Where is Nerlens?

[TTP]

Nerlens future role should be starting PF alongside Embiid and back up 5. All indications suggest he can be elite in this role. 1. He does clog up lane for Embiid. 2. He is elite steals on perimeter so he can certainly defend 4's. 3. PF size, agility and quickness.

I think this is sixers fans way of trying to rationalize matching brooklyns inevitable max contract offer too noel.

Noel is a good player. Heck, in the next few years he can become very good. But max contracts never work out for teams on players who are not truly elite, much less on a guy who happens to play the same position as our clearly best player.

Sixers fans need to realize that Noel on a max contrat is a net negative. Could we pay him whatever the next few years and still get away with it given our other contracts? Yeah, probably. But the smart move is use the would-be noel money elswhere. Trading Noel for a late first doesnt do it for more. I hold Noel... even if he helps us move from 5th pick to 3rd pick in draft,hes worth it. If we lose him for nothing, it wouldnt be the worst thing in the world.

The process was always about finding guys like embiid who are clear cut max guys, as opposed to very good but not dominant guys like Noel who cost you max money.

Losing him for nothing is terrible and I'm fairly sure he won't be tradeable at the draft as an unsigned RFA.

[Sixerfan86]

How is paying him $25 mill for the next 4 years to play at most 15-20 min a game such a good idea?

If this were a generic team and generic player, and the choice was to spend $25 mill/year on a backup center player 15-20 min a game (with 7-8 of those min out of position) or at some point (maybe not this year) upgrading your starting pg (30+ min/game), starting sg (30+ min/game) and improving your bench, its a no brainer. People are too emotional when it comes to Noel because of what he represents. If embiid werent on the team, i could see the argument for overpaying Noel slightly. But there is no rational argument for paying a backup player a max contract.

[the_process]

How is paying him $25 mill for the next 4 years to play at most 15-20 min a game such a good idea?

If this were a generic team and generic player, and the choice was to spend $25 mill/year on a backup center player 15-20 min a game (with 7-8 of those min out of position) or at some point (maybe not this year) upgrading your starting pg (30+ min/game), starting sg (30+ min/game) and improving your bench, its a no brainer. People are too emotional when it comes to Noel because of what he represents. If embiid werent on the team, i could see the argument for overpaying Noel slightly. But there is no rational argument for paying a backup player a max contract.

Maybe because you don't throw away assets for nothing, and even on a max contract there would be a trade market for Noel?

But that's assuming you think Noel gets a max, and unless Milwaukee somehow clears their cap sheet I'm not seeing where a full max offer comes from. MAYBE Dallas. Brooklyn if they manage to move Lopez in the next week is also a maybe, but supposedly they are going after Otto Porter first and foremost.

[TTP]

How is paying him $25 mill for the next 4 years to play at most 15-20 min a game such a good idea?

If this were a generic team and generic player, and the choice was to spend $25 mill/year on a backup center player 15-20 min a game (with 7-8 of those min out of position) or at some point (maybe not this year) upgrading your starting pg (30+ min/game), starting sg (30+ min/game) and improving your bench, its a no brainer. People are too emotional when it comes to Noel because of what he represents. If embiid werent on the team, i could see the argument for overpaying Noel slightly. But there is no rational argument for paying a backup player a max contract.

Where in my post did I indicate I would do that?

[Sixerfan86]

How is paying him $25 mill for the next 4 years to play at most 15-20 min a game such a good idea?

If this were a generic team and generic player, and the choice was to spend $25 mill/year on a backup center player 15-20 min a game (with 7-8 of those min out of position) or at some point (maybe not this year) upgrading your starting pg (30+ min/game), starting sg (30+ min/game) and improving your bench, its a no brainer. People are too emotional when it comes to Noel because of what he represents. If embiid werent on the team, i could see the argument for overpaying Noel slightly. But there is no rational argument for paying a backup player a max contract.

Maybe because you don't throw away assets for nothing, and even on a max contract there would be a trade market for Noel?

But that's assuming you think Noel gets a max, and unless Milwaukee somehow clears their cap sheet I'm not seeing where a full max offer comes from. MAYBE Dallas. Brooklyn if they manage to move Lopez in the next week is also a maybe, but supposedly they are going after Otto Porter first and foremost.

Lopez is on the books for only 1 more year. Everyday there are reports of nets open to tradiimg him. Whether or not lopez is on the team wont disincentivze offering Noel a max deal. They offered a ton of money to allen crabbe and tyler johnson last summer. The notion that they would somehow hold back on a more proven, higher upside player like noel is unrealistic.

I think they will go after porter. (Id be shocked if washington doesnt match.) however, porter and noel are not mutally exclusive for brooklyn with their current cap and roster.

Im not sure how much of an "asset" wed be throwing away by letting noel walk. An asset is either a) the players trade value throughout the league or b) value of player to his own team relative to his cost. My guess Is that if we went to trade Noel today, we wouldnt be offered more than a late first rounder. On the flip side, hes not much of an asset to us if hes utilized primarily as a backup center.

I think the strongest argument to be made by the pro-noel camp (and i support this) is to spend the last 30 games playing Noel and embiid together. If they look good, you could at least justify paying Noel more than if you intended to only play him 15 min a night. Under no scenario is he worth a max.

Its not a surprise someone like Tom Moore had a column a week ago that the sixers should look to trade Noel... for no other reason than hes probably not worth what he will most likely cost this summer.

From my perspective, given how little his trade value is right now, as well the fact we havent seen noel and embiid together really, its worth it to hold Noel past deadline. Having said that, because i think it is very likely brooklyn maxes noel out, as fans i think we should come to realize that having the discipline to move on from Noel is in the long-term best interest of the team even if we lost whatever impct hed make to our team over 15 min a game next year.

[spikeslovechild]

How is paying him $25 mill for the next 4 years to play at most 15-20 min a game such a good idea?

If this were a generic team and generic player, and the choice was to spend $25 mill/year on a backup center player 15-20 min a game (with 7-8 of those min out of position) or at some point (maybe not this year) upgrading your starting pg (30+ min/game), starting sg (30+ min/game) and improving your bench, its a no brainer. People are too emotional when it comes to Noel because of what he represents. If embiid werent on the team, i could see the argument for overpaying Noel slightly. But there is no rational argument for paying a backup player a max contract.

Maybe because you don't throw away assets for nothing, and even on a max contract there would be a trade market for Noel?

But that's assuming you think Noel gets a max, and unless Milwaukee somehow clears their cap sheet I'm not seeing where a full max offer comes from. MAYBE Dallas. Brooklyn if they manage to move Lopez in the next week is also a maybe, but supposedly they are going after Otto Porter first and foremost.

Lopez is on the books for only 1 more year. Everyday there are reports of nets open to tradiimg him. Whether or not lopez is on the team wont disincentivze offering Noel a max deal. They offered a ton of money to allen crabbe and tyler johnson last summer. The notion that they would somehow hold back on a more proven, higher upside player like noel is unrealistic.

I think they will go after porter. (Id be shocked if washington doesnt match.) however, porter and noel are not mutally exclusive for brooklyn with their current cap and roster.

Im not sure how much of an "asset" wed be throwing away by letting noel walk. An asset is either a) the players trade value throughout the league or b) value of player to his own team relative to his cost. My guess Is that if we went to trade Noel today, we wouldnt be offered more than a late first rounder. On the flip side, hes not much of an asset to us if hes utilized primarily as a backup center.

I think the strongest argument to be made by the pro-noel camp (and i support this) is to spend the last 30 games playing Noel and embiid together. If they look good, you could at least justify paying Noel more than if you intended to only play him 15 min a night. Under no scenario is he worth a max.

Its not a surprise someone like Tom Moore had a column a week ago that the sixers should look to trade Noel... for no other reason than hes probably not worth what he will most likely cost this summer.

From my perspective, given how little his trade value is right now, as well the fact we havent seen noel and embiid together really, its worth it to hold Noel past deadline. Having said that, because i think it is very likely brooklyn maxes noel out, as fans i think we should come to realize that having the discipline to move on from Noel is in the long-term best interest of the team even if we lost whatever impct hed make to our team over 15 min a game next year.

You are wasting your breath. All they will say is he can still be moved after signing an extension. Like somehow him being a max or near max player increases his value.

I do want to say I have to give Noel credit. He's grown from where he was last year. The calculus remains unchanged though. If anything the math gets harder because really the only way he was staying is if he had a down year and there was little RFA interest so we could either sign him to backup money or RFA 1 year deal.

[the_process]

How is paying him $25 mill for the next 4 years to play at most 15-20 min a game such a good idea?

If this were a generic team and generic player, and the choice was to spend $25 mill/year on a backup center player 15-20 min a game (with 7-8 of those min out of position) or at some point (maybe not this year) upgrading your starting pg (30+ min/game), starting sg (30+ min/game) and improving your bench, its a no brainer. People are too emotional when it comes to Noel because of what he represents. If embiid werent on the team, i could see the argument for overpaying Noel slightly. But there is no rational argument for paying a backup player a max contract.

Maybe because you don't throw away assets for nothing, and even on a max contract there would be a trade market for Noel?

But that's assuming you think Noel gets a max, and unless Milwaukee somehow clears their cap sheet I'm not seeing where a full max offer comes from. MAYBE Dallas. Brooklyn if they manage to move Lopez in the next week is also a maybe, but supposedly they are going after Otto Porter first and foremost.

Lopez is on the books for only 1 more year. Everyday there are reports of nets open to tradiimg him. Whether or not lopez is on the team wont disincentivze offering Noel a max deal. They offered a ton of money to allen crabbe and tyler johnson last summer. The notion that they would somehow hold back on a more proven, higher upside player like noel is unrealistic.

I think they will go after porter. (Id be shocked if washington doesnt match.) however, porter and noel are not mutally exclusive for brooklyn with their current cap and roster.

Im not sure how much of an "asset" wed be throwing away by letting noel walk. An asset is either a) the players trade value throughout the league or b) value of player to his own team relative to his cost. My guess Is that if we went to trade Noel today, we wouldnt be offered more than a late first rounder. On the flip side, hes not much of an asset to us if hes utilized primarily as a backup center.

I think the strongest argument to be made by the pro-noel camp (and i support this) is to spend the last 30 games playing Noel and embiid together. If they look good, you could at least justify paying Noel more than if you intended to only play him 15 min a night. Under no scenario is he worth a max.

Its not a surprise someone like Tom Moore had a column a week ago that the sixers should look to trade Noel... for no other reason than hes probably not worth what he will most likely cost this summer.

From my perspective, given how little his trade value is right now, as well the fact we havent seen noel and embiid together really, its worth it to hold Noel past deadline. Having said that, because i think it is very likely brooklyn maxes noel out, as fans i think we should come to realize that having the discipline to move on from Noel is in the long-term best interest of the team even if we lost whatever impct hed make to our team over 15 min a game next year.

Noel isn't signing an offer sheet in BKN if Lopez is still there IMO. And the Sixers really want to move Okafor, it's not helping them get it done, is it?

I'm not against trading Noel if there's a good deal out there to be had. If not, you go into the summer and let Noel test RFA, and then match whatever he gets. Maybe you can work out a S&T, who knows.

[kukenotas]

We should never try biid noel simons. Noel is not 4 and never will be. The only strech 4 i can see is jah.

sixers, it was always sixers

[Negrodamus]

We should never try biid noel simons. Noel is not 4 and never will be. The only strech 4 i can see is jah.

sixers, it was always sixers

Why? Okafor can't even guard 5s? What makes you think he can guard a faster, more athletic big man. Noel would have a better chance at doing that.

[Kobblehead]

http://hoopshype.com/2017/02/16/nerlens-noel-is-excited-about-the-sixers-progress-even-amid-trade-rumors-and-center-logjam/

Good article on Noel's change of heart and newfound high spirits.

[spikeslovechild]

We should never try biid noel simons. Noel is not 4 and never will be. The only strech 4 i can see is jah.

sixers, it was always sixers

Why? Okafor can't even guard 5s? What makes you think he can guard a faster, more athletic big man. Noel would have a better chance at doing that.

Agreed I made point I could potentially see him as a 4 as he continued to expand his range. On offense he actually operates well in space.

On defense it was always going to be a work in progress. However, if at this point all that goes out the window if we don't trade him and we really should we need to focus on getting him back to where he was last year where he can at least be productive as an offensive center so pardon my french he actually has a role on a NBA team. Right now he's useless.

[TTP]

We should never try biid noel simons. Noel is not 4 and never will be. The only strech 4 i can see is jah.

sixers, it was always sixers

Yeah we should try out all of these ridiculous possibilities with our bust of a prospect but not give one of our most successful prospects a chance to see if he can co-exist with our two centerpieces. That is illogical.

[Unbreakable99]

We should never try biid noel simons. Noel is not 4 and never will be. The only strech 4 i can see is jah.

sixers, it was always sixers

Okafor is not a stretch 4 and likely will never be a stretch 4.

[Sixerfan86]

We should never try biid noel simons. Noel is not 4 and never will be. The only strech 4 i can see is jah.

sixers, it was always sixers

Yeah we should try out all of these ridiculous possibilities with our bust of a prospect but not give one of our most successful prospects a chance to see if he can co-exist with our two centerpieces. Prokafor logic.

I'm not sure what your definition of a stretch 4 is. If, by stretch 4, you mean a 4 that can consistently hit an outside jumpshot, i agree that neither noel or okafor are a stretch 4. But I disagree with the conclusion that Noel would be ineffective as a 4 playing next to Embiid.

Clearly, Noel is talented and agile enough to guard 4's. On offense, it's not as if Noel is posting up in the low post with his back to the basket. His offense 90% lobs on pick and rolls, with the occasional jumper and the occasional drive. In other words, unlike with Okafor, he doesn't clog the middle. So, is he a stretch 4? Not in the sense of shooting ability. But in the sense that he is not the opposite of a stretch 4 i.e. a post-up 4 that plays near the basket, then he is a stretch 4.

The issue with a simmons, embiid noel lineup has nothing to do with spacing. Rather, it has to do with the fact you have 2 guys who cannot shoot in the lineup. I think if paired with 3 shooters it can work offensively, and the Defensive potential is just unreal.

I'm not really sure why they haven't tried it do date, especially where Brett Brown has on several occasions expressed his own curiosity regarding the combination. My suspicion is that after they replaced okafor and ilyasova, and then started winning a lot of games in January, they didn't want to mix it up. Now that there may be some movement and embiid has been out anyway and we want to (stealth) tank, it seems like the perfect opportunity to try it. I have said in previous posts that I am definitely open to the realities of having Noel walk if he is offered a max deal. That said, I will be incredibly disappointed if I don't at least have the chance of seeing embiid-Noel together this year before the the sixers even have to make that decision.

[Lovetron Joe]

http://hoopshype.com/2017/02/16/nerlens-noel-is-excited-about-the-sixers-progress-even-amid-trade-rumors-and-center-logjam/

Good article on Noel's change of heart and newfound high spirits.

I enjoyed that.

Thanks!

[Sixerscan]

We should never try biid noel simons. Noel is not 4 and never will be. The only strech 4 i can see is jah.

sixers, it was always sixers

Yeah we should try out all of these ridiculous possibilities with our bust of a prospect but not give one of our most successful prospects a chance to see if he can co-exist with our two centerpieces. Prokafor logic.

I'm not sure what your definition of a stretch 4 is. If, by stretch 4, you mean a 4 that can consistently hit an outside jumpshot, i agree that neither noel or okafor are a stretch 4. But I disagree with the conclusion that Noel would be ineffective as a 4 playing next to Embiid.

Clearly, Noel is talented and agile enough to guard 4's. On offense, it's not as if Noel is posting up in the low post with his back to the basket. His offense 90% lobs on pick and rolls, with the occasional jumper and the occasional drive. In other words, unlike with Okafor, he doesn't clog the middle. So, is he a stretch 4? Not in the sense of shooting ability. But in the sense that he is not the opposite of a stretch 4 i.e. a post-up 4 that plays near the basket, then he is a stretch 4.

The issue with a simmons, embiid noel lineup has nothing to do with spacing. Rather, it has to do with the fact you have 2 guys who cannot shoot in the lineup. I think if paired with 3 shooters it can work offensively, and the Defensive potential is just unreal.

I'm not really sure why they haven't tried it do date, especially where Brett Brown has on several occasions expressed his own curiosity regarding the combination. My suspicion is that after they replaced okafor and ilyasova, and then started winning a lot of games in January, they didn't want to mix it up. Now that there may be some movement and embiid has been out anyway and we want to (stealth) tank, it seems like the perfect opportunity to try it. I have said in previous posts that I am definitely open to the realities of having Noel walk if he is offered a max deal. That said, I will be incredibly disappointed if I don't at least have the chance of seeing embiid-Noel together this year before the the sixers even have to make that decision.

Well remember we've only had like 10 games of Embiid playing/Noel being firmly ahead of Okafor on the depth chart. I think what may have happened is that Brett got excited about how well the team was playing in January and didn't want to mess up the rhythm by injecting them teaming up into the rotation.

I hope we will see them play together soon.

[Arsenal]

There's no reason why Embiid and Noel shouldn't play together for a bit as we close the season. As long as we make sure to have 2-3 shooters around them, it should work out well.

[sixers hoops]

We should never try biid noel simons. Noel is not 4 and never will be. The only strech 4 i can see is jah.

sixers, it was always sixers

Why? Okafor can't even guard 5s? What makes you think he can guard a faster, more athletic big man. Noel would have a better chance at doing that.

Also, we tried Okafor at the 4 for an extended period last year and this year. He's horrible. It was killing Embiid.

[kukenotas]

Yeah we should try out all of these ridiculous possibilities with our bust of a prospect but not give one of our most successful prospects a chance to see if he can co-exist with our two centerpieces. Prokafor logic.

I'm not sure what your definition of a stretch 4 is. If, by stretch 4, you mean a 4 that can consistently hit an outside jumpshot, i agree that neither noel or okafor are a stretch 4. But I disagree with the conclusion that Noel would be ineffective as a 4 playing next to Embiid.

Clearly, Noel is talented and agile enough to guard 4's. On offense, it's not as if Noel is posting up in the low post with his back to the basket. His offense 90% lobs on pick and rolls, with the occasional jumper and the occasional drive. In other words, unlike with Okafor, he doesn't clog the middle. So, is he a stretch 4? Not in the sense of shooting ability. But in the sense that he is not the opposite of a stretch 4 i.e. a post-up 4 that plays near the basket, then he is a stretch 4.

The issue with a simmons, embiid noel lineup has nothing to do with spacing. Rather, it has to do with the fact you have 2 guys who cannot shoot in the lineup. I think if paired with 3 shooters it can work offensively, and the Defensive potential is just unreal.

I'm not really sure why they haven't tried it do date, especially where Brett Brown has on several occasions expressed his own curiosity regarding the combination. My suspicion is that after they replaced okafor and ilyasova, and then started winning a lot of games in January, they didn't want to mix it up. Now that there may be some movement and embiid has been out anyway and we want to (stealth) tank, it seems like the perfect opportunity to try it. I have said in previous posts that I am definitely open to the realities of having Noel walk if he is offered a max deal. That said, I will be incredibly disappointed if I don't at least have the chance of seeing embiid-Noel together this year before the the sixers even have to make that decision.

Well remember we've only had like 10 games of Embiid playing/Noel being firmly ahead of Okafor on the depth chart. I think what may have happened is that Brett got excited about how well the team was playing in January and didn't want to mess up the rhythm by injecting them teaming up into the rotation.

I hope we will see them play together soon.

I aid jah can be strech 4 but not on our team. That spot is taken

sixers, it was always sixers

[kukenotas]

There's no reason why Embiid and Noel shouldn't play together for a bit as we close the season. As long as we make sure to have 2-3 shooters around them, it should work out well.

There is a reason - it doesnt work, period

sixers, it was always sixers