2017 Pick Watch (Sac Swap Rights, LAL pick)

[Unbreakable99]

I want the Pelicans to lose and somehow get in the top three in the lotto just to show how awful a trade that Vlade did to trade Cousins.

I want them to get into the top 3, to knock the Celtics and Lakers out of the top 3.

That too.

[Sixerscan]

Not that makes much difference but I think Hawks sits at 19th right now with 9 full games ahead of Mav.

You're right. They're a game behind the thunder so it's pretty much the same story.

The real funny part is that directly behind the Hawks are the teams like the pacers and bulls who are hovering around .500. So the protection was perfectly crafted to look as good as possible without having an actual chance of conveying. If it was only top 15 or even top 17 there may have been a chance for that pick to be something beyond a lead line of a press release.

I can easily imagine Mavs end up being the 18th. They play better and better with season goes on and Cuban is a genious to know how to set the protection of this pick. If we still had 30 games left I can definately see a chance Mavs past ahead of the inconsistent Hawks but right now it maybe too late ...

Well they wouldn't have to just pass the Hawks they would have to hope none of the 10 teams between them and the Hawks get similarly hot and keep pace.

[phiphan]

Yeah, Skal looks really good.

Yeah, but we really had to have Korkmaz...

What did he do? His stats look uneventful. I will never regret not taking Skal after he essentially gave up on Kentucky.

Is it fair to say Cal doesn't coach 'next gen' big men well? Seems like Skal was never allowed to play to his strengths on offense, same with KAT.

[Negrodamus]

Yeah, but we really had to have Korkmaz...

What did he do? His stats look uneventful. I will never regret not taking Skal after he essentially gave up on Kentucky.

Is it fair to say Cal doesn't coach 'next gen' big men well? Seems like Skal was never allowed to play to his strengths on offense, same with KAT.

I don't think he coaches them poorly. He really wants them to take high percentage shots because they are, in most cases, enormous. Worked with AD. I think KAT played well given the crazy circumstances of the stacked team.

He allowed Randle free will to drive from the top of the key. I guess it all depends. Skal was just too weak and seemed to only want to take 3s or midrange.

[LloydFree]

Yeah, but we really had to have Korkmaz...

What did he do? His stats look uneventful. I will never regret not taking Skal after he essentially gave up on Kentucky.

Is it fair to say Cal doesn't coach 'next gen' big men well? Seems like Skal was never allowed to play to his strengths on offense, same with KAT.

Calipari's Offense stinks for big men and small men. Primitive and unimaginative. Skal would have been better prepared going to Kansas, but he may have had to stay a couple years. That's the trade-off, Cal gets you drafted.

[kriss73]

The Kings could (and more important for them, should) go 3-19 the rest of the way.

[Negrodamus]

What did he do? His stats look uneventful. I will never regret not taking Skal after he essentially gave up on Kentucky.

Is it fair to say Cal doesn't coach 'next gen' big men well? Seems like Skal was never allowed to play to his strengths on offense, same with KAT.

Calipari's Offense stinks for big men and small men. Primitive and unimaginative. Skal would have been better prepared going to Kansas, but he may have had to stay a couple years. That's the trade-off, Cal gets you drafted.

It is primitive but it requires you to check your ego at the door. There's no Fultz or Smith situation. Your job is broken down to its essentials. That way, if you're good, you'll thrive. Also, you aren't marginalized if you stay more than one season (Bristol, Ulis, Poythress, WCS, Dakari Johnson, etc)

Or go to Kansas. Carl Bragg is having a big season, right?

[LloydFree]

Is it fair to say Cal doesn't coach 'next gen' big men well? Seems like Skal was never allowed to play to his strengths on offense, same with KAT.

Calipari's Offense stinks for big men and small men. Primitive and unimaginative. Skal would have been better prepared going to Kansas, but he may have had to stay a couple years. That's the trade-off, Cal gets you drafted.

It is primitive but it requires you to check your ego at the door. There's no Fultz or Smith situation. Your job is broken down to its essentials. That way, if you're good, you'll thrive. Also, you aren't marginalized if you stay more than one season (Bristol, Ulis, Poythress, WCS, Dakari Johnson, etc)

That's the point. If you are already great when you get there, you're fine. If you need help to become great (like Embiid) you won't get it. You'll get put on the bench defamed like Labisserre.

**The only reason Calipari doesn't have a "Fultz or Dennis Smith situation" is because he has 5 or more Fultz and DSj's altogether, so his players never have that kind of burden by themselves.

[Negrodamus]

Calipari's Offense stinks for big men and small men. Primitive and unimaginative. Skal would have been better prepared going to Kansas, but he may have had to stay a couple years. That's the trade-off, Cal gets you drafted.

It is primitive but it requires you to check your ego at the door. There's no Fultz or Smith situation. Your job is broken down to its essentials. That way, if you're good, you'll thrive. Also, you aren't marginalized if you stay more than one season (Bristol, Ulis, Poythress, WCS, Dakari Johnson, etc)

That's the point. If you are already great when you get there, you're fine. If you need help to become great (like Embiid) you won't get it. You'll get put on the bench defamed like Labisserre.

**The only reason Calipari doesn't have a "Fultz or Dennis Smith situation" is because he has 5 or more Fultz and DSj's altogether, so his players never have that kind of burden by themselves.

Who has he defamed? Skal was given every chance to succeed at the cost of infuriating the fan base. He was not Embiid. Embiids only problem was fouling too much. Effort was never an issue. Cal would have NEVER benched Embiid to rot on the bench. If Cal has ever been guilty of anything, it's giving too much rope on blue chip recruits that weren't worth the hype.

[Kobblehead]

If Skal and Cheick Diallo switched places, Skal would have still been buried on the depth chart and Cheick would have been a top 10 pick.

[LloydFree]

It is primitive but it requires you to check your ego at the door. There's no Fultz or Smith situation. Your job is broken down to its essentials. That way, if you're good, you'll thrive. Also, you aren't marginalized if you stay more than one season (Bristol, Ulis, Poythress, WCS, Dakari Johnson, etc)

That's the point. If you are already great when you get there, you're fine. If you need help to become great (like Embiid) you won't get it. You'll get put on the bench defamed like Labisserre.

**The only reason Calipari doesn't have a "Fultz or Dennis Smith situation" is because he has 5 or more Fultz and DSj's altogether, so his players never have that kind of burden by themselves.

Who has he defamed? Skal was given every chance to succeed at the cost of infuriating the fan base. He was not Embiid. Embiids only problem was fouling too much. Effort was never an issue. Cal would have NEVER benched Embiid to rot on the bench. If Cal has ever been guilty of anything, it's giving too much rope on blue chip recruits that weren't worth the hype.

If Embiid would have gone to Kentucky he wouldn't have developed half of the things he did at Kansas. He would have never even learned how to receive a simple entry pass into the post. Let alone any post moves or passing. He wouldn't have learned anything other than how to catch a lob off dribble penetration. Kentucky's Offense is trash. Drive to the basket and hope to get fouled or get the offensive rebound, and win by attrition. He doesn't teach his big men anything that they didn't already bring with them to the school.

[Negrodamus]

That's the point. If you are already great when you get there, you're fine. If you need help to become great (like Embiid) you won't get it. You'll get put on the bench defamed like Labisserre.

**The only reason Calipari doesn't have a "Fultz or Dennis Smith situation" is because he has 5 or more Fultz and DSj's altogether, so his players never have that kind of burden by themselves.

Who has he defamed? Skal was given every chance to succeed at the cost of infuriating the fan base. He was not Embiid. Embiids only problem was fouling too much. Effort was never an issue. Cal would have NEVER benched Embiid to rot on the bench. If Cal has ever been guilty of anything, it's giving too much rope on blue chip recruits that weren't worth the hype.

If Embiid would have gone to Kentucky he wouldn't have developed half of the things he did at Kansas. He would have never even learned how to receive a simple entry pass into the post. Let alone any post moves or passing. He wouldn't have learned anything other than how to catch a long off dribble penetration. Kentucky's Offense is trash. Drive to the basket and hope to get fouled or get the offensive rebound, and win by attrition. He doesn't teach his big men anything that they didn't already bring with them to the school.

I don't know how you can confidently say this. You've evaluated all of the KU and UK post players from when they were in HS all the way through their freshman year and noted how their post game improved? Or are you taking one instance of Joel Embiid, who has stated that he watches something once, tries it out a few times, and masters it (the exception; not the norm) and base your argument completely on that?

Say what you want about Calipari's offense, but don't tell me Bill Self is developing post players better than Calipari. I've never seen a man squander more talent than Self.

Since Calipari has taken over at UK, let's compare first round picks of the two:

Calipari:

John Wall+
DeMarcus Cousins*
Patrick Patterson
Eric Bledsoe
Daniel Orton
Enes Kanter
Brandon Knight
Anthony Davis*
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Terrence Jones
Marquis Teague
Nerlens Noel
Archie Goodwin
Julius Randle
James Young
Karl-Anthony Towns
Willie Cauley-Stein
Trey Lyles
Devin Booker
Jamal Murray
Skal Labissière

Self:

Xavier Henry
Cole Aldrich
Markieff Morris
Marcus Morris
Ben McLemore
Andrew Wiggins
Joel Embiid
Kelly Oubre Jr.

* Denotes player who has been selected for at least one All-Star Game and All-NBA Team
+ Denotes player who has been selected for at least one All-Star Game


You can argue that Kentucky runs a rudimentary offensive system or that Cal's success is due to the talent he brings in; but I'll argue until I'm blue in the face that Calipari develops talent better than Self; a coach at an almost equal program, recruiting at the same level. Cal has produced all NBA players in his time at UK. Self has produced journeymen, a good scorer, and 3/4 of a year of (hopefully) an all star if he can stay healthy.

[LloydFree]

Who has he defamed? Skal was given every chance to succeed at the cost of infuriating the fan base. He was not Embiid. Embiids only problem was fouling too much. Effort was never an issue. Cal would have NEVER benched Embiid to rot on the bench. If Cal has ever been guilty of anything, it's giving too much rope on blue chip recruits that weren't worth the hype.

If Embiid would have gone to Kentucky he wouldn't have developed half of the things he did at Kansas. He would have never even learned how to receive a simple entry pass into the post. Let alone any post moves or passing. He wouldn't have learned anything other than how to catch a long off dribble penetration. Kentucky's Offense is trash. Drive to the basket and hope to get fouled or get the offensive rebound, and win by attrition. He doesn't teach his big men anything that they didn't already bring with them to the school.

I don't know how you can confidently say this. You've evaluated all of the KU and UK post players from when they were in HS all the way through their freshman year and noted how their post game improved? Or are you taking one instance of Joel Embiid, who has stated that he watches something once, tries it out a few times, and masters it (the exception; not the norm) and base your argument completely on that?

Say what you want about Calipari's offense, but don't tell me Bill Self is developing post players better than Calipari. I've never seen a man squander more talent than Self.

Since Calipari has taken over at UK, let's compare first round picks of the two:

Calipari:

John Wall+
DeMarcus Cousins*
Patrick Patterson
Eric Bledsoe
Daniel Orton
Enes Kanter
Brandon Knight
Anthony Davis*
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Terrence Jones
Marquis Teague
Nerlens Noel
Archie Goodwin
Julius Randle
James Young
Karl-Anthony Towns
Willie Cauley-Stein
Trey Lyles
Devin Booker
Jamal Murray
Skal Labissière

Self:

Xavier Henry
Cole Aldrich
Markieff Morris
Marcus Morris
Ben McLemore
Andrew Wiggins
Joel Embiid
Kelly Oubre Jr.

* Denotes player who has been selected for at least one All-Star Game and All-NBA Team
+ Denotes player who has been selected for at least one All-Star Game


You can argue that Kentucky runs a rudimentary offensive system or that Cal's success is due to the talent he brings in; but I'll argue until I'm blue in the face that Calipari develops talent better than Self; a coach at an almost equal program, recruiting at the same level. Cal has produced all NBA players in his time at UK. Self has produced journeymen, a good scorer, and 3/4 of a year of (hopefully) an all star if he can stay healthy.

Oh please. Don't give me lists. I know the players. It's not hard to produce lottery picks when the players (Rose, Wall, Cousins, Davis, Gilchrist, Noel, Randle and Towns) were already the #1 or #2 players in the country when they got there. They were all going in the lottery even if they went to St Joe's or Temple. He didn't teach them anything.
If you are a big man, and you go to Kentucky, you better come into your Freshman season physically dominant to your peers or you aren't going to get any run, and you're not going to be developed any better than when you got there. A guy like Dakari Johnson, who was a better HS player than Joel Embiid, but had no real physical advantages over his peers gets sent to the bench and can't get into the league. While Kansas takes a Tarik Black or Cole Aldridge and makes them a 10 year NBA player.

[Negrodamus]

If Embiid would have gone to Kentucky he wouldn't have developed half of the things he did at Kansas. He would have never even learned how to receive a simple entry pass into the post. Let alone any post moves or passing. He wouldn't have learned anything other than how to catch a long off dribble penetration. Kentucky's Offense is trash. Drive to the basket and hope to get fouled or get the offensive rebound, and win by attrition. He doesn't teach his big men anything that they didn't already bring with them to the school.

I don't know how you can confidently say this. You've evaluated all of the KU and UK post players from when they were in HS all the way through their freshman year and noted how their post game improved? Or are you taking one instance of Joel Embiid, who has stated that he watches something once, tries it out a few times, and masters it (the exception; not the norm) and base your argument completely on that?

Say what you want about Calipari's offense, but don't tell me Bill Self is developing post players better than Calipari. I've never seen a man squander more talent than Self.

Since Calipari has taken over at UK, let's compare first round picks of the two:

Calipari:

John Wall+
DeMarcus Cousins*
Patrick Patterson
Eric Bledsoe
Daniel Orton
Enes Kanter
Brandon Knight
Anthony Davis*
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Terrence Jones
Marquis Teague
Nerlens Noel
Archie Goodwin
Julius Randle
James Young
Karl-Anthony Towns
Willie Cauley-Stein
Trey Lyles
Devin Booker
Jamal Murray
Skal Labissière

Self:

Xavier Henry
Cole Aldrich
Markieff Morris
Marcus Morris
Ben McLemore
Andrew Wiggins
Joel Embiid
Kelly Oubre Jr.

* Denotes player who has been selected for at least one All-Star Game and All-NBA Team
+ Denotes player who has been selected for at least one All-Star Game


You can argue that Kentucky runs a rudimentary offensive system or that Cal's success is due to the talent he brings in; but I'll argue until I'm blue in the face that Calipari develops talent better than Self; a coach at an almost equal program, recruiting at the same level. Cal has produced all NBA players in his time at UK. Self has produced journeymen, a good scorer, and 3/4 of a year of (hopefully) an all star if he can stay healthy.

Oh please. Don't give me lists. I know the players. It's not hard to produce lottery picks when the players ( Rose, Wall, Cousins, Davis, Gilchrist, Noel, Randle and Towns were already the #1 or #2 players in the country when they got there. They were all going in the lottery even if they went to St Joe's or Temple. He didn't teach them anything.
If you are a big man, and you go to Kentucky, you better come into your Freshman season physically dominant to your peers or you aren't going to get any run, and you're not going to be developed any better than when you got there. A guy like Dakari Johnson, who was a better HS player than Joel Embiid, but had no real physical advantages over his peers gets sent to the bench and can't get into the league. While Kansas takes a Tarik Black or Cole Aldridge and makes them a 10 year NBA player.

I'm really at a loss here.

Players who draft stock was killed by Bill Self since Cal took over (247 5 stars only):

Cheick Diallo
Carlton Bragg
Cliff Alexander
Kelly Oubre
Wayne Selden
Josh Selby
Xavier Henry

Oubre is the only one of those on an NBA roster right now. I guarantee if you do the same with Calipari, it's not the same. You're not formulating an argument. You're stating your biases against Cal and using his successes in recruiting as a counter argument. Give me something more tangible other than "they learned all their post moves in high school and learn nothing in college". It's lazy and a bad argument.

[Kobblehead]

Cauley-Stein was a good success story for Cal.

Only came in as the 43rd ranked player nationally (6th ranked C). Pretty low recruit by Kentucky standards.

[LloydFree]

I don't know how you can confidently say this. You've evaluated all of the KU and UK post players from when they were in HS all the way through their freshman year and noted how their post game improved? Or are you taking one instance of Joel Embiid, who has stated that he watches something once, tries it out a few times, and masters it (the exception; not the norm) and base your argument completely on that?

Say what you want about Calipari's offense, but don't tell me Bill Self is developing post players better than Calipari. I've never seen a man squander more talent than Self.

Since Calipari has taken over at UK, let's compare first round picks of the two:

Calipari:

John Wall+
DeMarcus Cousins*
Patrick Patterson
Eric Bledsoe
Daniel Orton
Enes Kanter
Brandon Knight
Anthony Davis*
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Terrence Jones
Marquis Teague
Nerlens Noel
Archie Goodwin
Julius Randle
James Young
Karl-Anthony Towns
Willie Cauley-Stein
Trey Lyles
Devin Booker
Jamal Murray
Skal Labissière

Self:

Xavier Henry
Cole Aldrich
Markieff Morris
Marcus Morris
Ben McLemore
Andrew Wiggins
Joel Embiid
Kelly Oubre Jr.

* Denotes player who has been selected for at least one All-Star Game and All-NBA Team
+ Denotes player who has been selected for at least one All-Star Game


You can argue that Kentucky runs a rudimentary offensive system or that Cal's success is due to the talent he brings in; but I'll argue until I'm blue in the face that Calipari develops talent better than Self; a coach at an almost equal program, recruiting at the same level. Cal has produced all NBA players in his time at UK. Self has produced journeymen, a good scorer, and 3/4 of a year of (hopefully) an all star if he can stay healthy.

Oh please. Don't give me lists. I know the players. It's not hard to produce lottery picks when the players ( Rose, Wall, Cousins, Davis, Gilchrist, Noel, Randle and Towns were already the #1 or #2 players in the country when they got there. They were all going in the lottery even if they went to St Joe's or Temple. He didn't teach them anything.
If you are a big man, and you go to Kentucky, you better come into your Freshman season physically dominant to your peers or you aren't going to get any run, and you're not going to be developed any better than when you got there. A guy like Dakari Johnson, who was a better HS player than Joel Embiid, but had no real physical advantages over his peers gets sent to the bench and can't get into the league. While Kansas takes a Tarik Black or Cole Aldridge and makes them a 10 year NBA player.

I'm really at a loss here.

Players who draft stock was killed by Bill Self since Cal took over (247 5 stars only):

Cheick Diallo
Carlton Bragg
Cliff Alexander
Kelly Oubre
Wayne Selden
Josh Selby
Xavier Henry

Oubre is the only one of those on an NBA roster right now. I guarantee if you do the same with Calipari, it's not the same. You're not formulating an argument. You're stating your biases against Cal and using his successes in recruiting as a counter argument. Give me something more tangible other than "they learned all their post moves in high school and learn nothing in college". It's lazy and a bad argument.

I'm done talking about Kentucky. I'm not invested enough to keep arguing. If you think Calipari develops players, that's your opinion. I haven't seen him develop or make anybody better.

[Negrodamus]

Oh please. Don't give me lists. I know the players. It's not hard to produce lottery picks when the players ( Rose, Wall, Cousins, Davis, Gilchrist, Noel, Randle and Towns were already the #1 or #2 players in the country when they got there. They were all going in the lottery even if they went to St Joe's or Temple. He didn't teach them anything.
If you are a big man, and you go to Kentucky, you better come into your Freshman season physically dominant to your peers or you aren't going to get any run, and you're not going to be developed any better than when you got there. A guy like Dakari Johnson, who was a better HS player than Joel Embiid, but had no real physical advantages over his peers gets sent to the bench and can't get into the league. While Kansas takes a Tarik Black or Cole Aldridge and makes them a 10 year NBA player.

I'm really at a loss here.

Players who draft stock was killed by Bill Self since Cal took over (247 5 stars only):

Cheick Diallo
Carlton Bragg
Cliff Alexander
Kelly Oubre
Wayne Selden
Josh Selby
Xavier Henry

Oubre is the only one of those on an NBA roster right now. I guarantee if you do the same with Calipari, it's not the same. You're not formulating an argument. You're stating your biases against Cal and using his successes in recruiting as a counter argument. Give me something more tangible other than "they learned all their post moves in high school and learn nothing in college". It's lazy and a bad argument.

I done talking about Kentucky. I'm not invested enough to keep arguing. If you think Calipari develops players, that's your opinion. I haven't seen him develop or make anybody better.

I'm not even arguing that. I'm arguing that Bill Self is simply not better and there's literally no argument otherwise.

[6ersfolife]

This is a pick swap thread?

[Arsenal]

This is a pick swap thread?

Good night last night. SAC got smoked again, at home, against a bad team in MIN. They played over their heads for 1 game due to feeling relief that the dark cloud of Boogie Cousins was gone. Now they're going to find their real level, which is a terrible team. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they only win 2-3 games the rest of the year and finish bottom 4 or 5.

The pick swap will be in play. We might get as many ping pong balls from SAC as we have ourselves, roughly doubling our chances at a top 3 pick.

[eagereyez]

This is a pick swap thread?

Good night last night. SAC got smoked again, at home, against a bad team in MIN. They played over their heads for 1 game due to feeling relief that the dark cloud of Boogie Cousins was gone. Now they're going to find their real level, which is a terrible team. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they only win 2-3 games the rest of the year and finish bottom 4 or 5.

The pick swap will be in play. We might get as many ping pong balls from SAC as we have ourselves, roughly doubling our chances at a top 3 pick.

The overreactions when they won their first game after the Boogie trade were quite funny. They replaced a top 15-20 NBA player with a rookie who has been pretty awful so far. I agree that they should finish around 4th or 5th.