Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4

[ckchen]

I’m good with Lowry - championship teams need a non-star voice who can command the room & he’s our version of it.

If sh*t hits the fan in the playoffs, we all know Maxey is play 45-46 minutes anyway.

I like Lowry if we didn’t already sign Gordon. I feel like they are a bit redundant. It’s not the end of the world. But I wouldn’t be looking to add any more old vets to this roster unless they can really play.

Tyus Jones and GTJ would've been my first choices, but not sure of the redundancy with Gordon and Lowry. They offer different options at the guard spot.

They still have four spots (two if they go KJ and open roster spot). I expect they will add a couple forwards now. Slim pickings when it comes to the minimums. Interested to hear you would've gone for.

Either way, hopefully they add at least one more impactful player during the season which would make Lowry/Gordon like 7th or 8th guys at best.

I think a few people have already said that Tyus is clearly looking for more than a vet min contract - and Gary Trent, Jr. DEFINITELY is. Of course they would have been your first choice, but it's almost certain that neither or those guys are available for vet min.

People complaining about why are we signing all of these old guys - it's because they are the ones who usually know when the market has settled for them and that all they can get is a veteran's minimum. People were talking about Josh Okogie as a vet minimum, but he just got $8M a year, even Saddiq Bey (who others were also mentioning) who will probably sit an entire season got a 3 yr/$20M deal. Most of these younger guys don't want to admit that their market has narrowed to only minimum deals - and as we are seeing, in a bunch of cases, they are right.

There are tons of people out there now saying, why don't we just sign Precious Achiuwa to a minimum deal - same thing. He's holding out for more, and has a decent chance there might be a team willing to give it to him.

The only hope for getting someone like that is to sit the entire market out, hope every team with cap space closes up shop, and every team with an exception does the same. If they're still sitting out there then, that's the time to question why. Not now.

[ckchen]

Rather than rehash the same names, anyone know anything or have any takes on Dominick Barlow or Poku as possible PF depth? Think I'd rather take a chance on youth versus rust buckets.

I'm the one who has been mentioning Poku as an option the most, but he's really more of a flyer at this point. He would occasionally show some flashes when he was on a Process-like OKC team early in his career, but his shooting has not been great. That said, I would be more than willing to take a chance on a youngish 7 ft forward who has occasionally flashed than someone completely washed.

I'm not sure the Nurse or the team thinks the same, because they are in "championship mode" I don't really think they would be willing to gamble on someone like this bc Nurse probably won't trust them to give them any PT, so what would be the point in the first place?

The more damning thing was that Poku was already on a non-guaranteed minimum salary deal when he was waived. I suggested that we claim him off waivers, but not only did we not, but I don't think any team did, which can't say much about what the league thinks of him. The other real issue is that he's European, and no matter how questionable he might be here, there is bound to be a European team who would gladly pay him way more to go back there to play, so it might be hard to compete financially unless he's adamant about staying in the NBA.

[LeonJordanJr24]

Lowry and Gordan with Maxey and McCain is damn good guard rotation I'm cool with it.

KJ Martin , Council ,Oubre and George in wings is very very official .

Pf is mauhhhh lol let's get it together.

Embiid,Drummond and Bona at center is tough

[HotelVitale]

The other real issue is that he's European, and no matter how questionable he might be here, there is bound to be a European team who would gladly pay him way more to go back there to play, so it might be hard to compete financially unless he's adamant about staying in the NBA.

That's not how this works generally.

[Iscull]

Lowry and Gordan with Maxey and McCain is damn good guard rotation I'm cool with it.

KJ Martin , Council ,Oubre and George in wings is very very official .

Pf is mauhhhh lol let's get it together.

Embiid,Drummond and Bona at center is tough

I think PF is only going to be meh against certain teams with big PF’s. Indiana, Minnesota, and Orlando as an example.

Hopefully we get one more vet who’s more of a PF/C.

[Sixerscan]

I like Lowry if we didn’t already sign Gordon. I feel like they are a bit redundant. It’s not the end of the world. But I wouldn’t be looking to add any more old vets to this roster unless they can really play.

Tyus Jones and GTJ would've been my first choices, but not sure of the redundancy with Gordon and Lowry. They offer different options at the guard spot.

They still have four spots (two if they go KJ and open roster spot). I expect they will add a couple forwards now. Slim pickings when it comes to the minimums. Interested to hear you would've gone for.

Either way, hopefully they add at least one more impactful player during the season which would make Lowry/Gordon like 7th or 8th guys at best.

I think a few people have already said that Tyus is clearly looking for more than a vet min contract - and Gary Trent, Jr. DEFINITELY is. Of course they would have been your first choice, but it's almost certain that neither or those guys are available for vet min.

People complaining about why are we signing all of these old guys - it's because they are the ones who usually know when the market has settled for them and that all they can get is a veteran's minimum. People were talking about Josh Okogie as a vet minimum, but he just got $8M a year, even Saddiq Bey (who others were also mentioning) who will probably sit an entire season got a 3 yr/$20M deal. Most of these younger guys don't want to admit that their market has narrowed to only minimum deals - and as we are seeing, in a bunch of cases, they are right.

There are tons of people out there now saying, why don't we just sign Precious Achiuwa to a minimum deal - same thing. He's holding out for more, and has a decent chance there might be a team willing to give it to him.

The only hope for getting someone like that is to sit the entire market out, hope every team with cap space closes up shop, and every team with an exception does the same. If they're still sitting out there then, that's the time to question why. Not now.

Also these signings don’t stop them from also trying to wait someone out. They still have plenty of open roster spots and they did it with Harrell and Oubre the last two offseasons. I’ll be pretty surprised if they sign even 14 guaranteed contracts by the end of the month.

Of course it doesn’t always work out.

[ckchen]

The other real issue is that he's European, and no matter how questionable he might be here, there is bound to be a European team who would gladly pay him way more to go back there to play, so it might be hard to compete financially unless he's adamant about staying in the NBA.

That's not how this works generally.

What does that even mean? European players definitely view playing in Europe as a stronger alternative than others, especially when there is potential for more money on the table. He's currently on the Serbian Olympic team and if there's a stronger showing there, he could easily command a far bigger deal to go back to European team to play there and might even view it as a better alternative if he's only getting minimum contract offers in the NBA.

What am I missing? Please explain "how this works" then.

[ckchen]

Also these signings don’t stop them from also trying to wait someone out. They still have plenty of open roster spots and they did it with Harrell and Oubre the last two offseasons. I’ll be pretty surprised if they sign even 14 guaranteed contracts by the end of the month.

Of course it doesn’t always work out.

Definitely, the Oubre signing is a perfect example. They didn't sign him until the end of September last year. People are going to have to be a lot more patient if they're hoping for a similar type of gift to land in their laps.

[LeonJordanJr24]

Any interest in Poku or Lamar Stevens?

[HotelVitale]

The other real issue is that he's European, and no matter how questionable he might be here, there is bound to be a European team who would gladly pay him way more to go back there to play, so it might be hard to compete financially unless he's adamant about staying in the NBA.

That's not how this works generally.

What does that even mean? European players definitely view playing in Europe as a stronger alternative than others, especially when there is potential for more money on the table. He's currently on the Serbian Olympic team and if there's a stronger showing there, he could easily command a far bigger deal to go back to European team to play there and might even view it as a better alternative if he's only getting minimum contract offers in the NBA. What am I missing? Please explain "how this works" then.

First the largest salaries in Europe aren't far off from the vet minimum in the NBA. Taxes work differently there (and they often pay for living expenses too) so it's not a straightforward comparison but literal MVPs and the most in-demand guys in various leagues in Europe make like $2m. No one really makes more than about $3m. $4m would be like Kobe-MJ money in Europe. Players can virtually never make more money there than in the NBA, they'll only tend to shift back if things aren't working well in the NBA (or if they get older and get tired of being an 11th man and would rather be a star back home).

Second Poku's not a very good player, and he hasn't proven himself at all in international leagues. The type of player you're talking about who might get poached is an older vet who's already a FIBA star and maybe already had quite a bit of euro-league or top league success, but maybe just didn't manage to make an impact in the NBA. Guys like Mirotic or Melli or Satoransky (or like JC Navarro or Teodosic from the last generation), who everyone's 100% sure will come in and be top, top players. And again they still all only make like $2-3m (though again with a different tax situation).

Also European teams won't 'gladly pay' guys because they're European, they'll pay you if you're good. Poku was drafted as a random project before he'd ever been a good Euro player (like at all) and he didn't seem to develop very well. Someone would probably take a chance on him, but it's not going to be for very much money.

[76ciology]

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[jstross]

Both teams can only offer the vet minimum, right?

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[sixers hoops]

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Pretty surprising, if true. I thought his issue with Nurse would be a possible obstacle to overcome, but him eventually deciding to take the vet min I didn’t find realistic. If he does choose Sixers at the min, then his rift with Nurse doesn’t appear that bad.

[sixers hoops]

Both teams can only offer the vet minimum, right?

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Yes

[FireMorey]

Not buying him taking the minimum.

[sixers hoops]

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This guy followed the tweet up saying Denver Nuggets are now the frontrunner.

[76ciology]

For the past few days, I’ve been reflecting on Nick Nurse’s answer in an interview in our summer league game a couple of days ago about the current trend in basketball. He pointed to the 5-out offense, which the Celtics have used to dominate the playoffs. As with all trends, some teams will copy it, and others will structure their rosters to counter it. This constant “copy and counter” cycle makes winning back-to-back titles incredibly challenging.

The 5-out offense works by breaking down the defense, usually through an alpha player attacking a mismatch. The 1 and 5 positions are often targeted. I believe Maxey will improve defensively next season, and we've added strong defensive wings in the offseason, so I don't think teams will find it easy to exploit us.

Ultimately, most possessions comes down to the alpha scorer attacking favorable matchups or the supporting players making shots against close-out defenders. In our case, Kelly Oubre’s shooting could be crucial. He shot 33% from corner threes in the regular season and 42% in the playoffs. If Oubre struggles, we can substitute him with a better shooter, though this might weaken our defense, requiring increased defensive effort to compensate.

Against the Celtics, it could all come down to a points-per-possession contest, with Tatum or Porzingis targeting Maxey on defense while Oubre's 3-point shooting is put to the test.

I like the fit of Eric Gordon, Kyle Lowry, and Ricky Council. They can be neutral defenders who don’t give up high points per possession to weak alpha scorers while also being reliable shooters or providing another shooting option.

The biggest weakness of this wing-heavy, switch-heavy lineup is offensive rebounding. Specially for us where we’re not as good in 3pt shooting compared to probably the Knicks or definitely the Celtics. This is where Drummond comes in, giving us extra possessions during non-Embiid minutes. Additionally, players like Caleb Martin or Kelly Oubre at the SG position, or being defended by weaker defenders, could help with offensive rebounds, much like Josh Hart.

In the end, it’s all about winning points per possession battle, generating a ton of extra possessions, and having backup options when variance kicks in.

Spoiler:

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[LeonJordanJr24]

Can we sign and trade KJ right away and not wait till deadline?

[ckchen]

Can we sign and trade KJ right away and not wait till deadline?

Pretty sure any sign-and-trade immediately hard caps a team. Also, if the salary is significant, he's subject to base year compensation, so you can only take back 1/2 the value. Not sure what else, but these two issues alone pretty much make it highly unlikely we would ever sign-and-trade him right away.

[ckchen]

Not buying him taking the minimum.

Me neither. This smells like fiction to me also. Do we know if the raptors renounced his rights? If not, I gotta think he's at least thinking there are sign-and-trade scenarios available to him to earn more this season (and beyond), if there are truly no teams with salary cap space or exceptions who would be willing to sign him.