Welcome Okafor

[Ericb5]

I don't want people to misunderstand, I personally want to keep the big 4 front court rotation. I feel like that would be the type of depth we need to really compete. Having a real bench and starter combination would do wonders for us over the longterm. I don't mind us overpaying for the luxury of having a super defense offense frontcourt

If what you are referring to as the big 4 front court rotation is Saric, Noel, Okafor, and Embiid, then saying that you are in favor of that is a very pessimistic view of things overall because all 4 of those guys have ceilings of at least good quality starting players, and some have much more than that.

One of the reasons why I believe that at least one of them, if not two of them will need to be traded eventually, is precisely because I am so high on them. I believe that Noel is going to be a good starting center in this league for someone.

There are only three ways that he stays on the Sixers long term.

1. Embiid busts health wise and a spot opens up for Noel at the 5.
2. Noel is able to transition to a starting quality 4, and Okafor is traded.
3. Noel is not good enough, and stays as our back up 4/5, and probably Okafor is still traded.

I don't think any of those three things are likely to happen.

So I am decidedly on team Okafor in the comparison with Noel as a prospect, and especially Noel as a Sixer, but part of that opinion is just because I believe that Noel is too good of a player to NOT be a quality starter for someone.

He is likely to be worth more to the Sixers as a trade chip than as a player.

[76ciology]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/pjeffersonlim/status/695260047719292928[/tweet]

Against hawks

[Kobblehead]

It's pretty simple. Okafor has been one of the worst performers in the NBA this year. Noel has shown to be a high level performer for two years now. Anyone that would chose the former over the latter would be a terrible GM.

[HartfordWhalers]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/pjeffersonlim/status/695260047719292928[/tweet]

Against hawks

He was very active as a helper, closed out on Teague on a floater where normally he just shades to the hoop, then turns around late for the rebound without ever bodying someone. Thats a backhanded compliment and then some, but yeah, he was active as a helper in good ways.

[broseph13]

I don't understand why people think keeping Noel over Okafor is a great idea. Basically, you guys would prefer keeping a guy with virtually no upside over a guy with tons of upside, and I'm not sure why.

Hate to break it to you folks, but Noel probably won't getting any better than he is now...he just doesn't have the tools. Noel is simply an athlete, not a basketball player, and guys like that tend not to improve much throughout their career.

The notion that Noel has topped out and has no upside is one of the most insane things I've read on this board.

Sorry man, but Noel isn't a skilled player, hasn't really added anything to his game since being in the league, and doesn't strike me as a guy who eats/breaths/sleeps basketball to the point where he'll add things to his game each season moving forward. Sure, he's a good defender (and that's only as a rim protector waiting for guys to drive the lane and help defender, NOT as a lockdown/post defender), but other than that, he has virtually no other basketball skills. Can't shoot, can't dribble, lousy foul shooter, zero post moves, not all that "heady" of a player...basically worthless in a half-court offense unless he's setup perfectly by Ish or is right under the basket to turn "garbage into gold," as Zumoff says.

[76ciology]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/pjeffersonlim/status/695275877685276672[/tweet]

[76ciology]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/pjeffersonlim/status/695260047719292928[/tweet]

Against hawks

He was very active as a helper, closed out on Teague on a floater where normally he just shades to the hoop, then turns around late for the rebound without ever bodying someone. Thats a backhanded compliment and then some, but yeah, he was active as a helper in good ways.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/pjeffersonlim/status/695276398127161344[/tweet]

[phifans]

It's pretty simple. Okafor has been one of the worst performers in the NBA this year. Noel has shown to be a high level performer for two years now. Anyone that would chose the former over the latter would be a terrible GM.

No he's not ....
And Your hates on your favorate team's young rookie may be the worst performers as a fan I've ever seen before in my life.
And I like both Okafor and Noel whatever flows they have they are the best talent we have right now and I will always hope for the best for them. I can't believe some of you just called them out every time given a chance and try to claim one of them are bad player and will never improve. Im wondering what does that(keep calling Okafor for bad) benifit you actually ? Does that ( assuming Okafor are the worst player which is ridiculous) makes you happy ?
I seriously doubt that you have ever hoped Okafor being better or from the very beginning youre begging him to be a bust to show that you were right for not being a fan of him before the draft ?

[HartfordWhalers]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/pjeffersonlim/status/695260047719292928[/tweet]

Against hawks

He was very active as a helper, closed out on Teague on a floater where normally he just shades to the hoop, then turns around late for the rebound without ever bodying someone. Thats a backhanded compliment and then some, but yeah, he was active as a helper in good ways.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/pjeffersonlim/status/695276398127161344[/tweet]

That actually wasn't the one I was thinking of, it was off a pick and roll and Teague ended up barely hitting the front rim after Okafor stopped backpedalling and realized he needed to show and challenge the shot.

(The cynic in me would say Teague was shocked into missing so bad, but it is exactly the sort of play you need to see changing in the way it did).

[76ciology]

It's pretty simple. Okafor has been one of the worst performers in the NBA this year. Noel has shown to be a high level performer for two years now. Anyone that would chose the former over the latter would be a terrible GM.

No he's not ....
And Your hates on your favorate team's young rookie may be the worst performers as a fan I've ever seen before in my life.
And I like both Okafor and Noel whatever flows they have they are the best talent we have right now and I will always hope for the best for them. I can't believe some of you just called them out every time given a chance and try to claim one of them are bad player and will never improve. Im wondering what does that(keep calling Okafor for bad) benifit you actually ? Does that ( assuming Okafor are the worst player which is ridiculous) makes you happy ?
I seriously doubt that you have ever hoped Okafor being better or from the very beginning youre begging him to be a bust to show that you were right for not being a fan of him before the draft ?

Agree with Kobble. That's why there's a difference in opinion. If you look at present impact of Noel, he has already shown ability to provide atleast star caliber impact on the defensive end.

Betting on Jah is more of hoping in the future that he eventually stretches the floor on offense like a wing and provide footspeed to guard guys like Draymond Green and Gay. And right now in the scale of 1 to 10, Jah is probably at 3-4? Jah has long ways to go. Personally, I'm optimistic because I think he has the age,tools and the skillset to be that kind of player while he has shown some glimpse of it in his rookie year.

[Kobblehead]

No he's not ....
And Your hates on your favorate team's young rookie may be the worst performers as a fan I've ever seen before in my life.
And I like both Okafor and Noel whatever flows they have they are the best talent we have right now and I will always hope for the best for them. I can't believe some of you just called them out every time given a chance and try to claim one of them are bad player and will never improve. Im wondering what does that(keep calling Okafor for bad) benifit you actually ? Does that ( assuming Okafor are the worst player which is ridiculous) makes you happy ?
I seriously doubt that you have ever hoped Okafor being better or from the very beginning youre begging him to be a bust to show that you were right for not being a fan of him before the draft ?

5th worst VORP in the entire NBA. YES he is.

I don't root for Okafor to be bad. I just don't have time to wait for everyone else to catch up and come to the realizations that many of us came to already. He's fatally flawed. You can't win in this league with some possession draining, non-rebounding, non-rim protecting, defensive switch-exploitable mess of a player. And it's frustrating how many people threw the #teamanalytics fad (because for almost all of you, it was a fad) out the window almost immediately and started embracing this analytic nightmare that is Jahlil Okafor. It's like you guys don't want to have a contending team, you just want to be entertained by a 20 point scorer.

So spare me the accusations of being a hater. I'm among the most logical users on this board.

[Unbreakable99]

I don't understand why people think keeping Noel over Okafor is a great idea. Basically, you guys would prefer keeping a guy with virtually no upside over a guy with tons of upside, and I'm not sure why.

Hate to break it to you folks, but Noel probably won't getting any better than he is now...he just doesn't have the tools. Noel is simply an athlete, not a basketball player, and guys like that tend not to improve much throughout their career.

The notion that Noel has topped out and has no upside is one of the most insane things I've read on this board.

Sorry man, but Noel isn't a skilled player, hasn't really added anything to his game since being in the league, and doesn't strike me as a guy who eats/breaths/sleeps basketball to the point where he'll add things to his game each season moving forward. Sure, he's a good defender (and that's only as a rim protector waiting for guys to drive the lane and help defender, NOT as a lockdown/post defender), but other than that, he has virtually no other basketball skills. Can't shoot, can't dribble, lousy foul shooter, zero post moves, not all that "heady" of a player...basically worthless in a half-court offense unless he's setup perfectly by Ish or is right under the basket to turn "garbage into gold," as Zumoff says.

This is crazy talk. Noel can and has definitely improved. You do realize half of a basketball game is played on defense right? Not allowing the team to score or making them make tougher shots is vital. Also stealing the ball and taking away a possession is important and Noel gets steals. Basketball is a two way street for offense and defense.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

No he's not ....
And Your hates on your favorate team's young rookie may be the worst performers as a fan I've ever seen before in my life.
And I like both Okafor and Noel whatever flows they have they are the best talent we have right now and I will always hope for the best for them. I can't believe some of you just called them out every time given a chance and try to claim one of them are bad player and will never improve. Im wondering what does that(keep calling Okafor for bad) benifit you actually ? Does that ( assuming Okafor are the worst player which is ridiculous) makes you happy ?
I seriously doubt that you have ever hoped Okafor being better or from the very beginning youre begging him to be a bust to show that you were right for not being a fan of him before the draft ?

5th worst VORP in the entire NBA. YES he is.

I don't root for Okafor to be bad. I just don't have time to wait for everyone else to catch up and come to the realizations that many of us came to already. He's fatally flawed. You can't win in this league with some possession draining, non-rebounding, non-rim protecting, defensive switch-exploitable mess of a player. And it's frustrating how many people threw the #teamanalytics fad (because for almost all of you, it was a fad) out the window almost immediately and started embracing this analytic nightmare that is Jahlil Okafor. It's like you guys don't want to have a contending team, you just want to be entertained by a 20 point scorer.

So spare me the accusations of being a hater. I'm among the most logical users on this board.

Logical how? By using your dreaded VORP to determine that he sucks? Last year it was the all seeing PER that you used to stroke yourself with, however you can't do that with Okafor because his PER is above average. I trust PER way more than the other stuff. Stop being so arrogant, you don't know anything more than anyone else on here. Yoy have an agenda against Okafor, fine, but don't act like you know more than the rest of us.

[HartfordWhalers]

Not really a fan of PER.

[broseph13]

The notion that Noel has topped out and has no upside is one of the most insane things I've read on this board.

Sorry man, but Noel isn't a skilled player, hasn't really added anything to his game since being in the league, and doesn't strike me as a guy who eats/breaths/sleeps basketball to the point where he'll add things to his game each season moving forward. Sure, he's a good defender (and that's only as a rim protector waiting for guys to drive the lane and help defender, NOT as a lockdown/post defender), but other than that, he has virtually no other basketball skills. Can't shoot, can't dribble, lousy foul shooter, zero post moves, not all that "heady" of a player...basically worthless in a half-court offense unless he's setup perfectly by Ish or is right under the basket to turn "garbage into gold," as Zumoff says.

This is crazy talk. Noel can and has definitely improved. You do realize half of a basketball game is played on defense right? Not allowing the team to score or making them make tougher shots is vital. Also stealing the ball and taking away a possession is important and Noel gets steals. Basketball is a two way street for offense and defense.

1. Noel has definitely improved in what? He has less offensive talent than I do and still has yet to demonstrate any kind of real talent on the offensive end. No, an alley-oop or put-back is not demonstrating real talent on the offensive end. Still no handles, no jumper, no post moves...nothing.

2. Noel is only good defensively as a rim protector, NOT as a lockdown or post defender. He gets gambles often when defending a guy 1-on-1, goes for pump fakes all the time, fouls jump shooters, and gets pushed around in the paint. Therefore, while his defense is stellar in certain areas, in other areas it's not all that great.

3. I value guys who can score higher than guys who can play defense. Why? Because defense is probably the easiest basketball skill to drastically improve upon assuming one already has the size and being a good defender is more about will and determination more than anything else. On the other hand, offense is very difficult to improve upon and guys who can't shoot, can't dribble, have no moves, etc. after playing organized basketball for a long time are highly unlikely to all of a sudden develop such skills.

[Mik317]

yeah not the biggest Jah fan in the world but it is funny to see PER now be ignored despite using it to trash Wiggins last year and Giannis the year prior

[roma258]

Sorry man, but Noel isn't a skilled player, hasn't really added anything to his game since being in the league, and doesn't strike me as a guy who eats/breaths/sleeps basketball to the point where he'll add things to his game each season moving forward. Sure, he's a good defender (and that's only as a rim protector waiting for guys to drive the lane and help defender, NOT as a lockdown/post defender), but other than that, he has virtually no other basketball skills. Can't shoot, can't dribble, lousy foul shooter, zero post moves, not all that "heady" of a player...basically worthless in a half-court offense unless he's setup perfectly by Ish or is right under the basket to turn "garbage into gold," as Zumoff says.

This is crazy talk. Noel can and has definitely improved. You do realize half of a basketball game is played on defense right? Not allowing the team to score or making them make tougher shots is vital. Also stealing the ball and taking away a possession is important and Noel gets steals. Basketball is a two way street for offense and defense.

1. Noel has definitely improved in what? He has less offensive talent than I do and still has yet to demonstrate any kind of real talent on the offensive end. No, an alley-oop or put-back is not demonstrating real talent on the offensive end. Still no handles, no jumper, no post moves...nothing.

2. Noel is only good defensively as a rim protector, NOT as a lockdown or post defender. He gets gambles often when defending a guy 1-on-1, goes for pump fakes all the time, fouls jump shooters, and gets pushed around in the paint. Therefore, while his defense is stellar in certain areas, in other areas it's not all that great.

3. I value guys who can score higher than guys who can play defense. Why? Because defense is probably the easiest basketball skill to drastically improve upon assuming one already has the size and being a good defender is more about will and determination more than anything else. On the other hand, offense is very difficult to improve upon and guys who can't shoot, can't dribble, have no moves, etc. after playing organized basketball for a long time are highly unlikely to all of a sudden develop such skills.

I mean you're entitled to an opinion, but you're spouting jibberish. Since this has turned into a Noel vs Jah thread (I wish it wasn't but such is life), let's examine their numbers this season. Remember they're almost the same age:
http://bkref.com/tiny/2LhUP

By almost every statistical measure Noel is a better: rebound, shot blocker, overall defender, passer, efficient scorer and overall contributor. Okafor is a better, more natural scorer no question about.

But this notion that Noel can't improve on offense (he has, and will continue to) and that getting better of defense is the easiest thing to do in basketball, is insane. Noel is an elite defensive presence right now. Rim protectors are worth their weight in gold in the NBA. Guys who can hedge out on screens and have the speed to recover to their man are worth their weight in gold in the NBA. Hyper freak athletes who play hard and have natural defensive instincts are worth their weight in gold in the NBA. Oh and he's just fine on offense, somehow managing to score an efficient 11 point per game, while playing out of position and having an NBA point guard for half the season. Not bad for an offensive black hole.

[eagereyez]

http://www.libertyballers.com/2016/2/4/10896008/sixers-okafor-rebounding-bad

[ET Da Gawd]

I don't understand why people think keeping Noel over Okafor is a great idea. Basically, you guys would prefer keeping a guy with virtually no upside over a guy with tons of upside, and I'm not sure why.

Hate to break it to you folks, but Noel probably won't getting any better than he is now...he just doesn't have the tools. Noel is simply an athlete, not a basketball player, and guys like that tend not to improve much throughout their career.

The notion that Noel has topped out and has no upside is one of the most insane things I've read on this board.

Sorry man, but Noel isn't a skilled player, hasn't really added anything to his game since being in the league, and doesn't strike me as a guy who eats/breaths/sleeps basketball to the point where he'll add things to his game each season moving forward. Sure, he's a good defender (and that's only as a rim protector waiting for guys to drive the lane and help defender, NOT as a lockdown/post defender), but other than that, he has virtually no other basketball skills. Can't shoot, can't dribble, lousy foul shooter, zero post moves, not all that "heady" of a player...basically worthless in a half-court offense unless he's setup perfectly by Ish or is right under the basket to turn "garbage into gold," as Zumoff says.

exactly!!!!!!!

[ET Da Gawd]

its as if people expect bigs to be nothing more than airheads who can catch alleys and thats acceptable. Nerlens is not going to expand his game every year, at best he'll hit the 20ft consistently towards the end of his career. He is not a building block on a championship level team, he's a utility player. Okafor however has the skills to carry an offense, I'm literally wondering what is so difficult to see