Sixers Offseason Thread Part 3

[Arsenal]

Clips first round picks that they can trade
2028, 2029 and 2030.

They’d be dumb not to put protections with those picks.

2029 can only be a swap than, no? (Stepien rule)

Yup. Swap only. But can be traded if 2029 pick then 2028 or 2030 was a swap. If im not mistaken

They can trade swaps in 27+29 plus 1sts in 28+30. We should get all 4 considering Harden is the missing piece to put them over the top.

[hookshot199]

I know he's old, slow and washed, and that we've got our fill on those guys, but I'd still love to have Kyle Lowry as a buyout guy. I think he'd be a perfect mentor for Maxey and still has enough left in the tank for a low minute, settle the troops role off the bench.

The key is "buyout".

If not, the only way to get him is to trade. He's an expiring. What might we trade to take his $28 million? Tobias is $39 million. PJ's $11 million. That's $50 million. Coming back: Caleb Martin: $6.8 million and Duncan Robinson? Three years and year one at $18.1 million, year three at $20 million

We'd surely need a pick. But we'd get two excellent rotation players who can shoot.

I think Riley would probably agree to Robinson ($28+$18=$46 million), but he needs every pick plus Martin to make the Lillard trade. Would Kevin Love, two years at around $4 million each, work for us?

Again, we still need a pick, I think.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/14kgbzy/jackson_according_to_two_sources_the_heat_has/

[youngcrev]

I know he's old, slow and washed, and that we've got our fill on those guys, but I'd still love to have Kyle Lowry as a buyout guy. I think he'd be a perfect mentor for Maxey and still has enough left in the tank for a low minute, settle the troops role off the bench.

The key is "buyout".

If not, the only way to get him is to trade. He's an expiring. What might we trade to take his $28 million? Tobias is $39 million. PJ's $11 million. That's $50 million. Coming back: Caleb Martin: $6.8 million and Duncan Robinson? Three years and year one at $18.1 million, year three at $20 million

We'd surely need a pick. But we'd get two excellent rotation players who can shoot.

I think Riley would probably agree to Robinson ($28+$18=$46 million), but he needs every pick plus Martin to make the Lillard trade. Would Kevin Love, two years at around $4 million each, work for us?

Again, we still need a pick, I think.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/14kgbzy/jackson_according_to_two_sources_the_heat_has/

Correct, the key word is buyout, post Dame trade. Zero interest trading for him at that amount.

[hookshot199]

I know he's old, slow and washed, and that we've got our fill on those guys, but I'd still love to have Kyle Lowry as a buyout guy. I think he'd be a perfect mentor for Maxey and still has enough left in the tank for a low minute, settle the troops role off the bench.

The key is "buyout".

If not, the only way to get him is to trade. He's an expiring. What might we trade to take his $28 million? Tobias is $39 million. PJ's $11 million. That's $50 million. Coming back: Caleb Martin: $6.8 million and Duncan Robinson? Three years and year one at $18.1 million, year three at $20 million

We'd surely need a pick. But we'd get two excellent rotation players who can shoot.

I think Riley would probably agree to Robinson ($28+$18=$46 million), but he needs every pick plus Martin to make the Lillard trade. Would Kevin Love, two years at around $4 million each, work for us?

Again, we still need a pick, I think.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/14kgbzy/jackson_according_to_two_sources_the_heat_has/

Correct, the key word is buyout, post Dame trade. Zero interest trading for him at that amount.

But if we unload Tobias's and PJ's $50 mil...

[youngcrev]

The key is "buyout".

If not, the only way to get him is to trade. He's an expiring. What might we trade to take his $28 million? Tobias is $39 million. PJ's $11 million. That's $50 million. Coming back: Caleb Martin: $6.8 million and Duncan Robinson? Three years and year one at $18.1 million, year three at $20 million

We'd surely need a pick. But we'd get two excellent rotation players who can shoot.

I think Riley would probably agree to Robinson ($28+$18=$46 million), but he needs every pick plus Martin to make the Lillard trade. Would Kevin Love, two years at around $4 million each, work for us?

Again, we still need a pick, I think.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/14kgbzy/jackson_according_to_two_sources_the_heat_has/

Correct, the key word is buyout, post Dame trade. Zero interest trading for him at that amount.

But if we unload Tobias's and PJ's $50 mil...

That's not off loading, it's taking different, worse money.

[Snotbubbles]

Just what I was going to say. The Sixers played 4 on 5 on offense all season long with Tucker. I hated most of those minutes. Tucker wouldn't take shots unless he was wide open, and even then sometimes. Reed makes scoring moves, both with his back to the basket and facing up. There's just no comparison.

What you're proposing is the definition of insanity. It doesn't work. It didn't work with Ben Simmons. It didn't work with Tucker. It won't work with Reed.

You seem to have a very poor understanding of insanity. But nonsense is easy to grasp, and what you're writing is nonsense. Nice chatting with you.

Sure thing buddy.

Let's get a stretch 4 that doesn't stretch. But he can make scoring moves with his back to the basket and facing up. That also clogs the paints and kills spacing. 2017-2021 called, they want Ben Simmons back.

If Paul Reed is not capable of taking 4 or 5 threes a game and hitting them at a respectable clip (say min 35%) HE CAN'T PLAY THE 4. Plain and simple. He's hasn't shown any ability or indication in the 3 seasons he's been with Philly that he will take OR make a 3 point shot. He's shooting 15% from 3 in the 3 seasons he's been here. Mo Bamba is a more viable PF than Reed at this point.

Please people, stop with the G League stuff. It's the G League. What's next we're going to go sign Jacob Gilyard to be our PG because he led the G League in assists?

As a moderator, your personal attack is strange and unbecoming. When debate is lost, slander is the tool of the loser.

[Kobblehead]

I know he's old, slow and washed, and that we've got our fill on those guys, but I'd still love to have Kyle Lowry as a buyout guy. I think he'd be a perfect mentor for Maxey and still has enough left in the tank for a low minute, settle the troops role off the bench.

We're getting dangerously close to forming the Lollipop Guild with Maxey, Melton, Beverley, and Lowry.

[youngcrev]

I know he's old, slow and washed, and that we've got our fill on those guys, but I'd still love to have Kyle Lowry as a buyout guy. I think he'd be a perfect mentor for Maxey and still has enough left in the tank for a low minute, settle the troops role off the bench.

We're getting dangerously close to forming the Lollipop Guild with Maxey, Melton, Beverley, and Lowry.

Nurse could shift from all 6'8", long athletes to only PGs and Cs. The league isn't ready.

[Kobblehead]

Zhaire Smith coming back as a smallball C

[mjkvol]

Read on Twitter

If Miami gets that deal, only giving up one of the kids and ridding themselves of Lowry and the Herro contract, it could be a heist if Lillard can give them a couple of good years.

I had hoped that Morey standing up to Simmons might signal a change in this 'player empowerment' bullschiit, but it appears the Blazers will cave to Lillard. Damn shame.

[Ben]

What you're proposing is the definition of insanity. It doesn't work. It didn't work with Ben Simmons. It didn't work with Tucker. It won't work with Reed.

You seem to have a very poor understanding of insanity. But nonsense is easy to grasp, and what you're writing is nonsense. Nice chatting with you.

Sure thing buddy.

Let's get a stretch 4 that doesn't stretch. But he can make scoring moves with his back to the basket and facing up. That also clogs the paints and kills spacing. 2017-2021 called, they want Ben Simmons back.

If Paul Reed is not capable of taking 4 or 5 threes a game and hitting them at a respectable clip (say min 35%) HE CAN'T PLAY THE 4. Plain and simple. He's hasn't shown any ability or indication in the 3 seasons he's been with Philly that he will take OR make a 3 point shot. He's shooting 15% from 3 in the 3 seasons he's been here. Mo Bamba is a more viable PF than Reed at this point.

Please people, stop with the G League stuff. It's the G League. What's next we're going to go sign Jacob Gilyard to be our PG because he led the G League in assists?

As a moderator, your personal attack is strange and unbecoming. When debate is lost, slander is the tool of the loser.

Personal attack? You just wrote that I was spouting insanity. Then when I respond by telling you that you're writing nonsense, I'm making a personal attack? That's gaslighting, dude. No one's buying that. Discussion on this board has been really great and civil all summer. Let's drop that other stuff and just talk basketball, OK?

Your original premise was that because the Celtics stopped guarding PJ Tucker in the playoffs, that same thing would happen with Paul Reed, and that with him the Sixers would be playing 4 on 5 re: offense. So your initial premise seems to have been that Reed is like Tucker. But he's not. Tucker won't shoot. He took 5.8 shots per 36 minutes last year. That's awful. He wouldn't shoot 3s unless wide open, and (as I wrote earlier) sometimes not even then. Reed is not like Tucker in that regard, so your initial premise was faulty.

Then after Arsenal and I responded you doubled down by invoking that line often wrongly attributed to Einstein, which Einstein never actually said, about the definition of insanity being that you try the same thing over and over and expect different results. That point relies on Reed being the "same thing" as Tucker, but again, he's not. You included Ben Simmons; but Reed is not the same or even close to the same as Ben Simmons. Simmons, of course a PG rather than a PF, became an untenable liability when he developed that unbelievable aversion to shooting for fear of being fouled and his FGA dropped to 8.5/36. He wouldn't shoot so of course the Sixers were playing 4 on 5. But that's not Reed. Tucker's a 3P shooter who won't shoot enough; Simmons is a non-3P shooting player who developed such a complex that he wouldn't take contested 2P shots in the playoffs (or even the regular season, eventually); Reed is neither of those things. If he plays with 4 other guys who can shoot 3s, he's not killing the offense and the team doesn't play 4 on 5.

In this last post you say we need a stretch 4, but one who'll reliably shoot 4 or 5 per game. But of course it has to be someone who can defend and hopefully protect the rim, since Embiid doesn't play near the basket all the time. That's great. What's your proposal? Which PF is going to do all of those things and not play in Embiid's space? And that player's available in which trade or signing?

At any rate, your second premise (after Reed being the same as Tucker and as Simmons) seems to be that teams must field 5 starters who can all shoot a lot of 3s, and reliably. But it's another faulty premise. Consider, say, Draymond Green and the Warriors when they won the title. (Sometimes they even started Green AND Looney, neither of whom is a reliable 3P shooter.) Or the Heat, with Bam Abedayo.

Do we know that Reed will play well as a starter? We don't. Do we know how he'll fare in the playoffs? We don't. Do we know whether he'll expand his offensive arsenal quickly? We don't. We DO know that the Sixers won both playoff games in which he logged 30+ minutes, against Brooklyn and then Boston, as a 23 year old. So at least there's reason for hope. The Sixers might well not advance past the 2nd playoff round this year, maybe not even the first, but if so, I really doubt that it'll be because of Paul Reed. This team's facing a lot of uncertainty. My own hope is that during this uncertain time Reed gets a serious chance to show what he can do, is allowed to play through mistakes and to develop as a player. At the very least that should increase his trade value significantly. And at best it translates into Sixers success.

Anyway, I'm obviously not going to convince you and that's fine. Time will tell. (Reed probably won't be the starting PF so it'll probably be moot.)

[youngcrev]

I think putting a worse shooter on the floor would only compound the problem in regard to how the Celtics were defending. As Nurse likes to point out, defense is give and take. The Celtics were trying to take away the PnR/shut down the paint, and willing to sacrifice giving up that corner 3 in doing so. They were leaving Melton open as well, not just Tucker. Put an even worse 3 point shooter out there and that strategy becomes even more effective, because the more you miss that shot, the longer they stay in that look. It was kinda similar to a zone strategy. Zone defenses frequently give up wide open 3s, but can make offenses a bit one dimensional. The more teams miss those open looks, the longer a team will stay in that concept. The reverse is true as well, make a few in a row and that zone get abandoned quick.

But that's also where Nurse's comments about being less predictable come in. Harden kicking to the corner for those open looks, as obnoxious as it was, was likely the right play based on their game plan. But when those aren't falling, there's got to be more counters than just trying it over and over again.

[ProcessDoctor]

Read on Twitter

If Miami gets that deal, only giving up one of the kids and ridding themselves of Lowry and the Herro contract, it could be a heist if Lillard can give them a couple of good years.

I had hoped that Morey standing up to Simmons might signal a change in this 'player empowerment' bullschiit, but it appears the Blazers will cave to Lillard. Damn shame.

Idk man that source looks fake AF.

[Ben]

I think putting a worse shooter on the floor would only compound the problem in regard to how the Celtics were defending. As Nurse likes to point out, defense is give and take. The Celtics were trying to take away the PnR/shut down the paint, and willing to sacrifice giving up that corner 3 in doing so. They were leaving Melton open as well, not just Tucker. Put an even worse 3 point shooter out there and that strategy becomes even more effective, because the more you miss that shot, the longer they stay in that look. It was kinda similar to a zone strategy. Zone defenses frequently give up wide open 3s, but can make offenses a bit one dimensional. The more teams miss those open looks, the longer a team will stay in that concept. The reverse is true as well, make a few in a row and that zone get abandoned quick.

But that's also where Nurse's comments about being less predictable come in. Harden kicking to the corner for those open looks, as obnoxious as it was, was likely the right play based on their game plan. But when those aren't falling, there's got to be more counters than just trying it over and over again.

Fair points, and I appreciate looking at specific instance and opposing teams' strategies. A young guy like Reed would need to learn through experience and my own hope would be that by actually getting PT during the season, he'd further develop his ability to shoot under pressure or at least to pass out of difficult situations. He didn't get that PT under Doc. The difference b/w him and, say, Simmons is that Reed's been willing to shoot 3s in college and G-league, and Simmons never was. And he'll attack the basket, which Tucker won't do. His form's bad so someone would need to regard him as a player worth developing offensively. I'm hoping that by investing in his contract the team will feel compelled to do that work. But it's an unknown.

[Jailblazers7]

I have a lot more confidence in Reed shooting under pressure after he swished those 4 FTs in game 1 vs Boston. Give him a coach that builds his confidence rather than harms it & I think he could end up being a Bobby Portis type forward on offense.

And of course Reed adds another level of activity. It’s a tougher proposition to just stick a shot blocker on him who can help on drive. That will free up Reed to be aggressive on the offensive glass, where he’s much better & an actual finishing threat compared to PJ.

Both Boston & Milwaukee have double bigs in their best lineups. We need to have our own counter to that & PJ obviously wasn’t the answer.

[Arsenal]

I know he's old, slow and washed, and that we've got our fill on those guys, but I'd still love to have Kyle Lowry as a buyout guy. I think he'd be a perfect mentor for Maxey and still has enough left in the tank for a low minute, settle the troops role off the bench.

We're getting dangerously close to forming the Lollipop Guild with Maxey, Melton, Beverley, and Lowry.

This. If we're bringing in more munchkins, some of those we have already need to go.

[youngcrev]

I think putting a worse shooter on the floor would only compound the problem in regard to how the Celtics were defending. As Nurse likes to point out, defense is give and take. The Celtics were trying to take away the PnR/shut down the paint, and willing to sacrifice giving up that corner 3 in doing so. They were leaving Melton open as well, not just Tucker. Put an even worse 3 point shooter out there and that strategy becomes even more effective, because the more you miss that shot, the longer they stay in that look. It was kinda similar to a zone strategy. Zone defenses frequently give up wide open 3s, but can make offenses a bit one dimensional. The more teams miss those open looks, the longer a team will stay in that concept. The reverse is true as well, make a few in a row and that zone get abandoned quick.

But that's also where Nurse's comments about being less predictable come in. Harden kicking to the corner for those open looks, as obnoxious as it was, was likely the right play based on their game plan. But when those aren't falling, there's got to be more counters than just trying it over and over again.

Fair points, and I appreciate looking at specific instance and opposing teams' strategies. A young guy like Reed would need to learn through experience and my own hope would be that by actually getting PT during the season, he'd further develop his ability to shoot under pressure or at least to pass out of difficult situations. He didn't get that PT under Doc. The difference b/w him and, say, Simmons is that Reed's been willing to shoot 3s in college and G-league, and Simmons never was. And he'll attack the basket, which Tucker won't do. His form's bad so someone would need to regard him as a player worth developing offensively. I'm hoping that by investing in his contract the team will feel compelled to do that work. But it's an unknown.

I think Reed's a guy you throw in to junk up the game rather than someone you rely on to consistently be one of your top 5.

He can make some plays defensively (although, again, fouls to much to be relied on consistently) and can get you some extra possessions with his offensive rebounding.

If he can be a reliable spot up shooter that certainly makes him a more useful player and an easier fit with Embiid, but I don't think that's the only thing holding him back from being a starter on this team.

[youngcrev]

I have a lot more confidence in Reed shooting under pressure after he swished those 4 FTs in game 1 vs Boston. Give him a coach that builds his confidence rather than harms it & I think he could end up being a Bobby Portis type forward on offense.

And of course Reed adds another level of activity. It’s a tougher proposition to just stick a shot blocker on him who can help on drive. That will free up Reed to be aggressive on the offensive glass, where he’s much better & an actual finishing threat compared to PJ.

Both Boston & Milwaukee have double bigs in their best lineups. We need to have our own counter to that & PJ obviously wasn’t the answer.

Yeah, I could see Portis if he can develop the shot, but that's a pretty big if.

On the flip side, I think he moves his feet better and makes more plays defensively than Portis, so still useful even if he doesn't get there on the other end.

[FireMorey]

Latest from Amick:

With Harden, we’ve already seen how messy it can get when his trade request isn’t being granted as quickly as he would like. During those final weeks of his Houston era, when Morey had already left his Rockets front office post for Philadelphia and Harden had decided in November 2021 that it was time to move on, he showed up to training camp late after partying in Atlanta and Las Vegas, causing all kinds of consternation inside the locker room once he arrived. The later stages of his Brooklyn experience had similar vibes, with Morey using Harden’s unhappiness to his advantage in negotiations with the Nets before that February 2022 trade to Philadelphia.

Yet despite all that relevant history, and in spite of the fact that Morey may know Harden, and all of his complexities, better than anyone in the NBA, rival executives with whom I spoke at summer league were universally convinced that the Sixers are now attempting to keep Harden. Discontent be damned.

The sluggish trade talks between the Sixers and Clippers about Harden would seem to support this stance. Morey is known to be asking for the kind of return that — as of Tuesday afternoon — left the strong impression that he had no genuine interest in getting a deal done anytime soon.

Harden’s stance has not changed, a source close to him told The Athletic. He still wants to leave Philadelphia. He’s still upset with how Morey handled his situation heading into possible free agency last month. And even with the recent revelation that Harden attended the same NBPA party as Sixers co-star Joel Embiid and former Sixers owner Michael Rubin in Vegas, he’s still determined to start next season in a Clippers jersey.

[Jailblazers7]

I do think Harden likely learned his lesson from the Houston experience that he at least needs to stay in shape. He let himself go as part of his Houston discontent, which led to that hamstring injury & a two year recovery period. He could still make this situation ugly but he’d be dumb to show up out of shape.