Optimism for Embiid's Health

[MRxBLACK]

I feel like you're only looking for the information that supports what you wanna hear, and that's a dangerous way to think.

Sometimes it isn't about a chronic injury with big men, but about just being injury prone in general. This is what happened with Bogut. If it wasn't his hideous arm injury, it was his back. If it wasn't his back, it was his foot. If it wasn't his foot it was his ankle. That's what I fear with Embiid, not a degenerative condition. The good thing is, I don't think he'll be taken out of the game like Oden and Bowie was. Hopefully you're right and these are just freak injuries but that doesn't translate to healthy career.

And you're only looking for information that makes you feel better about your team taking Parker.

[Kobblehead]

I feel like you're only looking for the information that supports what you wanna hear, and that's a dangerous way to think.

Sometimes it isn't about a chronic injury with big men, but about just being injury prone in general. This is what happened with Bogut. If it wasn't his hideous arm injury, it was his back. If it wasn't his back, it was his foot. If it wasn't his foot it was his ankle. That's what I fear with Embiid, not a degenerative condition. The good thing is, I don't think he'll be taken out of the game like Oden and Bowie was. Hopefully you're right and these are just freak injuries but that doesn't translate to healthy career.

Everything you said is true and is definitely the elephant in the room that alot of us choose to ignore.

However, the reason for optimism in Embiid's case is that he's going to have an entire calender year (and then some) to fully-recover his body. I expect the Sixers to emphasize preventative measures to Embiid like nutrition, proper strengthening exercises, etc.

Embiid is with a patient organization with an experience rehabilitation staff. Alot of the injury-prone players in the league get that way because they never fully recover from their initial ailment. Embiid is fortunate enough to be able to.

[eyeatoma]

I wrote this in another thread, but think it's work mentioning here...

As much as I get the reasoning to shut Embiid the whole year I don't think he should sit the whole season. His injury isn't nearly as serious as Noel's was. He should play by January max is he's healthy. Yes next year's draft could get us a high lotto pick but the majority of players are big men. We don't need another one and imo Embiid is better than Okafor. Embiid needs experience to get better. It will also help us know if his body can hold up through a grueling season at the very least 40-50 games to start with. Unless there's an sg or sf who is worth a top 5 pick I say we play him for most of the season. If his body does break down if he starts playing, say in January or February, then we know that it might be much more serious, and we can be optimistic about finding a replacement big man during the 15-16 draft...

[deep6er]

I like the optimism and it seems that the odds are in our favor, but even if doctors were all enthusiastic about his recovery, there's always a percentage of 'you never know' when it comes to big men and injuries, and it's important to recognize that. There's a risk here that we're all gonna have to sit with and live with for the next couple of years and if Embiid ends up hobbled by injuries for most of his career, I know a lot of you all are gonna be shouting "We should have known! We should have looked more closely at the medical reports, examined him more closely." BUt the truth is that you can't tell the future. We took a calculated risk which I think gives really good odds on the payout and whenever you make a play like that you have to feel good about it, because even if it doesn't pan out, if you consistently are making bets with the odds in your favor, you're gonna be the one who beats the house.

[Kobblehead]

I wrote this in another thread, but think it's work mentioning here...

As much as I get the reasoning to shut Embiid the whole year I don't think he should sit the whole season. His injury isn't nearly as serious as Noel's was. He should play by January max is he's healthy. Yes next year's draft could get us a high lotto pick but the majority of players are big men. We don't need another one and imo Embiid is better than Okafor. Embiid needs experience to get better. It will also help us know if his body can hold up through a grueling season at the very least 40-50 games to start with. Unless there's an sg or sf who is worth a top 5 pick I say we play him for most of the season. If his body does break down if he starts playing, say in January or February, then we know that it might be much more serious, and we can be optimistic about finding a replacement big man during the 15-16 draft...

You run the risk of an overcompensation injury.

[joefrizzle]

I am really nervous about Embiid, but very excited at the same time. I get the feeling there is no middle ground here. I think he'll either have an atrocious, injury plagued career, or be a dominant center(eventually top 3)

[MiltownHawkeye]

I feel like you're only looking for the information that supports what you wanna hear, and that's a dangerous way to think.

Sometimes it isn't about a chronic injury with big men, but about just being injury prone in general. This is what happened with Bogut. If it wasn't his hideous arm injury, it was his back. If it wasn't his back, it was his foot. If it wasn't his foot it was his ankle. That's what I fear with Embiid, not a degenerative condition. The good thing is, I don't think he'll be taken out of the game like Oden and Bowie was. Hopefully you're right and these are just freak injuries but that doesn't translate to healthy career.

And you're only looking for information that makes you feel better about your team taking Parker.

No need to get combative, every team in the top 3 got what they wanted.

[joefrizzle]

I feel like you're only looking for the information that supports what you wanna hear, and that's a dangerous way to think.

Sometimes it isn't about a chronic injury with big men, but about just being injury prone in general. This is what happened with Bogut. If it wasn't his hideous arm injury, it was his back. If it wasn't his back, it was his foot. If it wasn't his foot it was his ankle. That's what I fear with Embiid, not a degenerative condition. The good thing is, I don't think he'll be taken out of the game like Oden and Bowie was. Hopefully you're right and these are just freak injuries but that doesn't translate to healthy career.

And you're only looking for information that makes you feel better about your team taking Parker.

No need to get combative, every team in the top 3 got what they wanted.

What? We got Wiggins?

[bedjawII]

I'm a 100% sure we won't see Embiid play this year there's no reason he should.Hinkie and the staff did there homework talked to the best doctors and felt good about it. If you have the chance to draft the best player who has 85% chance of recovering from his injury you go for it. I expect the staff to be EXTRA careful because he's a big man and you don't want him to re injure his self.

Take it from a guy who knows rehab...unfortunately. Once he is healed resting him doesn't lessen the likeliness of him reinjuring it. Except the fact that he isn't playing, but he's got to play sometime. And if he is healed in December then he is just as likely to injure himself in Jan as he is next October. I expect the staff to be conservative also but this isn't the same situation as Noel. I mean it's not like Yao could have just sat out longer and eventually played. The injury is what it is.

[SixerFever215]

I'm a 100% sure we won't see Embiid play this year there's no reason he should.Hinkie and the staff did there homework talked to the best doctors and felt good about it. If you have the chance to draft the best player who has 85% chance of recovering from his injury you go for it. I expect the staff to be EXTRA careful because he's a big man and you don't want him to re injure his self.

Take it from a guy who knows rehab...unfortunately. Once he is healed resting him doesn't lessen the likeliness of him reinjuring it. Except the fact that he isn't playing, but he's got to play sometime. And if he is healed in December then he is just as likely to injure himself in Jan as he is next October. I expect the staff to be conservative also but this isn't the same situation as Noel. I mean it's not like Yao could have just sat out longer and eventually played. The injury is what it is.

Im just saying let him heal and do rehab 85% recovery rate I'm taking my chances with that.

[bebopdeluxe]

And you're only looking for information that makes you feel better about your team taking Parker.

No need to get combative, every team in the top 3 got what they wanted.

What? We got Wiggins?

How did you interpret Hinkie saying at the press conference that he IMMEDIATELY view the information about Embiid's injury as an opportunity?

1) "Oh, crap - that means that Wiggins won't fall to us..."

or

2) "Wow...this might mean that Embiid will fall to 3 - and we can get him..."

If the answer to this is 2 (duh), how does that square with your assertion that Wiggins was the guy that Hinkie wanted the most?

Looking forward to your answer. Thanks.

[joefrizzle]

No need to get combative, every team in the top 3 got what they wanted.

What? We got Wiggins?

How did you interpret Hinkie saying at the press conference that he IMMEDIATELY view the information about Embiid's injury as an opportunity?

1) "Oh, crap - that means that Wiggins won't fall to us..."

or

2) "Wow...this might mean that Embiid will fall to 3 - and we can get him..."

If the answer to this is 2 (duh), how does that square with your assertion that Wiggins was the guy that Hinkie wanted the most?

Looking forward to your answer. Thanks.

Oh come on, of course hes gonna say that. No, he'll say we wanted to trade up for Wiggins but couldnt, but Joel is ok too I guess lol... Are you serious?

[bebopdeluxe]

What? We got Wiggins?

How did you interpret Hinkie saying at the press conference that he IMMEDIATELY view the information about Embiid's injury as an opportunity?

1) "Oh, crap - that means that Wiggins won't fall to us..."

or

2) "Wow...this might mean that Embiid will fall to 3 - and we can get him..."

If the answer to this is 2 (duh), how does that square with your assertion that Wiggins was the guy that Hinkie wanted the most?

Looking forward to your answer. Thanks.

Oh come on, of course hes gonna say that. No, he'll say we wanted to trade up for Wiggins but couldnt, but Joel is ok too I guess lol... Are you serious?

Did you see the tweet from Woj right after the draft was done...which basically confirmed that the Sixers had basically ZERO action with Cleveland about trading up? And all of those rumors/tweets about the Sixers offering 3, 10, 32...my first-born son...Hinkie's left testicle...it was all GARBAGE. All floated out there presumably by Cleveland in a desperate attempt to gin up a market for the #1 pick that WAS NOT THERE.

Why is that?

Because Hinkie viewed Embiid's injury as an opportunity...and once he got comfortable with the medicals, Embiid was his guy.

Why don't you get this?

This ties into the p!ssing match you are having with Kobble. I am laying out for you my rational position - supported by CONCRETE FACTS (like Woj's post-draft tweet) that certainly seems to suggest hat Embiid - and NOT Wiggins - was Hinkie's guy.

If you believe this is not true, then lay out and defend your position...with LOGiC and FACTS.

Thanks.

[joefrizzle]

How did you interpret Hinkie saying at the press conference that he IMMEDIATELY view the information about Embiid's injury as an opportunity?

1) "Oh, crap - that means that Wiggins won't fall to us..."

or

2) "Wow...this might mean that Embiid will fall to 3 - and we can get him..."

If the answer to this is 2 (duh), how does that square with your assertion that Wiggins was the guy that Hinkie wanted the most?

Looking forward to your answer. Thanks.

Oh come on, of course hes gonna say that. No, he'll say we wanted to trade up for Wiggins but couldnt, but Joel is ok too I guess lol... Are you serious?

Did you see the tweet from Woj right after the draft was done...which basically confirmed that the Sixers had basically ZERO action with Cleveland about trading up? And all of those rumors/tweets about the Sixers offering 3, 10, 32...my first-born son...Hinkie's left testicle...it was all GARBAGE. All floated out there presumably by Cleveland in a desperate attempt to gin up a market for the #1 pick that WAS NOT THERE.

Why is that?

Because Hinkie viewed Embiid's injury as an opportunity...and once he got comfortable with the medicals, Embiid was his guy.

Why don't you get this?

This ties into the p!ssing match you are having with Kobble. I am laying out for you my rational position - supported by CONCRETE FACTS (like Woj's post-draft tweet) that certainly seems to suggest hat Embiid - and NOT Wiggins - was Hinkie's guy.

If you believe this is not true, then lay out and defend your position...with LOGiC and FACTS.

Thanks.

Ok, but there were other reports (multiple in fact) that we were indeed talking to cleveland about the 1st pick. Was that to make sure we acquire Embiid?

Neither one of us know the truth really, but whether Hinkie tried moving up or not, he still would have said Embiid was his guy, of course. Come on man, think about it, what else would he say

[snoopdogg88]

lol why is Woj's tweet's taken as concrete fact, whereas the millions of other reports and "tweets" all year indicated the Sixers were very interested in Wiggins

coincidently, it's only the night of the draft, after we draft Embiid do we hear this new "Sixers never actually wanted Wiggins" nonsense


you guys only hear what you want to hear. because it makes you feel better about Embiid. So be it

[deep6er]

What's worse is that you'll never know the truth. Ok maybe in a 30 for 30 documentary 20 years from now, Hinkie might lay it out, but until then let's all revel in our ignorance.

[76thBearCub]

No such thing as concrete facts reported by the media, especially in regards to things like this.

[Cokeleaf]

Personally I see Sam Hinkie liking both Wiggins and Embiid. He would have made contact with the Cavaliers about the top pick but found out the asking price was ridiculously high and gave up. Knowing that the top pick and potentially getting Wiggins was not worth losing so many assets. So in the end they played conservative and took Embiid with the pick we had.

As everyone above says, it is nearly impossible to know the complete truth unless you are best friends with Sam Hinkie

[Arsenal]

Cavs GM David Griffin said immediately after the draft that there were no substantive offers for the #1 pick.

Woj, the NBA reporter with the most credibility said the Sixers never made a substantive offer for the #1 pick.

Hinkie is widely known to be an analytics guy, and almost all of his picks have had great analytics numbers (e.g. Reb/40, Stl/40, Ast/40, Blk/40, A/TO, etc.), while Wiggins had mediocre at best analytics numbers. Embiid on the other hand had great analytics numbers.

Hinkie described the Embiid injury as "I smelled opportunity".

It seems pretty clear the Sixers were never all that interested in Wiggins. All the reports beforehand were a desperate attempt by Cleveland to drum up a trade market, which ended up being non-existent.

[bebopdeluxe]

lol why is Woj's tweet's taken as concrete fact, whereas the millions of other reports and "tweets" all year indicated the Sixers were very interested in Wiggins

coincidently, it's only the night of the draft, after we draft Embiid do we hear this new "Sixers never actually wanted Wiggins" nonsense


you guys only hear what you want to hear. because it makes you feel better about Embiid. So be it

I think that Woj is as reliable a NBA source as there is. And to me, him coming out after the draft is over and saying, based on his sources, that in fact the Sixers were never making much of a play for 1 in the first place IS a big story...and I haven't seen anyone refuting that tweet - have you?

And nice hyperbole with the "Sixers never actually wanted Wiggins anyway" crap. I am sure that they had a great deal of interest in him. I am sure that, until Adam Silver actually said, "with the 1st pick in the 2014 NBA Draft, the Cleveland Cavaliers select Andrew Wiggins", Sam Hinkie was VERY open to taking Wiggins if he was on the board at 3. It would not have surprised me - or Hinkie, I bet - if the Cavs would have gone ahead and taken Embiid anyway. The point is that, before the injury was revealed, Hinkie WAS focused on Wiggins...because he assumed - like everyone else - that Embiid would be gone at 1.

Right?