Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?)

[Iverson Armband]

Ditching Harden is addition by subtraction. Your 1st and 2nd best players need to be reliable if you’re going to win a championship. Our best player is iffy at best, you can’t pair him with a career choker and expect to win anything.

[youngcrev]

Ditching Harden is addition by subtraction. Your 1st and 2nd best players need to be reliable if you’re going to win a championship. Our best player is iffy at best, you can’t pair him with a career choker and expect to win anything.

Following this line of thinking, what if he was your 3rd best player?

There seems to be this belief in Tyrese making a leap next year if he were to go, but what if he is able to make that leap regardless? His relationship with Harden has seemed to have a positive impact up until this point, after all.

Or what if you acquired a guy that would make James the third best player?

[spikeslovechild]

How on earth is it addition by subtraction? Do we have someone waiting in the wings who will run the offense better? Is he taking away scoring opportunities from other players who would otherwise be more efficient?

I have always hated that phrase because the people who use it never explain why. It's like they think if they'll repeat it enough people will blindly believe it without ever getting to the why. He is some truth talk losing Harden would just be a subtraction. We are already over the cap so our only option would be to give up assets for his replacement. Losing Harden means we lose a 20 PPG scorer, our floor general, while having no plausible means of replacing him.

Embiid and Harden may never win a championship that is true. Winning championships is hard. It's even harder when your best players choke in key moments but that doesn't mean losing Harden makes the team better that is just asinine.

[ProcessDoctor]

I feel like the next "Andrew Wiggins" or "Aaron Gordon" is De'Andre Hunter. A top-5 pick forward that has been just okay and seemingly overpaid, but might flourish on a contending team in the right role.


ATL out: Collins, Hunter
ATL in: Harris, Gay

PHI out: Harris
PHI in: Hunter, Olynyk

UTAH out: Olynyk, Gay
UTAH in: Collins


Harden/Melton/McClung
Maxey/Springer/Korkmaz
Hunter/Tucker/House
Reed/McDaniels/Niang
Embiid/Olynyk/Harrell

[Mik317]

Losing Harden will make the team worse. Only real creator on the team. Our second best is our center. He also made life for said center a lot easier. Harden is a good player

But I don't care lol.

Can't deal with another season of slowly dribbling up the floor, dribbling in place, going for a slow PNR that ends in a stepback or Biid fadeaway lol. Ideally Nurse has ideas to speed things up and such but I don't think Harden wants to play any other way....

also I do want to see what the pivot Morey talked about is....even if I expect to be something dumb lol.

Just a way more interesting season next year if Harden walks. He comes back and we will spend the whole season just waiting for the playoffs.

Its not logical but it is how I feel about it lol

[Iverson Armband]

Ditching Harden is addition by subtraction. Your 1st and 2nd best players need to be reliable if you’re going to win a championship. Our best player is iffy at best, you can’t pair him with a career choker and expect to win anything.

Following this line of thinking, what if he was your 3rd best player?

There seems to be this belief in Tyrese making a leap next year if he were to go, but what if he is able to make that leap regardless? His relationship with Harden has seemed to have a positive impact up until this point, after all.

Or what if you acquired a guy that would make James the third best player?

If we could acquire a guy that would make James third in the pecking order, that would be fantastic if he was amenable to it. Don’t think that’s possible with the assets the team currently holds though. Also don’t think Harden would accept a role as such. That would require him having to catch and shoot, move without the ball and generally not be lazy which he’s certainly not accustomed to.

I don’t see Maxey realizing his full potential as long as Harden is on the team. Just my opinion.

[Iverson Armband]

How on earth is it addition by subtraction? Do we have someone waiting in the wings who will run the offense better? Is he taking away scoring opportunities from other players who would otherwise be more efficient?

I have always hated that phrase because the people who use it never explain why. It's like they think if they'll repeat it enough people will blindly believe it without ever getting to the why. He is some truth talk losing Harden would just be a subtraction. We are already over the cap so our only option would be to give up assets for his replacement. Losing Harden means we lose a 20 PPG scorer, our floor general, while having no plausible means of replacing him.

Embiid and Harden may never win a championship that is true. Winning championships is hard. It's even harder when your best players choke in key moments but that doesn't mean losing Harden makes the team better that is just asinine.

Harden is a loser, that is why. Not too difficult to understand. Don’t know how many times you need to see him come up small when he’s needed the most for it to finally click in your brain. You’re looking at it from a purely remedial standpoint, blinded by Harden’s (diminishing) talent and forgetting it’s more than that. “Floor general”, huh? So good a floor general that he forgot to get our best player any touches at the end of Game 6? So good a floor general he had 5TOs in both Game 6 and 7? Give me a break… I’m sure you’ll point to his regular season assist numbers, I do not give two Fs about what he does in the regular season against bum teams with no pressure.

A guy who has the ball in his hands that much cannot be that unreliable in the playoffs and his brand of basketball has been proven time and time again to not produce playoff success. He’s also lazy as hell on defense and at this point in his career, not good enough on offense to get away with it. That has an affect on the team. So like I said, addition by subtraction.

I’m also of the mind that he “blocks” Maxey. I don’t think Maxey can ever reach his full potential with Harden here playing how he likes to play. Do I know that for a fact? Of course not. But I do have years worth of data telling me Harden definitely ain’t getting it done. Why not try something different?

[76ciology]

I don’t see Maxey realizing his full potential as long as Harden is on the team. Just my opinion.

You need players to sacrifice for the team if you want to win the championship.

Part of this is Maxey being the third option, which is a big edge for us. Just as MPJ is for the Nuggets.

[76ciology]

Some more thoughts on that Doc interview with Simmons, that I’ve enjoyed.

I like this quote by Doc on Jokic.

“ He always passes when the pass should be made. Not just passing because you are trying to score and then passes.

..guys dont run and cut if they think they’re not going to get the ball”

Think about it from our players’ perspective. Once they dump Biid the ball, their eyes is on Biid and how the defense reacts to him. They all wondering “Will they send a double?”

They also can’t make a lot of movements once Biid has surveyed the court before making the move, biid does not have the IQ and passing ability to get them the ball when there’s chaos from the defense and a lot of movements from our guys.

When guys are touching the ball, like in the Nets series or G5 Celts. I think we’re harder to beat. Less predictable and more movement.

But I think there should be balance that in crunch time, I’d still prefer our way of Biid iso ball for I find the “read and react” style is too chaotic and thats also one of the reason why the Celts is bad in crunch time.

I also think for the team to win, our guys should be “over themselves”. They should be willing to sacrifice for the team. WE NOT ME.

Lastly, I also think the guy who should play with Biid and Maxey should be a really good playmaker who can get the guys the ball. Not just get the ball to embiid but to the rest of the team. And also be able to score (be an alpha) when Biid isn’t spiritually present.

Overall, it really sounds like we need to play sort of the Spurs system. With Duncan taking a step back and letting more ball movement that can make everyone great. But Duncan would step in during crucial or pivotal moments. A playmaker like Manu (Harden?) also allows Duncan and Parker to get easy baskets.

I think Doc has to go. Because thats just the nature of the business.. he has to leave if we need to get Harden back. I also think Nurse is the type of coach who is creative enough that can find ways to give Harden and Embiid get what they both want.

I expect Harden and Biid to be back next season. Nurse will implement more passing and movement from this team on offense. I just dont know how it will look like for Harden, i cant envision him running around that much.

[rocketsfan100]

Bill Simmons : harden and nurse had a good meeting and harden is inclined to comeback now to Philadelphia..I think harden will stay in Philadelphia..

Not sure how reliable is but that’s what he says

[SixthStreet]

Personally I feel we were pretty damn close to winning it this year. I'm pretty much okay with running it back and wouldn't consider that a bad offseason. The Bucks are I think done being the East heavyweight and the Cavs are ascending but not really a problem. The Celtics coaching is a big question as is their culture. Next year is a down year for the other contenders in the conference except the Cavs and they have matchup problems against us. The Heat are a strange team liable to win a strange series against us but I'd say that no matter how we reshuffle the roster.

I easily can see a squad running it back or just splitting Tobias into one rotation wing and another rotation player being the 1 seed in the conference. From there I'd take my chances.

[spikeslovechild]

How on earth is it addition by subtraction? Do we have someone waiting in the wings who will run the offense better? Is he taking away scoring opportunities from other players who would otherwise be more efficient?

I have always hated that phrase because the people who use it never explain why. It's like they think if they'll repeat it enough people will blindly believe it without ever getting to the why. He is some truth talk losing Harden would just be a subtraction. We are already over the cap so our only option would be to give up assets for his replacement. Losing Harden means we lose a 20 PPG scorer, our floor general, while having no plausible means of replacing him.

Embiid and Harden may never win a championship that is true. Winning championships is hard. It's even harder when your best players choke in key moments but that doesn't mean losing Harden makes the team better that is just asinine.

Harden is a loser, that is why. Not too difficult to understand. Don’t know how many times you need to see him come up small when he’s needed the most for it to finally click in your brain. You’re looking at it from a purely remedial standpoint, blinded by Harden’s (diminishing) talent and forgetting it’s more than that. “Floor general”, huh? So good a floor general that he forgot to get our best player any touches at the end of Game 6? So good a floor general he had 5TOs in both Game 6 and 7? Give me a break… I’m sure you’ll point to his regular season assist numbers, I do not give two Fs about what he does in the regular season against bum teams with no pressure.

A guy who has the ball in his hands that much cannot be that unreliable in the playoffs and his brand of basketball has been proven time and time again to not produce playoff success. He’s also lazy as hell on defense and at this point in his career, not good enough on offense to get away with it. That has an affect on the team. So like I said, addition by subtraction.

I’m also of the mind that he “blocks” Maxey. I don’t think Maxey can ever reach his full potential with Harden here playing how he likes to play. Do I know that for a fact? Of course not. But I do have years worth of data telling me Harden definitely ain’t getting it done. Why not try something different?

So you think Maxey is being blocked by Harden. Ok. I don't believe that at all. They actually complement each other extremely well. Maxey pushes the ball up court for fast break opportunities and once the defense becomes set Harden the ball in his hands and creates gravity to get Maxey open looks particularly 3P off the ball. I've seen nothing to suggest Maxey is capable of running an offense and breaking down defenses every time we've tried to do so and doc has especially when Harden needs rest it's failed spectacularly whether that has been with the starters or bench.

Which is fine with me. If Maxey never develops into that guy he still has tremendous value due to his ability to score efficiently by using his speed on the fast break to get to the rim and knockdown threes. For me to show how much we are NOT on the same page I've been pushing all offseason and during the season for us to get more of a traditional PG for the bench so we can get Harden rest without the offense falling apart.

I honestly think that is a big problem of why this team always fails in big moments is we cannot rest our best guys so at the end of games when Harden and Embiid come in they are facing guys who are fresh they are completely out of gas.

[NYSixersFan]

I'm surprised some people want Harden back even on a short term deal. As long as he's playing big minutes and dominating the ball, we're screwed.

[Jailblazers7]

The case for addition by subtraction lies in the playoffs imo. Losing Harden makes us a less talented team but also adds a lot more schematic freedom given his unwillingness to play a different style. He seems to be stuck in his ways which puts a ceiling on this team on the playoffs.

I just don’t have faith that he will make the adjustments necessary to get this team to a title. All of the adjustments require effort like off-ball movement, defensive consistency, and increased pace. Harden is a supreme talent but he’s a lazy player with terrible habits who doesn’t want to change. That’s not a recipe for a title.

[seventy6ers]

I have no problem with Harden coming back as long it isn't a long term deal. The sixers were a really good team and had a great chance to go to the Eastern Conference finals. The problem is relying on Embiid too much. That flopping on the ground looking for a foul crap needs to go. The best thing to do is trade Tobias for an upgrade. That sounds easy but the numbers have to work. Would love Collins, Wiggins, or someone like that.

[Stanford]

I'm surprised some people want Harden back even on a short term deal. As long as he's playing big minutes and dominating the ball, we're screwed.

Yep. I think we're toast next year either way, but Harden coming back puts huge pressure on Nurse and Embiid because he's not the answer.

[Arsenal]

I'm surprised some people want Harden back even on a short term deal. As long as he's playing big minutes and dominating the ball, we're screwed.

I have the same concerns about Harden as most, but it's about preserving asset value as we have no good way to replace him if he walks. If he signs a 2-year deal, we can make another run next season with a better coach, and can still trade him next summer if it doesn't work, as he'll still have trade value. And we can stay "over the cap" instead of dipping under and having to deal with all that entails.

An asset-poor team like us can't afford to let assets walk out the door.

[youngcrev]

I'm surprised some people want Harden back even on a short term deal. As long as he's playing big minutes and dominating the ball, we're screwed.

I feel like when he's playing really bad he gets allergic to ball rather than dominating it. You get turn the ball over, hands in the air, staring at the ref, not getting back on defense Harden a couple times, and then he just ghosts you.

Nurse seems like the type to yank when he starts seeing that. Just need a good plan B for those games.

[FireMorey]

The problem isn't Harden per se. The problem is because of the weaknesses of the roster they need him to carry a significant share of the scoring load. If the Sixers had a legit wing star and Harden could just play upgraded version of Chris Paul--a declining veteran PG who still has the ability to drop 20+ in playoff games, but they're best used distributing and hitting open shots--the Sixers would be fine.

But I don't think you can argue they'd be better without him, unless they replace him with someone better, which right now doesn't seem to be realistic.

[mjkvol]

How on earth is it addition by subtraction? Do we have someone waiting in the wings who will run the offense better? Is he taking away scoring opportunities from other players who would otherwise be more efficient?

I have always hated that phrase because the people who use it never explain why. It's like they think if they'll repeat it enough people will blindly believe it without ever getting to the why. He is some truth talk losing Harden would just be a subtraction. We are already over the cap so our only option would be to give up assets for his replacement. Losing Harden means we lose a 20 PPG scorer, our floor general, while having no plausible means of replacing him.

Embiid and Harden may never win a championship that is true. Winning championships is hard. It's even harder when your best players choke in key moments but that doesn't mean losing Harden makes the team better that is just asinine.

Harden is a loser, that is why. Not too difficult to understand. Don’t know how many times you need to see him come up small when he’s needed the most for it to finally click in your brain. You’re looking at it from a purely remedial standpoint, blinded by Harden’s (diminishing) talent and forgetting it’s more than that. “Floor general”, huh? So good a floor general that he forgot to get our best player any touches at the end of Game 6? So good a floor general he had 5TOs in both Game 6 and 7? Give me a break… I’m sure you’ll point to his regular season assist numbers, I do not give two Fs about what he does in the regular season against bum teams with no pressure.

A guy who has the ball in his hands that much cannot be that unreliable in the playoffs and his brand of basketball has been proven time and time again to not produce playoff success. He’s also lazy as hell on defense and at this point in his career, not good enough on offense to get away with it. That has an affect on the team. So like I said, addition by subtraction.

I’m also of the mind that he “blocks” Maxey. I don’t think Maxey can ever reach his full potential with Harden here playing how he likes to play. Do I know that for a fact? Of course not. But I do have years worth of data telling me Harden definitely ain’t getting it done. Why not try something different?

So you think Maxey is being blocked by Harden. Ok. I don't believe that at all. They actually complement each other extremely well. Maxey pushes the ball up court for fast break opportunities and once the defense becomes set Harden the ball in his hands and creates gravity to get Maxey open looks particularly 3P off the ball. I've seen nothing to suggest Maxey is capable of running an offense and breaking down defenses every time we've tried to do so and doc has especially when Harden needs rest it's failed spectacularly whether that has been with the starters or bench.

Which is fine with me. If Maxey never develops into that guy he still has tremendous value due to his ability to score efficiently by using his speed on the fast break to get to the rim and knockdown threes. For me to show how much we are NOT on the same page I've been pushing all offseason and during the season for us to get more of a traditional PG for the bench so we can get Harden rest without the offense falling apart.

I honestly think that is a big problem of why this team always fails in big moments is we cannot rest our best guys so at the end of games when Harden and Embiid come in they are facing guys who are fresh they are completely out of gas.

I've been hammering away for a legit backup PG since last off season, as it was to me the most glaring hole on the roster going into last season.

The argument can be made that the lack of that player was a big a factor as any for our playoff failure. The non-Harden minutes were a complete disaster all season.