Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho

[Kobblehead]

Nah, those guys are multi time 20+ ppg scorers. Simmons can't even crack 17.

PPG merchants still not learning their lesson after the Tobias Harris trade, sigh.

As opposed to what? Role player merchants that think scrubs that can't score matter?

[stormi]

Nah, those guys are multi time 20+ ppg scorers. Simmons can't even crack 17.

PPG merchants still not learning their lesson after the Tobias Harris trade, sigh.

As opposed to what? Role player merchants that think scrubs that can't score matter?

Yep. Look how unwatchable this team has been in Simmons' absence, even just aesthetically.

Maxey's giving us Ben's 17 regular season points per game, and isn't this Jo's best surrounding cast since Butler left?

And yet we're being run out of the building most nights playing stone age ball without much effort.

Ben Simmons is a super talent that elevates those around him, and was failed by the organization because they couldn't recognize how to maximize his skillset. The winning formula was simply him + Jo + shot creating P&R guard.

RIP Fultz.

[Kobblehead]

Or maybe the team is suffering from the distraction and deadcap that they weren't able to allocate to playable players?

If Ben Simmons had an impact on winning, LSU would have made one of the whopping 64 postseason opportunities that were handed out during his freshman year in college.

[eyeatoma]

PPG merchants still not learning their lesson after the Tobias Harris trade, sigh.

As opposed to what? Role player merchants that think scrubs that can't score matter?

Yep. Look how unwatchable this team has been in Simmons' absence, even just aesthetically.

Maxey's giving us Ben's 17 regular season points per game, and isn't this Jo's best surrounding cast since Butler left?

And yet we're being run out of the building most nights playing stone age ball without much effort.

Ben Simmons is a super talent that elevates those around him, and was failed by the organization because they couldn't recognize how to maximize his skillset. The winning formula was simply him + Jo + shot creating P&R guard.

RIP Fultz.

Might be the case but he also abandoned the organization and never put in the work to sacrifice for the team, which Jo and others did. The friction that he had with Jimmy, led to use losing the best closer we could have gotten. Not necessarily all of Ben's fault, but Ben was uncomfortable with anyone with the ball in his hands. I don't think that would have ever worked. If it couldn't work with Jimmy why do you think it could have worked with Fultz. Jimmy was headstrong, but he deferred to Jo for the first 3 quarters of the game. He was also against the ball being in his hands over Ben's during the playoffs.

Ben Simmons failed himself, in never switching shooting hands, or actually trying to take and make three pointers. It's easy to say, oh look how bad we are. Yes, Ben is an incredible defender, rebounder, and transition beast. But we were capped with the level of player he would ever become on this team. Remove someone like that, and the team will suffer, are you surprised how we're playing?

We have two players eating max capspace and barely anything to show for it. The organization didn't only fail Ben Simmons, they failed Joel Embiid, and the Sixers. Team should have let Tobi walk and gotten rid of Brett if there was an issue with Jimmy. If Ben wasn't happy, we could have traded him at his peak.

[stormi]

Kobble will call KAT, who's won 31 games in 5 total years in the NBA a HOF big, but then backtrack and point to W/L to declare the individual impact of a player.

Decide on one argument to make before you hop on that train

[Kobblehead]

Ben Simmons is a super talent that elevates those around him, and was failed by the organization because they couldn't recognize how to maximize his skillset. The winning formula was simply him + Jo + shot creating P&R guard.

Who does he elevate?

Did Al Horford or Josh Richardson get elevated playing with Simmons or did they have the worst season of their career?

Is Seth Curry better the same or worse this year, playing without a PG?

Ben Simmons is not a force multiplier. That's a myth. He's just a PF that cosplays as a PG that doesn't actually make any of his teammates better with his style of play and actively makes the offense garbage because he can't dribble penetrate when he's on the ball.

Even if we had a scoring G to pair with Embiid, where would Simmons factor into the equation? Standing in the dunker's spot? He can't play on the ball because he can't dribble penetrate or score and he can't play off the ball because he can't shoot.

[stormi]

As opposed to what? Role player merchants that think scrubs that can't score matter?

Yep. Look how unwatchable this team has been in Simmons' absence, even just aesthetically.

Maxey's giving us Ben's 17 regular season points per game, and isn't this Jo's best surrounding cast since Butler left?

And yet we're being run out of the building most nights playing stone age ball without much effort.

Ben Simmons is a super talent that elevates those around him, and was failed by the organization because they couldn't recognize how to maximize his skillset. The winning formula was simply him + Jo + shot creating P&R guard.

RIP Fultz.

Might be the case but he also abandoned the organization and never put in the work to sacrifice for the team, which Jo and others did. The friction that he had with Jimmy, led to use losing the best closer we could have gotten.

Jimmy's addressed this in his own words on a podcast that's available to be watched for free.

Please stop with this hearsay old wives tale argument.

[Kobblehead]

Kobble will call KAT, who's won 31 games in 5 total years in the NBA a HOF big, but then backtrack and point to W/L to declare the individual impact of a player.

Decide on one argument to make before you hop on that train

The basketball hall of fame is about numbers.

Towns is a career 23+ and 11+ guy through his first 7 seasons. That's just a fact that he's a hall of famer, it's not an endorsement.

[stormi]

He's just a PF that cosplays as a PG that doesn't actually make any of his teammates better with his style of play and actively makes the offense garbage because he can't dribble penetrate when he's on the ball.

You've pretty much got it right. This is how the org failed Simmons, and Embiid, and the fans.

He didn't need to be on ball as much as he was. He was in max effectiveness mode alongside Butler and Joel as the Rodman esque slasher / defensive phenom that could boss the game in transition finding open shots with his ability to strangle a defense with his height, athleticism and passing ability.

He's a rare talent that contributed to winning the second he arrived in Philadelphia. Unfortunately he (and Jo) were too good, too fast and won too many games and it altered how the team decided to build around them.

[Kobblehead]

I can confidently assume that Simmons/Klutch mandated that he play PG the moment he was drafted in the league.

I think the organization failed themselves by drafting such an offensively challenged prospect that apparently had no aptitude to improve his game. We should have drafted Jamal Murray or Brandon Ingram.

[stormi]

Kobble will call KAT, who's won 31 games in 5 total years in the NBA a HOF big, but then backtrack and point to W/L to declare the individual impact of a player.

Decide on one argument to make before you hop on that train

The basketball hall of fame is about numbers.

Towns is a career 23+ and 11+ guy through his first 7 seasons. That's just a fact that he's a hall of famer, it's not an endorsement.

Silly because if you wanted to make the HOF argument - which also encompasses career accolades, you'd have to give Ben his plaudits for having 3 all star births, an all nba appearance, 2 all defensive teams and an steal champion trophy on his laundry list in just just four seasons.

Just #facts, not an endorsement..

[Tomjas]

Ben insisting that he plays pg is just another old wives tale

He’s played off the ball with multiple guard every season of his career

[Kobblehead]

So he'll have a couple fluke team accolades as a reward for playing with Embiid on a few 50+ win teams. His numbers won't stand the test of time. He'll be written off as a mere footnote like Josh Smith, Andre Iguodala, and Andrei Kirilenko as unique defenders that ultimately were just role players with no real star talent. There may be three more players in his draft class that pass him in scoring this year (Brown, Brogdon, and Siakam). Simmons is falling fast. He's looking like an awful #1 pick in hindsight.

[Bum Adebayo]

Bum Simmons sucks, he doesn't make anyone better, instead he makes life for other players miserable with his refusal to shoot and attack the rim.
Very impressive talent, nothing else really.

[stormi]

So he'll have a couple fluke team accolades as a reward for playing with Embiid on a few 50+ win teams.

Which loops back to the original point about how this awesome team that carried him to everything he has to his name... doesn't look so awesome in his absence anymore.

Maxey's giving us 17 points a night from his spot on the roster, so why are we getting blown out by Dillon Brooks and Tre Jones and Gabe Vincent with Joel Embiid and Tobias Harris playing nightly?

[Kobblehead]

Just #facts, not an endorsement..

You can't be serious....

Look at the guys who have entered the league right before and then after Simmons.

Giannis Antetokounmpo
Joel Embiid
Nikola Jokic
Zach Lavine
Karl Anthony Towns
Devin Booker
Donovan Mitchell
Jayson Tatum
Luka Doncic
Trae Young
Zion Williamson
Ja Morant
Anthony Edwards
Lamelo Ball
Cole Anthony
Cade Cunningham
Jalen Green

These are the guys that will be in the hall of fame discussion when their career is over. Not Ben Simmons.

Hell, there's an additional 3-4 other players in each of those draft classes (and his own) that are better players than him.

Ben Simmons has ZERO chance at being a hall of famer. Ben Simmons is going to fade into irrelevancy and oblivion by the end of the decade.

[Kobblehead]

doesn't look so awesome in his absence anymore.

Because of the huge distraction. Because of the huge chunk of deadcap that isn't spent on the court.

Also, what was the team's record before Embiid got hurt and the team got smoked with protocols? Weren't they the top offense in basketball and the #1 seed?

[stormi]

Just #facts, not an endorsement..

You can't be serious....

Look at the guys who have entered the league right before and then after Simmons.

Giannis Antetokounmpo
Joel Embiid
Nikola Jokic
Zach Lavine
Karl Anthony Towns
Devin Booker
Donovan Mitchell
Jayson Tatum
Luka Doncic
Trae Young
Zion Williamson
Ja Morant
Anthony Edwards
Lamelo Ball
Cole Anthony
Cade Cunningham
Jalen Green

These are the guys that will be in the hall of fame discussion when their career is over. Not Ben Simmons.

Hell, there's an additional 3-4 other players in each of those draft classes (and his own) that are better players than him.

Ben Simmons has ZERO chance at being a hall of famer. Ben Simmons is going to fade into irrelevancy and oblivion by the end of the decade.

I'm not making that argument.

You said Ben wasn't a talent because he wasn't winning games in college. But you also burst at the seams on this board every time you can mention Karl Towns who averages one win per month for his NBA career.

And then you were like n-no I don't care about wins anymore, I care about raw numbers which Karl is providing, he's a HOF'er.

But Ben could easily get in the same way Grant Hill did, by being a consistently good player for a long time with a lot of all star appearances and a few odd all NBA teams. Not to mention Ben will probably end up on all defense for the better part of the next decade and possibly even add a DPOY.

It's a hard pill to swallow, especially for the fans in this city. I get Ben is a sensitive subject, but we are objectively worse in his absence. This team isn't fun to watch, we aren't competitive anymore, we can't defend or rebound. Shooters aren't getting looks. Ben brought that.

[Kobblehead]

you'd have to give Ben his plaudits for having 3 all star births, an all nba appearance, 2 all defensive teams and an steal champion trophy on his laundry list in just just four seasons.

Pity invites for role players that lack star talent, but rack up team-privileged accolades do exist. Draymond will probably get in. But that's because he was apart of something special and won a handful of championships.

Ben Simmons does not qualify at that degree. He's more in the Al Horford mold (5x allstar appearances), privileged to be on good teams, but ultimately a 14 ppg afterthought for his career.

[stormi]

doesn't look so awesome in his absence anymore.

Because of the huge distraction. Because of the huge chunk of deadcap that isn't spent on the court.

Also, what was the team's record before Embiid got hurt and the team got smoked with protocols? Weren't they the top offense in basketball and the #1 seed?

The deadcap argument only works if you're admitting that there's a Ben Simmons sized hole on this roster that needs to be desperately filled.

You cannot say: Ben Simmons sucks and has sucked, b-but oh wait we're much worse now in his absence and every time that he hasn't played throughout his career - we need a star player in return to fill his lingering void. There's a logical fallacy there.

But yeah, we were tops of the conference the way the Knicks were to start the year. Regression to the mean is hitting hard.

Protocols argument can only go on for so long, we just got smoked by the Grizz without Ja, the Heat without Butler and Bam and then the Nets without Harden. Every team is going through it.

We are who we are unfortunately.