Around the League - 2019-2020

[76ciology]

Spoiler:

And it doesn't even have to be a hall of fame scorer to pair them with. Just a Kevin Johnson / Tim Hardaway type would have sufficed for Malone.

Hell, Duncan was winning titles with mere Parker/Ginoboli types.

Well Kevin Johnson was on a team with a hall of famer power forward that played the Bulls in the finals, didn't work out for them.

I know you have your central unifying theory of what wins in the playoffs, but I really don't think a guard isolating on MJ, or Pippen, or Harper would have really been a very effective strategy. I think one of those Hakeem teams would have had the best shot (I guess Drexler kind of fits your theory, though he wasn't at his best anymore), never synced up unfortunately.

Duncan wasn't winning those titles against MJ and Pippen. A lot of guys in the 90s might have rings if they played 10 years later.

I think that the Pip-MJ menace is similar to the Bron-Wade duo that it was impossible to construct a roster to counter it at that point because Pip-MJ had freakish combination of length and athleticism in those days.

But if it’s just me, I’d play more Anderson and Morris over Hornacek. Live with the results I’ll get with MJ but atleast cover that hole on defense against Pippen. Or just trade Hornacek for a 3&D guy that would better equip me in the finals.

[76ciology]

Regarding Fultz and Sixers not doing their homework.

I dont think Celts knew about this either and I believe most NBA players’ parents are annoying and nosy about their son’s career. I mean.. even Justin Bieber or Macaulay Culkins have similar experiences.

Fultz had a lot of stress with what he went through. He also isn’t mentally tough. But personally, I don’t think its the reason why he had the yips or some shoulder injury. Its not related.

P.S. on a related note, I believe DRose’s struggles were not because of him trying to recover from his ACL but more of his rape case. Once it cleared up, his game just went back to normal.

[Kobblehead]

I think that the Pip-MJ menace is similar to the Bron-Wade duo that it was impossible to construct a roster to counter it at that point because Pip-MJ had freakish combination of length and athleticism in those days.

Yup. And the current approximation of that is obviously Kawhi Leonard and Paul George.

[Kobblehead]

But if it’s just me, I’d play more Anderson and Morris over Hornacek. Live with the results I’ll get with MJ but atleast cover that hole on defense against Pippen. Or just trade Hornacek for a 3&D guy that would better equip me in the finals.

I think Hornacek basically was a 3&D guy. Both he and Stockton were strong defenders. They were just too tiny to deal with the Bulls. They could handle almost any backcourt PG/SG combo. They just were too tiny to deal with the SG/SF combo that the Bulls presented.

If you apply a modern approach to the matchup, you would just put Malone in at C so you can get Shandon Anderson in the starting lineup so you have Jordan/Pippen coverage from the opening tip.

[Sixerscan]

Spoiler:

And it doesn't even have to be a hall of fame scorer to pair them with. Just a Kevin Johnson / Tim Hardaway type would have sufficed for Malone.

Hell, Duncan was winning titles with mere Parker/Ginoboli types.

Well Kevin Johnson was on a team with a hall of famer power forward that played the Bulls in the finals, didn't work out for them.

I know you have your central unifying theory of what wins in the playoffs, but I really don't think a guard isolating on MJ, or Pippen, or Harper would have really been a very effective strategy. I think one of those Hakeem teams would have had the best shot (I guess Drexler kind of fits your theory, though he wasn't at his best anymore), never synced up unfortunately.

Duncan wasn't winning those titles against MJ and Pippen. A lot of guys in the 90s might have rings if they played 10 years later.

I think that the Pip-MJ menace is similar to the Bron-Wade duo that it was impossible to construct a roster to counter it at that point because Pip-MJ had freakish combination of length and athleticism in those days.

But if it’s just me, I’d play more Anderson and Morris over Hornacek. Live with the results I’ll get with MJ but atleast cover that hole on defense against Pippen. Or just trade Hornacek for a 3&D guy that would better equip me in the finals.

IDK how much trade value Hornacek had, he was 34. He was more valuable to the Jazz because of the chemistry he had with Stockton and Malone. That's how those guys finally broke through to the finals despite all being past their primes, they just had a level of execution that none of the other more talented Western Conference teams had.

Really think it came down to how close they came in '97 and the Bulls not looking anywhere nearly as invincible as they had in 96 or 97. Like you guys are talking about Pippen being a matchup problem, maybe he would have been earlier in his career, he could barely play in that finals because of his back and wasn't anywhere near his peak effectiveness.

[Eyeamok]

Watching the Last Dance yesterday with Pippens gripe. Can and do NBA contracts get renegotiated ?

[Sixerscan]

Watching the Last Dance yesterday with Pippens gripe. Can and do NBA contracts get renegotiated ?

Depends on the contract and if the team has cap space. If you remember, Covington's contract got renegotiated. Pippen's contract could have gotten renegotiated in 1995 (which of course would have cut into the space they used to build out the 72-10 team), but not in 1997 when the doc was going on. Here's an article on it: https://earlybirdrights.com/2020/04/20/the-last-dance-scottie-pippen-salary-michael-jordan-chicago-bulls-jerry-krause/

[76ciology]

Can anyone recall why the Jazz didn’t make roster adjustments after they were beaten by the Bulls when they first met?

Jazz’s best defender against MJ is Byron. They could have look for better 3&D wings. Then if Byron is on MJ, who will defend Pippen? Hornacek?

If you look at the recent trend of the league. Teams usually adjusts to the best team/player of the league. Like teams stacking up their bigs (that sonics big that was overpaid) against shaq. Teams stacking up their wings (ruben patterson?) against Kobe. And so forth..

But against MJ and Pippen. Why did they just settle on Byron Russell and having Hornacek to defend Pippen?

They took Jordan's Bulls 6 games in '97, 3 of those losses being 4 points or less. They knew it was the end of Stockton and Malone's careers and didn't want to completely change things up when they were so close and the Bulls were showing signs of running out of gas.

Teams also in general didn't make the same level of year to year roster changes back then like they do now.

You’re right here. Watched first episode of last dance. And the entire series pretty much shows how the Bulls were running out of gas for their last shot for a title

[Kobblehead]

I dont think Celts knew about this either

I doubt they knew to what extent his mom was creepily possessive of him, but they definitely were scared off by something. Either his jumpshot during their workouts or his mindstate during their interviews.

[Kobblehead]

If Gobert does get traded, it's likely to be one of our playoff rivals in the East right?

[Eyeamok]

Regarding Fultz and Sixers not doing their homework.

I dont think Celts knew about this either and I believe most NBA players’ parents are annoying and nosy about their son’s career. I mean.. even Justin Bieber or Macaulay Culkins have similar experiences.

Fultz had a lot of stress with what he went through. He also isn’t mentally tough. But personally, I don’t think its the reason why he had the yips or some shoulder injury. Its not related.

P.S. on a related note, I believe DRose’s struggles were not because of him trying to recover from his ACL but more of his rape case. Once it cleared up, his game just went back to normal.

I still think there was a lot of ego involved with this pick. BC was living in Hinkies shadow and wanted to make a big splash of his own. Maneuvering to get the #1 pick was his stamp on the team. He may have seen signs that Fultz was not all he thought he was but he was all in. So no matter what "little" quirks Fultz may have exhibited at the time, they could be fixed, BC was committed to making Fultz his pick. And BC had got the pick not by tanking but by wheeling and dealing. Sure it was on the back of Hinkie but that was just a formality.

As far as the Celtics are concerned. But Isiah Thomas was injured and becoming a free agent. You have the chance to pick up by all accounts, a young stud in Fultz to replace Isiah, if you don't want to pay him or think the injury is going to be a problem. You have just made ti to the conference finfals and you pass on the #1 picks. To me that would have been a big danger sign a massive red flag for the 76ers organization. Which it seems they ignored.

The

[Sixerscan]

If Gobert does get traded, it's likely to be one of our playoff rivals in the East right?

He doesn't fit Milwaukee's 4 out around Giannis.
I don't see the Celtics path to matching salaries unless they include Hayward (which would be very funny)
Heat already have Bam
Pacers already have one too many centers
Nets don't have a filler/Jordan is their franchise players' buddy
Raptors might be able to make the $ work, but again I don't think he fits how they want to play, and they'd have to move on from some guys who do in order to make the $ work.
Maybe some sort of Vucevic package from the Magic could work?

There's a lot of similar concerns out west. I don't think he'd get a very good return unless the Jazz were willing to take salary back. He's a hard player to fit into another team in terms of salary matching and play style.

Dallas might be a good fit. He can fill that Chandler role for Carlisle on both ends and they have the Hardaway expiring (not sure what else they could include to entice the Jazz though). He would also be a perfect hit in Stotts' defense that has the center drop back, maybe something involving Nurkic.

[youngcrev]

If Gobert does get traded, it's likely to be one of our playoff rivals in the East right?

He doesn't fit Milwaukee's 4 out around Giannis.
I don't see the Celtics path to matching salaries unless they include Hayward (which would be very funny)
Heat already have Bam
Pacers already have one too many centers
Nets don't have a filler/Jordan is their franchise players' buddy
Raptors might be able to make the $ work, but again I don't think he fits how they want to play, and they'd have to move on from some guys who do in order to make the $ work.
Maybe some sort of Vucevic package from the Magic could work?

There's a lot of similar concerns out west. I don't think he'd get a very good return unless the Jazz were willing to take salary back. He's a hard player to fit into another team in terms of salary matching and play style.

Dallas might be a good fit. He can fill that Chandler role for Carlisle on both ends and they have the Hardaway expiring (not sure what else they could include to entice the Jazz though). He would also be a perfect hit in Stotts' defense that has the center drop back, maybe something involving Nurkic.

I think the Nets could be a scary landing spot. Dinwiddie + Prince or LeVert gets you there salary-wise. Jarett Allen seems like a fairly valued piece for whatever reason (I'm sure my opinion is skewed by watching Embiid devour him). They've got our pick this year and all of their future picks.

That said, I'm not really expecting the Jazz to make a move.

[76ciology]

If Gobert is going to get traded, i’m expecting him to be had for a cheap return. Nobody is paying much for centers nowadays. You want something cheap? Call the Blazers.

I doubt Celts will pay a lot for Gobert. Gobert doesnt even fit Stevens system.

Bucks will not want Gobert. It’s key for them to have a stretch 5, to pull away guys like Gobert for Giannis to operate.

[Negrodamus]

I'd honestly rather have Whiteside than Gobert and he was acquired for Harkless and Meyers Leonard. Gobert will probably be more expensive than that.

[Kobblehead]

If none of the Eastern playoff teams feel the urgency to get an Embiid counter, I think that speaks volumes about what they think of our approach.

[76ciology]

If you can backtrack the gen board like 3-4 years ago. I told the guys there that the reason why Jazz wont go anywhere is because of Gobert. A guy like him should be a role player and not a franchise player.

The game has changed tremendously that team’s implement stretch 5s and forces switch to pull guys like Gobert away.

[Kobblehead]

Yeah, you were early on that. 3-4 years ago, I was willing to give Nerlens Noel a max. Ooph.

[76ciology]

Another thing i notice during that JJ interview was when he was asked about wingspan and it’s importance. And I feel like he’s describing Roco with regards to a guy who is not a good individual defender and gets beat, but have the wingspan to make up for it.

[76ciology]

Yeah, you were early on that. 3-4 years ago, I was willing to give Nerlens Noel a max. Ooph.

Nerlens will turn it down and ask for super max.