Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll

[ET Da Gawd]

D'Angelo Russell vs. Ben Simmons is a worthy debate. Simmons vs. Ingram is so contrived. Nobody can build a good case for taking Ingram.

Huh?? Russell vs Simmons/Ingram is not a debate at all bro....Russell is a huge disappointment, kids slow footed, poor defender, passing was very overrated. Esp for someone people were touting as the next curry. Russell shouldn't have even been a top 15 pick. Didn't TJ avg more assists than him too?

He's talking about if Russell were coming out in the draft this year. Hindsight is always 20/20. But with that said I still wouldn't be struggling to decide between Simmons and Russell. Easy call for me there too.

Well even at OSU he wasn't a world beater, anytime he played a good team outside the Big10 boi struggled. Anyone who watched college consistently could see that.

[Kobblehead]

Just LOL at this...Jah doesn't need to eat off pick n rolls all day to be spoon fed. This is basketball, all 5 players should be able to create their own offense, adding a pick n roll helps offense dynamically but its not a necessity. Look at Hou, they're frustrated Dwight Howard is not a pick n roll big...He doesn't need to be, you play to players strengths. There is nothing wrong with Jahlil isolating if he can take his man, I swear all y'all cats just want to play 5 PGs and launch 3s all game. Its like 2pters are wrong now.

Do you have an affinity for empty stats, offensive proficiency be damned?

[Kobblehead]

Well even at OSU he wasn't a world beater, anytime he played a good team outside the Big10 boi struggled. Anyone who watched college consistently could see that.

He had a great freshman year. Better than Ingram's mediocre one at Duke.

[Unbreakable99]

Well even at OSU he wasn't a world beater, anytime he played a good team outside the Big10 boi struggled. Anyone who watched college consistently could see that.

He had a great freshman year. Better than Ingram's mediocre one at Duke.

Russell may have had a better freshman season but I still would rank Ingram ahead of him. I don't like Russell's foot speed and lack of athleticism at the PG/SG position. Ingram seems like he has more translatable traits to the NBA than Russell. I would take Ingram over Russell pretty easily but both behind Simmons.

[Aussiepiston1]

even if we take Ingram. Okafor or Noel's days are numbered. I think this idea that Jah can play the 4 is lunacy. He's a 5. Noel is also a 5. Embiid, if you can trust him at all.., is also a 5. Embiid will be cool coming off the bench until his body proves it can stay healthy.

And neither guy is elite at anything right now. Jah is a good scorer but often had to take 25 shots to get 25 points. Noel for all his skills often got ate by most bigs due to his frail body. Now of course both guys weren't put in the best of situations but as long as the other is still here...that will not change. Someone has to go.

As it stands however...we don't have a real 4 on the roster. hmmm....funny how that works

I think Saric can be that 4 and think Okafor is the one that has to go unless Simmons or Saric can be an Ibaka type PF which is highly unlikely.
Embiid obviously is our greatest hope for the 5 spot with Noel being his back up as they both could protect the paint and at stretches put Embiid at the 4 spot with the Noel at the 5 and either Ingram or Simmons at the 3 with Saric off the bench.
whether We pick Ingram or Simmons who both fit with Saric , the combination of either Don't fit with Okafor unless He develops into a PF who can block and shoot IMO.

[ET Da Gawd]

Just LOL at this...Jah doesn't need to eat off pick n rolls all day to be spoon fed. This is basketball, all 5 players should be able to create their own offense, adding a pick n roll helps offense dynamically but its not a necessity. Look at Hou, they're frustrated Dwight Howard is not a pick n roll big...He doesn't need to be, you play to players strengths. There is nothing wrong with Jahlil isolating if he can take his man, I swear all y'all cats just want to play 5 PGs and launch 3s all game. Its like 2pters are wrong now.

Do you have an affinity for empty stats, offensive proficiency be damned?

So lemme get this straight, Jahlils offensive stats are empty but Nerlens defensive statistics are not..gotcha boss

[ET Da Gawd]

Well even at OSU he wasn't a world beater, anytime he played a good team outside the Big10 boi struggled. Anyone who watched college consistently could see that.

He had a great freshman year. Better than Ingram's mediocre one at Duke.

I'm not an Ingram fan but lol at this, Ingram played in the ACC, the Big10 is a joke my guy...a good year in the Big10 doesn't mean much

[LongLiveHinkie]

Don't know where else to put this, so I'm putting it here. Embiid declared himself officially healthy and ready to go tonight on Instagram.

[76ciology]

If Sixers selects Simmons, I would assume they know better about Simmons' character and shooting issue. I'd then support Simmons and would likely ask the players we surround him with to adjust for him.

If we select Simmons I hope the ff:
1.) He becomes a good 3pt shooter.
- It's unfair but it's a must in today's game.
2.) He becomes a better defender around the rim.
- Draymond Green is the model for this. Low in block numbers but can alter shots because of mobility, size and athleticism.
3.) Good character and motor.
- He won't be a better shooter, better scorer, better defender and better in making his teammates better without these.
4.) Get a good package for Jah and Noel.
- If we select Simmons, I hope we can surround him with guys who can compliment him.

For now, I'd still stand with my want of drafting Ingram and share my doubts on Simmons.

For Ingram I think he needs the ff:
1.) Continue his improvement in strength/mass
- Allows him to improve his at the rim FG% and rebounding.
2.) Star level ball handling+passing skills
- NBA plus his tools will allow him to penetrate at will. Defensive schemes would require him to solve more complex problems with better ball handling+Passing skills.
3.) Motor
- Needs to get more deflections, attempts at the rim (FTr) and rebounding.

I think right now, most people thinks both are good prospects but some has biases on some traits/preferences than others.

I do think most prefer Simmons because he is the type of player you can surround your offense with how he shown dominance + make teammates better at LSU. You can look at his BPM for this, same with Jah.

I just think the level of competition in NBA is different at SEC/Australia. I have my doubts of Simmons continuing his dominance in the paint at NBA that would see a decline in impact on offense.

I also think that the style in NBA is different in SEC/Australia. Emphasis on shooting, passing and rotation on defense/rim protection shows the game is trending toward hero ball to team ball. I do think Ingram is better suited with how the NBA plays. He's a modern player showing how easy you can make him as a "plug and play." But you can compensate talented "unique" players like jahlil and simmons by the players around him and make it work efficiently.

Best teams? Mostly, plug and play players with superstars having elite level plug and play capabilities.

[Sixerscan]

If Sixers selects Simmons, I would assume they know better about Simmons' character and shooting issue. I'd then support Simmons and would likely ask the players we surround him with to adjust for him.

If we select Simmons I hope the ff:
1.) He becomes a good 3pt shooter.
- It's unfair but it's a must in today's game.
2.) He becomes a better defender around the rim.
- Draymond Green is the model for this. Low in block numbers but can alter shots because of mobility, size and athleticism.
3.) Good character and motor.
- He won't be a better shooter, better scorer, better defender and better in making his teammates better without these.
4.) Get a good package for Jah and Noel.
- If we select Simmons, I hope we can surround him with guys who can compliment him.

For now, I'd still stand with my want of drafting Ingram and share my doubts on Simmons.

For Ingram I think he needs the ff:
1.) Continue his improvement in strength/mass
- Allows him to improve his at the rim FG% and rebounding.
2.) Star level ball handling+passing skills
- NBA plus his tools will allow him to penetrate at will. Defensive schemes would require him to solve more complex problems with better ball handling+Passing skills.
3.) Motor
- Needs to get more deflections, attempts at the rim (FTr) and rebounding.

I think right now, most people thinks both are good prospects but some has biases on some traits/preferences than others.

I do think most prefer Simmons because he is the type of player you can surround your offense with how he shown dominance + make teammates better at LSU. You can look at his BPM for this, same with Jah.

I just think the level of competition in NBA is different at SEC/Australia. I have my doubts of Simmons continuing his dominance in the paint at NBA that would see a decline in impact on offense.

I also think that the style in NBA is different in SEC/Australia. Emphasis on shooting, passing and rotation on defense/rim protection shows the game is trending toward hero ball to team ball. I do think Ingram is better suited with how the NBA plays. But you can compensate talented "unique" players like jahlil and simmons by the players around him and make it work efficiently.

Noel is a very good compliment to simmons. Unless you are saying that you NEED a shooter with him in which case it's pretty much just Ibaka that brings everything Noel does plus shooting. Simmons needs a rim protector on defense a lot more than he needs shooting from all 4 other spots on offense.

[LongLiveHinkie]

3 weeks to go and I'm already tired of Simmons vs Ingram. Just get to the damn draft already.

[Mik317]

I mean if a guy all about passing isn't a team ball player then i don't know who is.

Like there are super valid reasons to knock Simmons...but you constantly come up with the wrong ones

[76ciology]

I mean if a guy all about passing isn't a team ball player then i don't know who is.

Like there are super valid reasons to knock Simmons...but you constantly come up with the wrong ones

Referring more being on ball dominant on offense or needing to have the ball than high volume scorers nonpassers like Wiggins, AI or Melo.

Balanced shooters/passers/ballhandlers can have positive impact with or without the ball where if without the ball they can provide spacing for their teammates to operate. With the ball, they can drive and draw if defenders stay close at them at the perimeter.

I also stated that I do see a decline of his dominance in the paint due to level of competition in the NBA that might also lead to a decline in making his teammates better.

*referring to the simmons version where his shooting is at current level

[76ciology]

If Sixers selects Simmons, I would assume they know better about Simmons' character and shooting issue. I'd then support Simmons and would likely ask the players we surround him with to adjust for him.

If we select Simmons I hope the ff:
1.) He becomes a good 3pt shooter.
- It's unfair but it's a must in today's game.
2.) He becomes a better defender around the rim.
- Draymond Green is the model for this. Low in block numbers but can alter shots because of mobility, size and athleticism.
3.) Good character and motor.
- He won't be a better shooter, better scorer, better defender and better in making his teammates better without these.
4.) Get a good package for Jah and Noel.
- If we select Simmons, I hope we can surround him with guys who can compliment him.

For now, I'd still stand with my want of drafting Ingram and share my doubts on Simmons.

For Ingram I think he needs the ff:
1.) Continue his improvement in strength/mass
- Allows him to improve his at the rim FG% and rebounding.
2.) Star level ball handling+passing skills
- NBA plus his tools will allow him to penetrate at will. Defensive schemes would require him to solve more complex problems with better ball handling+Passing skills.
3.) Motor
- Needs to get more deflections, attempts at the rim (FTr) and rebounding.

I think right now, most people thinks both are good prospects but some has biases on some traits/preferences than others.

I do think most prefer Simmons because he is the type of player you can surround your offense with how he shown dominance + make teammates better at LSU. You can look at his BPM for this, same with Jah.

I just think the level of competition in NBA is different at SEC/Australia. I have my doubts of Simmons continuing his dominance in the paint at NBA that would see a decline in impact on offense.

I also think that the style in NBA is different in SEC/Australia. Emphasis on shooting, passing and rotation on defense/rim protection shows the game is trending toward hero ball to team ball. I do think Ingram is better suited with how the NBA plays. But you can compensate talented "unique" players like jahlil and simmons by the players around him and make it work efficiently.

Noel is a very good compliment to simmons. Unless you are saying that you NEED a shooter with him in which case it's pretty much just Ibaka that brings everything Noel does plus shooting. Simmons needs a rim protector on defense a lot more than he needs shooting from all 4 other spots on offense.

Agree that Noel is a good fit for simmons. Ideally, it's a rim protector + shooter. Was hoping to trade Jah + Noel for more help at the perimeter for Simmons and to shift towards pace and space type basketball than playing big. While I have Embiid at the C position, with Noel being redundant and is a bad fit IMO to play with another big + spacing issue of all three in the paint.

[Mik317]

I mean if a guy all about passing isn't a team ball player then i don't know who is.

Like there are super valid reasons to knock Simmons...but you constantly come up with the wrong ones

Referring more being on ball dominant on offense or needing to have the ball to have impact than a ball hog.

Balanced shooters/passers/ballhandlers can have positive impact with or without the ball where if without the ball they can provide spacing for their teammates to operate. With the ball, they can drive and draw if defenders stay close at them at the perimeter.

I also stated that I do see a decline of his dominance in the paint due to level of competition in the NBA that might also lead to a decline in making his teammates better.

*referring to the simmons version where his shooting is at current level

Simmons can cut off the ball but regardless being ball dominant is only really a problem when they guy needs it to score and never gets others involved. This was Jah's issue this year. Simmons if anything needs to shoot more so I imagine he'd look to get others involved more than anything. The ball probably won't stick in Simmons' hands for too long.

As for his finishing, It won't be the crazy high number it was at LSU but I don't think he's going to stuggle there. Dude is big and strong but most importantly is able to hang in the air (he does so on those weird off hand hook thingies he goes to often in the post). Dudes bounce off of him.

Look he needs to get that jumper. That is the big deal, no doubt. He is not flawless at all but you are now looking for more and more reasons against him. I like Ingram a lot. If we take him, I am more than cool with it. But the simple fact that you are able to overlook Ingram's flaws but constantly harp on Simmons' ones hurts any point you make. It reads as if you are trying to convince yourself more than us. Like your guy, praise him, show cool **** about him...because there is a lot to like. But spending so much of your time looking for validation is pointless. You know who you like. Others don't agree. Nothing you say will change either of these things man.

Yes it is a message board. A free country. But holy **** man

[76ciology]

If Sixers selects Simmons, I would assume they know better about Simmons' character and shooting issue. I'd then support Simmons and would likely ask the players we surround him with to adjust for him.

If we select Simmons I hope the ff:
1.) He becomes a good 3pt shooter.
- It's unfair but it's a must in today's game.
2.) He becomes a better defender around the rim.
- Draymond Green is the model for this. Low in block numbers but can alter shots because of mobility, size and athleticism.
3.) Good character and motor.
- He won't be a better shooter, better scorer, better defender and better in making his teammates better without these.
4.) Get a good package for Jah and Noel.
- If we select Simmons, I hope we can surround him with guys who can compliment him.

For now, I'd still stand with my want of drafting Ingram and share my doubts on Simmons.

For Ingram I think he needs the ff:
1.) Continue his improvement in strength/mass
- Allows him to improve his at the rim FG% and rebounding.
2.) Star level ball handling+passing skills
- NBA plus his tools will allow him to penetrate at will. Defensive schemes would require him to solve more complex problems with better ball handling+Passing skills.
3.) Motor
- Needs to get more deflections, attempts at the rim (FTr) and rebounding.

I think right now, most people thinks both are good prospects but some has biases on some traits/preferences than others.

I do think most prefer Simmons because he is the type of player you can surround your offense with how he shown dominance + make teammates better at LSU. You can look at his BPM for this, same with Jah.

I just think the level of competition in NBA is different at SEC/Australia. I have my doubts of Simmons continuing his dominance in the paint at NBA that would see a decline in impact on offense.

I also think that the style in NBA is different in SEC/Australia. Emphasis on shooting, passing and rotation on defense/rim protection shows the game is trending toward hero ball to team ball. I do think Ingram is better suited with how the NBA plays. He's a modern player showing how easy you can make him as a "plug and play." But you can compensate talented "unique" players like jahlil and simmons by the players around him and make it work efficiently.

Best teams? Mostly, plug and play players with superstars having elite level plug and play capabilities.

https://thecauldron.si.com/despite-huge-numbers-ben-simmons-is-showing-some-flaws-3c83239cd2c2#.osua38rix

For as good as Simmons has been, a big man who needs the ball in his hands, can’t stretch the floor, has a sub-standard reach, and doesn’t give great effort on defense isn’t necessarily going to make his team better if he doesn’t have the right supporting cast around him.

[ratrac]

3 weeks to go and I'm already tired of Simmons vs Ingram. Just get to the damn draft already.

Better than discussing whether should we draft Dunn or Murray at the 3rd spot, necessary evil.

[NJ SixerFan]

I was team Ingram for awhile but have changed sides to team simmons. Although I still like Ingram a lot. I just don't see how jah fits at center when our forwards are not going to be able to protect the paint. My hopes are that Simmons can play the SF position with a guy like saric playing pf. Embiid fits perfectly as a potential 2 way monster. No way I move noel until embiid proves to be healthy. If embiid never works out noel slides right into the center position seamlessly. Obviously without the offensive game embiid seems to possess.

[Sixerscan]

If Sixers selects Simmons, I would assume they know better about Simmons' character and shooting issue. I'd then support Simmons and would likely ask the players we surround him with to adjust for him.

If we select Simmons I hope the ff:
1.) He becomes a good 3pt shooter.
- It's unfair but it's a must in today's game.
2.) He becomes a better defender around the rim.
- Draymond Green is the model for this. Low in block numbers but can alter shots because of mobility, size and athleticism.
3.) Good character and motor.
- He won't be a better shooter, better scorer, better defender and better in making his teammates better without these.
4.) Get a good package for Jah and Noel.
- If we select Simmons, I hope we can surround him with guys who can compliment him.

For now, I'd still stand with my want of drafting Ingram and share my doubts on Simmons.

For Ingram I think he needs the ff:
1.) Continue his improvement in strength/mass
- Allows him to improve his at the rim FG% and rebounding.
2.) Star level ball handling+passing skills
- NBA plus his tools will allow him to penetrate at will. Defensive schemes would require him to solve more complex problems with better ball handling+Passing skills.
3.) Motor
- Needs to get more deflections, attempts at the rim (FTr) and rebounding.

I think right now, most people thinks both are good prospects but some has biases on some traits/preferences than others.

I do think most prefer Simmons because he is the type of player you can surround your offense with how he shown dominance + make teammates better at LSU. You can look at his BPM for this, same with Jah.

I just think the level of competition in NBA is different at SEC/Australia. I have my doubts of Simmons continuing his dominance in the paint at NBA that would see a decline in impact on offense.

I also think that the style in NBA is different in SEC/Australia. Emphasis on shooting, passing and rotation on defense/rim protection shows the game is trending toward hero ball to team ball. I do think Ingram is better suited with how the NBA plays. But you can compensate talented "unique" players like jahlil and simmons by the players around him and make it work efficiently.

Noel is a very good compliment to simmons. Unless you are saying that you NEED a shooter with him in which case it's pretty much just Ibaka that brings everything Noel does plus shooting. Simmons needs a rim protector on defense a lot more than he needs shooting from all 4 other spots on offense.

Agree that Noel is a good fit for simmons. Ideally, it's a rim protector + shooter. Was hoping to trade Jah + Noel for more help at the perimeter for Simmons and to shift towards pace and space type basketball than playing big. While I have Embiid at the C position, with Noel being redundant and is a bad fit IMO to play with another big + spacing issue of all three in the paint.

Even if Embiid was healthy, you should want more than one rim protector on the team. Anyway, it's easy to see a second unit with Noel and saric playing very well together.

[KG_Wolves]

Take Ingram and don't look back, this Simmons kid is a major project and may not ever come good.

Ok. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but if someone is a major project then I need to ask you where you would rank him in this draft. Where should he be drafted?

2nd is fine, let the Lakers gamble on him and most likely lose as he becomes Lamar Odom without a jumper