So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors

[Sixerscan]

I guess I’m just confused what people think we are giving up in terms of future moves if we trade, say Maxey and the 2021 first for Lowry? Do you guys really think that’s going to be the centerpiece of like a Beal trade?

Maxey was passed on 20 times in the draft. The Athletic did a list of top 50 prospects on rookie deals and Maxey didn’t even make the honorable mentions. He’s a fine prospect, but he’s not going to move the needle until he makes a *lot* of progress.

The 2021 first would be the 28th pick in the draft if the season ended today. At that range like half the guys don’t make it through their rookie contracts.

They’re not nothing but they’re also not premium assets.

And Lowry is not “over the hill”. He’s still a very good player.

[kriss73]

I'm torn.

On one hand, I'd be curious to see how Lowry could help this team this year....he is a type of player we really never had with Ben and Joel.
On the other hand it doesn't matter how big or not are Maxey,1st 2021 and expirings: they are assets and they are too important for a team over the cap.
Ideally, smart management will suggest to use Maxey and 1st 2021 to transform expiring contracts (D.Green and co.) into an upgrade on DG for the next 2/3 years.

Lowry is an upgrade on DG but he will be FA in 4 months.

I get not to waste such a year by Joel but the world doesn't end this summer and hopefully Ben/Joel/Tobia will all be back oin track in 2021/2022.
And they'll need help yet.

[sixers4real]

I'm torn.

On one hand, I'd be curious to see how Lowry could help this team this year....he is a type of player we really never had with Ben and Joel.
On the other hand it doesn't matter how big or not are Maxey,1st 2021 and expirings: they are assets and they are too important for a team over the cap.
Ideally, smart management will suggest to use Maxey and 1st 2021 to transform expiring contracts (D.Green and co.) into an upgrade on DG for the next 2/3 years.

Lowry is an upgrade on DG but he will be FA in 4 months.

I get not to waste such a year by Joel but the world doesn't end this summer and hopefully Ben/Joel/Tobia will all be back oin track in 2021/2022.
And they'll need help yet.

I agree a lot on what you've said. And I don't think Morey will make that a trade for Lowry. He knows LAL LAC and Nets are still going to be better.

[DCasey91]

This is why I’m high on Oladipo over any other option provided you could get him at the cheapest cost possible.

Keeps all our important assets while realistically going for a chip. Will he alone put us over the top? No certainly not. But the setup/rotation that I’m thinking of certainly puts us right there instead of a flawed construction.

Milton
Oladipo
Harris
Simmons
Embiid

Curry
Scott
Thybulle
Howard

If this was realistically the 9 man rotation this year (even giving away a first) your still left with the star trade package managed leftover in the off-season all the while being able to really go for it this year.

Funnily enough I’m more than comfortable going against anyone in the West over the Bucks/Nets in the East. (Jazz are even more flawed then us not in terms of setup but their philosophy is bogus because it’s highly dependent on role players ala less talented 17-18 Rockets. Lakers nope if we get another piece, Embiid/Ben dominates.
Suns have our number though because of Booker/Paul but probably won’t make it.)

[Murray_17]

If we're not willing to spend on Lowry i don't see why we should do it on Oladipo, tbh

[Stanford]

If we're not willing to spend on Lowry i don't see why we should do it on Oladipo, tbh

"provided you could get him at the cheapest cost possible"

[Murray_17]

"provided you could get him at the cheapest cost possible"

The cheapest way is still Maxey/an asset and two seconds or a first as assumed in the post.

Not to mention that the guy wants a max so he's even a bigger rental than lowry

[Sixerscan]

This is why I’m high on Oladipo over any other option provided you could get him at the cheapest cost possible.

Keeps all our important assets while realistically going for a chip. Will he alone put us over the top? No certainly not. But the setup/rotation that I’m thinking of certainly puts us right there instead of a flawed construction.

Milton
Oladipo
Harris
Simmons
Embiid

Curry
Scott
Thybulle
Howard

If this was realistically the 9 man rotation this year (even giving away a first) your still left with the star trade package managed leftover in the off-season all the while being able to really go for it this year.

Funnily enough I’m more than comfortable going against anyone in the West over the Bucks/Nets in the East. (Jazz are even more flawed then us not in terms of setup but their philosophy is bogus because it’s highly dependent on role players ala less talented 17-18 Rockets. Lakers nope if we get another piece, Embiid/Ben dominates.
Suns have our number though because of Booker/Paul but probably won’t make it.)

I mean sure if the Rockets give us Oladipo for Green and more or less the same thing we traded for Burks and GR3 last year you do that, but that just seems completely unrealistic. They just basically swapped him for Lavert like a month ago.

But assuming you mean actually trade a realistic package for him I’m not sure how this sets us up that better for a “star” package. If Oladipo plays well I assume he’s going to get a near max contract like Tobias got and probably won’t be tradeable for a few years.

[LloydFree]

This is why I’m high on Oladipo over any other option provided you could get him at the cheapest cost possible.

Keeps all our important assets while realistically going for a chip. Will he alone put us over the top? No certainly not. But the setup/rotation that I’m thinking of certainly puts us right there instead of a flawed construction.

Milton
Oladipo
Harris
Simmons
Embiid

Curry
Scott
Thybulle
Howard

If this was realistically the 9 man rotation this year (even giving away a first) your still left with the star trade package managed leftover in the off-season all the while being able to really go for it this year.

Funnily enough I’m more than comfortable going against anyone in the West over the Bucks/Nets in the East. (Jazz are even more flawed then us not in terms of setup but their philosophy is bogus because it’s highly dependent on role players ala less talented 17-18 Rockets. Lakers nope if we get another piece, Embiid/Ben dominates.
Suns have our number though because of Booker/Paul but probably won’t make it.)

I mean sure if the Rockets give us Oladipo for Green and more or less the same thing we traded for Burks and GR3 last year you do that, but that just seems completely unrealistic. They just basically swapped him for Lavert like a month ago.

But assuming you mean actually trade a realistic package for him I’m not sure how this sets us up that better for a “star” package. If Oladipo plays well he’s going to get a contract like Tobias got and probably won’t be tradeable for a few years.

Maxey, the '21 1st and Expirings, is the minimum Houston should take for Oladipo

[SparksFly87]

We need a olidipo, Lavine or Westbrook type athletic creator to reach the next level. A guy that can athletically finish at the rim off the dribble and can us his pull up at will.

[the_process]

I guess I’m just confused what people think we are giving up in terms of future moves if we trade, say Maxey and the 2021 first for Lowry? Do you guys really think that’s going to be the centerpiece of like a Beal trade?

Maxey was passed on 20 times in the draft. The Athletic did a list of top 50 prospects on rookie deals and Maxey didn’t even make the honorable mentions. He’s a fine prospect, but he’s not going to move the needle until he makes a *lot* of progress.

The 2021 first would be the 28th pick in the draft if the season ended today. At that range like half the guys don’t make it through their rookie contracts.

They’re not nothing but they’re also not premium assets.

And Lowry is not “over the hill”. He’s still a very good player.

3 crappy BKN picks and Caris “always injured” Levert just got James Harden; so yeah, Maxey and 3 1sts starts the conversation for Beal or LaVine IMO.

Also I don’t see Lowry utlimately moving the needle much even if he admittedly does help.

[HotelVitale]

This is why I’m high on Oladipo over any other option provided you could get him at the cheapest cost possible.

Keeps all our important assets while realistically going for a chip. Will he alone put us over the top? No certainly not. But the setup/rotation that I’m thinking of certainly puts us right there instead of a flawed construction.

Funnily enough I’m more than comfortable going against anyone in the West over the Bucks/Nets in the East. (Jazz are even more flawed then us not in terms of setup but their philosophy is bogus because it’s highly dependent on role players ala less talented 17-18 Rockets. Lakers nope if we get another piece, Embiid/Ben dominates.
Suns have our number though because of Booker/Paul but probably won’t make it.)

I mean sure if the Rockets give us Oladipo for Green and more or less the same thing we traded for Burks and GR3 last year you do that, but that just seems completely unrealistic. They just basically swapped him for Lavert like a month ago. But assuming you mean actually trade a realistic package for him I’m not sure how this sets us up that better for a “star” package. If Oladipo plays well he’s going to get a contract like Tobias got and probably won’t be tradeable for a few years.

Maxey, the '21 1st and Expirings, is the minimum Houston should take for Oladipo

Oladipo's a really interesting/strange case, really hard to gauge his value and HOU's motivation to move him. I think a lot of people expected him to return to the levels of his breakout year, and he hasn't come anywhere close in 3 seasons now; he's sucked in HOU too so they're likely already regretting that Levert move--they were gambling on him being old Oladipo and he went the wrong way. Overall, on one hand they might be wanting to move him since they really really need to tank (top-4 protected pick that goes to OKC otherwise) and might let him walk in FA anyway, on the other hand they need some upside and talent and it might be hard to make a move for some middling assets.

[Negrodamus]

I guess I’m just confused what people think we are giving up in terms of future moves if we trade, say Maxey and the 2021 first for Lowry? Do you guys really think that’s going to be the centerpiece of like a Beal trade?

Maxey was passed on 20 times in the draft. The Athletic did a list of top 50 prospects on rookie deals and Maxey didn’t even make the honorable mentions. He’s a fine prospect, but he’s not going to move the needle until he makes a *lot* of progress.

The 2021 first would be the 28th pick in the draft if the season ended today. At that range like half the guys don’t make it through their rookie contracts.

They’re not nothing but they’re also not premium assets.

And Lowry is not “over the hill”. He’s still a very good player.

3 crappy BKN picks and Caris “always injured” Levert just got James Harden; so yeah, Maxey and 3 1sts starts the conversation for Beal or LaVine IMO.

That's because the Rockets are run by incompetent people. Just because one team has poor valuation doesn't mean that every team will.

Not to mention, aren't the Bulls in playoff contention? Wizards aren't even out of it.

[the_process]

I guess I’m just confused what people think we are giving up in terms of future moves if we trade, say Maxey and the 2021 first for Lowry? Do you guys really think that’s going to be the centerpiece of like a Beal trade?

Maxey was passed on 20 times in the draft. The Athletic did a list of top 50 prospects on rookie deals and Maxey didn’t even make the honorable mentions. He’s a fine prospect, but he’s not going to move the needle until he makes a *lot* of progress.

The 2021 first would be the 28th pick in the draft if the season ended today. At that range like half the guys don’t make it through their rookie contracts.

They’re not nothing but they’re also not premium assets.

And Lowry is not “over the hill”. He’s still a very good player.

3 crappy BKN picks and Caris “always injured” Levert just got James Harden; so yeah, Maxey and 3 1sts starts the conversation for Beal or LaVine IMO.

That's because the Rockets are run by incompetent people. Just because one team has poor valuation doesn't mean that every team will.

Not to mention, aren't the Bulls in playoff contention? Wizards aren't even out of it.

I imagine any real trades the Sixers make will be in the summer. So if they use assets for a marginal upgrade now, there’s less to use later when it really counts. I would just stand pat at this point except if it’s the expiring trash pile (Scott, Poirier, Ferguson, Bradley) and 2nds.

Really don’t understand how they couldn’t/didn’t sign Ilyasova.

[Sixersftw]

This is why I’m high on Oladipo over any other option provided you could get him at the cheapest cost possible.

Keeps all our important assets while realistically going for a chip. Will he alone put us over the top? No certainly not. But the setup/rotation that I’m thinking of certainly puts us right there instead of a flawed construction.

Milton
Oladipo
Harris
Simmons
Embiid

Curry
Scott
Thybulle
Howard

If this was realistically the 9 man rotation this year (even giving away a first) your still left with the star trade package managed leftover in the off-season all the while being able to really go for it this year.

Funnily enough I’m more than comfortable going against anyone in the West over the Bucks/Nets in the East. (Jazz are even more flawed then us not in terms of setup but their philosophy is bogus because it’s highly dependent on role players ala less talented 17-18 Rockets. Lakers nope if we get another piece, Embiid/Ben dominates.
Suns have our number though because of Booker/Paul but probably won’t make it.)

I mean sure if the Rockets give us Oladipo for Green and more or less the same thing we traded for Burks and GR3 last year you do that, but that just seems completely unrealistic. They just basically swapped him for Lavert like a month ago.

But assuming you mean actually trade a realistic package for him I’m not sure how this sets us up that better for a “star” package. If Oladipo plays well he’s going to get a contract like Tobias got and probably won’t be tradeable for a few years.

Maxey, the '21 1st and Expirings, is the minimum Houston should take for Oladipo

I'm not sure I agree with that valuation in a vacuum but, moving past that, Houston is certainly going to hit us with a Morey tax on top of that. I would consider all trades with Houston unrealistic at this point.

[Sixerscan]

I guess I’m just confused what people think we are giving up in terms of future moves if we trade, say Maxey and the 2021 first for Lowry? Do you guys really think that’s going to be the centerpiece of like a Beal trade?

Maxey was passed on 20 times in the draft. The Athletic did a list of top 50 prospects on rookie deals and Maxey didn’t even make the honorable mentions. He’s a fine prospect, but he’s not going to move the needle until he makes a *lot* of progress.

The 2021 first would be the 28th pick in the draft if the season ended today. At that range like half the guys don’t make it through their rookie contracts.

They’re not nothing but they’re also not premium assets.

And Lowry is not “over the hill”. He’s still a very good player.

3 crappy BKN picks and Caris “always injured” Levert just got James Harden; so yeah, Maxey and 3 1sts starts the conversation for Beal or LaVine IMO.

Also I don’t see Lowry utlimately moving the needle much even if he admittedly does help.

It was 3 picks and 4 swaps plus Allen who became another pick plus Lavert who became Oladipo.

The picks aren’t all equal. The valuable picks and swaps in that trade are the ones 5-7 years from now when Durant and harden are retired. This off-season no one is going to value like the 28h pick in the 2021 draft very much. Probably the reason you forgot about the pick they got for Allen is because it’s just the Bucks 2021 which is similarly a low value.

Anytime anyone talks about Maxey and the 2021 first they try to roll it into a much bigger package. That’s because those assets by themselves aren’t very valuable.

[LloydFree]

I mean sure if the Rockets give us Oladipo for Green and more or less the same thing we traded for Burks and GR3 last year you do that, but that just seems completely unrealistic. They just basically swapped him for Lavert like a month ago.

But assuming you mean actually trade a realistic package for him I’m not sure how this sets us up that better for a “star” package. If Oladipo plays well he’s going to get a contract like Tobias got and probably won’t be tradeable for a few years.

Maxey, the '21 1st and Expirings, is the minimum Houston should take for Oladipo

I'm not sure I agree with that valuation in a vacuum but, moving past that, Houston is certainly going to hit us with a Morey tax on top of that. I would consider all trades with Houston unrealistic at this point.

I don't think Maxey and the #28 pick in a draft is that much, honestly.

[HotelVitale]

I guess I’m just confused what people think we are giving up in terms of future moves if we trade, say Maxey and the 2021 first for Lowry? Do you guys really think that’s going to be the centerpiece of like a Beal trade?
Maxey was passed on 20 times in the draft. The Athletic did a list of top 50 prospects on rookie deals and Maxey didn’t even make the honorable mentions. He’s a fine prospect, but he’s not going to move the needle until he makes a *lot* of progress. The 2021 first would be the 28th pick in the draft if the season ended today. At that range like half the guys don’t make it through their rookie contracts. They’re not nothing but they’re also not premium assets. And Lowry is not “over the hill”. He’s still a very good player.

3 crappy BKN picks and Caris “always injured” Levert just got James Harden; so yeah, Maxey and 3 1sts starts the conversation for Beal or LaVine IMO..

Nah, not at all. Just because one team took a weak offer doesn't mean others will. Also the full offer was Levert, Jarrett Allen, couple other scraps, 4 pick swaps (though the first 2 of them aint happening), and 4 1sts. And Harden 31+ years old at the time, so there's 5-7 years less of his prime than with Beal or Lavine.

[the_process]

I guess I’m just confused what people think we are giving up in terms of future moves if we trade, say Maxey and the 2021 first for Lowry? Do you guys really think that’s going to be the centerpiece of like a Beal trade?

Maxey was passed on 20 times in the draft. The Athletic did a list of top 50 prospects on rookie deals and Maxey didn’t even make the honorable mentions. He’s a fine prospect, but he’s not going to move the needle until he makes a *lot* of progress.

The 2021 first would be the 28th pick in the draft if the season ended today. At that range like half the guys don’t make it through their rookie contracts.

They’re not nothing but they’re also not premium assets.

And Lowry is not “over the hill”. He’s still a very good player.

3 crappy BKN picks and Caris “always injured” Levert just got James Harden; so yeah, Maxey and 3 1sts starts the conversation for Beal or LaVine IMO.

Also I don’t see Lowry utlimately moving the needle much even if he admittedly does help.

It was 3 picks and 4 swaps plus Allen who became another pick plus Lavert who became Oladipo.

The picks aren’t all equal. The valuable picks and swaps in that trade are the ones 5-7 years from now when Durant and harden are retired. This off-season no one is going to value like the 28h pick in the 2021 draft very much. Probably the reason you forgot about the pick they got for Allen is because it’s just the Bucks 2021 which is similarly a low value.

Anytime anyone talks about Maxey and the 2021 first they try to roll it into a much bigger package. That’s because those assets by themselves aren’t very valuable.

Yes I did forget Jarrett Allen. I didn’t forget the swaps, those are unlikely to convey and are basically irrelevant.

[Sixerscan]

3 crappy BKN picks and Caris “always injured” Levert just got James Harden; so yeah, Maxey and 3 1sts starts the conversation for Beal or LaVine IMO.

Also I don’t see Lowry utlimately moving the needle much even if he admittedly does help.

It was 3 picks and 4 swaps plus Allen who became another pick plus Lavert who became Oladipo.

The picks aren’t all equal. The valuable picks and swaps in that trade are the ones 5-7 years from now when Durant and harden are retired. This off-season no one is going to value like the 28h pick in the 2021 draft very much. Probably the reason you forgot about the pick they got for Allen is because it’s just the Bucks 2021 which is similarly a low value.

Anytime anyone talks about Maxey and the 2021 first they try to roll it into a much bigger package. That’s because those assets by themselves aren’t very valuable.

Yes I did forget Jarrett Allen. I didn’t forget the swaps, but those are unlikely to convey and are basically irrelevant.

You’re telling me you can reliably predict that Harden and Durant are going to be completely healthy each of those 4 years including 6 years from now? If we trade a swap for 2022 wouldn’t you be sweating Simmons or Embiid getting hurt? There’s some upside there.