case.

I would laugh at it but it would make a fascinating "legal" case between the NBA, one of their teams, and a disgruntled player. It would be the next big issue. Last year was all about race- and the last thing they wanted was to look bad , this year could be all about mental health, another issue they would be terrified of looking bad on.

Boy that'd be a quick way to kill his valuation. FO discussions will be about how he's mentally unstable and, thus, unplayable in playoff situations. Whether that's true or not doesn't matter, no team will look bad by not offering a ton for him.

The downsides to "mental health issues" as an injury would be 1) attempting that as an injury and failing (thus not getting paid), and 2) his legacy as a player. If he's sitting for over a year due to killing his value and being injured, then he's missing prime years of his play. Then again, maybe he doesn't really care about that if he's collecting a paycheck.

All that said, if he's really having a debilitating mental health decline, I truly hope he is able to make a full recovery.

Clearly Simmons had a lack of confidence issue with shooting in the play off series and the coaches couldn't address it in time. This type of thing is not uncommon in sport and is usually worked through with the coaches and a sports psychologists can really help also.

But look, there is no doubt that Philadelphia (Team & fans) broke up with Ben first and maybe that also played a big part in him losing confidence.

In any event Ben is not coming back and I think it's true he will be a better player somewhere else.

Kobblehead · Post #1734 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Oct 4, 2021 10:15 pm

Stanford wrote:
Tomjas wrote:Don’t hold your breath waiting for Drummond to be a good defender

He’s awful

I think you mean the greatest defender in NBA history, Tomjas

Career 2.3 steal percentage
Career 4.1 block percentage

Phew, phenom.

Post #1735 » by **Stanford** » Mon Oct 4, 2021 10:22 pm

**** i didn't know that!

Kobblehead · Post #1736 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Oct 4, 2021 10:26 pm

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/olajuha01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/drumman01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/garneke01.html

If Drummond didn't suck so much offensively, he'd be one of the best bigs of alltime lol.

DCasey91 · Post #1737 » by **DCasey91** » Mon Oct 4, 2021 10:27 pm

JRoy wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:
JRoy wrote:
I like the squad but don’t that as a top 4 seed.

You know Hart and Roco are great rebounders for their size. Hart averaged 8 last year and Roco we know can rack up the boards

I mean this is pretty much the perfect setup for Zion. You can actually pick and pop with Turner/Zion this time . I mean Zion was absurd even with Adams, Bledsoe, Ingram all in there.

He’s the best finisher since Miami Lebron/Giannis.

30/7/5 on league best efficiency with all this space.

This setup means zero center in the lane (play Turner back). Give Giannis/LBJ this much space and they would destroy.

ZW isn’t half the player LBJ or Giannis is.

Let’s see him play a whole season.

Your right he’s better than Giannis age for age and a level under Lebron.

61 games:

Avg: 27/4.5/3.7
61.1% FG (Think he’s the only one with a 27ppg 60%+ statline).
OWS 7.1
BPM 5.4 (non playoff team)
WS 8.7
WS/48.205

For a 20 year old that is amazing production.

you sure he’s half the player of Giannis/LBJ?

He did that with Adams, Bledsoe and Ingram all in there. Pels have Val they don’t really have a clue and downgraded from Ball to Graham (Ball+ Zion was high octane offense and Ball was at least a good defender).

For me he’s a lot closer than people may think. Already is an elite offensive player.

JRoy · Post #1738 » by **JRoy** » Mon Oct 4, 2021 10:32 pm

DCasey91 wrote:
JRoy wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:
You know Hart and Roco are great rebounders for their size. Hart averaged 8 last year and Roco we know can rack up the boards

I mean this is pretty much the perfect setup for Zion. You can actually pick and pop with Turner/Zion this time . I mean Zion was absurd even with Adams, Bledsoe, Ingram all in there.

He’s the best finisher since Miami Lebron/Giannis.

30/7/5 on league best efficiency with all this space.

This setup means zero center in the lane (play Turner back). Give Giannis/LBJ this much space and they would destroy.

ZW isn’t half the player LBJ or Giannis is.

Let’s see him play a whole season.

Your right he’s better than Giannis age for age and a level under Lebron.

61 games:

Avg: 27/4.5/3.7
61.1% FG
OWS 7.1
BPM 5.4 (non playoff team)
WS 8.7
WS/48.205

For a 20 year old that is amazing production.

U sure he’s half the player of Giannis/LBJ.

For me he’s a lot closer than people may think. Already is an elite offensive player.

He does put up some numbers when he plays.

How’s his defense?

Kobblehead · Post #1739 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Oct 4, 2021 10:36 pm

Zion is fatter than he's even been and currently recovering from a broken foot her suffered in the offseason because he's so heavy. Pelicans should bail on him before he bails on them. Actually get a return for him.

Tomjas · Post #1740 » by **Tomjas** » Mon Oct 4, 2021 10:42 pm

Zion has gone from being the most hyped prospect ever to being underrated if anything

He’s putting up those numbers in a crap scheme

I do wonder about his longevity