***Sixerfan1976 Official Thread - Update Page 28***

[ZarcMumoff]

I guess if your dealing Iguodala for Cap Space / Aminu then Vucevic would be a solid pick seeing as he's the biggest guy you can possibly draft, and I'm not really a big Tyler fan, but I'd almost still rather have Hamilton over Aminu. I guess my bias against him at Wake Forest has transferred to the NBA.[/quote]

Even though word from Sixers brass has consistently been that is not their intention..what a bunch of a-holes. They are gonna make it seem like Kaman is an All-Star Center coming back in return and combined with Brand will help the Sixers compete with the Heat...ridiculous.[/quote]
What would you like them to do? Tell the fans that the market for Iggy was **** (Like It was for GWallace so this isn't shocking) so we traded him for salary relief? That will get the fans buying tickets!!

[ZarcMumoff]

Still not sure why we are going after Aminu. I mean I know he's only 20 (almost 21) and he has potential, but the draft sites and experts were saying worst case he's Thad Young and best case Josh Smith.

Has he shown the ability to be even close to Thad in the NBA yet? I just don't see it in him.

But again, spin doctors will say now the Sixers have the 2nd and 8th pick from last year, blah blah.

Here is out salary dump of a top 3 perimeter defender in the NBA, and we get back a 1 year rental of an oft-injured Center who, if healthy, will only help the Sixers stay OUT of the lottery and another 1st round loss. Oh, but we get a 20 year old who has shown nothing but bust potential, and he's gonna be a starter replacing Iggy!! Don't forget that 2nd round pick! lol...Sorry guys. I'm thinking negadelphian.

I like the deal because ultimately I want ET to get more minutes and Iggy to go away, plus the salary flexibility is a sign towards a rebuild. Which hopefully they continue, and not just try a "retool". But it isn't what I expected from an Iggy deal and the Sixers would still be lacking a scoring threat in the starting lineup, which frustrates me beyond belief.

See, that's the whole problem. People always think NOW NOW NOW. Who cares if we don't have a scoring threat...for y'all Monta Ellis...he's not going to make us a championship contender. So we maybe get to the 2nd Round, big ****. In every deal we do, it should be for getting closer to a championship. Getting cap relief is getting us closer. Seeing what our youth can do...is getting us closer. Monta Ellis (as you can see from my sig) isn't getting us closer.

Then again, I hate Monta more than any other person so maybe it's just me

[tk76]

Still can't see how adding Kaman is good for this team long term. Lets look at the range of possiblilities:

1. Kaman has a career year under collins. The team wins 46 games and has a competetive 1st round series. Then due to this "success" they re-sign a 30 year old Kaman to a 5 years deal.

2. Kaman is injury plagued and leaves as an expiring. The Sixers win 40 games. He is gone as a FA.

3. Kaman plays OK. Team wins 44 games. knocked out in 5-6 games. They eitehr resign Kaman or he walks.

...So how do any of thee scenarios actulally help the Sixers in 2-3 years when Brand is gone and Jrue/Turner are in their prime? The only thing Ic an imagine is if they flip Kaman at the deadline in part of a bigger deal. But Siince the Sxiers never trade away expirings, I'm not seeing that as likely.

So exactly how does adding Kaman help beyond next year? And if adding Kaman means they are less likely to address their big man future issues in the draft, doesn't that actually hurt them?

[76ciology]

the concern is scoring if iguodala goes but its not like he was a huge scorer anyway. we wont be a high scoring bunch but not necessarily worse than last year is the way that i look at it. still gonna need balance on a nightly basis

I know that Kaman might not be that efficient on offense, although he has good FG% and FT%, but he's a better scorer than Iguodala. So I don't think the problem is going to be at the offensive end. Like one article stated, atleast Kaman can command double team from time to time and gives us another dimension to our bleak offense, which is his post game.

[tk76]

The concept that Kaman demands a double team is not correct IMO. Maybe I'm wrong, but if teams do double him its to force a bad TO and not out of fear.

[Skates]

Kaman is an offensive upgrade from Hawes if he is healthy and buys a year of time for a guy like Vucavci to mature. It looks like the MLE is going to stay in the CBA and some scoring help could be added that way too.

The key would really be to package some young players plus Kaman and/or Noc at the deadline for a player of significance.

Brand also becomes an expiring contract next year. Somewhere in there we have to pull off a trade for a top shelf player who wants out of their city.

[LongLiveHinkie]

I have very little interest in Kaman. If we are going to deal Iguodala, I don't want anyone older than 26 unless they are really good. Ideally, I'd like someone who can score or with potential as a scorer.

We do need a big man, but I don't want to trade for an injury-plagued risky one just for the sake of need. Get one in the draft.

[76ciology]

Still can't see how adding Kaman is good for this team long term. Lets look at the range of possiblilities:

1. Kaman has a career year under collins. The team wins 46 games and has a competetive 1st round series. Then due to this "success" they re-sign a 30 year old Kaman to a 5 years deal.

2. Kaman is injury plagued and leaves as an expiring. The Sixers win 40 games. He is gone as a FA.

3. Kaman plays OK. Team wins 44 games. knocked out in 5-6 games. They eitehr resign Kaman or he walks.

...So how do any of thee scenarios actulally help the Sixers in 2-3 years when Brand is gone and Jrue/Turner are in their prime? The only thing Ic an imagine is if they flip Kaman at the deadline in part of a bigger deal. But Siince the Sxiers never trade away expirings, I'm not seeing that as likely.

So exactly how does adding Kaman help beyond next year? And if adding Kaman means they are less likely to address their big man future issues in the draft, doesn't that actually hurt them?

Scenario with Iguodala. 
- 1st round exit till 2013. After that when EB42's contract expire, we're left with a less promising squad that is in limbo between the lotto and the play-offs. 

Scenario with Ellis:
- See Iguodala scenario

Scenario with Kaman:
- compete for 2011-2012. Youth movement in 2012-2013, with Jrue-ET-Aminu-EB42-Donatas or Vucevic. Huge cap space in 2013. 
Advantage? No drop off in competitiveness next season. A brighter future with Aminu, potential lotto pick and capspace in 2013. But even without the lotto pick, say we made the playoffs with an improved Aminu and Vucevic/Donatas, the future is still a lot brighter with that cap space.

[76ciology]

BTW, I'm not sure with this. But won't we able to sign a Max player in 2012 with Nocioni and Kaman's contract expiring in 2012?

[ZarcMumoff]

Still can't see how adding Kaman is good for this team long term. Lets look at the range of possiblilities:

1. Kaman has a career year under collins. The team wins 46 games and has a competetive 1st round series. Then due to this "success" they re-sign a 30 year old Kaman to a 5 years deal.

2. Kaman is injury plagued and leaves as an expiring. The Sixers win 40 games. He is gone as a FA.

3. Kaman plays OK. Team wins 44 games. knocked out in 5-6 games. They eitehr resign Kaman or he walks.

...So how do any of thee scenarios actulally help the Sixers in 2-3 years when Brand is gone and Jrue/Turner are in their prime? The only thing Ic an imagine is if they flip Kaman at the deadline in part of a bigger deal. But Siince the Sxiers never trade away expirings, I'm not seeing that as likely.

So exactly how does adding Kaman help beyond next year? And if adding Kaman means they are less likely to address their big man future issues in the draft, doesn't that actually hurt them?

It opens up more cap room, which opens up not only Free Agency, but overall cap flexibility. It gives Jrue & Turner an actual chance to be the main focus of the team. It's much more than just what does Kaman do because his performance likely won't have any barring on our future...it's his 11 million $$$ off the books that will help us.

[76ciology]

So here's the scenario of the rumored Kaman, Aminu, picks for Iguodala + picks deal. I'm not familiar with the salary structure and rules, so correct me if I'm wrong.

2011-2012: Pretty much the same competitive squad.

PG: Jrue Holiday/Lou Williams
SG: Jodie Meeks/FA?
SF: ET/Aminu
PF: EB42/Thad Young/Montejunas
C: Chris Kaman/Spencer Hawes

2012-2013:We will have around $16-18,000,000 cap space. With a $58,000,000 Salary cap and only EB42, Jrue, ET, Rookie this 2011 draft and Lou Williams under contract.
- We extend Jrue and ET's contract. We let Kaman, Hawes, Brackins, Nocioni, and Young walk.

Line-up for 2012-2013.
PG: Jrue Holiday
SG: ET
SF: Aminu (hope he has improved by then)
PF: EB42
C: Max FA

or

Line-up for 2012-2013.
PG: Jrue Holiday
SG: ET
SF: Aminu (hope he has improved by then)
PF:Max FA
C: Vucevic or Donatas

2013-2014: I'm not sure but I think we will again have cap space with EB42's contract expiring and we just extend a QO for Jrue.

Line-up for 2013-2014.
PG: Jrue Holiday
SG: ET
SF: Aminu (hope he has improved by then)
PF: Max FA
C: Max FA

[ProcessDoctor]

I could see the Kaman trade as an attempt to clear space for this summer. The problem is, Dwight's the only potential target and there's no reason for him to leave Orlando to come here UNLESS Jrue/Turner light it up this season...and I mean REALLY light it up. If it is a move to target Dwight, I can't blame them for trying to acquire a superstar who can turn the franchise around.

[Lou_23]

2012-2013:We will have around $20,000,000 cap space. With a $58,000,000 Salary cap and only EB42, Jrue, ET, Rookie this 2011 draft and[b] Lou Williams under contract.[/b]

And Lou can be FA if he wants

[freshie2]

I don't think you are getting any young big men except for Biedrens, who has been a 10/10 player in the league. So you have Ellis/Biedrens (exciting scorer + questionable/expensive big), Kaman/Aminu (productive big on last year of deal + questionable swing player) or Minny's fodder +#20 (bench players at multiple positions that may be individual trade pieces) as deals that appear to have some legs. Are any of those worth pulling the trigger?? Depending on the specific players for Minny, I'd seriously consider each, and think there is some value to the big men you get in return in each case...you aren't getting a superstar in return, so you have to make the pieces work within the existing roster. You may get a starter or two in the GWS/LAC trades, and at minimum rotation players in all three...that's not too bad.

[51X3RF4N]

D12 will never play a single game as a Sixer. Let's all understand that now. It won't happen.

PK, I want the Sixers brass to not insult the fan base's intelligence by thinking we won't see this move for what it is, a salary dump.

I want them to not say one thing repeatedly and then do the exact opposite, while thinking the fans won't notice.

If you are gonna salary dump Iggy, then SAY you are doing it for the salary relief next season in an effort to rebuild while Miami goes on it's run.

Don't say we are competing and making the team better so that we have a better shot at a championship, cuz that's bull.

[PH1LLYSFINEST13]

Thx for the updates as usual SF.

I hope the LAC deal is Kaman/Aminu/#37 for Iggy/Speights without #50 or Warren. I'm not interested in Willie Green 2.0.

Although I will say I think the Sixers NEED a scorer at the SG/SF spot and not one from the 2nd round of this draft.

Jrue
ET
Aminu

Just doesn't cut it offensively. Even adding Thad in there isn't enough IMO. Vucevic is nice and IMO could be a guy that gets 18-20ppg from the PF spot. Others will disagree, but I think he has the skills and jump shot, with the right amount of touches he could light it up. But I want to see that wing with deadly scoring instinct. And I'd package Lou/Aminu/#37/#50 to try and move up or get a current player.

Jrue/Turner
ET/Meeks
Scorer/Thad
Brand/Vucevic
Kaman/Hawes

That's not half bad, when Kaman is gone, you draft a Center to replace him, preferably a defensive minded one. When Brand is gone, Vucevic takes over full time in a scoring PF role. And you have a TON of minutes for Jrue/ET now and you can see if they got it or not.

We have Lou Will still. Not that he is a starter , but he is def points off the bench. I agree , we still need a 2/3 , but he doesnt have to be a great scorer IMO, a lil defense and a jumper or a 3 would be a good fit

[766776]

I could see sixers trading for Kaman,but i wonder if there is a third team.
It helps the team to build around Jrue and Evan(of cuz there are lou and thad on bench),after Kaman expires and Brand gets traded as an expiring next year.
Also,a downgrade will be unavoidable in order to give young players more chances on court.
On the other hand,in 2012 draft swingman with tons of potential like Barnes, Thomas, Gilchrist and two Jones are available,so i doubt if there is any team showing such strong interest in iggy if he's not traded this year.

[tk76]

Thanks for the responses regarding a Kaman trade.

Your cap argument makes sense in terms of why the team wants to trade Iguodala. But I still don't see why Kaman should be the target. As I've said before- I'd rather have nothing than Kaman (say a trade exception from Cleveland + picks or young players or VC to buy out or some deal with Minny.) Actually spending value for Kaman makes zero sense for this team and risks them re-signing him or putting off other front-court additions.

And the Sixers having Kaman-Hawes-Vucevic next year is almost comical. I could care less what race they are. But their plodding games with teh Sxiers previously up-tempo style is terrible. If I was Jrue I'd want out.

[sixerswillrule]

Your cap argument makes sense in terms of why the team wants to trade Iguodala. But I still don't see why Kaman should be the target. As I've said before- I'd rather have nothing than Kaman (say a trade exception from Cleveland + picks or young players or VC to buy out or some deal with Minny.) Actually spending value for Kaman makes zero sense for this team and risks them re-signing him or putting off other front-court additions.

Exactly! This team won't be going anywhere anyway. If part of the equation in an Iguodala trade is salary relief, then that should come from a meaningless player with little to no on-court value, rather than Kaman who provides something but won't be here past next season anyway. Insignificant player with big expiring contract + best young player and/or pick possible. Forget the stop-gap Kaman.

[sixerswillrule]

And yeah, two of Hawes/Vucevic/Kaman on the floor together is laughable.